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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
On March 02 2012 07:06 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 07:02 Myles wrote:On March 02 2012 05:45 Torenhire wrote:On March 02 2012 05:39 OpticalShot wrote:On March 02 2012 05:19 TheToast wrote:bdair2002 was just temp banned for 1 week by Pholon.
That account was created on 2010-11-19 19:32:35 and had 46 posts.
Reason: You're a bigot and have absolutely nothing to contribute to an intellectual debate because you draw your truth from fairy tales. Leaving you in that topic is just going to ruin it, there's no point trying to make you see when you close your eyes tightly and claim blindness is virtue. I hope you learn to accept other people but failing that, try and keep your bigotry to yourself. It is simply not welcome in this community. Hey mods, can we please stop referring to people's faith and religion as fairy tales? That's just as disrespectful as what this guy was posting. I initially agreed with Toast, then I checked bdair's posts, and now I'm split... He definitely deserved the ban. The ban reason may have been intentionally harsh to hit him extra hard with the hammer. My interpretation is that mocking his faith and religion as 'fairy tales' is the extra wind up on the mighty banhammer to drive the point home. Still (this is where I'm split) the ban could have been done without the fairy tale part. It's not a matter of deserving the ban or not, because he did. It's a matter of respect...sort of. I can't really think of the right way to put my thoughts into words here, but why is it okay to ban someone on TL for being discriminatory, when you are being discriminatory in your ban reason? It's not being discriminatory based on beliefs or anything else, it's just the harsh truth. And it's like you said at first - respect. And imo, he deserves no respect. If you're going to use religion as a way to attack and discriminate against people, then there's no reason to respect your religion as any more then the fairy tale that it actually is. That's how I feel. He's being treated in the same way as he was treating other people, seems like a fair comment towards him. Might be a bit unnecessary if i was said it to someone who was acting respectfully, but it wasn't.
But the reason is also published publicly, and this has come up before. I don't remember if it was Pholon or not that was involved, but a mod publicly referring religion as "fairy tales" is over the line. I don't have a problem with mods saying something like "you're a fucking idiot" when someone deserves it. It's not the harshness of the ban language that bothers me. You can be harsh without being gratuitously offensive to people other than the ban-ee, and calling religion "fairy tales" is nothing if not gratuitously offensive.
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On March 02 2012 07:02 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 05:45 Torenhire wrote:On March 02 2012 05:39 OpticalShot wrote:On March 02 2012 05:19 TheToast wrote:bdair2002 was just temp banned for 1 week by Pholon.
That account was created on 2010-11-19 19:32:35 and had 46 posts.
Reason: You're a bigot and have absolutely nothing to contribute to an intellectual debate because you draw your truth from fairy tales. Leaving you in that topic is just going to ruin it, there's no point trying to make you see when you close your eyes tightly and claim blindness is virtue. I hope you learn to accept other people but failing that, try and keep your bigotry to yourself. It is simply not welcome in this community. Hey mods, can we please stop referring to people's faith and religion as fairy tales? That's just as disrespectful as what this guy was posting. I initially agreed with Toast, then I checked bdair's posts, and now I'm split... He definitely deserved the ban. The ban reason may have been intentionally harsh to hit him extra hard with the hammer. My interpretation is that mocking his faith and religion as 'fairy tales' is the extra wind up on the mighty banhammer to drive the point home. Still (this is where I'm split) the ban could have been done without the fairy tale part. It's not a matter of deserving the ban or not, because he did. It's a matter of respect...sort of. I can't really think of the right way to put my thoughts into words here, but why is it okay to ban someone on TL for being discriminatory, when you are being discriminatory in your ban reason? It's not being discriminatory based on beliefs or anything else. He wasn't banned for being religious; it's just the harsh truth. And it's like you said at first - respect. And imo, he deserves no respect. If you're going to use religion as a way to attack and discriminate against people, then there's no reason to respect your religion as any more then the fairy tale that it actually is.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you!
It's Christianity 101.
On March 02 2012 07:14 Boiler Bandsman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 07:06 MercilessMonkey wrote:On March 02 2012 07:02 Myles wrote:On March 02 2012 05:45 Torenhire wrote:On March 02 2012 05:39 OpticalShot wrote:On March 02 2012 05:19 TheToast wrote:bdair2002 was just temp banned for 1 week by Pholon.
