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On December 07 2009 07:24 iNfeRnaL wrote:
a) Kolll's ZvP is by no means bad or his worst mu, according to him he does best in ZvP right now.
b) He doesn't have to get used to it or "played 10 games vs Inf cause he wanted to see how he plays vs foreigners" - he always plays a lot vs me and usually wins more than this time around as well. Its not like he only plays Kors, he just mostly only plays ladder vs them.
Why we played so many games? We like to play each other cause we know we're both good and our games mostly turn out to be fun.
c) I got lucky as fuck and had a good day.
d) I'm by no means the best foreign PvZ, that'd be White-Ra or Draco.
It's cause in the post-WCG interview Koll said ZvP was his worse, that's probably why
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 07 2009 07:24 iNfeRnaL wrote:
a) Kolll's ZvP is by no means bad or his worst mu, according to him he does best in ZvP right now.
b) He doesn't have to get used to it or "played 10 games vs Inf cause he wanted to see how he plays vs foreigners" - he always plays a lot vs me and usually wins more than this time around as well. Its not like he only plays Kors, he just mostly only plays ladder vs them.
Why we played so many games? We like to play each other cause we know we're both good and our games mostly turn out to be fun.
c) I got lucky as fuck and had a good day.
d) I'm by no means the best foreign PvZ, that'd be White-Ra or Draco.
He JUST did an interview where he said he ZvP is his worst.
Sorry to steal your thunder but uh.. it is terribad.
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On December 07 2009 01:31 ftb wrote:
I don't know why you guys are so upset about kwark and morrow abusing their ways to the TSL. The ladder ist kinda irrelevant anyway. JF was only ranked 18th last time and still made his way up. Players who have potencial to get even into the top 16 will be in the top 48 at least and they gonna steamroll the players who dont deserve their ranks. I mean in the moment you see morrow higher ranked than ret or f91, you realize that the ladder is a piece of shit when it comes down to measuring the players skill, jzst because it is a ladder in a ladder as nony said.
So relax, it doesnt matter how high one is ranked. Even if White-Ra is #48, he still will make his way throug the qualification and end up in the elimination rounds and morrow will still get his ass kicked.
Justice will be done eventually. (epic dramatic line to end this post of nensense.)
speaking about morrow, maybe you should look at his matchlist before just assuming that he is pure trash and undeserving of his spot.
He has beaten:
haypro
nyoken
incontrol
fenix
squall
octzerg
mana
goody
alf
deska
horror
mamon
praetor
fraer
mondragon
sen
white-ra
yayba
xiaozi
kr
predator
ptak
dimaga
shad
I would say he is more than just some low level player inflating his rank. He deserves to be where he is at, and saying otherwise is just dumb thinking.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On December 07 2009 08:12 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2009 07:24 iNfeRnaL wrote:
a) Kolll's ZvP is by no means bad or his worst mu, according to him he does best in ZvP right now.
b) He doesn't have to get used to it or "played 10 games vs Inf cause he wanted to see how he plays vs foreigners" - he always plays a lot vs me and usually wins more than this time around as well. Its not like he only plays Kors, he just mostly only plays ladder vs them.
Why we played so many games? We like to play each other cause we know we're both good and our games mostly turn out to be fun.
c) I got lucky as fuck and had a good day.
d) I'm by no means the best foreign PvZ, that'd be White-Ra or Draco. He JUST did an interview where he said he ZvP is his worst. Sorry to steal your thunder but uh.. it is terribad.
And today he said that ZvP is his best in a game vs me.
I guess I have to be pretty bad to lose so many PvZ's to someone as terribad as him. (As I already stated I obviously lose more usually.)
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 07 2009 08:19 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2009 01:31 ftb wrote:
I don't know why you guys are so upset about kwark and morrow abusing their ways to the TSL. The ladder ist kinda irrelevant anyway. JF was only ranked 18th last time and still made his way up. Players who have potencial to get even into the top 16 will be in the top 48 at least and they gonna steamroll the players who dont deserve their ranks. I mean in the moment you see morrow higher ranked than ret or f91, you realize that the ladder is a piece of shit when it comes down to measuring the players skill, jzst because it is a ladder in a ladder as nony said.
