Warning: It is HIGHLY recommended that you read the full OP and explanation post (below it). Uninformed opinions/questions that have already been answered will result in moderator action.
First we brought the TSL three of the best Protoss players in the world. The magnitude of the announcement set the bar high for the rest of the invites and when the Zerg invites were revealed a week later you guys went crazy. The bar was raised once again. We have five spots remaining, dedicated to the Terran players from Asia. We're bringing some of the biggest names in the business to represent their respective regions in the TSL.
Now that we've reached the end of our invites we feel that it is time to disclose our rationale behind the invite process. It should help you understand how we arrived at our list and appreciate why everyone was invited. This information will be posted as the first reply in this thread. Before we start announcing our Terran invites, you might like to enter our raffle by completing the quiz over at PokerStrategy.com - you never know, you might be the lucky person getting an all expenses paid trip to Korea!
If you haven't already, be sure to check out our previous Zerg and Protoss invite announcements.
Inside of Korea MVP has been regarded as the strongest player in the world for quite some time. For the majority of 2010 he held the #1 spot on the Korean ladder and was the first player in the world to reach 3000 points. Despite this, he was unable to win one of the first three seasons of the GSL. After GSL S3 ended, he played in a number of Korean tournaments like Gisado's all stars and the Gainward tournament. During the Gainward Tournament he competed in a field of over 700 players and only lost one game in the whole thing. He ploughed through players like MarineKing, Nada and TheStC and won the final convincingly 4-0. To follow on from this impressive performance, he went on to take the January GSL title where he once again beat a fearsome line up of players like MarineKing, NesTea, Tester and Fruitdealer. He is the most recent GSL champion and the most feared player in the world - a perfect fit for the TSL.
Loner is the most accomplished Chinese player in Starcraft 2 so far. He quickly made his way to Korea to compete in the GSL for Season 2 and teamed up with Prime to train in Korea. His GSL performance earned him a place in Code A without having to play any tie-breakers. Outside of the GSL, he was selected as one of the Chinese representatives to Blizzcon. Loner went through the Blizzcon tournament undefeated against everyone but Genius - the eventual winner. This included 2-0 victories over Huk and Sen. Despite not being able to qualify for Code S last season, he was able to retain Code A by making the Ro16 of the Code A tournament. He will be representing all of China this season and will be the first ever Chinese player in the TSL.
With back to back GSL semifinal appearances, and two convincing wins over IdrA in the GSL, Jinro is possibly the best non-Korean player in the world. Despite flying under the radar for most of 2010, Jinro broke out in force after winning MLG Dallas and dazzling us all with his amazing play - including some stand out games against players like Socke. Upon his return from MLG, Jinro got to work on the Korean scene and blew us all away by reaching the semifinals of Season 3 where he lost to eventual winner MC. In the January season of the GSL, Jinro bounced back from his semifinal defeat to MC and resoundingly beat him with a ground breaking mech style and powered his way to the GSL semifinals for the second time. The TSL just wouldn't be the TSL without the Gorilla Terran tearing his way through the competition.
If you were to ever write a book about consistency in progaming, Nada would be chapters one, five and seventeen. Nada has been a progamer since 2001 and in 2002 he won his first title. His blazing handspeed (400 apm) allowed him to reinvent Terran strategy as he won title after title after title. By the time he switched to SC2 he had won 3 MSLs and 3 OSLs all across different time periods and various personal struggles (he's also won multiple silvers and won many invite tournaments as well). Even today he remains the most decorated Starcraft 1 Progamer and one of the true legends of the game. In Starcraft 2 Nada has not yet won a GSL title, but he is still a revered Progamer in Code S and finished Top 8 last season of the GSL.
There is no figure in esports that has had a greater impact on the development and acceptance of esports in mainstream culture than Boxer. Throughout his incredibly successful Starcraft 1 career, Boxer has become an icon of the industry and the first real esports superstar. He got to this position through winning a ridiculous number of tournaments prior to 2001 at a time when Terran was considered a weak race. His revolutionary control created many timeless moments that will be rewatched again and again by fans. You can read more about his Starcraft 1 career in his biography; 'Crazy as me'. In Starcraft 2 Boxer's starpower was enough to break the GOM servers when he first played. But he's not all looks and personality, he's a force in the game as well. He secured Code S during the first three seasons of the GSL and was able to retain Code S in January by finishing Top 16. It is a genuine privilege to have The Emperor participate in the TSL and we're all eagerly anticipating the amazing games he's going to show us during the tournament.
The PokerStrategy.com TSL3 is going to contain the best players in the world and offer you a unique opportunity to see the best from around the world do battle. You'll see your favorites like White-Ra and TLO go up against the heavy hitters from Korea like MC, NesTea, MVP - or even Boxer. No where else can you see such a diverse and skilled lineup. There is still one qualifier left, and this qualify is the last chance for people to qualify for the TSL. We will still have an announcement to make next week - tune in to the official TeamLiquid cast where we will announce the Map Pool as well as the Casters for the TSL.
Stay tuned for our recap of the seventh TSL Qualifier. This TSL is sponsored by PokerStrategy.com, the world's largest poker school and community. With hundreds of Poker VODs and an assortment of learning material in 18 different languages, PokerStrategy.com offers the chance for aspiring Poker players to learn from a beginner to a professional level. Sign up using TL's referral link.
First of all we're glad for all the positive responses we have gotten so far and we are truly excited to see all these incredible names in our tournament. The unique thing about the TeamLiquid staff is that at heart we are all massive fanboys just like you. We love this game and we love watching our favorite players in action on the big stage. Seeing names like Boxer and Nada in a TeamLiquid tournament is a dream come true for many of us. However, coming up with 13 invites with so many conflicting opinions was a difficult task, and one that was started a long time ago. Early December, to be precise. Now that the invites have been fully announced we feel that it is time to disclose how we ended up deciding on our 13 invites.
Our first priority with our invites was to give the players who had made the trip to train in Korea a shot at the TSL. These players all have aspirations to be the best that they can be, and they all feel that Korea is the place to be if you want to fulfil that dream. Since we had made the decision to disallow participation the TSL Qualifiers for gamers based on Asian servers, without being invited these players would not have been able to participate. Out of appreciation for their dedication to the sport Ret, Haypro, Jinro, Idra and Huk were all added to our invite list.
We also knew that disallowing Asia meant disallowing China and Taiwan. With Sen already being invited from his TSL2 performance, we felt the best way to represent this scene was to invite the best performing player from China. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite.
With the remainder of our invites we sought out all the champions from Korea and topped off the list with two absolute legends. FruitDealer, NesTea, MC, the unknown GSL Season 4 champion and Genius, the Blizzcon Champion, were all added to our list as well as Boxer and Nada. In early January we sent out the invites to our players and every player accepted. For the GSL4 Champion invite, we alerted GOM to our intentions and when MVP won Season 4 he received and accepted his invite as well. Thus, completing our 13 Asian Invites.
Perhaps you are still upset that your favorite player was not invited this season, and we understand that. With only 13 places available it is impossible to put together a list of players that will please everyone. Also please understand the timing of the invites, these were organised and coordinated in early January since for tournaments like the TSL to be successful, you get on top of your invites early otherwise things turn into an organisational mess. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
Could we have made exceptions for our invites so they could compete in the TSL Qualifiers? Unfortunately, no we could not. Knowing that there is extreme delay when playing on EU from Korea, we didn't feel that forcing the players try and qualify in these conditions was the right move for a professional tournament. The poor KR-EU conditions would mean that the Korea based gamers would be trying to qualify primarily through the NA Tournaments. This would mean that the qualification would be incredibly unfair for the NA based gamers and as a result create an unfair qualification system. We believe in a fair qualifier, so this wasn't an option. It's also hard to deny that the TSL would not have felt complete without the addition of these players. Without the staff capability of running TL level TSL Qualifier we felt that this was the best way to create a professional international touranment.
We hope you enjoy seeing these players in the PokerStrategy.com TSL3.
I just logged in to congratulate TL for having that awesome of a tournament so they could invite THAT lineup. And thats for all races. Thanks sponsors and TL staff.
Who could've predicted that two bonjwas would be playing in the TSL two years ago?
If during the Razer TSL Chill or Artosis said BoxeR and NaDa, the most famous and most successful StarCraft players of all time, would be playing in our little unknown foreigner tourney, they'd be laughed out of the community.
I'm already having butterflies just thinking about some of these matchups in TSL 3. Surprised that MKP is missing, with two GSL final appearances under his belt. Although honestly it's difficult to complain much with the tournament line up being so amazing.
If this list was drawn up before GSL 4 why was MVP invited when he hadnt even made a top 8 and marine king had a runner up and top finish in seasons 2 and 3 respectively?
User was warned for this post because he did not read the damn post
On February 20 2011 08:37 Nick_54 wrote: If this list was drawn up before GSL 4 why was MVP invited when he hadnt even made a top 8 and marine king had a runner up and top finish in seasons 2 and 3 respectively?
Because they choose 'GSL4 winner' as an invite without knowing who it would be.
Really, after getting MC and Nestea and Fruitdealer, I knew it was only a matter of time before Nada/Boxer/Mvp was announced. Great work guys, and seriously thank you! Can't wait for the tourney
On February 20 2011 08:37 Nick_54 wrote: If this list was drawn up before GSL 4 why was MVP invited when he hadnt even made a top 8 and marine king had a runner up and top finish in seasons 2 and 3 respectively?
With the remainder of our invites we sought out all the champions from Korea and topped off the list with two absolute legends. FruitDealer, NesTea, MC, the unknown GSL Season 4 champion and Genius, the Blizzcon Champion, were all added to our list as well as Boxer and Nada.
The choices totally make sense considering the time they were made and, frankly, I think they still stand up quite well. I was already crazy pumped after the P and Z announcements, but now.. this is going to be so awesome :D
Holy macaroni, BOXER in the TSL? YES PLEASE! going to be so fantastic, though we now NEED a way to watch the final live on a stage. Can't TL use all it's E-sports dollar and hire an american football stadium or something?
