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Trias
Netherlands53 Posts
On December 14 2009 06:13 HnR)Insane wrote: People were allowed to smurf, as long as they got the OK from us first. In the previous TSL someone (Skew? I forget who) did do that. Of the top 16, I think ret (TSL.Dezmund) and Skew (BoXeRz) were playing on assigned smurfs, if I recall correctly. | ||
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datscilly
United States528 Posts
On December 13 2009 21:18 MaD4tehwin wrote: so in numbers about 23% of top48 players cheated, kinda sad. A better way to think of it is, that out of all the players that cheated, 9 got into the top48. + Show Spoiler + Because the players who cheated weren't actually top48. | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
 ).I must say that it's a very strong reaction for Phil, and I certainly do not feel that way myself. ReasoN admits that what he did was bad. If anything, his posts helps us understand the motives behind him doing this abuse, even if he is just posting out of frustration. I'm not sure TSL admins could really do anything about the problem either, and as I explained earlier I think it's more a matter of the mentality that people show. Rather than trying to make excuses or blindly criticize the admins, I see ReasoN's post as him venting his frustration. Its true that he doesn't seem very apologetic, but as he explained, it seems that he justified the abuse to himself due to how things played out. Just like Dimaga seems clueless about the effects and importance of his actions (unless it's just bad English), ReasoN's due seem to feel any heavy guilt, and therefore prioritizes talking about what he finds the most important topics. It's like I explained earlier, people don't take online events seriously. It's something else you can sense and feel that there are "real" people involved. I don't think it's the love for a sport that means that keeps most ahtletes from taking sterioids (example used someone earlier in the topic), it's the social aspect; the people. | ||
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Gonozal
Germany320 Posts
Goody is one a well mannerd known guy and just cuz of those abusers he wont play TSL. Thats what makes me sick and i think thats why phil got so much anger... | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On December 14 2009 07:17 Asjo wrote: GreEny K, Puhil is talking to ReasoN, as you would see in the top of the post (I assume you are connecting the name with the word ).I must say that it's a very strong reaction for Phil, and I certainly do not feel that way myself. ReasoN admits that what he did was bad. If anything, his posts helps us understand the motives behind him doing this abuse, even if he is just posting out of frustration. I'm not sure TSL admins could really do anything about the problem either, and as I explained earlier I think it's more a matter of the mentality that people show. Rather than trying to make excuses or blindly criticize the admins, I see ReasoN's post as him venting his frustration. Its true that he doesn't seem very apologetic, but as he explained, it seems that he justified the abuse to himself due to how things played out. Just like Dimaga seems clueless about the effects and importance of his actions (unless it's just bad English), ReasoN's due seem to feel any heavy guilt, and therefore prioritizes talking about what he finds the most important topics. It's like I explained earlier, people don't take online events seriously. It's something else you can sense and feel that there are "real" people involved. I don't think it's the love for a sport that means that keeps most ahtletes from taking sterioids (example used someone earlier in the topic), it's the social aspect; the people. I am pretty sure that Dimaga was fully aware that he was doing something illegal and knew of the concequences it could have. He might be an abuser, but someone who plays SC on that level definitely is intelligent enough to know this. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28597 Posts
On December 14 2009 02:02 dshsdhk wrote: Well, I'm ReasoN and I'm posting to clarify one thing, that TSL2 could have been one of the best online events of all time, if there weren't some extremely idiot rules, like forbidding smurfs, obviously the talented and famous players had a disvantage , especially those who were able to get excellent stats, and we, that did that, were praticaly dodged and ignored of the ladder, just in the most important fase (B+, A- above), with that we were unable or delayed pretty bad of getting a better rank (i didnt have 6hours per day to find people to play), and our unique solution would be playing with koreans (and that woudlnt be fair). After spending hours trying to get games and being dodged and ignored by 99% of players, we got really in despair, and without thinking of the consequences we try to get some wins in a irregular way, which really hasn't changed anything in my situation (and the other tops that did the same). I even had classified myself by my own merits even without those wins. Dont get me wrong, im not saying that what we did was right, we did shit, but in my point of view, many of the other players had done too, like avoiding players with good stats, or spamming games on just one matchup like i saw some guys doing. (B+ A- only zerg msg for example...) F91, Yosh, A2, Dimaga, ReasoN, Sarens This list shows the total TSL2 fail in these requirements, players in this category with 80%++ win percentage with indisputable level were obligated to cheat for moving up in rank, because they were getting hard time to find games, u guys should reflect on what happend in this TSL2, and improve the rules for the next one, im retired since 2007 and i just came back to play this last tournament before quit this game definitely, sad that this shit had to happen, at least i had great time beating some players that are pretty active and who thinks that they are TOPS, and then they get raped by a retired player, i can quit this game satisfacted, peace all. TSL2 = DODGER LADDER, congrats to the dodgers, they succeeded. you are a retarded fucking clown. considering how you have been "retired" for "years" (that is, playing slightly less for a while), your fame is not really all that great anymore - and it wasn't up on par with players like say, mondragon, ret, idra, white-ra before either. yet, these players all legitimately managed to get in the top 12. mondragon through playing nonkoreans (he had no problems getting games despite being considered much better than you, and much more famous), the others through playing koreans. your post is riddled with moronic exaggerations, in fact the only aspect of your post with any semblance of truth to it is this : "Dont get me wrong, im not saying that what we did was right, we did shit," - and here you somehow manage to greatly understate your wrongdoings. you would have qualified legitimately but then you abuse to get yourself disqualified. this isn't "doing shit", this is being a top class retard. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
On December 14 2009 07:28 Gonozal wrote: Reason is one of those guys who are responsible for the shit happens to Goody. Goody is one a well mannerd known guy and just cuz of those abusers he wont play TSL. Thats what makes me sick and i think thats why phil got so much anger... Are you referring to the fact that Goody played even though he would have had enough points? And that Goody then lost some games as reset? And you are blaming ReasoN for this due to the fact that he had more points? First off, that seems kind of speculative. If the 11 players who abused for a few matches had not done this, they might have played straight up and gotten the points that way instead. Also, if they had not gotten the points, someone else might have instead. It's a very strange "what if" scenario to try to set up. The fact remains that if Goody had not reset and had kept on playing, he would likely have qualified. Second off, I don't like that fact the it's the people with the right amount of points who should qualify. Obviously, it's the people who are best would ideally qualify. So, if people are able to keep playing and still be on top of the ladder, they are good enough, and therefore they qualify. I don't really like that people have to be so tactical about it, stopping at a specific level for the risk that they might not do well enough if they keep on playing. If they didn't do well enough, they weren't good enough. So, I think you can be mad at them just because you think their acts is despicable. Honestly, though, there is not much point in being made at them because another player played an lost. That's fair and square. | ||
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
On December 14 2009 07:33 spinesheath wrote: I am pretty sure that Dimaga was fully aware that he was doing something illegal and knew of the concequences it could have. He might be an abuser, but someone who plays SC on that level definitely is intelligent enough to know this. I guess I was not very clear in that statement. When I talked about the implication of what he was doing, I didn't mean breaking the rules. I mean the fact that it is something significant that affects him as well as all of the people following and organizing the event. According to what mOrrow says, it sounds like he doesn't understand it and all, and only thinks about what it means to him, which seems to be simply the inability to continue in the tournament. As said, though, it might just be his English langauge playing a trick on him. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
Imagine if they'd investigated the first TSL like this one! Probably would've been at least as many DQs | ||
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vRoOk
United States1024 Posts
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
Idra made first without cheating, and he made it playing koreans Long story short, for ppl who were being "ladder dodged", you had solutions not involving cheating, contacting tl would b the best, but also, you could have simply played koreans who have no idea who you are. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
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vRoOk
United States1024 Posts
On December 14 2009 07:51 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Its only a matter of time until artosis sits down with ret & idra to talk about the issue, right ? LOL then IdrA can slam Stylish and Ret can be like "I just wanted a nice good tourny" | ||
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
On December 14 2009 07:51 gk_ender wrote: simpleset answer of them all, too all the cheaters who were being "ladder dodged" Idra made first without cheating, and he made it playing koreans Long story short, for ppl who were being "ladder dodged", you had solutions not involving cheating, contacting tl would b the best, but also, you could have simply played koreans who have no idea who you are. You don't really expect them to compare themselves with IdrA, do you? They surely aren't do that either, they are comparing themselves to weaker players who made it into the top48 by dodging. Idra, White-Ra and ret are players of another caliber, active players with time for the game, who are leading the foreign scene. They are not complaining about having to face tougher competition that the rest of the ladder because they can deal with it. And if they were complaining, IdrA and ret were allowed to play as the only people from Korea, so this exception already means that they are getting special treatment. I'm not saying they are justified in what they did, just that it's a bad comparison and argument. | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
Having said this, it seems like there was a lot more race and map 'dodging' than player dodging in this ladder. It's hard to take anyone seriously about this when someone like Mondragon doesn't smurf and still makes the top 12. I mean, when he plays a ZvP it has to be the absolute most anyone in this tournament is affected by not smurfing. And yet, he still managed to play plenty of ZvPs against top foreign protosses. Imagine that. | ||
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Gann1
United States1575 Posts
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