So relax, it doesnt matter how high one is ranked. Even if White-Ra is #48, he still will make his way throug the qualification and end up in the elimination rounds and morrow will still get his ass kicked.
Justice will be done eventually. (epic dramatic line to end this post of nensense.) speaking about morrow, maybe you should look at his matchlist before just assuming that he is pure trash and undeserving of his spot. He has beaten: haypro nyoken incontrol fenix squall octzerg mana goody alf deska horror mamon praetor fraer mondragon sen white-ra yayba xiaozi kr predator ptak dimaga shad I would say he is more than just some low level player inflating his rank. He deserves to be where he is at, and saying otherwise is just dumb thinking.
His ZvT's hardly count dude. He does a proxy rax on 5-6 and blocks you in on HBR. He then brings 5-6 more scv's and if it fails he does a 1 base 4 rax sunk break all in with cut scv's.
YOu may call that "good" I call it a joke. Btw after he did it to me I asked for re and he said "You aree too good to bo3, I can only cheese" or something to that affect.
He is actually as bad as they say.
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10387 Posts
Looked at kolll's gamelist, a lot of short games.. with a lot of games on Heartbreak Ridge. He should start aiming for longer games/map variety
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Norway28558 Posts
heartbreak is ridiculously awesome for advancing fast on the ladder, at least for zergs. this is NOT the practice stage for the final tournament, it is nothing more than qualification and people want to get as many points as they can as quickly as they can. ;p
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On December 07 2009 00:32 Liquid`NonY wrote:
278 - 240
350 - 306
211 - 155
467 - 497
483 - 466
292 - 205
305 - 223
Those are the records of the Koreans he played from the games on the first page of his match list. He went 10-9 vs them. *golfclap*
A year ago when I was in estro, iccup was more difficult, but if B teamers played that many games, they could scrap an A rank, not be stuck at A-. So by my reckoning, F91 goes about 50% with Koreans that aren't even on pro teams.
edit: Oh i think i see what you're saying now. Since so many TSL players have gotten their ranks cheaply, we've lowered our standard so that people getting their rank in a normal way deserve mad props. Well i'm not going for that either.
Vast majority of f91's losses are from zvzs. And his zvz is probably the best outside of South Korea, if that gives you any perspective.
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Haha Sarens and Kr tied at 9016 for the spot #48-49
Btw if some people are tied at the end of the ladder how you will pick them ?
Bo3 ?
Bo5 ?
Randomly picked ?
First to get to the spot ?
Most win vs A- people ?
etc ???
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On December 07 2009 08:37 iloahz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2009 00:32 Liquid`NonY wrote:
278 - 240
350 - 306
211 - 155
467 - 497
483 - 466
292 - 205
305 - 223
Those are the records of the Koreans he played from the games on the first page of his match list. He went 10-9 vs them. *golfclap*
A year ago when I was in estro, iccup was more difficult, but if B teamers played that many games, they could scrap an A rank, not be stuck at A-. So by my reckoning, F91 goes about 50% with Koreans that aren't even on pro teams.
edit: Oh i think i see what you're saying now. Since so many TSL players have gotten their ranks cheaply, we've lowered our standard so that people getting their rank in a normal way deserve mad props. Well i'm not going for that either. Vast majority of f91's losses are from zvzs. And his zvz is probably the best outside of South Korea, if that gives you any perspective.
and you base that speculation off of...?
(Referring to "his zvz is prob the best outside of South Korea.."
