To summarize: we're opening up the MLG.tv streaming platform for a finite # of players/organizations and it’s completely non-exclusive. I know there are a lot of questions regarding partnerships, our player and more, so post your questions in the comments here and and I'll do my best to answer as soon as possible.
I'm heading to the airport at 5PM EST today, but I will aim to answer as much as I can once I'm home around 10PM EST tonight.
Ask me anything!
EDIT: Just walked in the door at 10:26PM EST diving in now!
Adam! Congratulations on the launch. I have a question about CPM deals. Is it possible for each broadcaster to have a specific ad revenue deal? Are their package options? For example, a COD team has an ad package that caters to a COD audience that would have a higher rate for American viewers? Are there potential sponsor conflicts with broadcasters - example: A team is sponsored by Monster but MLG is sponsored by NOS?
1. Why teamliquid? 2. How would you implement the chat? Are you gonna go full twitch-chat and let chaos run lose or are you going for a more "civilized" approach? 3. Is this player partnership or team partnership? 4. Can tournament broadcasters use this as a platform for other tournaments besides MLG?
I don't really know much about streaming, sorry. Wished somebody who knows a thing or two like Tobi or GoDz ask something.
On December 21 2013 04:02 Lunareste wrote: Why are you posting this here when you dropped Starcraft? I don't get it.
Did MLG actually ever officially say that they won't host a Starcraft tournament again? If not, that could either be an indication that they might, or a cheap way to use the "maybe" to get more exposure on multiple sub-forums, I guess.
On December 21 2013 04:01 LongShot27 wrote: Why does this have an Sc2 icon next to it, I hate to be that guy but MLG has completely dropped SC2, please fix that
On December 21 2013 04:02 Lunareste wrote: Why are you posting this here when you dropped Starcraft? I don't get it.
It's posted in TL Community. Our staff newsed it and are responsible for putting the SC2 icon next to it. It is relevant because you watch StarCraft tournaments and organizations (like every team) who now seemingly can use MLG.tv.
6/18 posts scored red text already. And I thought MLG threads in the dota 2 subforums were trainwrecks lol.
No real questions Adam other than Grats for launching and +1 for some sort of chat that doesn't connect to existing social networking services that I pointedly do not use.
I don't think MLG actually dropped SC2, they just didn't host it because their event was on the same weekend as Redbull's event. Besides I think they said they have some SC2 stuff planned for 2014.
How will VODs work, or will there even be vods? Is there going to be a multitude of ads or am I going to be watching the same 4 ads for hours upon end? What kind of subscription thing to avoid ads will there be?
Then I'll ask: I looked at your link, I pasted some of the benefits that your service offers. I highlighted my personal favourites and bolded some points of interests. - We handle the advertising so you don’t have to! - Ad Block Detection - MLG tech support 24/7. -Built in twitter chat creates hashtag trending. -Leverage MLG’s relationship with mainstream media companies like Relativity Media for new programming and partnership opportunities.
- Standard 1080p HD streams. When I remember MLG "standard" 1080p, I immediately think of "viewers require a subscription". Care to elaborate a little? Maybe I am missing something. - Analytics – we’ll provide data to help determine the best times to stream, when to serve ads and more. How does it work? -Integration into MLG’s homepage calendar and inclusion in MLG promotional updates as appropriate. Being not a native english user I could have misread the meaning of the sentence: up until now it looks like there are different levels of partnership? Or does it depend on the number of viewers or such? -Create merchandise to be sold via the MLG Pro Shop and earn a percentage. What's the percentage? Has all the eventual merchandise to be sold through said store?
YouTube MCN, Global Reach Beyond the MLG Network -Protection and enforcement of your rights to your content. Does the partnership extend the rights of my contents to MLG?
I'm not into the business so I don't know if my questions are somehow "appropriate". If that wasn't the case I apologise.
On December 21 2013 04:31 miniskirt wrote: what backend network will you be using? what company are you buying bandwidth from? what is the current state of your peering connections?
Eh, its no surprise they are doing this. MLG ran re-runs of old Starcraft matches and created all of these "greatest matches of all-time" type streams to continue milking the SC2 viewers without having to put out money aside from some production costs. MLG has been keeping their small pinkey toe in the SC2 scene just enough to keep their revenue streams open and this seems to be another way they are doing that.
On December 21 2013 04:51 NKexquisite wrote: Eh, its no surprise they are doing this. MLG ran re-runs of old Starcraft matches and created all of these "greatest matches of all-time" type streams to continue milking the SC2 viewers without having to put out money aside from some production costs. MLG has been keeping their small pinkey toe in the SC2 scene just enough to keep their revenue streams open and this seems to be another way they are doing that.
Judging by twitch numbers, Starcraft is probably not the reason to start a streaming service
Will there be an actual dedicated mlg.tv stream site or will the streams just be on the front page of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/ as they are now?
On December 21 2013 04:54 ElMeanYo wrote: Honestly I feel betrayed by MLG for dropping SC2 and any post here by Adam makes me scoff.
It's a knee-jerk reaction though. I hope MLG changes their tune and brings SC2 back cause I loved those MLG weekends.
