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On December 14 2009 20:28 .risingdragoon wrote:
Games to me are just circumstances. Even for everyone with the skill to compete, some days you don't got the fine control so you do an all-in, then people are angry cus they feel cheated.
Feeling cheated does not justify cheating. You are evading what I would consider a proper justification. This might be because I can't conceive of a legitimate justification, but you seem to be able to. I wish you could articulate that.
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look, for last time cheating is not justified goddamnit, but it happens. it's a fact. it's sad when you're perfectly capable of competing had you had the amenities of some other player, even if just so slightly. that's all I said. get your mind around that.
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I hear you there.
It's not 'all you said' though. You said that everyone has cheated, yourself included. You made confusing allusions to hip hop artists. Forgive me for the confusion, but I think your goofy posts are to blame.
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@SirKibbleX
I dont agree with you about the ladder stage being there to select the "best" players meaning the ones who achieved most so far, which you seem to do. You blame the system to not fullill your wishes neglecting your wishes might not be the ones of everyone.
A ladder imho is designed to produce a good mix of established players and coming ones. The ladder getting the chance to take the place of a possibly stronger player by being still hungry and thus possibly more dedicated than some old stars.
In PL do not always play the best, but sometimes young ones are given the chance to rise. You and others might not like this or see it this way - this does however not give em the right to cheat! The rules are not their to make!
@risingdragoon
This world and especially human kind might not be perfect, but I refuse to accept humanities faults are to be accepted in a civilized community!
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On December 13 2009 11:36 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 10:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
just to bounce off of naz's posts:
Online reputation is HUGE. More accurately, how you are known as a gamer is huge.. this won't ruin A2's career but it will certainly put a dampener on it. More of this kind of stuff and he will be out of the community almost entirely.. which is hugely retarded given his abilities.
As I said from the very beginning.. this amount of cash will surface some REALLY strange and crazy things. A2, F91, Pomi? And we aren't done yet. people are idiots.
i think you're onto something
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Some of this shit is ridiculous. Anyone - ANYONE - defending F91 has lost all possible perspective. I personally have nothing against this guy. I am a Zerg fanatic myself, and I love all foreigner Zerg. But, really, let's consider the situation he's in with regards to TSL:
He's Chinese and was flying to Taiwan as a loophole to be allowed to participate in the 'real TSL'. He's effectively playing outside the rules of the 'real TSL' in order to make it up the ladder. You can argue semantics and rules and whatnot, but this really breaks the spirit of the TSL imo. Not just because he's possibly denying a spot to someone who is not at all in any kind of gray area with regards to eligibility, but because of the reasons that Ret put forth.
Now I don't 100% agree with Ret's attitude, but in this case, he is definitely right. The Chinese community and the 'other' foreign community are like two different communities altogether. I personally think that allowing F91 to play in this tournament would have been for the greater good with regards to the foreigner community - not just because the guy is an awesome player and has a lot to bring to the table, but also because his involvement could get other Chinese players and the Chinese community as a whole to 'open up' to TL and the wider SC foreigner community (and of course the same thing happens with TL opening up to the Chinese community).
But practically speaking, the two communities, as of now, are basically separate entities. The other concern, which is NOT a minor concern, is lag. You can't have an epic match with lag, no matter the players.
Anyway, F91 - He's in a rough spot and has to get top 12 in order to not have a timing conflict with some other tournament (see what I did there?). I guess he'll just have to drop participation in that tournament.
Or maybe not. Well F91 surely can make top 12 by just doing his best right? Unfortunately, he didn't. He made his decision. He obviously considered the Chinese tournament to be of equal or greater value in comparison to the TSL. Did he cheat in the Chinese tournament as well? My guess is that he didn't. Unfortunately, it seems like he didn't take the TSL seriously enough to NOT CHEAT in it.
What he did was really unforgivable for so many reasons. Someone in his particular position really ought to be aware of the gravity of their situation. He is a Chinese player playing in a decidedly non-Chinese tournament - an act which could possibly bridge both communities in some way. But instead of setting an example for non-Chinese tournaments, he abuses the ladder. No matter your personal feelings about this guy beforehand, you simply cannot rationalize any regret over him being booted. What he did could scar future attempts at bridging the foreigner communities - not to mention that he disrespected the most prestigious foreigner tournament at the same time.
Anyone who defends any actions by ladder abusers is just pissing on the TSL and, by extension, the foreigner community in general. This is a horrible thing too, since there are so many awesome members in this community.
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On December 17 2009 11:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
Some of this shit is ridiculous. Anyone - ANYONE - defending F91 has lost all possible perspective. I personally have nothing against this guy. I am a Zerg fanatic myself, and I love all foreigner Zerg. But, really, let's consider the situation he's in with regards to TSL:
He's Chinese and was flying to Taiwan as a loophole to be allowed to participate in the 'real TSL'. He's effectively playing outside the rules of the 'real TSL' in order to make it up the ladder. You can argue semantics and rules and whatnot, but this really breaks the spirit of the TSL imo. Not just because he's possibly denying a spot to someone who is not at all in any kind of gray area with regards to eligibility, but because of the reasons that Ret put forth.