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ight now 14 of the top 24 or Zerg players, seven of hem being in the top 12, i for one do not want a massive zvz fest for the ro16
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On December 07 2009 08:42 selboN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2009 08:37 iloahz wrote:On December 07 2009 00:32 Liquid`NonY wrote:
278 - 240
350 - 306
211 - 155
467 - 497
483 - 466
292 - 205
305 - 223
Those are the records of the Koreans he played from the games on the first page of his match list. He went 10-9 vs them. *golfclap*
A year ago when I was in estro, iccup was more difficult, but if B teamers played that many games, they could scrap an A rank, not be stuck at A-. So by my reckoning, F91 goes about 50% with Koreans that aren't even on pro teams.
edit: Oh i think i see what you're saying now. Since so many TSL players have gotten their ranks cheaply, we've lowered our standard so that people getting their rank in a normal way deserve mad props. Well i'm not going for that either. Vast majority of f91's losses are from zvzs. And his zvz is probably the best outside of South Korea, if that gives you any perspective. and you base that speculation off of...? (Referring to "his zvz is prob the best outside of South Korea.."
off his own words?
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8748 Posts
On December 07 2009 08:37 iloahz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2009 00:32 Liquid`NonY wrote:
278 - 240
350 - 306
211 - 155
467 - 497
483 - 466
292 - 205
305 - 223
Those are the records of the Koreans he played from the games on the first page of his match list. He went 10-9 vs them. *golfclap*
A year ago when I was in estro, iccup was more difficult, but if B teamers played that many games, they could scrap an A rank, not be stuck at A-. So by my reckoning, F91 goes about 50% with Koreans that aren't even on pro teams.
edit: Oh i think i see what you're saying now. Since so many TSL players have gotten their ranks cheaply, we've lowered our standard so that people getting their rank in a normal way deserve mad props. Well i'm not going for that either. Vast majority of f91's losses are from zvzs. And his zvz is probably the best outside of South Korea, if that gives you any perspective.
nope, no perspective. i'm pretty certain in my evaluation of the skill level of these players. are you just saying that these top amateur koreans have unusually good zvz?
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Well then I have no more words. Let's see what happens in a month, whether f91 can rape everyone his meets, like he always did in previous TL events.
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On December 07 2009 08:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2009 08:19 eXigent. wrote:On December 07 2009 01:31 ftb wrote:
I don't know why you guys are so upset about kwark and morrow abusing their ways to the TSL. The ladder ist kinda irrelevant anyway. JF was only ranked 18th last time and still made his way up. Players who have potencial to get even into the top 16 will be in the top 48 at least and they gonna steamroll the players who dont deserve their ranks. I mean in the moment you see morrow higher ranked than ret or f91, you realize that the ladder is a piece of shit when it comes down to measuring the players skill, jzst because it is a ladder in a ladder as nony said.
So relax, it doesnt matter how high one is ranked. Even if White-Ra is #48, he still will make his way throug the qualification and end up in the elimination rounds and morrow will still get his ass kicked.
Justice will be done eventually. (epic dramatic line to end this post of nensense.) speaking about morrow, maybe you should look at his matchlist before just assuming that he is pure trash and undeserving of his spot. He has beaten: haypro nyoken incontrol fenix squall octzerg mana goody alf deska horror mamon praetor fraer mondragon sen white-ra yayba xiaozi kr predator ptak dimaga shad I would say he is more than just some low level player inflating his rank. He deserves to be where he is at, and saying otherwise is just dumb thinking. His ZvT's hardly count dude. He does a proxy rax on 5-6 and blocks you in on HBR. He then brings 5-6 more scv's and if it fails he does a 1 base 4 rax sunk break all in with cut scv's. YOu may call that "good" I call it a joke. Btw after he did it to me I asked for re and he said "You aree too good to bo3, I can only cheese" or something to that affect. He is actually as bad as they say.
3-0ing haypro and 3-0ing dimaga would suggest he knows more than just cheese. He also beat mondi in a 25min game on othello. I think his TvZ is more than just what you are saying. Sure he cheeses, and gets wins that way, but he is still capable of beating these players straight up. Unless you are saying someone of Dimagas skill can still lose 3 times to the exact same cheese. You can't say he is horrible when he still beats these players, cheese or not.