That account was created on 2010-11-19 19:32:35 and had 46 posts.
Reason: You're a bigot and have absolutely nothing to contribute to an intellectual debate because you draw your truth from fairy tales. Leaving you in that topic is just going to ruin it, there's no point trying to make you see when you close your eyes tightly and claim blindness is virtue. I hope you learn to accept other people but failing that, try and keep your bigotry to yourself. It is simply not welcome in this community. Hey mods, can we please stop referring to people's faith and religion as fairy tales? That's just as disrespectful as what this guy was posting. I initially agreed with Toast, then I checked bdair's posts, and now I'm split... He definitely deserved the ban. The ban reason may have been intentionally harsh to hit him extra hard with the hammer. My interpretation is that mocking his faith and religion as 'fairy tales' is the extra wind up on the mighty banhammer to drive the point home. Still (this is where I'm split) the ban could have been done without the fairy tale part. It's not a matter of deserving the ban or not, because he did. It's a matter of respect...sort of. I can't really think of the right way to put my thoughts into words here, but why is it okay to ban someone on TL for being discriminatory, when you are being discriminatory in your ban reason? It's not being discriminatory based on beliefs or anything else, it's just the harsh truth. And it's like you said at first - respect. And imo, he deserves no respect. If you're going to use religion as a way to attack and discriminate against people, then there's no reason to respect your religion as any more then the fairy tale that it actually is. That's how I feel. He's being treated in the same way as he was treating other people, seems like a fair comment towards him. Might be a bit unnecessary if i was said it to someone who was acting respectfully, but it wasn't. But the reason is also published publicly, and this has come up before. I don't remember if it was Pholon or not that was involved, but a mod publicly referring religion as "fairy tales" is over the line. I don't have a problem with mods saying something like "you're a fucking idiot" when someone deserves it. It's not the harshness of the ban language that bothers me. You can be harsh without being gratuitously offensive to people other than the ban-ee, and calling religion "fairy tales" is nothing if not gratuitously offensive.
Religion is about faith and belief. If it is of Pholon's opinion that religion is a fairy tale then he is entitled to such an opinion. It's the same as me saying that there is no god, really, what's the difference?
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If he deserved the ban, why does it matter whether Pholon thinks his particular brand of faith was sensible or bollocks?
I don't see what the issue is here...
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the man deserved the ban and that's the gospel truuuuth
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On March 02 2012 07:15 SenorChang wrote:
Religion is about faith and belief. If it is of Pholon's opinion that religion is a fairy tale then he is entitled to such an opinion. It's the same as me saying that there is no god, really, what's the difference?
He is certainly allowed that opinion. But he should not allow that to affect his moderating (not saying it has, this ban was deserved), nor should he be obnoxious about it. As a moderator, he's held to a higher standard than the already high standards of the general community. What good could possibly come from referring to religion as fairy tale? There's no reason to do that other than to upset people of faith. That's the problem. "Don't drag religion into unrelated topics" is completely fine, serves a constructive purpose, and isn't designed to piss people off. "Religion is fairy tales" serves no purpose and IS designed to piss people off. I have a lot of respect for the moderation team here, and the high-quality community they've helped build, and for that reason I expect better than this sort of thing.
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Jedhammar was just banned by GMarshal.
That account was created on 2012-03-01 04:23:18 and had 1 posts.
Reason: Registered just to advertise in a thread about not self advertising. Its clear that you only read the title and only care about promoting whatever it is you are promoting, so goodbye.
I don't think I've ever seen a personalized 1-post-ban for advertising before. :O
Oh and I agree the bdair guy was a total jerk, but I believe we don't need to piss on his grave when banning him. We can behave better than that.
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I resonate with TheToast and others.......it looks like Pholon dropped down to the level of the user he was banning and just insulted him. This was a temp ban, if it was on a permenant I'd find it more acceptable.
You can't insult someone if they like coffee by saying coffee is shit. That is a minor case, insulting someones Beliefs and Religion is not cool in my opinion.