Holy shit! Love MVP's play and Nada is one of my favorite players ever. Really excited for this, glad to see Koreans playing in a western based tournament!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Still is too bad that MKP and Moonglade are both left out in Loners stead lol. I'm pretty amazed by that. I mean whatever I don't think Loner has a shot in this, moonglade would probably have difficulty as well, but MKP would have a shot at top 4 no doubt.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
I just hope that nada and boxer actually play the game seriously, from what i saw in the boxer documentary he is really busy with other stuff and the time for practice is rather thin. Nadas play doesnt strike me as he put in any effort and just plays with his former skill that carried over from bw.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Great great great invites. I assumed it'd be mvp, jinro, boxer & nada except my 5th choice was marineking, but I think Loner definitely deserves the spot as well.
If only there was 1 more spot for terran because MarineKing has been consistent as hell.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
oh my god I´m so excited I´m almost crying tears of joy. ro32 should already be bo5! (pretty please ) so all the random guys (no offence here) get kicked out by the invited players we all love so much
quoted for epicness
On February 20 2011 08:31 Ares[Effort] wrote: Nada vs Boxer in finals!
Don't agree even with the invites at all, especially after reading Plexa's reply. But it's gonna be an amazing tournament nonetheless. Hope Nestea, Mvp or Huk take it!
I actually like the Loner invite... It enhances the whole global aspect of TSL, in said aspect, TSL blows the hell out of GSL, which is really awesome. Plus, Loner is always a surprising player, he pulls off great performances when less expected.
MKP would have been great too, he's a solid player and moreover, very fun to watch, but loner is a great invite as well.
Boxer and Nada?!?! In the TSL?!? The two most legendary and awesome Terran players of all time in a foreign tournament? Shit is so fucking crazy. Just take a few seconds and think about that. Incredibly amazing.
Awesome choices! The Loner invite is really important to include our chinese mates, because they often couldn't participate in both foreign & korean scene stuff.
While at first I disagreed with Loner over MKP, thinking that he might have just declined or something I understand
We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions [in January] since they had not happened yet.
Makes sense, as most people might have still been thinking MKP in the finals was a fluke, and Loner will of course attract da Chinese fans
I can completely understand the reasoning behind MKP and overall i am ecstatic about these invites, imagine in TSL1 if you got told boxer and nada would play in TSL 3 you would think they were crazy.
When I saw Boxer I drooled and now I look like I pissed myself T-T But well :D this will be the most awesome tournament as of any SC2 tournament that has ever been played...!!!
On February 20 2011 08:51 Roggay wrote: Plexa, you should put the reason you didnt invited MKP in red or somewhere easy to see, otherwise people will keep asking.
Who could have imagined, that the legends NaDa and Boxer would one day play in a TL tournament? So huge. Would be great if they could live up to what they used to be (even if its unlikely).
On February 20 2011 08:56 CruelZeratul wrote: Who could have imagined, that the legends NaDa and Boxer would one day play in a TL tournament? So huge. Would be great if they could live up to what they used to be (even if its unlikely).
Don't expect them to roll over and die. They are still two of the best players in the world.
You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
On February 20 2011 08:37 Nick_54 wrote: If this list was drawn up before GSL 4 why was MVP invited when he hadnt even made a top 8 and marine king had a runner up and top finish in seasons 2 and 3 respectively?
On February 20 2011 08:58 raga4ka wrote: You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
JulyZerg had not done anything in sc2 when they invites were made, it should be obvious.
I have to say, although I am no fan of SC2, I am a huge fan of TL and BW, and I am so glad that such a large number of Korean superstars, as well as Boxer and Nada, are participating in a TL tourney. SC2 was really an opportunity for TL to explode onto the scene and TL has done everything it could to climb as high as possible. Congratulations to everyone who has made this happen, you are legends in your own right! TL fighting!
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
You clearly haven't read the post.
Wow.. a ton of people replying "Haven't read the post." To your great dismay, I both listened to the live cast and read the whole OP before posting this. The part about Loner:
"We also knew that disallowing Asia meant disallowing China and Taiwan. With Sen already being invited from his TSL2 performance, we felt the best way to represent this scene was to invite the best performing player from China. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite. "
Yeah, strongest representative from Chine indeed. But not top 5 representative from Korea/Asia at all. I see the choice of trying to make the tournament as global as possible by inviting a chinese player, but still express my disappointment that the 5 invites were not given to the top 5 players of this area. Foxer was top 5 in Asia basically all the time starting from his Final appearance in GSL 2 until now. ( Top 8 in GSL 3 where he lost to winner MC, then another finals).
TLDR: It's your league, you can choose whoever you like, and overall the invitees are AMAZING, almost perfect imho, just saying what I don't like.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
You clearly haven't read the post.
Wow.. a ton of people replying "Haven't read the post." To your great dismay, I both listened to the live cast and read the whole OP before posting this. The part about Loner:
"We also knew that disallowing Asia meant disallowing China and Taiwan. With Sen already being invited from his TSL2 performance, we felt the best way to represent this scene was to invite the best performing player from China. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite. "
Yeah, strongest representative from Chine indeed. But not top 5 representative from Korea/Asia at all. I see the choice of trying to make the tournament as global as possible by inviting a chinese player, but still express my disappointment that the 5 invites were not given to the top 5 players of this area. Foxer was top 5 in Asia basically all the time starting from his Final appearance in GSL 2 until now. ( Top 8 in GSL 3 where he lost to winner MC, then another finals).
TLDR: It's your league, you can choose whoever you like, and overall the invitees are AMAZING, almost perfect imho, just saying what I don't like.
To my dismay you seemed to have omitted the real explanation from the post that you supposedly read.
Also please understand the timing of the invites, these were organised and coordinated in early January since for tournaments like the TSL to be successful, you get on top of your invites early otherwise things turn into an organisational mess. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
There was still people at that time being unimpressed by MKP and thinking he was a fluke, like Rainbow who got a Finals and a Semifinal in a row oooooh ahhhh, but in reality Rainbow is not, Top 5.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
You clearly haven't read the post.
Wow.. a ton of people replying "Haven't read the post." To your great dismay, I both listened to the live cast and read the whole OP before posting this. The part about Loner:
"We also knew that disallowing Asia meant disallowing China and Taiwan. With Sen already being invited from his TSL2 performance, we felt the best way to represent this scene was to invite the best performing player from China. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite. "
Yeah, strongest representative from Chine indeed. But not top 5 representative from Korea/Asia at all. I see the choice of trying to make the tournament as global as possible by inviting a chinese player, but still express my disappointment that the 5 invites were not given to the top 5 players of this area. Foxer was top 5 in Asia basically all the time starting from his Final appearance in GSL 2 until now. ( Top 8 in GSL 3 where he lost to winner MC, then another finals).
TLDR: It's your league, you can choose whoever you like, and overall the invitees are AMAZING, almost perfect imho, just saying what I don't like.
To your great dismay, you didnt read the second post of Plexa.
On February 20 2011 08:58 raga4ka wrote: You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
JulyZerg had not done anything in sc2 when they invites were made, it should be obvious.
He made the Ro8 and played a close series with MC i would say that is an equall achievement to that of Boxer's . If MC was eliminated back then we probably wouldn't be seeing him in TSL . Boxer and Nada got invited , because they are legends an i am pissed , because July is being left out meening that people don't acknowledge what he has done for Starcraft e - sports .
On February 20 2011 08:58 raga4ka wrote: You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
JulyZerg had not done anything in sc2 when they invites were made, it should be obvious.
He made the Ro8 and played a close series with MC i would say that is an equall achievement to that of Boxer's .
No he didnt went to the Ro8, else he would have been in code S right away.
On February 20 2011 08:58 raga4ka wrote: You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
JulyZerg had not done anything in sc2 when they invites were made, it should be obvious.
He made the Ro8 and played a close series with MC i would say that is an equall achievement to that of Boxer's . If MC was eliminated back then we probably wouldn't be seeing him in TSL . Boxer and Nada got invited , because they are legends an i am pissed , because July is being left out meening that people don't acknowledge what he has done for Starcraft e - sports .
On February 20 2011 08:58 raga4ka wrote: You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
JulyZerg had not done anything in sc2 when they invites were made, it should be obvious.
He made the Ro8 and played a close series with MC i would say that is an equall achievement to that of Boxer's .
No he didnt went to the Ro8, else he would have been in code S right away.
Even so losing to MC in close series is probably the same as winning some no name back then , my point is that Boxer and Nada got invited do to their fame or we would have MKP playing here , while July got left out like he is some random zerg ...
Very, VERY exciting news indeed. All these invites are crazy strong players, and it'll be quite awesome to see the many epic games that will come out of this coming TSL3. With all these top Asian players and the top players from around the world, TSL is shaping up to be a true Global Starcraft league.
Guys, of all the korean invites, they are all 4 GSL Champions and Blizzcon Champion, and then NaDa and BoxeR as the legends, everyone else is a foreigner, because this is a foreigner tournament how is this hard to understand?
I can't believe these invites. So crazy... the TSL is actually going to be just as tough a tournament to win as the GSL code S. Congratulations on the awesome roster TL and of course...
On February 20 2011 08:58 raga4ka wrote: You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
JulyZerg had not done anything in sc2 when they invites were made, it should be obvious.
He made the Ro8 and played a close series with MC i would say that is an equall achievement to that of Boxer's .
No he didnt went to the Ro8, else he would have been in code S right away.
Even so losing to MC in close series is probably the same as winning some no name back then , my point is that Boxer and Nada got invited do to their fame or we would have MKP playing here , while July got left out like he is some random zerg ...
July never got a lot of hype/exposure/success (playing sc2) until recently, it is pretty normal he wasn't invited at the time.
Fact: This is going to be the biggest SC2 tournament of all-time. Maybe not the tournament with the most skilled players... but it will be bigger than any other tournament. If you disagree, you are wrong. This is going to be epic!
Nada and Boxer in a Teamliquid tournament? That's absolutely amazing. You can argue about the details but come on, Teamliquid, a still largely volunteer organization got all 4 winners of the GSL and the two biggest legends of Starcraft to participate in their tournament.
Oh, yeah, good luck managing the stream if Boxer makes it far
Definitely think MKP should have loner's spot. No disrespect to him, but I feel like MKP has accomplished much more and really deserves the spot. Overall it's an incredible list of players. So stoked for this.