I guess when the time comes, we shall see if he can move on.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 07 2009 09:04 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2009 08:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On December 07 2009 08:19 eXigent. wrote:On December 07 2009 01:31 ftb wrote:
I don't know why you guys are so upset about kwark and morrow abusing their ways to the TSL. The ladder ist kinda irrelevant anyway. JF was only ranked 18th last time and still made his way up. Players who have potencial to get even into the top 16 will be in the top 48 at least and they gonna steamroll the players who dont deserve their ranks. I mean in the moment you see morrow higher ranked than ret or f91, you realize that the ladder is a piece of shit when it comes down to measuring the players skill, jzst because it is a ladder in a ladder as nony said.
So relax, it doesnt matter how high one is ranked. Even if White-Ra is #48, he still will make his way throug the qualification and end up in the elimination rounds and morrow will still get his ass kicked.
Justice will be done eventually. (epic dramatic line to end this post of nensense.) speaking about morrow, maybe you should look at his matchlist before just assuming that he is pure trash and undeserving of his spot. He has beaten: haypro nyoken incontrol fenix squall octzerg mana goody alf deska horror mamon praetor fraer mondragon sen white-ra yayba xiaozi kr predator ptak dimaga shad I would say he is more than just some low level player inflating his rank. He deserves to be where he is at, and saying otherwise is just dumb thinking. His ZvT's hardly count dude. He does a proxy rax on 5-6 and blocks you in on HBR. He then brings 5-6 more scv's and if it fails he does a 1 base 4 rax sunk break all in with cut scv's. YOu may call that "good" I call it a joke. Btw after he did it to me I asked for re and he said "You aree too good to bo3, I can only cheese" or something to that affect. He is actually as bad as they say. 3-0ing haypro and 3-0ing dimaga would suggest he knows more than just cheese. He also beat mondi in a 25min game on othello. I think his TvZ is more than just what you are saying. Sure he cheeses, and gets wins that way, but he is still capable of beating these players straight up. Unless you are saying someone of Dimagas skill can still lose 3 times to the exact same cheese. You can't say he is horrible when he still beats these players, cheese or not. I guess when the time comes, we shall see if he can move on.
My point is the time HAS come, and came and gone.. MANY times and guess what he has won? Nothing. He gets A on a ladder by mixing cheese in with some mediocre straight up play and people start heralding him as some kind of good player.. it sickens those that KNOW him.
He will lose to the first T he plays. He will lose to the first P he plays. And he MIGHT hero a win vs a Z but not with him as high in the qualifiers as he is.. whoever he faces will be thankful for the free win.
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On December 07 2009 01:45 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2009 00:32 Liquid`NonY wrote:
278 - 240
350 - 306
211 - 155
467 - 497
483 - 466
292 - 205
305 - 223
Those are the records of the Koreans he played from the games on the first page of his match list. He went 10-9 vs them. *golfclap*
A year ago when I was in estro, iccup was more difficult, but if B teamers played that many games, they could scrap an A rank, not be stuck at A-. So by my reckoning, F91 goes about 50% with Koreans that aren't even on pro teams.
edit: Oh i think i see what you're saying now. Since so many TSL players have gotten their ranks cheaply, we've lowered our standard so that people getting their rank in a normal way deserve mad props. Well i'm not going for that either. well koreans with those stats are still quite a bit better almost all of the tsl players. its not a matter of lowering standards, its just a bigger achievement relatively speaking, even if it isnt all that big in itself. but actually just given that its f91 i think playing low level koreans would be easier than playing foreigners for him. the robots would have no clue what to do vs him. i'm not trying to start shit but would you define yourself as one of these "robots"?
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I hope when TL announces the people qualified they make a special mention of Mamon from Russia who, so far, has played almost 600 games of Starcraft on the TSL ladder. I really commend that, what a champion
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wth, thats like 10h of starcraft every day? lool
what a champ indeed
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EPT