WW gets forced to drop its SC2 section and ends up disbanding due to WCS: "omg poor team we luv u thx for all u did" MLG gets forced to scale back SC2 (drop isn't the right term) due to WCS: "omg MLG r shitbags hate hate hate"
Regardless, that isn't even a little bit what this is about.
"Built in twitter chat creates hashtag trending" that shit sounds cool yo
How will hashtag trending work out in chat? Will there be a area around the chat showing what hashtag's are tending? does it take a the most typed words in the chat and creates a #hashtag?
It's not clear from the linked site how the MLG streaming service will be differentiated from the service that Twitch already provides. I could see some opportunities for improving on the Twitch service, but I'm really curious what would draw someone to the MLG service instead. I could see a higher ad revenue being the draw, but I would expect that there would need to be more.
I do hope there'll be a non-twitter alternative for a chat. The chat and the interactivity it brings is a large part of why I enjoy watching streams. What the MLG.tv player does with Twitter-based chats with hashtags is pretty awful for that, I'm afraid.
People have said it before, but MLG lost my support after dropping StarCraft. I've been following Team Liquid since early 2000, and I know people are getting warnings for saying this, and unfortunately I probably will too, but I also feel pretty insulted that they're trying to pitch their streaming service to a primarily SC2 community after dropping SC2.
This is one first and only warning that even if I get, is well deserved, because I'm pretty sure myself and many other people here feel betrayed.
Shame MLG dropped SC2 in the blink of an eye with no real reason.. Hard to support a company that did that after SC2 helped make them a bigger brand, maybe this is an indicator that they are to change that? Doubtful though.
I looked over the release again. It's mostly geared towards content creators (pro-gamers, streamers, and events).
Is there a reason why viewers might prefer MLG.tv, too? As this AMA seems to be geared towards fans and spectators, instead, do you have something prepared for this audience?
Will the focus be on NA streaming, or are you expecting to have a quality European setup (e.g. EU servers)?
Given how bad Twitch is for Europe most of the time, no matter how much they claim to be fixing things for the last 6+ months, something which can help users in Europe not have to use Twitch would be nice, since not many people seem to be willing yet to use Youtube.
Any competition for Twitch is like a gift from heaven. Maybe MLG is a strong enough company to finally bring one to the table instead of just promises? Then noone will be able to make excuses that there is no alternative to the horrible twitch service. Of course, if you fail to cater to European customers in the same way as twitch does, you'll be damned forever.
On December 21 2013 05:58 opisska wrote: Any competition for Twitch is like a gift from heaven. Maybe MLG is a strong enough company to finally bring one to the table instead of just promises? Then noone will be able to make excuses that there is no alternative to the horrible twitch service. Of course, if you fail to cater to European customers in the same way as twitch does, you'll be damned forever.
Well since the OP said there are only a set # of spots available for streamers and the partnership is not exclusive I don't really think it will be much of a competition for Twitch. Rather they will work in parallel. Now to the question: Has a thought of actually expanding this service to work as a public streaming platform with select partnerships (akin to Twitch, Afreeca) ever appear?
On December 21 2013 05:58 opisska wrote: Any competition for Twitch is like a gift from heaven. Maybe MLG is a strong enough company to finally bring one to the table instead of just promises? Then noone will be able to make excuses that there is no alternative to the horrible twitch service. Of course, if you fail to cater to European customers in the same way as twitch does, you'll be damned forever.
Well since the OP said there are only a set # of spots available for streamers and the partnership is not exclusive I don't really think it will be much of a competition for Twitch. Rather they will work in parallel. Now to the question: Has a thought of actually expanding this service to work as a public streaming platform with select partnerships (akin to Twitch, Afreeca) ever appear?
This is just pure speculation on my part, but I think thats the end game.
If MLG made it a free-for-all right from the beginning, there would be nothing unique about the service, and most of the bigger streamers would be reluctant to move to a different streaming platform for the risk of losing their subscriber base. By making it seem exclusive and offering some production assistance (? not sure about this), they hope to get the bigger streamers only, and as the viewer numbers increase (along with demand), they will gradually move towards making it a public streaming platform. Its a marketing move, and also lets them scale their streaming platform gradually IMO. (think about gmail launch)
Nice, twitch needs some competition. I thought the stream for the most recent mlg dota2 event was awesome(sorry brahs im bad with names). The stream was awesome because of the quality and non stuttering that I have been getting pretty frustrated with over time when watching through twitch.
I know you wanted questions, but I will give you a request instead. Multiple audio sources for one video stream could be really cool. Ill give a few scenarios: 1. One dedicated camera man/woman, different casting languages who doesnt need to think about smooth camera movement etc. 2. Team audio communication, geting the live audio from the players themselves would to me be invaluable and might for the first time make me pay top dollar for dota content.
On December 21 2013 05:58 opisska wrote: Any competition for Twitch is like a gift from heaven. Maybe MLG is a strong enough company to finally bring one to the table instead of just promises? Then noone will be able to make excuses that there is no alternative to the horrible twitch service. Of course, if you fail to cater to European customers in the same way as twitch does, you'll be damned forever.