On February 20 2011 08:58 raga4ka wrote: You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
JulyZerg had not done anything in sc2 when they invites were made, it should be obvious.
He made the Ro8 and played a close series with MC i would say that is an equall achievement to that of Boxer's .
No he didnt went to the Ro8, else he would have been in code S right away.
Even so losing to MC in close series is probably the same as winning some no name back then , my point is that Boxer and Nada got invited do to their fame or we would have MKP playing here , while July got left out like he is some random zerg ...
July never got a lot of hype/exposure/success (playing sc2) until recently, it is pretty normal he wasn't invited at the time.
The fact that July didn't get enough hype is exactly why i am sad about this .
I guess my point for sayign MKP deserves Loners spot is this
TSL has a QUALIFICATION system based on points and automatic bids for someone who wins.
So shouldn't MKP's consistency getting like 2nd 4th (losing to eventual champion) 2nd (even though at the time they didn't know).
Basically MKP lost to the eventual champion 3 out of 3 times, so if we're rewarding consistency and seeing TLO at the top of the points ranking due to the most consistent performances then why are we not allowing MKP in.
On February 20 2011 09:27 LambtrOn wrote: Definitely think MKP should have loner's spot. No disrespect to him, but I feel like MKP has accomplished much more and really deserves the spot. Overall it's an incredible list of players. So stoked for this.
But it's not just based on achievements, that's the thing. It's fine to disagree with the principle but as far as I know TSL has never been totally about inviting just the best players in the world.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
You clearly haven't read the post.
Wow.. a ton of people replying "Haven't read the post." To your great dismay, I both listened to the live cast and read the whole OP before posting this. The part about Loner:
"We also knew that disallowing Asia meant disallowing China and Taiwan. With Sen already being invited from his TSL2 performance, we felt the best way to represent this scene was to invite the best performing player from China. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite. "
Yeah, strongest representative from Chine indeed. But not top 5 representative from Korea/Asia at all. I see the choice of trying to make the tournament as global as possible by inviting a chinese player, but still express my disappointment that the 5 invites were not given to the top 5 players of this area. Foxer was top 5 in Asia basically all the time starting from his Final appearance in GSL 2 until now. ( Top 8 in GSL 3 where he lost to winner MC, then another finals).
TLDR: It's your league, you can choose whoever you like, and overall the invitees are AMAZING, almost perfect imho, just saying what I don't like.
To my dismay you seemed to have omitted the real explanation from the post that you supposedly read.
Also please understand the timing of the invites, these were organised and coordinated in early January since for tournaments like the TSL to be successful, you get on top of your invites early otherwise things turn into an organisational mess. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
There was still people at that time being unimpressed by MKP and thinking he was a fluke, like Rainbow who got a Finals and a Semifinal in a row oooooh ahhhh, but in reality Rainbow is not, Top 5.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote:
Foxer was top 5 in Asia basically all the time starting from his Final appearance in GSL 2 until now. ( Top 8 in GSL 3 where he lost to winner MC, then another finals).
Anyway, it's becoming a silly argument now, so let's end it here. Looking forward to watching TSL 3!!!
On February 20 2011 09:37 raga4ka wrote: BTW can anyone tell me who is Moonglade everyone seems to mention him , but i have never heard of him or watched him play ?
Moonglade is a very strong zerg player from Australia who just beat Loner at the IEM Asia grand finals and will be taking part in the upcoming GSL code A. A lot of people think he would have been a more worthy invite to the TSL than Haypro, but as Plexa explained these selections were made in January and Moonglade wasn't as notable back then.
Well MKP is my favorite Terran so I'm 1% sad he's not gonna be playing, but I'm still 99% pumped about everybody else so this will still be the best tournament ever. Gotta give TL props for getting this many great Koreans in the tournament.
Quick side note, I can't believe how fast Fruit Dealer has fallen.... he's a distant second to last for the "most excited invite". Hope he gets back on top.
I've actually started following their results even though I don't even own a copy of the game. I think if I met these people in real life I'd be frozen because I'd be so overwhelmed by their greatness that I'd feel like an insignificant little worm.
I know that MVP is like... completely and utterly destroying everyone, but I hope for a NaDa vs Boxer finals.
oh wow... this is nothing short of amazing... I'm going to watch the TSL 3 annoucement video like 5 times so i can get hiped up even more (that video is amazing). This tournament is going to be easily one of THE best in E SPORTs history
On February 20 2011 08:52 ImmortalTofu wrote: Loner is CHINESE... But... I still want my favorite terran of them all!! MKP... .
Anyway, BOXER, NADA, JINRO HWAITINNGGGGG
QFT. I understand the reasoning but MKP is just SO FUN to watch. Gonna be amazing either way, especially cause virtually the entire Team Liquid roster is playing. Team Liquid, Boxer, and GSL champs and Genius HWAITINNGGG
holy wow crazy invites : D I was scrolling down the list going being impressed but not surprised by mvp, jinro etc THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, bam! Nada and Boxer :D great work guys!
Was expecting all the invites except for Loner, but he's a pleasant surprise. I'm definitely looking forward to watching the TSL3; especially if Mondragon provides some highly skilled and entertaining games seeing as he's more committed to SC2 now.
The Terran invites seem like their the most well received out of the three races with all the (pointless) arguing over the merits of the Zerg and Protoss invites.
I cannot believe the caliber of players for the Korean invite. Nada, Boxer, IMmvp, JINRO! and even Loner.
This is going to be a 100% epic tournament, especially since the US will be throwing folks at these guys who are coming from the ground up. This is like the Reddit invitational times a million. Thank you SO much TL!
TL, you are the best. Nothing can describe how excited I am. The invites are damn near perfect, with the exception of MKP not being there (but you justified your reasons). Overall, this will be a HELL OF A TOURNAMENT!!!!!! Its good Loner was invited, cause hopefully many chinese will be attracted to the TSL. EFF YEAH!!!!!
I am super excited for these invites! I am surprised that MKP didn't make it but I have no issues with any of the invites. I look extremely forward to seeing Nadas play with more prep/play time under his belt.
Awesome lineup, I kinda knew these were the players we'd see after seeing the Toss and Zerg lineups. MKP is a miss (love watching him play) but only 13 spots someone had to be left out I guess.
So looking forward to the TSL. It would be great even if the only participants were the invitees. But that's not the case. There are even more kickass players besides those who were invited.
On February 20 2011 08:58 raga4ka wrote: You invited Nada and Boxer , but didn't invite JulyZerg ... TL i am disappointed . JulyZerg deserved to be invited as much as this 2 players for entertaining us for years , and showing zerg players all over the world that zerg can in fact compete with the other 2 races in BW . He is as much of legend as Boxer and Nada , and this is somewhat of a FU to us zerg fans . If you can dump MKP to get Boxer or Nada you might as well dumped Fruitdealer and get July . I guess i have to deal with it , but can't help to feel disappointed about it .
JulyZerg had not done anything in sc2 when they invites were made, it should be obvious.
He made the Ro8 and played a close series with MC i would say that is an equall achievement to that of Boxer's . If MC was eliminated back then we probably wouldn't be seeing him in TSL . Boxer and Nada got invited , because they are legends an i am pissed , because July is being left out meening that people don't acknowledge what he has done for Starcraft e - sports .
Well, I'd say Boxer and Nada have done more for esports AND have preformed better than July in SC2, so I'd say they get the nod over him pretty much everytime if only two spots were reserved for "the legends".
sick sick sick! i thought that it woule be mkp instead of loner but after reading the reasonin i understand, i kind of forgot about the chinese D: doesnt matter, invite list is sick! although i think july would have been great, but nada and boxer blows my mind away on its own
I am unbelievably excited that you managed to get BoxeR and Mvp to play in the TSL. The bar has never been higher, and I absolutely cannot wait for the TSL to start.
This is going to be an amazing tournament. I love that TL can get huge names from the Korean scene to come participate. Can't wait to see everyone play each other. =D
I love Boxer, Nada, Loner, and Jinro, but none of them are as good as MKP, I can't fathom why he wouldn't be invited over them for any reason other than bias. It doesn't matter how well he does, people just aren't going to ever respect him at all.
User was temp banned for this post don't go around posting offensive things without even reading an OP.
hm... if there is this delay between ppl in eu/kr/na, how is it that the tsl is going to be played, say for example a euro player was to play a korean player, wudnt that cause lag? (sry if this has been answered somewhere in the tsl forums)
AWwwww man... well out of the 4 invites, considering the Zerg & Protoss invites were automatically sealed. Jinro,Nada,Mvp, and Boxer were 100% in my mind. Now the other one... I was really hoping for MarineKing, the most consistent Terran. Loner is somewhat underrated though, so I'm happy if it wasn't MKP, at least it was Loner. EXCITE!
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
You clearly haven't read the post.
Wow.. a ton of people replying "Haven't read the post." To your great dismay, I both listened to the live cast and read the whole OP before posting this. The part about Loner:
"We also knew that disallowing Asia meant disallowing China and Taiwan. With Sen already being invited from his TSL2 performance, we felt the best way to represent this scene was to invite the best performing player from China. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite. "
Yeah, strongest representative from Chine indeed. But not top 5 representative from Korea/Asia at all. I see the choice of trying to make the tournament as global as possible by inviting a chinese player, but still express my disappointment that the 5 invites were not given to the top 5 players of this area. Foxer was top 5 in Asia basically all the time starting from his Final appearance in GSL 2 until now. ( Top 8 in GSL 3 where he lost to winner MC, then another finals).
TLDR: It's your league, you can choose whoever you like, and overall the invitees are AMAZING, almost perfect imho, just saying what I don't like.
To my dismay you seemed to have omitted the real explanation from the post that you supposedly read.
Also please understand the timing of the invites, these were organised and coordinated in early January since for tournaments like the TSL to be successful, you get on top of your invites early otherwise things turn into an organisational mess. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
There was still people at that time being unimpressed by MKP and thinking he was a fluke, like Rainbow who got a Finals and a Semifinal in a row oooooh ahhhh, but in reality Rainbow is not, Top 5.
Foxer was top 5 in Asia basically all the time starting from his Final appearance in GSL 2 until now. ( Top 8 in GSL 3 where he lost to winner MC, then another finals).
