EPTThat is an awesome list of players!
[TSL] Terran Invites - Page 24
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Warning: It is HIGHLY recommended that you read the full OP and explanation post (below it). Uninformed opinions/questions that have already been answered will result in moderator action. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3571 Posts
That is an awesome list of players! | ||
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UFO
582 Posts
On February 21 2011 06:20 WGT-Baal wrote: Seeing Boxer and Nada in a TSL is paramount! That is an awesome list of players! No, this list is not awesome. Mvp, Jinro, Nada, Boxer part is awesome about this list of players. The rest is the exact opposite of awesome. The rest is a result of choosing a player for assets other than his skill and I don`t think this has anything to do with awesome. P.S I read the OP. | ||
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Smiley.
Canada13 Posts
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Lucidx
United States122 Posts
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
On February 21 2011 05:14 UFO wrote: MarineKingPrime. I understand that there are reasons why he isn`t invited but I don`t like this reason. I respect your decision, since its your tournament and you certainly chose what you thought was best. However, I will point out that Loner has no fucking right to be there if we are taking raw skill into account and nothing else. Loner`s invitation has little to do with his skill. Almost all of the Code S terrans are better than him, as well as many Code A terrans. Basicly the only way to explain this invitation is to realize that Loner is from China. This is not bad of an achievement but in comparision to a player like MarineKingPrime its pitiful, pathetic, to the degree of not even being worth mentioning. I said that I respect your choice but I will repeat - I don`t like it. I agree with you to a certain degree. I do think it's about business. It would be hard (and silly) for TL to say something like '' Although MKP is a more accomplished and skilled player than Loner or Genius, we simply cannot invite him due to some business reasons...'' It's fine and I respect the decision. But I really hope TL can admit this. | ||
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kelz
United States5 Posts
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
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UFO
582 Posts
Seeing Boxer and Nada in a TSL is paramount! That is an awesome list of players![/quote[ Mvp, Jinro, Nada, Boxer part is awesome about this list of players. The rest is the exact opposite of awesome. The rest is a result of choosing a player for assets other than his skill and I don`t think this has anything to do with awesome. On February 21 2011 02:39 mitthrawn wrote: Also please understand the timing of the invites, these were organised and coordinated in early January since for tournaments like the TSL to be successful, you get on top of your invites early otherwise things turn into an organisational mess. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. What kind of a sick fucking reason is this ? You didn`t know that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance ? So what of it ? Even if he dropped out of Code S instead of making it to the finals - his achievements are still incomparably better to that of Loner`s, as well is his skills. Also, MKP isn`t the only terran player who is better and more acomplished than Loner. What ? There are many Code S and even Code A terran players who have better acomplishments and skills than Loner. -Rainbow -TSL.Rain -oGsEnsnare -TSL.Clide -MakaPrime.WE You can add quite a few more players to this list, for example oGsTop but 5 players of this caliber are more than enough to prove the point. Well, I don`t blame you for doing this, though. Its reasonable, you want a representative from China for obvious reasons. You are awesome for making this tournament anyways and you have the right to choose receivers of your invitations as you like. What I`m against is this effrontery dishonesty about the reasons behind your invitation to Loner. [qupte]We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ? You are implying that the reason you didn`t invite MKP is his skills and achievements. Obviously this is a complete dishonesty. I mean, are you saying that Loner has better achievements and skills that MKP ? MKP reached GSL Finals and qualified for Code S. Loner`s achievements look painfully pitiful in comparision to that. MKP didn`t need to make a second finals appearance, hell he could drop out of Code S and still he would remain vastly superior to Loner, as a Starcraft 2 player. You would be better off not giving any explantation for choosing Loner than writing one as dishonest and insolent as this. P.S I don`t mean to disrespect TL in any way or try to discredit TL. Nonetheless, I think this is a shortcoming that needs to be pointed out, there is no reason for being dishonest like that. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On February 21 2011 07:41 UFO wrote: What I`m against is this effrontery dishonesty about the reasons behind your invitation to Loner. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ? How does that justify not inviting MKP ? He reached GSL Finals and qualified for Code S. Loner`s achievements look painfully pitiful in comparision to that. MKP didn`t need to make a second finals appearance, hell he could drop out of Code S and still he would remain vastly superior to Loner, as a Starcraft 2 player. You would be better off not giving any explantation for choosing Loner than writing one as dishonest and insolent as this. P.S I don`t mean to disrespect TL in any way or try to discredit TL. Nonetheless, I think this is a shortcoming that needs to be pointed out. I don't see how we were dishonest at all. We stated our reasons for Loner and why we didn't invite MKP. I don't think at any point did we say that Loner was better or more accomplished than MKP. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 21 2011 07:12 bearhug wrote: Our decision was not motivated by business, rather fairness. Our decision to ban all of asia from the TSL qualifiers meant that a number of legitimately good players were now excluded from the TSL. xioat, macseed, loner etc were all denied the opportunity to compete in a tournament whose premise was to bring the international scene together in a single tournament. Taiwan was also excluded, but Sen was seeded from last season so served as a representative of that region. China, however, would remain unrepresented unless we invited someone. We looked at the achievements of the chinese players and decided that Loner would be the best representative from that region. We know there is a talent skew towards Korea, that's why there are so many Korean invites. But we still felt it was important to give representation to those communities we excluded - just the same as we did for Liquid` and Idra. I agree with you to a certain degree. I do think it's about business. It would be hard (and silly) for TL to say something like '' Although MKP is a more accomplished and skilled player than Loner or Genius, we simply cannot invite him due to some business reasons...'' It's fine and I respect the decision. But I really hope TL can admit this. Further, the claims that MKP should have been invited anyway because of his results is nonsense. In January there were at least three candidates ahead of him, based purely off of results. There was MVP (winner of Gainward), Kyrix (winner of the all star invitational) and Rainbow (more consistent than MKP). After seeing how Rainbow had performed in successive seasons (from S1 to S2 to S3) we didn't feel that inviting someone based off a second place and a round of 8 finish was qualified enough. Obviously MKP went on to make a second final and that's great for him, but we can't turn back the clock and go through the invite discussion process again - nor could we retract the invites if we changed our minds. At the end of the day MKP is only a contentious issue because he made a second final. If he had dipped out in the Ro8 or maybe the Ro4 there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage. I hope this helps you understand our decision, even if you don't like it. After all, we're all fans here - we all want to see the best tournament possible. We wouldn't have invited these players if we didn't think that they would give us an amazing tournament. | ||
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UFO
582 Posts
On February 21 2011 07:47 Hot_Bid wrote: I don't see how we were dishonest at all. We stated our reasons for Loner and why we didn't invite MKP. I don't think at any point did we say that Loner was better or more accomplished than MKP. nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. This statement says that if you knew MKP would make 2nd finals appearance, you would invite him. In other words, you are saying that you were considering player`s achievements when choosing who will receive invitation. Here you are dishonest because,obviously, you did not consider player`s achievements when you decided to give invitation to Loner instead of MKP. | ||
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UFO
582 Posts
On February 21 2011 07:51 Plexa wrote: Our decision was not motivated by business, rather fairness. Our decision to ban all of asia from the TSL qualifiers meant that a number of legitimately good players were now excluded from the TSL. xioat, macseed, loner etc were all denied the opportunity to compete in a tournament whose premise was to bring the international scene together in a single tournament. Taiwan was also excluded, but Sen was seeded from last season so served as a representative of that region. China, however, would remain unrepresented unless we invited someone. We looked at the achievements of the chinese players and decided that Loner would be the best representative from that region. We know there is a talent skew towards Korea, that's why there are so many Korean invites. But we still felt it was important to give representation to those communities we excluded - just the same as we did for Liquid` and Idra. Further, the claims that MKP should have been invited anyway because of his results is nonsense. In January there were at least three candidates ahead of him, based purely off of results. There was MVP (winner of Gainward), Kyrix (winner of the all star invitational) and Rainbow (more consistent than MKP). After seeing how Rainbow had performed in successive seasons (from S1 to S2 to S3) we didn't feel that inviting someone based off a second place and a round of 8 finish was qualified enough. Obviously MKP went on to make a second final and that's great for him, but we can't turn back the clock and go through the invite discussion process again - nor could we retract the invites if we changed our minds. At the end of the day MKP is only a contentious issue because he made a second final. If he had dipped out in the Ro8 or maybe the Ro4 there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage. I hope this helps you understand our decision, even if you don't like it. After all, we're all fans here - we all want to see the best tournament possible. We wouldn't have invited these players if we didn't think that they would give us an amazing tournament. This isn`t fairness, these are reasons related to making this tournament world-wide, instead of Korean-wide. If this was fairness, you would invite almost only Koreans, with an exception of Idra and Jinro. No other foreigner deserves a spot for his achievements because they are all vastly inferior to the achievements of Korean players. This is what you are dishonest about. After seeing how Rainbow had performed in successive seasons (from S1 to S2 to S3) we didn't feel that inviting someone based off a second place and a round of 8 finish was qualified enough. Well, thats still far better than Loner`s results. So don`t say that you invited Loner because of his skills. His skills have NOTHING to do with his invitation. Had he been a Korean, there is no way he would get an invitation. P.S I`m sorry. I don`t know why I suddenly became so obsessed with accusing someone of dishonesty. I sincerely think you are a little bit dishonest about Loner`s invitation but I don`t why I try so hard to prove it, as it doesn`t matter anyways and its not like it ruins the tournament. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 21 2011 07:57 UFO wrote: What we're saying is that during the decision making process we didn't have all the information that we do now. A player who has made two finals obviously makes a significantly stronger case than a player who has made one. Loner still probably would have been invited anyway, but maybe one of our other Korean invites would have been different; it's impossible to say because that discussion never took place. This statement says that if you knew MKP would make 2nd finals appearance, you would invite him. In other words, you are saying that you were considering player`s achievements when choosing who will receive invitation. Here you are dishonest because,obviously, you did not consider player`s achievements when you decided to give invitation to Loner instead of MKP. Let me make it very clear. This isn't about MKP over Loner at all. Loner was always going to be invited (or rather, a representative from China). This is about MKP over the other Korean invites. If this was fairness, you would invite almost only Koreans, with an exception of Idra and Jinro. No other foreigner deserves a spot for his achievements because they are all vastly inferior to the achievements of Korean players. We removed their ability to qualify after they sacrificed everything to pursue their dream of being the best they can be. How is that fair? | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27179 Posts
China was getting a player NO MATTER WHAT. MKP, COMPARED TO OTHER KOREANS was not in the mix. If you aren't going to take the time to read and understand what has been written 50 times in this thread then go away. | ||
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UFO
582 Posts
On February 21 2011 08:08 Manifesto7 wrote: UFO, Nobody is being dishonest. Shut up. You seem to be unable to understand something simple. China was getting a player NO MATTER WHAT. MKP, COMPARED TO OTHER KOREANS was not in the mix. If you aren't going to take the time to read and understand what has been written 50 times in this thread, then go away. No need to get mad, dear moderator. China was getting a player NO MATTER WHAT. That is not the impression that the explantation in the OP leaves , the impression is "Loner was chosen due to his skill". I know China was getting a player no matter what and my point is that you aren`t direct about that. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27179 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On February 21 2011 07:57 UFO wrote: This statement says that if you knew MKP would make 2nd finals appearance, you would invite him. In other words, you are saying that you were considering player`s achievements when choosing who will receive invitation. Here you are dishonest because,obviously, you did not consider player`s achievements when you decided to give invitation to Loner instead of MKP. Reading comprehension bro. I personally thought Plexa's explanation was already pretty darn clear and I only skimmed it. Nowhere did they ever say that Loner>MKP. The number one reason why they chose Loner is because China needs a representative in the TSL3 and Loner is the best player from China. A player from China was going to be invited to TSL3 no matter what out of fairness for the lack of qualifiers in Asia. It just so happened that at that moment, Loner was the best player from China. The only reason why MKP wasn't invited was because he's outmatched by the other Korean players in consideration. The justification of the invitation of Loner and the lack of an invitation for MKP are independent events which have absolutely nothing to do with each other. | ||
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kvn4444
1510 Posts
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Char711
United States862 Posts
I think pretty much all of these players deserve to be in TSL3 on skill alone, so it's hard for me to choose a favorite invite based on that and on the fact that I'm a pretty big fan of a lot of those players (other than Genius, who, to be frank, I really dislike because of his appallingly bad manner). However, if I had to choose one, I'd say BoxeR. Why? Well, some people seem to be writing him off a bit since, if I recall correctly, NaDa has been slightly outperforming him in the GSL. Even ignoring his illustrious history (and the first episode of BoxeR's Wings that made me love him all the more), BoxeR is a great invite to help meld BW and SC2 along with encouraging more long-term eSports careers because of how old he is. His skill alone could get him in TSL3, but he just adds so much to the package that he has to be there. I say this partly because, as someone who didn't really follow the pro scene while I dabbled in BW, I didn't experience the epicness of BW eSport. I watched the first two matches of the MSL final on Friday and finally got a sense of how amazing it was. Even never having watched and not really knowing who the guys playing were, I got the same feeling as watching a "normal" sport with how established it was and how much fanfare there was around that. I want that in SC2. I want to experience that. Edit: Please note, my friends, that this is supposed to be an international tournament for a reason. If you think that Loner shouldn't have been invited then you should also agree that there shouldn't have been NA or EU qualifiers but, rather, a huge free-for-all over all of the regions. You have to dispute the entire qualification process, invite or not, in order to dispute Loner's invitation. I think that TL went in the right direction with this. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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