Well since the OP said there are only a set # of spots available for streamers and the partnership is not exclusive I don't really think it will be much of a competition for Twitch. Rather they will work in parallel. Now to the question: Has a thought of actually expanding this service to work as a public streaming platform with select partnerships (akin to Twitch, Afreeca) ever appear?
This is just pure speculation on my part, but I think thats the end game.
If MLG made it a free-for-all right from the beginning, there would be nothing unique about the service, and most of the bigger streamers would be reluctant to move to a different streaming platform for the risk of losing their subscriber base. By making it seem exclusive and offering some production assistance (? not sure about this), they hope to get the bigger streamers only, and as the viewer numbers increase (along with demand), they will gradually move towards making it a public streaming platform. Its a marketing move, and also lets them scale their streaming platform gradually IMO. (think about gmail launch)
plus if you make it a free for all the servers are going to crash almost guaranteed (see diablo 3 launch and US health care systems launch. plus this helps them work out bugs
I guess this isn't really a question towards MLG directly (and probably irrelevant by now), but... why are SC2 streams usually the only one with sub only mode? Ruins all the fun and excitement when there's no one talking but laid back subs. Like, I think it was during the last MLG where MaximusBlack was on stage and everyone in chat was spamming "bouse bouse bouse", but all of a sudden it became sub mode. That made the rest of the event boring for me, lol. Might as well have told everyone in the venue to shut up as well :S.
Congrats on the launch! I'm happy to see you guys venturing into new areas. With that said, I can't support this personally as I'm already very invested in Twitch. Further, the rather...fluid nature of MLG makes me hesitant. In the years to come, if this becomes a proven entity and current trends change, so be it, though admittedly I am doubtful.
Regardless, competition fosters innovation and the lack thereof breeds complacency. I look forward to what comes from this.
Edit: Read the following: "To be clear – the MLG streaming platform isn’t for everyone. We have no intention of opening it up to the masses. We do however intend to fill a fixed number of spots with established pro players, pro teams and established gaming personalities with substantial followings, as well as feature other eSports competitions. Why? Because we believe that premium content producers deserve a premium content distribution platform."
Ugh. That feels even worse. I understand the intent but it comes off a bit elitist. The established pros that stream on Twitch are expected to come over to your platform where, I feel, they will stagnate and die. It's the wide reach and volume of streamers available to watch that helps to increase the viewership of these "established personalities." I'd have to think long and hard if I were one such person.
do you already have everything figured out or are you releasing a half assed service in which you do not fully understand how to run while trying to utilize the people streaming for feedback to figure it out?
Adamn, really pumped about the streaming platform. What devices are you looking at to get your stream to the people? Is Roku an option? I want MLG on my tv, but don't want to use my jet engine Xbox.
On December 21 2013 07:05 Lumi wrote: Some of the warnings i can understand, but the first one? Whats wrong with asking/encouraging mlg to bring back sc? I want to hear this one :o
website feeback please. its off topic and the issue itself of MLG and SC2 has been discussed before.
If sponsored streamers are part of your envisaged customer user base, how will sponsor issues be resolved?
How is MLG.tv going to be held responsible for individual misbehaviour? Twitch has a dedicated support team for stream or chat abuse, who are also helping with stream setups, DDOS etc : is MLG able to offer the same?
Is this part of a bigger drive towards expansion of the MLG brand into providing esports infrastructure, or is this just a small side-project without any real strategy or thought behind it? I would be interested to find out what your long-term forecast for the service is.
Awesome, MLG! Twitch could really use some competition.
Question one: Will you make sure noscript (firefox addon) users can watch your streams? (I will watch your commercials if I don't have to allow third party servers.)
I would ask a question about the length of the trial period (before you decide to pull the plug or keep it in), but I guess it'd make bad business sense to share those details.
Best of luck
Edit: Guess this is Youtube based.. they are big enough as is. wish another player would enter the market.. now I'm conflicted.
On December 21 2013 07:05 Lumi wrote: Some of the warnings i can understand, but the first one? Whats wrong with asking/encouraging mlg to bring back sc? I want to hear this one :o
User was warned for this post
well, i guess it's basically the same way image macros get warnings/bans.
On December 21 2013 07:52 monsta wrote: why is this a Sc2/dota2 thread? this has to be only Dota thread ..
Read any post on the front page...
I don't see this taking off for a while anyway because most organisations are under contract with Twitch, right? I can see individual tournaments getting on board but players/casters need to be found, and you get found on Twitch, whereas I'd imagine most people find tournaments on TL/jD/etc.
I would describe most MLG tournaments streams as mediocre at best. They have always been plagued by a crappy website and stuttering problems. Hopefully this will improve on those issues and force some competitive improvements in all the streaming websites.
Would be interested in the support for fringe services (chromebook, ipad, and various mobile platforms) seeing how it uses youtube but how much might be proprietary and how much might be just youtube.
Wait, what? MLG didn't drop SC2, they just didn't have it at Columbus because Red Bull Battlegrounds was the same weekend. Sundance tweeted today that MLG Anaheim might have WCS content.
-Why should I as viewer think that the particular streamer I like made the right choice with MLG? Why should I chose that MLG streamer over a twitch (or youtube) streamer.