Anyway, it's becoming a silly argument now, so let's end it here. Looking forward to watching TSL 3!!!
Since we're re-quoting ourselves:
On February 20 2011 09:08 Kazzabiss wrote: There was still people at that time being unimpressed by MKP and thinking he was a fluke, like Rainbow who got a Finals and a Semifinal in a row oooooh ahhhh, but in reality Rainbow is not, Top 5.
wow, nice on getting the Emperor...personally I'm glad that it ended up being Loner/Nada instead of MKP, although MKP would be just as entertaining probably if he's not totally solved by now.
I'm kind of glad MarineKingPrime wasn't invited. I just find his style of play kind of boring. I'd rather watch Boxer try to split a map with a wall of barracks and fail than MarineKing make marines ... again.
wooooow.... If they release the actual replays from this tournament like they have the qualifiers I am going to flip the F out. Plz oh plz i can haz replay?
This looks SO awesome! Does anyone know when the brackets will be released? I browsed all TSL threads and couldn't seem to find any date more precise than "march".
WOW! Nada and Boxer in a Teamliquid tournament! This is amazing for us viewers... I can't imagine how it must feel for the organizers and leaders involved! Massive props to all of you who are making this happen. Especially the lovely folks at TLAF and PokerStrategy!
Little bit annoyed with Loner, but it's ok, still stoked! Still would have given it to MKP even prior to knowing he'd make a second finals. Looking forward to it though!
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
I am so excited about the invites. In my mind they were all spot on and i cant wait to see these players duke it out. It is also going to be amazing having a TSL with korean superstars!!! Obviously korea isnt the mecca of starcraft anymore. Teamliquid is.
This tournament will be epic. Cant wait cant wait cant wait. I just hope the players from asia will come in early enough and wont be jetlagged like hell and playing awefull, but i dont doubt their will to prove their strenght.
When is TSL? And is this the first time TL got so many superstars in one of its tournaments? Or did they get July, Flash, Nada, etc. in the SC BW tournaments
On February 20 2011 13:10 Ashok wrote: When is TSL? And is this the first time TL got so many superstars in one of its tournaments? Or did they get July, Flash, Nada, etc. in the SC BW tournaments
Koreans weren't allowed to participate in the past, even if they wanted to. Skill gap was too big. There was even debate on whether IdrA should be allowed to play, since he was living there.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
Even prior to Season 4 MKP performed better than 4 out of 5 terrans on that list(all but Jinro), so that explanation is kind of stupid. Anyway, it's final so it doesn't matter.
Pretty good line up! But I was a little suprised that marine king prime wasnt in that list. I had a feeling it was going to be a toss up between big names vs new upcoming players, either way it's going to be quite awesome!
when i saw MVP, i said: "lol obviously" when i saw Loner, i said: " oh cool! another chinese player! CHINA PRIDE!!" when i saw Jinro, i said: "GORILLA STOMP!" when i saw Nada, i erected when i saw Boxer, i jizzed
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
Even prior to Season 4 MKP performed better than 4 out of 5 terrans on that list(all but Jinro), so that explanation is kind of stupid. Anyway, it's final so it doesn't matter.
Marineking #2 terran in the world not invited, such a shame. even prior to gsl 4 marineking should have been considered the 1st terran to invite since he not only has a very unique and exciting play style but got to the gsl finals against nestea. i mean gsl 4 aside he has a better resume than every other terran on that list, and counting gsl4 only mvp should be ranked above him. i dont understand how mvp could be invited though based on TL choosing the players in january prior to him even winning gsl4. and if he was indeed invited later based on his win of GSL4 then it wasnt to late to invite marineking as well.
On February 20 2011 11:29 kefkaesque wrote: I love Boxer, Nada, Loner, and Jinro, but none of them are as good as MKP, I can't fathom why he wouldn't be invited over them for any reason other than bias. It doesn't matter how well he does, people just aren't going to ever respect him at all.
User was temp banned for this post don't go around posting offensive things without even reading an OP.
Love the mods with the creative explination temp ban.
Personally, I've never seen a TSL and the hype/invites/opens have been nothing short of fantastic. Keep it up TL! As HuK is the only Canadian (So far) to qualify, I'll be cheering for him.
HOLY CRAP. Could you get better invites!? Not really. Wow. I'm speechless.
... I mean "better" in terms of entertainment. If I must be objective, a couple of the invites are not the strongest terrans I've seen, but they are legends in the StarCraft community so I don't care. MVP and Jinro are solid.
Def stoked about all the invites! I really am excited to see how the EU and NA players match up against the Asian invites! I'm really really hoping for a no namer to come out of nowhere and shock everyone. I will be cheering for the team liquid guys for sure, but you gotta love a good cinderella story.
Man, I get so excited thinking about what a huge opportunity it is for some of the lesser known guys to play against the likes of Nada and Mvp. It's just mind blowing. If I ever get good enough to even play a match against any of the invites that would be incredible!
Da yoon yeolzsgfsdfgsfgsf greatest most talented player ever Hopefully latency won't hurt the quality of games much but super excited nonetheless. I pray mvp shows everyone why he is the most feared player atm.
On February 20 2011 15:20 raist wrote: I apologize if this has been asked before, but are the koreans coming over here to play or will it be over the net???
Over the Internets. Finalist are going to fly to NY to play and no general public can't see those games live.
Loner is a good choice, the last two TSL despite being a global foreign starleague unfortunately didn't include the chinese players because of lag issues.
Great invites. Though I was expecting to see the King of Marines there, I'm not really dissapointed about it.
For people complaingin about Loner; think about it like this. Chinese aren't allowed to compete in the qualifiers, so for them to have a reprensative a chinese player should be invited and as of now Loner is the most accomplished SC2 player from China. And he is actually pretty damn good too, just a bit inconsistent.
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
Even prior to Season 4 MKP performed better than 4 out of 5 terrans on that list(all but Jinro), so that explanation is kind of stupid. Anyway, it's final so it doesn't matter.
By the same reasoning we should have invited Rainbow since he placed 2nd in S1 and made the semifinals in S2. Further, Rainbow had more consistent results than MKP over the first season three seasons of GSL so we should have invited Rainbow over MKP and loner . You don't hear people calling for Rainbow to be invited now do you? The primary reason MKP has so much support is because he made a second final - something we could never have anticipated.
I can't believe people are arguing over MKP when freaking THE EMPORER SLAYERS_BOXER, THE MAN WHO MADE ESPORTS WHAT IT IS TODAY AND MOTHER EFFING NADA, THE BONJWAS OF BONJWANIA ARE GOING TO BE IN THE TSL
A YEAR AGO IT WAS NOT EVEN FATHOMABLE THAT THESE LEGENDS WOULD PLAY IN A FOREIGNER TOURNAMENT
and now...wow, we've come such a long way. I can't even..I'm not even...just wow.
I think Team Liquid did a great job of the picks, I dont think TSL is to NOT to get the best 32 players in the world, if that's that goal, just invite 38 code s player plus some foreign invites, I think the goal here is to give people from different regions a fair shoot to get involved in the tourney, thus the NA, EU qualifiers, Loner may not be the strongest players among the invites, but I think he's pretty decent, would definitely get a chance if there's China Qualifier, plus getting people from different regions always a good idea for esports, for now and future, especially we are talking about china here
on a side note, no BitBitBit? I am disappointed !! I think he's the second best player in the world !! only second to clide !
Wow I am thoroughly impressed at the incredibly fantastic lineup that we're seeing for the TSL. This shit is going to be nuts, major props to TL and PokerStrategy for making whats shaping up to be an insane tournament.
Ahh i love these invites. I didn't expect loner but he's awesome and a foreigner (kinda) ^^! Also nada,boxer and mvp hell yea!!! Anyways i'm sure everyone expected jinro to play since he's the most successful foreigner ^^!
You guys are awesome. There is absolutely no need to apologize for any player missing, I don't see how anyone could complain about this list of players. MKP could be in, but so could quite a few others, with 13 invites this list is absolutely insane.
I personally think MKP should have been invited even if he didn't make a second GSL finals based on his performance in non-GSL tournaments, but I guess I can understand the rationale for leaving him out. What I disagree with is Loner's invite -- it seems like pandering to the Chinese community more than anything else.
On February 20 2011 17:10 hmunkey wrote: I personally think MKP should have been invited even if he didn't make a second GSL finals based on his performance in non-GSL tournaments, but I guess I can understand the rationale for leaving him out. What I disagree with is Loner's invite -- it seems like pandering to the Chinese community more than anything else.
What non-GSL tournaments are these? Gainward where he got stomped by MVP? Gisado where he didn't shine either? Ygosu invite? (i don't even know where he placed in this).
I completely agree with all the nominations, especially Loner. To make this tournament get more of a World Cup feeling we need the best from every part of the world, and China is indeed a big part of it. A bit sad about moonglade, but as you wrote, nothing to be done about it.
Sad that MKP didn't get no invite, but you guys did a good job at getting those invites without knowing the results for the forthcoming GSL4. Guess it would have been pretty underwhelming had MKP collapsed in season 4 and received an invite (^^)
Could we have made exceptions for our invites so they could compete in the TSL Qualifiers? Unfortunately, no we could not. Knowing that there is extreme delay when playing on EU from Korea, we didn't feel that forcing the players try and qualify in these conditions was the right move for a professional tournament. The poor KR-EU conditions would mean that the Korea based gamers would be trying to qualify primarily through the NA Tournaments. This would mean that the qualification would be incredibly unfair for the NA based gamers and as a result create an unfair qualification system. We believe in a fair qualifier, so this wasn't an option. It's also hard to deny that the TSL would not have felt complete without the addition of these players. Without the staff capability of running TL level TSL Qualifier we felt that this was the best way to create a professional international touranment.
Interesting... It seems that TL is being sneaky with their hidden messages! What this paragraph is really trying to say is that.... Bnet 2.0 is garbage, and needs to be fixed. This seems to be coming up more often from higher up players (See State of the Game, Episode 27. Near the end where Tyler asks iNControl and Idra why EG decided to go to Korea).
Maybe Blizzard is going to get a clue...
Also, I love the lineup for this tournament. Excited to see more moves from both Nestea, MVP, MC, Jinro, Grack.... hell, every player!