Now I don't 100% agree with Ret's attitude, but in this case, he is definitely right. The Chinese community and the 'other' foreign community are like two different communities altogether. I personally think that allowing F91 to play in this tournament would have been for the greater good with regards to the foreigner community - not just because the guy is an awesome player and has a lot to bring to the table, but also because his involvement could get other Chinese players and the Chinese community as a whole to 'open up' to TL and the wider SC foreigner community (and of course the same thing happens with TL opening up to the Chinese community).
But practically speaking, the two communities, as of now, are basically separate entities. The other concern, which is NOT a minor concern, is lag. You can't have an epic match with lag, no matter the players.
Anyway, F91 - He's in a rough spot and has to get top 12 in order to not have a timing conflict with some other tournament (see what I did there?). I guess he'll just have to drop participation in that tournament.
Or maybe not. Well F91 surely can make top 12 by just doing his best right? Unfortunately, he didn't. He made his decision. He obviously considered the Chinese tournament to be of equal or greater value in comparison to the TSL. Did he cheat in the Chinese tournament as well? My guess is that he didn't. Unfortunately, it seems like he didn't take the TSL seriously enough to NOT CHEAT in it.
What he did was really unforgivable for so many reasons. Someone in his particular position really ought to be aware of the gravity of their situation. He is a Chinese player playing in a decidedly non-Chinese tournament - an act which could possibly bridge both communities in some way. But instead of setting an example for non-Chinese tournaments, he abuses the ladder. No matter your personal feelings about this guy beforehand, you simply cannot rationalize any regret over him being booted. What he did could scar future attempts at bridging the foreigner communities - not to mention that he disrespected the most prestigious foreigner tournament at the same time.
Anyone who defends any actions by ladder abusers is just pissing on the TSL and, by extension, the foreigner community in general. This is a horrible thing too, since there are so many awesome members in this community.
dude I think your about 3 days too late for the dramabus...
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On December 17 2009 11:27 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2009 11:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
Some of this shit is ridiculous. Anyone - ANYONE - defending F91 has lost all possible perspective. I personally have nothing against this guy. I am a Zerg fanatic myself, and I love all foreigner Zerg. But, really, let's consider the situation he's in with regards to TSL:
He's Chinese and was flying to Taiwan as a loophole to be allowed to participate in the 'real TSL'. He's effectively playing outside the rules of the 'real TSL' in order to make it up the ladder. You can argue semantics and rules and whatnot, but this really breaks the spirit of the TSL imo. Not just because he's possibly denying a spot to someone who is not at all in any kind of gray area with regards to eligibility, but because of the reasons that Ret put forth.
Now I don't 100% agree with Ret's attitude, but in this case, he is definitely right. The Chinese community and the 'other' foreign community are like two different communities altogether. I personally think that allowing F91 to play in this tournament would have been for the greater good with regards to the foreigner community - not just because the guy is an awesome player and has a lot to bring to the table, but also because his involvement could get other Chinese players and the Chinese community as a whole to 'open up' to TL and the wider SC foreigner community (and of course the same thing happens with TL opening up to the Chinese community).
But practically speaking, the two communities, as of now, are basically separate entities. The other concern, which is NOT a minor concern, is lag. You can't have an epic match with lag, no matter the players.
Anyway, F91 - He's in a rough spot and has to get top 12 in order to not have a timing conflict with some other tournament (see what I did there?). I guess he'll just have to drop participation in that tournament.
Or maybe not. Well F91 surely can make top 12 by just doing his best right? Unfortunately, he didn't. He made his decision. He obviously considered the Chinese tournament to be of equal or greater value in comparison to the TSL. Did he cheat in the Chinese tournament as well? My guess is that he didn't. Unfortunately, it seems like he didn't take the TSL seriously enough to NOT CHEAT in it.
What he did was really unforgivable for so many reasons. Someone in his particular position really ought to be aware of the gravity of their situation. He is a Chinese player playing in a decidedly non-Chinese tournament - an act which could possibly bridge both communities in some way. But instead of setting an example for non-Chinese tournaments, he abuses the ladder. No matter your personal feelings about this guy beforehand, you simply cannot rationalize any regret over him being booted. What he did could scar future attempts at bridging the foreigner communities - not to mention that he disrespected the most prestigious foreigner tournament at the same time.
Anyone who defends any actions by ladder abusers is just pissing on the TSL and, by extension, the foreigner community in general. This is a horrible thing too, since there are so many awesome members in this community. dude I think your about 3 days too late for the dramabus...
I know. I usually don't post anything unless I think it's important. In this case, I just couldn't help it after reading through the threads.
Maybe TL will forgive because I was in a rough spot.
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EPT