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United States5162 Posts
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They have a list of pre-scripted ban reasons afaik. Maybe this is just one of them. I don't see the big deal though. Are people really insulted by that or is it people just jumping in to defend people that aren't actually in here?
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I personally think it's pretty offensive and really disappointing. TL has it's fair share of shitty posters, but in terms of the staff/mods/etc I always have high expectations for tolerance. Regardless of personal beliefs I like to think that when people are representing TL they do so without sexism, or racism, or homophobia, or religious bias or anything else. But... it's your house so yeah. XD
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Shouldn't that discussion happen in feedback ?
I won't enter the discussion because I don't want to get overboard again and get banned again. But I suggest that people try to understand the relativity of outrages. Not everyone takes people being obnoxious as seriously as some mods on TL, still I get ban for that.
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I know, that's why I brought it up. I didn't mean for it to turn into such a big 'thing' but after I PM'ed Kwark about it last time he sort of brushed me off about it. I could care less that this guy was banned, but I don't like the mods equating my faith or the faith of anyone else with "the old woman who lived in a shoe". Sorry, but that's absurdly offensive. I fail to see how that is any different than bdair telling everyone that their views are irrelevant and his are right because of his personal beliefs. That ban reason implies the exact same thing.
I'm going to drop it before it takes over this whole thread, but hopefully the mods understand where I'm coming from on this now. After the last time, apparently no one cared or listened.
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I could make a decent post about there being fundamental similarities between dogmatic religions and fairy tales, and why this is hardly an insult to either. But I know that the use of the phrase 'fairy tales' in the ban reason was more a knee-jerk reaction to someone being a dick about beliefs they hold which are not based in the percievable reality than a comment on the place of religion, fable and folk history in the development of society. It was probably not the best choice, because people are usually sensitive to anything which could be percieved as an attack on their beliefs and react emotionally rather than rationally.
I may edit this to make it comprehensible when I finally get some sleep. My building was evacuated for a considerable period of time last night.
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i dont know how to respond to this religion debate without dragging this thread more off topic, suffice to say i think pholons ban and his justification were more than justified.
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On March 02 2012 12:09 turdburgler wrote:
i dont know how to respond to this religion debate without dragging this thread more off topic, suffice to say i think pholons ban and his justification were more than justified.
I completely agree with this.
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On March 02 2012 12:09 turdburgler wrote:
i dont know how to respond to this religion debate without dragging this thread more off topic, suffice to say i think pholons ban and his justification were more than justified.
No one's arguing that the ban was unjustified. The fact that not one but two moderators believe it is acceptable to refer to religious beliefs as "fairy tales", however, is very concerning. They are entitled to believe that personally, and say so in the forums if they so desire. But in their official capacity, they have to be respectful and impartial, and calling religion "fairy tales" gives the appearance that neither of those is the case.
To be clear, I'm not implying a lack of impartiality. This ban was deserved, regardless of the views being pushed in the post or the ban. But surely we can agree that calling my, or anyone else's religious beliefs "fairy tales" is disrespectful at best, and damages what the moderation staff stands for, and almost always upholds.
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Everyone who's talking about bdair2002 should be banned for not following the note above considering the topic would be well-suited in the feedback section of this site, not here.
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On March 02 2012 12:53 Kamais Ookin wrote:
Everyone who's talking about bdair2002 should be banned for not following the note above considering the topic would be well-suited in the feedback section of this site, not here.
oh so you're a moderator now?
your statement is contradictory because we are discussing a ban, there is no violation of the mod note
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On March 02 2012 13:07 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 12:53 Kamais Ookin wrote:
Everyone who's talking about bdair2002 should be banned for not following the note above considering the topic would be well-suited in the feedback section of this site, not here. oh so you're a moderator now? your statement is contradictory because we are discussing a ban, there is no violation of the mod note Nope not a mod, just looking at the mod note then looking at all the religion talks and website feedback discussions essentially makes me scratch my head.
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Nope not a mod, just looking at the mod note then looking at all the religion talks and website feedback discussions essentially makes me scratch my head.
They aren't discussing whether religion is a fairy tale or not, they're discussing usage of that characterization in a ban comment. Is it too harsh to say you're the one not talking about bans in the ban list, but something else?
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EPT