-Assuming I like two streamers equally, why should I chose the one that stream through MLG?
-What is the benefit for streamers and audience when they chose MLG over (or in addition to) twitch and youtube?
-In the past there were multiple non severe problems with MLG rules and products that you seemed resistant to change. Why should people TRUST that issues will be fixed and stuff changed to reflect the wishes of the users?
For me (trying) to trust MLG has been a roller coaster ride. Faux pas followed by trust building followed by faux pas ad infinitum. (As far as faux pas go.... why would I want to see MLGs latest tweet+ads before I can look at details of your announcement and why aren't those details in your post?)
On December 21 2013 10:31 Cheren wrote: Wait, what? MLG didn't drop SC2, they just didn't have it at Columbus because Red Bull Battlegrounds was the same weekend. Sundance tweeted today that MLG Anaheim might have WCS content.
I think that after this thread people sort of just assumed that MLG was dropping sc2. I might be missing something though.
What is MLG? I don't follow mobas and peasant race (console) gamers .
Who cares if they dropped sc2 though? They tried killing Counter-Strike in America (I assume with the objective to have Halo fill in the gap? ROFL), by buying out the CS equivalent to TL at the time (GotFrag), only to shut it down right after buying it. Years of history, content, results were wiped by MLG's greed. In the end, MLG is a business, and they will turn their back on communities and actually hurt different esports scenes, if it helps their bottom line. It didn't kill off CS, but besides the CGS debacle, MLG's trashing of GotFrag has to rank #2 on the biggest blows to CS.
On December 21 2013 02:57 Clutch8 wrote: Adam! Congratulations on the launch. I have a question about CPM deals. Is it possible for each broadcaster to have a specific ad revenue deal? Are their package options? For example, a COD team has an ad package that caters to a COD audience that would have a higher rate for American viewers? Are there potential sponsor conflicts with broadcasters - example: A team is sponsored by Monster but MLG is sponsored by NOS?
Thanks for your time. Clutch
Hey Josh, thanks for the thorough post.
Our strategy for MLG streamers partners is to treat the relationship as if we're in a mutually beneficial partnership. Once a partner is brought into the system they will be assigned an individual producer who will be their direct contact 24/7. That producer will work with the streamer on creating their personalized page, their schedule, and walk through optimizing their stream on various levels. Additionally, not only will we monetize streamers with our baseline programmatic live bidding private auction capabilities (advertisers are constantly bidding for ad space in real time in our private exchange) but we will also work with them on an individual basis to sell direct advertising campaigns with our sales team.
Sponsor conflicts- No. We are not an event sponsorship business anymore with strict category exclusives. We will work with all streamers to ensure all sponsor obligations are covered.
On December 21 2013 03:20 lilopuppy wrote: 1. Why teamliquid? 2. How would you implement the chat? Are you gonna go full twitch-chat and let chaos run lose or are you going for a more "civilized" approach? 3. Is this player partnership or team partnership? 4. Can tournament broadcasters use this as a platform for other tournaments besides MLG?
I don't really know much about streaming, sorry. Wished somebody who knows a thing or two like Tobi or GoDz ask something.
1) I have a great relationship with Victor and Ken so I went to them first to do this AMA. I feel that TL is one of the best multi genre communities on the internet.
2) We currently have twitter chat. While it has extreme benefits for helping streamers with social outreach, it does have its drawbacks. We are assessing chat plans and will have an update soon. 3) Both. We'll work with teams or individual players. 4) Yes definitely and we'll do everything we can to help promote that event.
On December 21 2013 02:57 Clutch8 wrote: Adam! Congratulations on the launch. I have a question about CPM deals. Is it possible for each broadcaster to have a specific ad revenue deal? Are their package options? For example, a COD team has an ad package that caters to a COD audience that would have a higher rate for American viewers? Are there potential sponsor conflicts with broadcasters - example: A team is sponsored by Monster but MLG is sponsored by NOS?
Thanks for your time. Clutch
Sponsor conflicts- No. We are not an event sponsorship business anymore with strict category exclusives. We will work with all streamers to ensure all sponsor obligations are covered.
wait does this mean MLG will be moving mainly away from huge-scale events? i've been going to them since 2005! nooooooo
On December 21 2013 04:01 LongShot27 wrote: Why does this have an Sc2 icon next to it, I hate to be that guy but MLG has completely dropped SC2, please fix that
User was warned for this post
We can still stream SC2 events that others run or work with Sc2 streamers. Also, no one said we 'dropped' SC2 forever. WCS is doing great, we'll try to pop in where we're needed.
On December 21 2013 02:57 Clutch8 wrote: Adam! Congratulations on the launch. I have a question about CPM deals. Is it possible for each broadcaster to have a specific ad revenue deal? Are their package options? For example, a COD team has an ad package that caters to a COD audience that would have a higher rate for American viewers? Are there potential sponsor conflicts with broadcasters - example: A team is sponsored by Monster but MLG is sponsored by NOS?