Only minor change I would have wanted was MKP for Loner (seems Jinro and he are close), but that's a personal preference and it's nice to have China's ace represented(Ace for now. -.- SEN!). Aaah sick. Boxer Nada MC Genius Fruit Dealer. A Tournament of them alone would be must watch tv.
Love the writeups, great job. Boxer being there is enuff for me to watch this for sure. Nada of course, another awesome addition. Would have been awesome to see MKP vs Boxer tho!
Ok, It is a huge amount of hyperbole but... This could quite possibly amount to the best starcraft tournament I have seen. The lineups guarantee storylines and strong play, and the casting is going to be magnificent. I feel like this tournament is a wonderful gift team liquid is giving the community. Thank You.
I wouldn't have thought they'd get Boxer. So awesome.
Together with all the other invites and the qualified players, the lineup is incredible. TSL3 will be a benchmark for future "international" tournaments.
On February 20 2011 20:31 Cassim wrote: missing MarineKing.Prime
Also please understand the timing of the invites, these were organised and coordinated in early January since for tournaments like the TSL to be successful, you get on top of your invites early otherwise things turn into an organisational mess. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
Warning: It is HIGHLY recommended that you read the full OP and explanation post (below it). Uneducated opinions/questions that have already been answered will be dealt with accordingly.
Off to a good start there, Cassim.
Excited about the picks, I kind expected Boxer and Nada but for some reason totally missed MVP! Also freaking chat went NUTS when you guys trolled us with BitByBit, holy shit. Even I was like LOL WHAT THE FUUUUU
I wasn't even sure you were joking until after you told us all the invites and I did a recount. Dammit Chill. You have too good of an ability to keep a straight face while trolling thousands of people.
On February 20 2011 17:10 hmunkey wrote: I personally think MKP should have been invited even if he didn't make a second GSL finals based on his performance in non-GSL tournaments, but I guess I can understand the rationale for leaving him out. What I disagree with is Loner's invite -- it seems like pandering to the Chinese community more than anything else.
What non-GSL tournaments are these? Gainward where he got stomped by MVP? Gisado where he didn't shine either? Ygosu invite? (i don't even know where he placed in this).
Gainward he was the only one to take a game off mvp, and it was in the semis. I cannot see how you can just throw that away as "got stomped my mvp". He ended up getting 3rd, smashing byun. Also remember this tourney had a 768 player prelim. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gainward_SC2_Tournament
wow amazing invites good job team liquid haha! I am fully behind the pick of Loner I mean it would be kinda weird to have only Koreans from the Asian invites except for the liquid guys. They might have a better player in MKP but there are more countries in Asia that deserve a player in such an awesome tournament, world cup starcraft anyone? :D
These invites make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
edit: I don't even know the answer to the poll to many good invites to choose from rofl.
On February 20 2011 17:10 hmunkey wrote: I personally think MKP should have been invited even if he didn't make a second GSL finals based on his performance in non-GSL tournaments, but I guess I can understand the rationale for leaving him out. What I disagree with is Loner's invite -- it seems like pandering to the Chinese community more than anything else.
What non-GSL tournaments are these? Gainward where he got stomped by MVP? Gisado where he didn't shine either? Ygosu invite? (i don't even know where he placed in this).
Gainward he was the only one to take a game off mvp, and it was in the semis. I cannot see how you can just throw that away as "got stomped my mvp". He ended up getting 3rd, smashing byun. Also remember this tourney had a 768 player prelim. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gainward_SC2_Tournament
I think the terran invites are fine, but you cannot say that mkp didn't deserve an invite EVEN based on data pre-gsl4
Think he might have got an All Kill in the Zotac team invitational.. anyway not important..
all i can say is these invites are incredible.. the explanation about why/who/what and where about the invites in my eyes is pretty unnecessary.. there is a ridiculous amount of talent in the Terran invites; so your favourite player wasn't chosen? pretty weak reason to have a whinge.. TL is doing great things with TSL3 So YOU believe player X > player Y and therefore deserves an invite.. hmm still pretty weak;
Maybe if they invited nobodies that we didn't care about; or had next to zero skill.. then there may be call for uproar - but these are top players that are going to put on a great show!
At the time of selection Rainbow had been in at least the semifinals of 2/3 GSL's (!) and is a BW legend to boot. The latter alone seems to have been good enough for Boxer and Nada, so it's quite baffling to imagine that he wasn't invited. Perhaps he declined for some reason. I would also have preferred to see MarineKing over Boxer/Nada (yes, even discounting s4), but that's more a matter of taste: I don't weight legend status as heavily as some.
On February 20 2011 22:43 hyperioNsin wrote: LOL i would totaly replace Loner Nada and Boxer, these guys arent top terrans at all....
Most people here get really exited to see these old-school players play, no matter if they just won GSL or not. Everytime I see NaDa play, I get *insert Artosis quote here*
On February 20 2011 22:43 hyperioNsin wrote: LOL i would totaly replace Loner Nada and Boxer, these guys arent top terrans at all....
Most people here get really exited to see these old-school players play, no matter if they just won GSL or not. Everytime I see NaDa play, I get *insert Artosis quote here*
Wiggly with a banana grin and a side of geek chills?
This is going to be the best tournament ever, i know GSL is awsome but with all the announcements for the 3 races plus the ppl that qualified i cannot wait to watch all games and i mean ALL GAMES.
Please God(TL) let it be a replay pack for the whole tournament
I just don't get why people don't read the damn post before posting themselves.
anyway, I cannot wait for this tournament to start. Will Korea dominate? Will foreigner in korea domiate? Will a westerner with creative play own them all? I'm sooooooooooooooo hyped!!!
In God and Plexa I trust! NaDa and BoxeR in TSL 3!!!!sdfghjkl;';lkjhgf I cant believe it... A year back I wouldn't have even imagined it in my wildest dreams. Now I have tears in my eyes. No joke.
What can I say but Thank you for this.
NaDa gonna get y'all. Better get ready for this... The biggest torney in E-sports history NO DOUBT!!
At first I was disappointed in the lack of MKP, but it makes sense when you realize that this is a "tournament of Champions" kind of thing - why the winners of the qualifiers get auto-invites instead of a point system that rewards consistency over peak performances.
I don't think people have commented enough on how awesome it is that every single invited Korean player accepted. Really shows the strength of the foreigner scene in sc2.
I just hope there's some way of evening out the lag problem.
I am realy looking forward to some interviews before the tournament. I realy wonder what koreans have to say about foreign scene, this tourney and their oponnents.
On February 20 2011 07:19 Plexa wrote:The unique thing about the TeamLiquid staff is that at heart we are all massive fanboys just like you...Seeing names like Boxer and Nada in a TeamLiquid tournament is a dream come true for many of us.
On February 20 2011 17:10 hmunkey wrote: I personally think MKP should have been invited even if he didn't make a second GSL finals based on his performance in non-GSL tournaments, but I guess I can understand the rationale for leaving him out. What I disagree with is Loner's invite -- it seems like pandering to the Chinese community more than anything else.
What non-GSL tournaments are these? Gainward where he got stomped by MVP? Gisado where he didn't shine either? Ygosu invite? (i don't even know where he placed in this).
He went completely unbeaten till he met MVP though and placed third behind mvp and nestea and he was actually the only person in that tournament to take a game off MVP in Gainward
ANYWAY, I understand the post previous to that one. I hadn't even thought about Rainbow, I'm just slightly bitter because I'm a big MKP fanboy! Still happy I'll get to see more Huk/Mvp action though
On February 21 2011 00:19 strongandbig wrote: I don't think people have commented enough on how awesome it is that every single invited Korean player accepted. Really shows the strength of the foreigner scene in sc2.
Let's just hope it doesn't go down like the FXO tournament where half the players didn't show up.
On February 21 2011 00:19 strongandbig wrote: I don't think people have commented enough on how awesome it is that every single invited Korean player accepted. Really shows the strength of the foreigner scene in sc2.
Let's just hope it doesn't go down like the FXO tournament where half the players didn't show up.
the only koreans who didn't show up were all the prime players, because they had a PM/AM confusion.
On February 20 2011 13:07 StarBrift wrote: SICK terran line up. Best possible invites. TSL will be awesome.
How is it the best possible lineup? 3 out of 5 of these terrans can be replaced..
I'm just glad MVP is coming.
On February 20 2011 12:40 bearhug wrote:
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
Even prior to Season 4 MKP performed better than 4 out of 5 terrans on that list(all but Jinro), so that explanation is kind of stupid. Anyway, it's final so it doesn't matter.
By the same reasoning we should have invited Rainbow since he placed 2nd in S1 and made the semifinals in S2. Further, Rainbow had more consistent results than MKP over the first season three seasons of GSL so we should have invited Rainbow over MKP and loner . You don't hear people calling for Rainbow to be invited now do you? The primary reason MKP has so much support is because he made a second final - something we could never have anticipated.
He's pretty much the Terran revolutionist. I wasn't sold on MarineKing but... bit by bit he showed some remarkable macro talent. Incredibly offensive, all over the map, very skillful and elegant like a soccer player. Especially those macro games he played vs Jinro with the hyper-aggressive bio. To be fair, MVP came out of nowhere as well. Just a BW pro that I've never heard of switched over and is dominating(considering I've followed BW for ages, and still do now.)
On February 20 2011 17:10 hmunkey wrote: I personally think MKP should have been invited even if he didn't make a second GSL finals based on his performance in non-GSL tournaments, but I guess I can understand the rationale for leaving him out. What I disagree with is Loner's invite -- it seems like pandering to the Chinese community more than anything else.
What non-GSL tournaments are these? Gainward where he got stomped by MVP? Gisado where he didn't shine either? Ygosu invite? (i don't even know where he placed in this).
He placed 3rd in the Gainward, behind MVP & Nestea. In his defense, everyone is getting stomped by MVP. Now I'm actually surprised with all this higher-up hate of MKP. Jinro called the hit out on him, when he beat him in GSL? Mafiarolled ^^
On February 20 2011 13:07 StarBrift wrote: SICK terran line up. Best possible invites. TSL will be awesome.
How is it the best possible lineup? 3 out of 5 of these terrans can be replaced..
I'm just glad MVP is coming.