Thanks for your time. Clutch
Sponsor conflicts- No. We are not an event sponsorship business anymore with strict category exclusives. We will work with all streamers to ensure all sponsor obligations are covered.
wait does this mean MLG will be moving mainly away from huge-scale events? i've been going to them since 2005! nooooooo
ABSOLUTELY NOT. We're just not an event sponsorship centric company any more. The events will be even bigger than ever before
On December 21 2013 04:10 Xeris wrote: MLG's streaming platform is totally irrelevant to whether or not MLG includes StarCraft at their events. You can be a StarCraft streamer on MLG.. o-o
On December 21 2013 02:57 Clutch8 wrote: Adam! Congratulations on the launch. I have a question about CPM deals. Is it possible for each broadcaster to have a specific ad revenue deal? Are their package options? For example, a COD team has an ad package that caters to a COD audience that would have a higher rate for American viewers? Are there potential sponsor conflicts with broadcasters - example: A team is sponsored by Monster but MLG is sponsored by NOS?
Thanks for your time. Clutch
Sponsor conflicts- No. We are not an event sponsorship business anymore with strict category exclusives. We will work with all streamers to ensure all sponsor obligations are covered.
wait does this mean MLG will be moving mainly away from huge-scale events? i've been going to them since 2005! nooooooo
ABSOLUTELY NOT. We're just not an event sponsorship centric company any more. The events will be even bigger than ever before
On December 21 2013 04:16 Adebisi wrote: Are you guys considering adding options to chat so you can use it without being forced to connect to Twitter anytime in the near future?
Hey Mike. We definitely are assessing chat. Advertisers hate it but the community loves it. What is the happy medium? We're trying to figure that out.
On December 21 2013 04:25 Sn0_Man wrote: 6/18 posts scored red text already. And I thought MLG threads in the dota 2 subforums were trainwrecks lol.
No real questions Adam other than Grats for launching and +1 for some sort of chat that doesn't connect to existing social networking services that I pointedly do not use.
On December 21 2013 04:25 howLiN wrote: I don't think MLG actually dropped SC2, they just didn't host it because their event was on the same weekend as Redbull's event. Besides I think they said they have some SC2 stuff planned for 2014.
Truth on the November event. We're still assessing 2014 plans. WCS is a pretty robust event series so we'll see if we're actually needed amidst so much stuff already going on.
MLG employe I don't think your company understands its kinda hated in the starcraft world right now, maybe throw people a bone do something for the community maybe throw a NA king of the hill or have starcraft stream marathon on your new site anything sth, then launch this to starcraft players see there is this thing called goodwill, you basically have none in the starcraft world right now might wanna work on that it's kinda important thing to have.
why was I warned for this?? is expressing an opinion not allowed on team liquid, why even have a thread then, if your going to ban and warn every person who expresses an opinion you don't like?? MLG is fairly hated right now they do have no good will those are FACTS, maybe if you looked at them and tried to fix them instead of avoiding and banning everyone who mentions something negative, it might actually help you become more successful.
On December 21 2013 04:27 Kaal wrote: How will VODs work, or will there even be vods? Is there going to be a multitude of ads or am I going to be watching the same 4 ads for hours upon end? What kind of subscription thing to avoid ads will there be?
Right now VOD and rebroadcasting is a manual process by the producer assigned to each streaming partner. In early January we will roll out our automated rebroadcast tools and VOD system. We will have automatic population to Youtube for all streamers.
We will have more ad diversity for sure.
Sub plans are still being assessed. To be 100000% honest, I"m not sure if a subscription plan will ever involve no ads.
On December 21 2013 04:29 MavivaM wrote: Then I'll ask: I looked at your link, I pasted some of the benefits that your service offers. I highlighted my personal favourites and bolded some points of interests. - We handle the advertising so you don’t have to! - Ad Block Detection - MLG tech support 24/7. -Built in twitter chat creates hashtag trending. -Leverage MLG’s relationship with mainstream media companies like Relativity Media for new programming and partnership opportunities.
- Standard 1080p HD streams. When I remember MLG "standard" 1080p, I immediately think of "viewers require a subscription". Care to elaborate a little? Maybe I am missing something. - Analytics – we’ll provide data to help determine the best times to stream, when to serve ads and more. How does it work? -Integration into MLG’s homepage calendar and inclusion in MLG promotional updates as appropriate. Being not a native english user I could have misread the meaning of the sentence: up until now it looks like there are different levels of partnership? Or does it depend on the number of viewers or such? -Create merchandise to be sold via the MLG Pro Shop and earn a percentage. What's the percentage? Has all the eventual merchandise to be sold through said store?
YouTube MCN, Global Reach Beyond the MLG Network -Protection and enforcement of your rights to your content. Does the partnership extend the rights of my contents to MLG?
I'm not into the business so I don't know if my questions are somehow "appropriate". If that wasn't the case I apologise.
Answering in order of bolded parts:
1080p will be free
We will assign each streamer a personal producer that will work with them on scheduling, reporting, etc. We will help them optimize everything from when they should stream to how long they should stream to how many ads per hour is too much.
We will promote streamers within our existing social networks. The 'as appropriate' part means that we won't over promote someone, as that is actually counter productive (you can only say something is special so many times)
Merchandise % is handled directly with the streaming partner. We handle the merchandise creation, the inventory, the insurance, the fulfillment, etc. It is a very generous % in comparison to industry standard.