On February 20 2011 12:40 bearhug wrote:
On February 20 2011 08:41 THM wrote: Everything is great, Nada, Boxer.. Yeah!
But COME on guys, no Foxer Seriously??? Loner over foxer = TT. So what if he's chinese? Moonglade is australian but he wasn't invited right? Why? Yeah cause he's not good enogh.. same should've been for Loner. I thought invites were for the best players, not for players from certain countries
Sadface =_=
We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance. While these events may not have changed the invite list at the end of the day, they were never present in our discussions since they had not happened yet.
Even prior to Season 4 MKP performed better than 4 out of 5 terrans on that list(all but Jinro), so that explanation is kind of stupid. Anyway, it's final so it doesn't matter.
By the same reasoning we should have invited Rainbow since he placed 2nd in S1 and made the semifinals in S2. Further, Rainbow had more consistent results than MKP over the first season three seasons of GSL so we should have invited Rainbow over MKP and loner . You don't hear people calling for Rainbow to be invited now do you? The primary reason MKP has so much support is because he made a second final - something we could never have anticipated.
He's pretty much the Terran revolutionist. I wasn't sold on MarineKing but... bit by bit he showed some remarkable macro talent. Incredibly offensive, all over the map, very skillful and elegant like a soccer player. Especially those macro games he played vs Jinro with the hyper-aggressive bio. To be fair, MVP came out of nowhere as well. Just a BW pro that I've never heard of switched over and is dominating(considering I've followed BW for ages, and still do now.)
On February 20 2011 17:10 hmunkey wrote: I personally think MKP should have been invited even if he didn't make a second GSL finals based on his performance in non-GSL tournaments, but I guess I can understand the rationale for leaving him out. What I disagree with is Loner's invite -- it seems like pandering to the Chinese community more than anything else.
What non-GSL tournaments are these? Gainward where he got stomped by MVP? Gisado where he didn't shine either? Ygosu invite? (i don't even know where he placed in this).
He placed 3rd in the Gainward, behind MVP & Nestea. In his defense, everyone is getting stomped by MVP. Now I'm actually surprised with all this higher-up hate of MKP. Jinro called the hit out on him, when he beat him in GSL? Mafiarolled ^^
There's no higher up hate of MKP. Simply that when we were sending out invites there was no reason to invite him, unless he ended up winning GSLS4 (which he didn't).
I really think marineking should've been considered more strongly even before season 4 began. A second place narrowly losing to fruitdealer and losing 3-1 to eventual champion MC in season 3 is nothing to sneeze at.
For the offline events he came in second to Kyrix in the all stars event and in the Gainward tournament made it to the semis and lost to MVP. Stomped by MVP, who hasnt been lately? Alsom he did manage to take a game?. Again, great results.
Not to mention his revolutionary and exciting style that he added even before season 4 had started. Great micro and unique strategies. He wasn't afraid to cheese, win with a timing attack, or turtle to win a long game.
He defeated Rainbow 4-1 head to head and showed better results than him in every GSL and offline event after GSL 1. Even a blind man could tell he was a far superior player at the time of the selctions and the selection of not choosing rainbow showed this.
And the last thing I wanted to mention were his contributions to the foreign community specifically this site are probably overlooked by many. If anyone is or was familar with the iccup who is who thread you know who Clare is. Clare was a progamer who played on the MBC Hero B team. He would go into the iccup thread and post replays to be analyzed. From this the replay sleuths could find match the hotkeys with the smurfs of many different pro players.
He provided hundreds of replays that entertained me and many others. He played games against Bisu, Idra other pros. Many people enjoyed watching the progamers he played against as well as watching his replays for entertainment value. Clare went on to become MarineKingPrime. I don't think any Korean pros provided replays like him and if they did surely not as many and this service was something that I don't think should be forgotten.
Did teamliquid make the wrong call not picking MarineKing? Maybe yes maybe no. In my opinion they made a mistake. If I had to pick a person to replace it would be Loner and if not him Genius. The Blizzcon results just dont weigh too heavily in my mind. I obviously understand the Liquid players can't be sent to Korea and then not invited to TSL even if some of their results don't even remotely compare to MarineKing's.
This is still going to be a great tournament and I am still going to watch and tell my friends to watch. Though when the announcement was made I have to say the tournament got a little less exciting for me.
This is the first truly global SC2 tournament with selections from literally the best players from all over the world and the only thing that people can think to talk about is if a single person X might be slightly more qualified than person Y. Honestly what a joke. I know you are just trying to make conversation but by quarreling over whether 1 person qualified over another in a THIRTY TWO person tournament makes it sound like you are forgetting how awesome such a tournament is to begin with. I'm just happy that this tournament is even happening; it's certainly going to make for some amazing starcraft matches
People need to stop whining so much! It's not like this is the last tournament ever. This is just the first of many tournaments with such a diverse line-up. It's going to be AMAZINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!! =D=D=D=DXDXD=D=D=DXDXDX
This invites look sick, and it's nice to see the rationale behind them too. Good selections!
I would've liked to see TheStC invited, but that's because I'm a huge fanboy. I know he hasn't done much to be notable recently, but I think he's just a beastly player. :p
I understand that there are reasons why he isn`t invited but I don`t like this reason. I respect your decision, since its your tournament and you certainly chose what you thought was best.
However, I will point out that Loner has no fucking right to be there if we are taking raw skill into account and nothing else. Loner`s invitation has little to do with his skill. Almost all of the Code S terrans are better than him, as well as many Code A terrans. Basicly the only way to explain this invitation is to realize that Loner is from China.
. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite.
This is not bad of an achievement but in comparision to a player like MarineKingPrime its pitiful, pathetic, to the degree of not even being worth mentioning.
I said that I respect your choice but I will repeat - I don`t like it.
On February 21 2011 04:29 Zorgaz wrote: You guys should focus on all the great invites instead of the ''Oh no i want MKP''.
Sure MKP is a really great player, but guys, we have Loner, Nada, Boxer, MVP, and JINRO!.
I see no reason to complain.
I don't think it's about wanting MKP in particular. The same argument can be made for Rainbow that he deserves to be invited more than the other Koreans. But just reading this thread tells you that Boxer and Nada are what most want to see. I guess Loner is for the handful of Chinese spectators....?
On February 21 2011 06:20 WGT-Baal wrote: Seeing Boxer and Nada in a TSL is paramount!
That is an awesome list of players!
No, this list is not awesome. Mvp, Jinro, Nada, Boxer part is awesome about this list of players. The rest is the exact opposite of awesome. The rest is a result of choosing a player for assets other than his skill and I don`t think this has anything to do with awesome.
On February 21 2011 05:14 UFO wrote: MarineKingPrime.
I understand that there are reasons why he isn`t invited but I don`t like this reason. I respect your decision, since its your tournament and you certainly chose what you thought was best.
However, I will point out that Loner has no fucking right to be there if we are taking raw skill into account and nothing else. Loner`s invitation has little to do with his skill. Almost all of the Code S terrans are better than him, as well as many Code A terrans. Basicly the only way to explain this invitation is to realize that Loner is from China.
. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite.
This is not bad of an achievement but in comparision to a player like MarineKingPrime its pitiful, pathetic, to the degree of not even being worth mentioning.
I said that I respect your choice but I will repeat - I don`t like it.
I agree with you to a certain degree. I do think it's about business.
It would be hard (and silly) for TL to say something like '' Although MKP is a more accomplished and skilled player than Loner or Genius, we simply cannot invite him due to some business reasons...'' It's fine and I respect the decision. But I really hope TL can admit this.
I really don't get how people can have the audacity to complain about the invites. This is better than awesome it is unbelievable, we have all GSL champions, 2 freaking LEGENDS along with pretty much every accomplished foreigner in Korea. Wow, just, WOW.
Mvp, Jinro, Nada, Boxer part is awesome about this list of players. The rest is the exact opposite of awesome. The rest is a result of choosing a player for assets other than his skill and I don`t think this has anything to do with awesome.
Also please understand the timing of the invites, these were organised and coordinated in early January since for tournaments like the TSL to be successful, you get on top of your invites early otherwise things turn into an organisational mess. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
What kind of a sick fucking reason is this ? You didn`t know that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance ? So what of it ? Even if he dropped out of Code S instead of making it to the finals - his achievements are still incomparably better to that of Loner`s, as well is his skills.
Also, MKP isn`t the only terran player who is better and more acomplished than Loner.
Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite.
What ? There are many Code S and even Code A terran players who have better acomplishments and skills than Loner.
You can add quite a few more players to this list, for example oGsTop but 5 players of this caliber are more than enough to prove the point.
Well, I don`t blame you for doing this, though. Its reasonable, you want a representative from China for obvious reasons. You are awesome for making this tournament anyways and you have the right to choose receivers of your invitations as you like.
What I`m against is this effrontery dishonesty about the reasons behind your invitation to Loner. [qupte]We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ? You are implying that the reason you didn`t invite MKP is his skills and achievements. Obviously this is a complete dishonesty. I mean, are you saying that Loner has better achievements and skills that MKP ?
MKP reached GSL Finals and qualified for Code S. Loner`s achievements look painfully pitiful in comparision to that. MKP didn`t need to make a second finals appearance, hell he could drop out of Code S and still he would remain vastly superior to Loner, as a Starcraft 2 player.
You would be better off not giving any explantation for choosing Loner than writing one as dishonest and insolent as this.
P.S I don`t mean to disrespect TL in any way or try to discredit TL. Nonetheless, I think this is a shortcoming that needs to be pointed out, there is no reason for being dishonest like that.
On February 21 2011 07:41 UFO wrote: What I`m against is this effrontery dishonesty about the reasons behind your invitation to Loner. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ? How does that justify not inviting MKP ? He reached GSL Finals and qualified for Code S. Loner`s achievements look painfully pitiful in comparision to that. MKP didn`t need to make a second finals appearance, hell he could drop out of Code S and still he would remain vastly superior to Loner, as a Starcraft 2 player.
You would be better off not giving any explantation for choosing Loner than writing one as dishonest and insolent as this.
P.S I don`t mean to disrespect TL in any way or try to discredit TL. Nonetheless, I think this is a shortcoming that needs to be pointed out.
I don't see how we were dishonest at all. We stated our reasons for Loner and why we didn't invite MKP. I don't think at any point did we say that Loner was better or more accomplished than MKP.
On February 21 2011 05:14 UFO wrote: MarineKingPrime.
I understand that there are reasons why he isn`t invited but I don`t like this reason. I respect your decision, since its your tournament and you certainly chose what you thought was best.
However, I will point out that Loner has no fucking right to be there if we are taking raw skill into account and nothing else. Loner`s invitation has little to do with his skill. Almost all of the Code S terrans are better than him, as well as many Code A terrans. Basicly the only way to explain this invitation is to realize that Loner is from China.
. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite.
This is not bad of an achievement but in comparision to a player like MarineKingPrime its pitiful, pathetic, to the degree of not even being worth mentioning.
I said that I respect your choice but I will repeat - I don`t like it.
I agree with you to a certain degree. I do think it's about business.
It would be hard (and silly) for TL to say something like '' Although MKP is a more accomplished and skilled player than Loner or Genius, we simply cannot invite him due to some business reasons...'' It's fine and I respect the decision. But I really hope TL can admit this.
Our decision was not motivated by business, rather fairness. Our decision to ban all of asia from the TSL qualifiers meant that a number of legitimately good players were now excluded from the TSL. xioat, macseed, loner etc were all denied the opportunity to compete in a tournament whose premise was to bring the international scene together in a single tournament. Taiwan was also excluded, but Sen was seeded from last season so served as a representative of that region. China, however, would remain unrepresented unless we invited someone. We looked at the achievements of the chinese players and decided that Loner would be the best representative from that region. We know there is a talent skew towards Korea, that's why there are so many Korean invites. But we still felt it was important to give representation to those communities we excluded - just the same as we did for Liquid` and Idra.
Further, the claims that MKP should have been invited anyway because of his results is nonsense. In January there were at least three candidates ahead of him, based purely off of results. There was MVP (winner of Gainward), Kyrix (winner of the all star invitational) and Rainbow (more consistent than MKP). After seeing how Rainbow had performed in successive seasons (from S1 to S2 to S3) we didn't feel that inviting someone based off a second place and a round of 8 finish was qualified enough. Obviously MKP went on to make a second final and that's great for him, but we can't turn back the clock and go through the invite discussion process again - nor could we retract the invites if we changed our minds.
At the end of the day MKP is only a contentious issue because he made a second final. If he had dipped out in the Ro8 or maybe the Ro4 there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage. I hope this helps you understand our decision, even if you don't like it. After all, we're all fans here - we all want to see the best tournament possible. We wouldn't have invited these players if we didn't think that they would give us an amazing tournament.
On February 21 2011 07:41 UFO wrote: What I`m against is this effrontery dishonesty about the reasons behind your invitation to Loner. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ? How does that justify not inviting MKP ? He reached GSL Finals and qualified for Code S. Loner`s achievements look painfully pitiful in comparision to that. MKP didn`t need to make a second finals appearance, hell he could drop out of Code S and still he would remain vastly superior to Loner, as a Starcraft 2 player.
You would be better off not giving any explantation for choosing Loner than writing one as dishonest and insolent as this.
P.S I don`t mean to disrespect TL in any way or try to discredit TL. Nonetheless, I think this is a shortcoming that needs to be pointed out.
I don't see how we were dishonest at all. We stated our reasons for Loner and why we didn't invite MKP. I don't think at any point did we say that Loner was better or more accomplished than MKP.
nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
This statement says that if you knew MKP would make 2nd finals appearance, you would invite him. In other words, you are saying that you were considering player`s achievements when choosing who will receive invitation.
Here you are dishonest because,obviously, you did not consider player`s achievements when you decided to give invitation to Loner instead of MKP.
On February 21 2011 05:14 UFO wrote: MarineKingPrime.
I understand that there are reasons why he isn`t invited but I don`t like this reason. I respect your decision, since its your tournament and you certainly chose what you thought was best.
However, I will point out that Loner has no fucking right to be there if we are taking raw skill into account and nothing else. Loner`s invitation has little to do with his skill. Almost all of the Code S terrans are better than him, as well as many Code A terrans. Basicly the only way to explain this invitation is to realize that Loner is from China.
. Loner was one of two Chinese invites to Blizzcon 2010 and finished in second place behind Genius. Loner also qualified for Code A in the GSL and was able to retain Code A status for this upcoming season. Based on this, we felt that Loner was the strongest representative from China and thus received an invite.
This is not bad of an achievement but in comparision to a player like MarineKingPrime its pitiful, pathetic, to the degree of not even being worth mentioning.
I said that I respect your choice but I will repeat - I don`t like it.
I agree with you to a certain degree. I do think it's about business.
It would be hard (and silly) for TL to say something like '' Although MKP is a more accomplished and skilled player than Loner or Genius, we simply cannot invite him due to some business reasons...'' It's fine and I respect the decision. But I really hope TL can admit this.
Our decision was not motivated by business, rather fairness. Our decision to ban all of asia from the TSL qualifiers meant that a number of legitimately good players were now excluded from the TSL. xioat, macseed, loner etc were all denied the opportunity to compete in a tournament whose premise was to bring the international scene together in a single tournament. Taiwan was also excluded, but Sen was seeded from last season so served as a representative of that region. China, however, would remain unrepresented unless we invited someone. We looked at the achievements of the chinese players and decided that Loner would be the best representative from that region. We know there is a talent skew towards Korea, that's why there are so many Korean invites. But we still felt it was important to give representation to those communities we excluded - just the same as we did for Liquid` and Idra.
Further, the claims that MKP should have been invited anyway because of his results is nonsense. In January there were at least three candidates ahead of him, based purely off of results. There was MVP (winner of Gainward), Kyrix (winner of the all star invitational) and Rainbow (more consistent than MKP). After seeing how Rainbow had performed in successive seasons (from S1 to S2 to S3) we didn't feel that inviting someone based off a second place and a round of 8 finish was qualified enough. Obviously MKP went on to make a second final and that's great for him, but we can't turn back the clock and go through the invite discussion process again - nor could we retract the invites if we changed our minds.
At the end of the day MKP is only a contentious issue because he made a second final. If he had dipped out in the Ro8 or maybe the Ro4 there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage. I hope this helps you understand our decision, even if you don't like it. After all, we're all fans here - we all want to see the best tournament possible. We wouldn't have invited these players if we didn't think that they would give us an amazing tournament.
This isn`t fairness, these are reasons related to making this tournament world-wide, instead of Korean-wide.
If this was fairness, you would invite almost only Koreans, with an exception of Idra and Jinro. No other foreigner deserves a spot for his achievements because they are all vastly inferior to the achievements of Korean players.
This is what you are dishonest about.
After seeing how Rainbow had performed in successive seasons (from S1 to S2 to S3) we didn't feel that inviting someone based off a second place and a round of 8 finish was qualified enough.
Well, thats still far better than Loner`s results. So don`t say that you invited Loner because of his skills. His skills have NOTHING to do with his invitation. Had he been a Korean, there is no way he would get an invitation.
P.S I`m sorry. I don`t know why I suddenly became so obsessed with accusing someone of dishonesty. I sincerely think you are a little bit dishonest about Loner`s invitation but I don`t why I try so hard to prove it, as it doesn`t matter anyways and its not like it ruins the tournament.
On February 21 2011 07:41 UFO wrote: What I`m against is this effrontery dishonesty about the reasons behind your invitation to Loner. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ? How does that justify not inviting MKP ? He reached GSL Finals and qualified for Code S. Loner`s achievements look painfully pitiful in comparision to that. MKP didn`t need to make a second finals appearance, hell he could drop out of Code S and still he would remain vastly superior to Loner, as a Starcraft 2 player.
You would be better off not giving any explantation for choosing Loner than writing one as dishonest and insolent as this.
P.S I don`t mean to disrespect TL in any way or try to discredit TL. Nonetheless, I think this is a shortcoming that needs to be pointed out.
I don't see how we were dishonest at all. We stated our reasons for Loner and why we didn't invite MKP. I don't think at any point did we say that Loner was better or more accomplished than MKP.
nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
This statement says that if you knew MKP would make 2nd finals appearance, you would invite him. In other words, you are saying that you were considering player`s achievements when choosing who will receive invitation.
Here you are dishonest because,obviously, you did not consider player`s achievements when you decided to give invitation to Loner instead of MKP.
What we're saying is that during the decision making process we didn't have all the information that we do now. A player who has made two finals obviously makes a significantly stronger case than a player who has made one. Loner still probably would have been invited anyway, but maybe one of our other Korean invites would have been different; it's impossible to say because that discussion never took place.
Let me make it very clear. This isn't about MKP over Loner at all. Loner was always going to be invited (or rather, a representative from China). This is about MKP over the other Korean invites.
If this was fairness, you would invite almost only Koreans, with an exception of Idra and Jinro. No other foreigner deserves a spot for his achievements because they are all vastly inferior to the achievements of Korean players.
We removed their ability to qualify after they sacrificed everything to pursue their dream of being the best they can be. How is that fair?
On February 21 2011 07:41 UFO wrote: What I`m against is this effrontery dishonesty about the reasons behind your invitation to Loner. We had no idea that Moonglade would be travelling to Korea, nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ? How does that justify not inviting MKP ? He reached GSL Finals and qualified for Code S. Loner`s achievements look painfully pitiful in comparision to that. MKP didn`t need to make a second finals appearance, hell he could drop out of Code S and still he would remain vastly superior to Loner, as a Starcraft 2 player.
You would be better off not giving any explantation for choosing Loner than writing one as dishonest and insolent as this.
P.S I don`t mean to disrespect TL in any way or try to discredit TL. Nonetheless, I think this is a shortcoming that needs to be pointed out.
I don't see how we were dishonest at all. We stated our reasons for Loner and why we didn't invite MKP. I don't think at any point did we say that Loner was better or more accomplished than MKP.
nor that MarineKingPrime would make a second finals appearance.
This statement says that if you knew MKP would make 2nd finals appearance, you would invite him. In other words, you are saying that you were considering player`s achievements when choosing who will receive invitation.
Here you are dishonest because,obviously, you did not consider player`s achievements when you decided to give invitation to Loner instead of MKP.