MCN means that we extend our protection to anyone that is within our MCN.
On December 21 2013 04:31 miniskirt wrote: what backend network will you be using? what company are you buying bandwidth from? what is the current state of your peering connections?
Some of this is outside of my expertise but I know that instead of building our own CDN we went directly to the #1 CDN in the world: Akami. We are using Akami for all of our distribution and that is why our streams are so stable.
On December 21 2013 04:32 OblivionMage wrote: Will MLG.tv be an actual site with a new design, or will the streams be placed somewhere on the current majorleaguegaming.com?
On December 21 2013 04:47 CParks wrote: How do you plan on persuading some of the more popular streamers to switch over? Have you already been in talks with some?
We have quite a few partners already signed up (we'll announce soon)
What is our sales pitch? Come try it no strings attached, no exclusivity, no 'YOU'RE LOCKED IN FOR 1-3 YEARS'. We are confident that streamers will like our personalized approach, the ability to make more money, and the feeling of being part of a select team of premium streamers.
We want to build a network of great content, not a UGC site of content.
On December 21 2013 04:51 NKexquisite wrote: Eh, its no surprise they are doing this. MLG ran re-runs of old Starcraft matches and created all of these "greatest matches of all-time" type streams to continue milking the SC2 viewers without having to put out money aside from some production costs. MLG has been keeping their small pinkey toe in the SC2 scene just enough to keep their revenue streams open and this seems to be another way they are doing that.
User was warned for this post
I think it will be another 2, maybe 3 years before anyone besides Blizzard matches our 'paid player travel' totals from 2011-2013. But it is fine, I understand that it can be a 'what have you done for me now' situation.
On December 21 2013 04:53 WhizPower wrote: Will there be an actual dedicated mlg.tv stream site or will the streams just be on the front page of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/ as they are now?
A bit of both. We are creating individual pages for each streamer as they come into the system along with home page integration.
On December 21 2013 04:54 ElMeanYo wrote: Honestly I feel betrayed by MLG for dropping SC2 and any post here by Adam makes me scoff.
It's a knee-jerk reaction though. I hope MLG changes their tune and brings SC2 back cause I loved those MLG weekends.
WW gets forced to drop its SC2 section and ends up disbanding due to WCS: "omg poor team we luv u thx for all u did" MLG gets forced to scale back SC2 (drop isn't the right term) due to WCS: "omg MLG r shitbags hate hate hate"
Regardless, that isn't even a little bit what this is about.
On December 21 2013 05:04 baeric wrote: Starcraft community as always pretty childish. MLG gives finally competition to twitch and everybody is butthurt about ... they dropped starcraft buhu
On topic: It was great to see the stream with Dota and was nice quality and no lag what so ever.
User was warned for this post
Thank you! We were very happy with the Columbus Pro Circuit stability and definitely learned things we need to improve/fix.
On December 21 2013 05:16 Aegeis wrote: "Built in twitter chat creates hashtag trending" that shit sounds cool yo
How will hashtag trending work out in chat? Will there be a area around the chat showing what hashtag's are tending? does it take a the most typed words in the chat and creates a #hashtag?
Anyways good luck to you guys, have fun.
With our Twitter API chat anyone that chats includes the stream link and official hash tag. During the Optic Gaming CoD: Ghosts marathon they trended daily domestically and every other day they were top 5 globally. That is insane.
On December 21 2013 04:31 miniskirt wrote: what backend network will you be using? what company are you buying bandwidth from? what is the current state of your peering connections?
Some of this is outside of my expertise but I know that instead of building our own CDN we went directly to the #1 CDN in the world: Akami. We are using Akami for all of our distribution and that is why our streams are so stable.
Akamai*
that's actually great to hear, Akamai has nice peering in europe, especially with my ISP
I really enjoyed the recent Dota 2 tournament and my experience with it's stream was a good one.
Have you made any progress fixing the problem where some commercials were a lot louder than the stream volume or instances where the mute button did not work for them?
On December 21 2013 05:19 iMech wrote: It's not clear from the linked site how the MLG streaming service will be differentiated from the service that Twitch already provides. I could see some opportunities for improving on the Twitch service, but I'm really curious what would draw someone to the MLG service instead. I could see a higher ad revenue being the draw, but I would expect that there would need to be more.
Out strategy is to bring in what we can support. If we can't sell enough advertising, then we won't bring in more streamers. If we can't provide individual, personalized attention to each partner then we're doing too much. If viewers are lagging and having a bad experience, then we have too many folks streaming on our site; unacceptable.
We want to approach each streamer as a partner and work with them on streaming, merchandise, licensing, digital licensing, etc.
On December 21 2013 05:28 sumsaR wrote: I do hope there'll be a non-twitter alternative for a chat. The chat and the interactivity it brings is a large part of why I enjoy watching streams. What the MLG.tv player does with Twitter-based chats with hashtags is pretty awful for that, I'm afraid.
On December 21 2013 05:33 gold_ wrote: Assuming it will have subscriptions like Twitch.tv has, will MLG look into accepting Bitcoin as payment threw Coinbase or Bitpay?
On December 21 2013 05:51 TanGeng wrote: I looked over the release again. It's mostly geared towards content creators (pro-gamers, streamers, and events).
Is there a reason why viewers might prefer MLG.tv, too? As this AMA seems to be geared towards fans and spectators, instead, do you have something prepared for this audience?
For starters we hope to have stable service on our streams using Akamai, the #1 CDN in the world.
Beyond that we also hope to work with the streamers to have not only regularly scheduled content, but to create an experience with them. Whether that experience entails something retail focused (merch, licensing, etc), VOD, or lifestyle (Relativity is focused on creating lifestyle content with our partners), we hope to create a 360 degree interaction for fans and streamers.
On December 21 2013 05:58 opisska wrote: Any competition for Twitch is like a gift from heaven. Maybe MLG is a strong enough company to finally bring one to the table instead of just promises? Then noone will be able to make excuses that there is no alternative to the horrible twitch service. Of course, if you fail to cater to European customers in the same way as twitch does, you'll be damned forever.
Again, I think we're good in EU by leveraging Akamai
You guys have been digging into Smash recently, will you also be digging into Hearthstone as well? Can MLG.tv be used for someone else to run their own online tournament for their game of choice?
On December 21 2013 05:58 opisska wrote: Any competition for Twitch is like a gift from heaven. Maybe MLG is a strong enough company to finally bring one to the table instead of just promises? Then noone will be able to make excuses that there is no alternative to the horrible twitch service. Of course, if you fail to cater to European customers in the same way as twitch does, you'll be damned forever.
Well since the OP said there are only a set # of spots available for streamers and the partnership is not exclusive I don't really think it will be much of a competition for Twitch. Rather they will work in parallel. Now to the question: Has a thought of actually expanding this service to work as a public streaming platform with select partnerships (akin to Twitch, Afreeca) ever appear?
I don't think we will be a public streaming platform anytime in the near future (or ever). It is not what we want to be.
On December 21 2013 13:17 Seeker wrote: Mad respect to Adam for replying to all the comments. Wow... Oo;;
I have been looking forward to it. He replies to them all on reddit as well and the responses are pretty funny, as rational answers to middle school questions are normally are.
It's also interesting to consider that with Twitch there's the convenience as all the personalities, tournaments, etc can be followed as well as streams of average joes that may be entertaining as well all in one place. It also hasn't lagged much in the US (at least in Ohio) at all. Of course that is not to say Twitch has no issues or it should have a monopoly, I'm just putting it out there is all. Unrelated but this MLG Columbus would have been the first live event I could have gone to =(
On December 21 2013 05:58 opisska wrote: Any competition for Twitch is like a gift from heaven. Maybe MLG is a strong enough company to finally bring one to the table instead of just promises? Then noone will be able to make excuses that there is no alternative to the horrible twitch service. Of course, if you fail to cater to European customers in the same way as twitch does, you'll be damned forever.
Well since the OP said there are only a set # of spots available for streamers and the partnership is not exclusive I don't really think it will be much of a competition for Twitch. Rather they will work in parallel. Now to the question: Has a thought of actually expanding this service to work as a public streaming platform with select partnerships (akin to Twitch, Afreeca) ever appear?
This is just pure speculation on my part, but I think thats the end game.
If MLG made it a free-for-all right from the beginning, there would be nothing unique about the service, and most of the bigger streamers would be reluctant to move to a different streaming platform for the risk of losing their subscriber base. By making it seem exclusive and offering some production assistance (? not sure about this), they hope to get the bigger streamers only, and as the viewer numbers increase (along with demand), they will gradually move towards making it a public streaming platform. Its a marketing move, and also lets them scale their streaming platform gradually IMO. (think about gmail launch)
Think about it like this, and bear with my 'I'm from a village in Ohio' example. When a family makes a decision to have another child, the decision (when it is a planned decision ) revolves around one thing: can we feed another mouth? As silly as that example seems and utterly ridiculous in terms of what we're discussing, it is actually spot on to what we DON'T WANT TO DO. We don't want to open our doors to thousands of streamers and not be able to sell the requisite advertising to support each and every one of them.
So no, we don't want to be an open ended platform. We want to be a premium platform for premium streamers. We want those streamers to know they make real money when they press the ad button and we want fans to know they can tune in at regularly scheduled times to find entertainment.
I am definitely sad that MLG dropped SC2 because that's how I grew up in SC2 - with MLG and SC2, but business is business I guess. I hope they can make an astronomically better streaming service than twitch, DailyMotion and co.
Making the streams easier to embed on TL would be great too, we had some issues during MLG Dota.
On December 21 2013 06:41 njt7 wrote: Nice, twitch needs some competition. I thought the stream for the most recent mlg dota2 event was awesome(sorry brahs im bad with names). The stream was awesome because of the quality and non stuttering that I have been getting pretty frustrated with over time when watching through twitch.
I know you wanted questions, but I will give you a request instead. Multiple audio sources for one video stream could be really cool. Ill give a few scenarios: 1. One dedicated camera man/woman, different casting languages who doesnt need to think about smooth camera movement etc. 2. Team audio communication, geting the live audio from the players themselves would to me be invaluable and might for the first time make me pay top dollar for dota content.