Reading comprehension bro. I personally thought Plexa's explanation was already pretty darn clear and I only skimmed it.
Nowhere did they ever say that Loner>MKP. The number one reason why they chose Loner is because China needs a representative in the TSL3 and Loner is the best player from China. A player from China was going to be invited to TSL3 no matter what out of fairness for the lack of qualifiers in Asia. It just so happened that at that moment, Loner was the best player from China.
The only reason why MKP wasn't invited was because he's outmatched by the other Korean players in consideration.
The justification of the invitation of Loner and the lack of an invitation for MKP are independent events which have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
damn tsl is going to be awesome. From the qualifiers to the crazy invite lists. Can't wait for this thing to finally kick off. Great list btw. for the terran's.
I think your rationale for selecting the invitees was excellent; good job!
I think pretty much all of these players deserve to be in TSL3 on skill alone, so it's hard for me to choose a favorite invite based on that and on the fact that I'm a pretty big fan of a lot of those players (other than Genius, who, to be frank, I really dislike because of his appallingly bad manner).
However, if I had to choose one, I'd say BoxeR. Why? Well, some people seem to be writing him off a bit since, if I recall correctly, NaDa has been slightly outperforming him in the GSL. Even ignoring his illustrious history (and the first episode of BoxeR's Wings that made me love him all the more), BoxeR is a great invite to help meld BW and SC2 along with encouraging more long-term eSports careers because of how old he is. His skill alone could get him in TSL3, but he just adds so much to the package that he has to be there.
I say this partly because, as someone who didn't really follow the pro scene while I dabbled in BW, I didn't experience the epicness of BW eSport. I watched the first two matches of the MSL final on Friday and finally got a sense of how amazing it was. Even never having watched and not really knowing who the guys playing were, I got the same feeling as watching a "normal" sport with how established it was and how much fanfare there was around that. I want that in SC2. I want to experience that.
Edit: Please note, my friends, that this is supposed to be an international tournament for a reason. If you think that Loner shouldn't have been invited then you should also agree that there shouldn't have been NA or EU qualifiers but, rather, a huge free-for-all over all of the regions. You have to dispute the entire qualification process, invite or not, in order to dispute Loner's invitation. I think that TL went in the right direction with this.
On February 21 2011 09:01 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: Regardlesss of the reasons (excuses), MarineKing's absence from the event is a major blunder. You invited Haypro, but not MarineKing? That's madness.
TLAF-Liquid`HayprO
Yeah, inviting a member of TeamLiquid to the TeamLiquid StarLeague, what a travesty.
wow this is exactly like the zerg invites thread. its like 30% of the posts are whine posts about the invites (or lack of invites) its like winning a million dollars then whining that it wasnt $50k more
Anyway, Plexa's last post actually thoroughly explains it all(better than his previous explanations imo) so I don't know how anyone can still argue with that. I'm sure if another TSL happens MKP will be invited if he keeps playing the way he is!
On February 21 2011 09:01 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: Regardlesss of the reasons (excuses), MarineKing's absence from the event is a major blunder. You invited Haypro, but not MarineKing? That's madness.
TLAF-Liquid`HayprO
Yeah, inviting a member of TeamLiquid to the TeamLiquid StarLeague, what a travesty.
Honestly, where do you people come from?
This makes no sense. If he's invited because he's on TeamLiquid, why does TLO have to qualify??? You might as well have posted All Team Liquid members, plus NA and EU qualifiers, plus Korean invites. I didn't think that's what you were going for.
On February 21 2011 09:01 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: Regardlesss of the reasons (excuses), MarineKing's absence from the event is a major blunder. You invited Haypro, but not MarineKing? That's madness.
TLAF-Liquid`HayprO
Yeah, inviting a member of TeamLiquid to the TeamLiquid StarLeague, what a travesty.
Honestly, where do you people come from?
This makes no sense. If he's invited because he's on TeamLiquid, why does TLO have to qualify??? You might as well have posted All Team Liquid members, plus NA and EU qualifiers, plus Korean invites. I didn't think that's what you were going for.
Because he is in Korea and can't play in the qualifiers...
This is crazy.. lol how are people not so damn excited for all this incredible invites, but instead focus on "No MKP" .. in nice words - who cares!?
Maybe he was deserving maybe he isn't - the decision has been explained; we are getting a kick ass tournament, with the best players around the world fitted into a finite bracket and a ridiculous prize pool.. and people are complaining that they feel someone deserving wasn't invited?
This tournament is going to be flat out ridiculously awesome with or without MKP or Tester.. or any other pro that wasn't invited.. So excited for this tournament - you cannot deny these invites are simply ridiculous!
no MKP is very dissapointing he is prob top 3 best Terran right now and deff. deserved a invite.. i understand the reason but its still not complete without him solid line up however; The Zerg invites were spot on and Toss could have seen one replacement same for Terran (MKP over Loner)
Damn you all bunch of angry nerdz, how can you whine because MKP is not invited... Open your wtf eyes right and see: Nada and Boxer in TSL ? MKP is nothing, Nada and Boxer are like the super hype machine. The difference between having MKP and Boomer and having Nada Boxer is like having two great player on one hand and having epicness coming to your door on the other hand.
Crazy ridiculous madly good invite list. Compare the people playing in this TSL with the people in TSL2. Sure all the best foreigners were there in TSL2, but now it is also a substantial chunk of the Korean top playing.
Considering the difficulty of having proper qualifiers amongst the different servers, and considering that the list of EU/NA players is also not 100% what would have been made based on conventional wisdom, TSL 3 promises to be the best SC2 tournament yet.
So stoked for this tournament. And if you are not, you prob were not around for the environment of BW TSL2. This is f*in crazy good. Ask yourself if you are more stoked for GSL5 or for this, you know the answer.
I thought we wanted to invite the best terran fplayers, not by popularity =l
Loner just got 2-0'd in code A -.- and although Boxer and Nada are the two legends of e-sports and they're very successful in sc2 as well, neither are as good as MKP. MKP is a TOP 3 terran.
I guess I'm just really disappointed. I really wanted to see the foreigners against MKP and see how they dealt with his creativeness and his superb marine micro.
I know there are offered excuses for MarineKing's absence. But its a little sad, not having him in this competition diminishes the event a little in my opinion.
Honestly Loner isn't a very good 5th pick. He'd be a good like, 8th pick or so, just considering he's the only Chinese player people heard of, but I wouldn't even call him the set Chinese player. Anyways nobody deserved this invite more than MKP. They might not have heard that MKP had a second finals appearance, but like 99% of the community knew and predicted that he would, how could the inviters not have realized this? Anyways everyone else is good. Looking forward to a nice tourney!
Perfect invite list, this tournament is going to be the best! I don't like waking up at weird times to watch GSL for free and I don't want to pay the fee so I'm glad that you guys are providing the best FREE tournament to date <3 TL
I think Jinro and most pros active in Korea agree that XiaoT is by far the best Chinese player, but this guy is notorious for declining invites (declined Code A invite).
XiaoT himself thinks Loner is pretty mediocre and talks about stomping code s finalists on ladder.
About the best terran line-up i could possibly think of excluding loner just because i dont know him that well, considering he is like the solo chinese player i guess that's pretty cool. THE DOMINION WILL CRUSH!
On February 22 2011 05:07 chenchen wrote: I think Jinro and most pros active in Korea agree that XiaoT is by far the best Chinese player, but this guy is notorious for declining invites (declined Code A invite).
XiaoT himself thinks Loner is pretty mediocre and talks about stomping code s finalists on ladder.
Agreed. XiaoT is the best, but he didn't even play IEM. I'm questioning whether or not ge even wants to play professionally... I'm surprised Loner won IEM Asia though, he pulled off wins vs ppl who beat him several times in other tournaments. Anyways XiaoT has lost silly games just due to playing awful, so I don't think he has a right to have such opinions over players more consistent than he.
On February 22 2011 05:07 chenchen wrote: I think Jinro and most pros active in Korea agree that XiaoT is by far the best Chinese player, but this guy is notorious for declining invites (declined Code A invite).
XiaoT himself thinks Loner is pretty mediocre and talks about stomping code s finalists on ladder.
Agreed. XiaoT is the best, but he didn't even play IEM. I'm questioning whether or not ge even wants to play professionally... I'm surprised Loner won IEM Asia though, he pulled off wins vs ppl who beat him several times in other tournaments. Anyways XiaoT has lost silly games just due to playing awful, so I don't think he has a right to have such opinions over players more consistent than he.
MoonGlage won IEM asia beating Lover in final 3-1 if im not mistaken
Really, Terran deserves more than 5 invites... I don't critisize these invites, everyone on that list has to be in this tournament. These 5 players are great choices. But nobody can deny that MKP - after MVP - is the most accomplished Terran so far. He has great skills and has a unique style. All in all it is very sad, that he didn't recieve an invite.
Same problem comes up with Zerg. I think, if Nada recieves an invitation, Julyzerg also has to recieve one.
On February 21 2011 19:36 Refreshe wrote: I thought we wanted to invite the best terran fplayers, not by popularity =l
Loner just got 2-0'd in code A -.- and although Boxer and Nada are the two legends of e-sports and they're very successful in sc2 as well, neither are as good as MKP. MKP is a TOP 3 terran.
I guess I'm just really disappointed. I really wanted to see the foreigners against MKP and see how they dealt with his creativeness and his superb marine micro.
You'll have just as much fun watching Mvp taking the foreigners back to school.
On February 23 2011 09:30 supersoft wrote: Really, Terran deserves more than 5 invites... I don't critisize these invites, everyone on that list has to be in this tournament. These 5 players are great choices. But nobody can deny that MKP - after MVP - is the most accomplished Terran so far. He has great skills and has a unique style. All in all it is very sad, that he didn't recieve an invite.
Same problem comes up with Zerg. I think, if Nada recieves an invitation, Julyzerg also has to recieve one.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/TSL3_Logo_Banner_1.png){kind=logo}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/Tinvite/t1.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/Tinvite/invite0331_mvp.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/disciple/TSL3/loner1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/Tinvite/invite0335_jinro.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/disciple/TSL3/nada1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/Tinvite/invite0334_boxer.jpg)
) so all the random guys (no offence here) get kicked out by the invited players we all love so much 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QrtfZ.png)