On December 21 2013 06:43 Prophanity wrote: Congrats on the launch! I'm happy to see you guys venturing into new areas. With that said, I can't support this personally as I'm already very invested in Twitch. Further, the rather...fluid nature of MLG makes me hesitant. In the years to come, if this becomes a proven entity and current trends change, so be it, though admittedly I am doubtful.
Regardless, competition fosters innovation and the lack thereof breeds complacency. I look forward to what comes from this.
Edit: Read the following: "To be clear – the MLG streaming platform isn’t for everyone. We have no intention of opening it up to the masses. We do however intend to fill a fixed number of spots with established pro players, pro teams and established gaming personalities with substantial followings, as well as feature other eSports competitions. Why? Because we believe that premium content producers deserve a premium content distribution platform."
Ugh. That feels even worse. I understand the intent but it comes off a bit elitist. The established pros that stream on Twitch are expected to come over to your platform where, I feel, they will stagnate and die. It's the wide reach and volume of streamers available to watch that helps to increase the viewership of these "established personalities." I'd have to think long and hard if I were one such person.
I've covered the why they should come over quite a few times but I'll add something else, and this is directed strictly towards the streamer. Guaranteed CPMs are great, but without guaranteed fill rates they don't mean shit. We will work with streamers to forecast what pressing the ad button actually means.
On December 21 2013 06:44 vooner wrote: It says that "Event Operator with live broadcast capability" under requirements, will this mean there may be non MLG tournament streams on MLG.tv?
Definitely!
We already have 2 signed up: Gfinity and UMG (both CoD events)
We are announcing another event shortly that is not CoD
On December 21 2013 06:49 ReachTheSky wrote: do you already have everything figured out or are you releasing a half assed service in which you do not fully understand how to run while trying to utilize the people streaming for feedback to figure it out?
User was temp banned for this post.
Our engineering team hails from some of the best companies in the world in addition to the main engineer from Own3d TV. We have an amazing team working on our platform.
On December 21 2013 06:53 Plansix wrote: Adamn, really pumped about the streaming platform. What devices are you looking at to get your stream to the people? Is Roku an option? I want MLG on my tv, but don't want to use my jet engine Xbox.
Mobile app
Xbox App
Xbox1 app
Roku
Appletv
All in the dev pipeline and will be rolling out through Q1 and Q2
On December 21 2013 06:54 Smurfett3 wrote: sounds liek a twitchtv on crack cocaine. I just hope there wont be so many laggy stream problems, thats my one hope.
ALso love the idea of merchandising ! Let's get some dumuslim plushies yo
I envision a world where you can watch your favorite player and then click on his merch, XBL avatar, Steam product, etc.
On December 21 2013 07:07 HaRuHi wrote: So is this an alternative to twitch? If so, great! They were really abusing their monopoly, if not, what exactly is this?
It is a place to watch premium streamers. So yes in that regard.
On December 21 2013 07:20 Jinsho wrote: If sponsored streamers are part of your envisaged customer user base, how will sponsor issues be resolved?
How is MLG.tv going to be held responsible for individual misbehaviour? Twitch has a dedicated support team for stream or chat abuse, who are also helping with stream setups, DDOS etc : is MLG able to offer the same?
Is this part of a bigger drive towards expansion of the MLG brand into providing esports infrastructure, or is this just a small side-project without any real strategy or thought behind it? I would be interested to find out what your long-term forecast for the service is.
There are no sponsor issues, everything is in bounds.
Every streamer will have a personal producer that helps them with everything from set up, to advertising, to reporting, to technical issues.
This is the backbone of our business. We’ve been ebita positive for the last two quarters; We expect to stay ebita positive on a quarterly basis in 2014. We are going to be rolling out MUCH MORE to layer on top of the player in line with the 'infrastructure' you alluded to.
On December 21 2013 07:22 Badjas wrote: Awesome, MLG! Twitch could really use some competition.
Question one: Will you make sure noscript (firefox addon) users can watch your streams? (I will watch your commercials if I don't have to allow third party servers.)
I would ask a question about the length of the trial period (before you decide to pull the plug or keep it in), but I guess it'd make bad business sense to share those details.
Best of luck
Edit: Guess this is Youtube based.. they are big enough as is. wish another player would enter the market.. now I'm conflicted.
Question 1: Hmm not sure about that one, I'll ask my devs when they're awake.
Question 2: We're not pulling the plug. We have been working on this for over a year, it is intertwined with who we are we as a company
Edit answer: Not youtube based outside of VoD. We created our own player from scratch with in house engineers and the lead engineer from own3d.tv
On December 21 2013 08:41 TexasToast wrote: I would describe most MLG tournaments streams as mediocre at best. They have always been plagued by a crappy website and stuttering problems. Hopefully this will improve on those issues and force some competitive improvements in all the streaming websites.
Well all MLG tournaments prior to Columbus were on other platforms so you're actually attacking other services not MLG
On December 21 2013 09:02 Sermokala wrote: Would be interested in the support for fringe services (chromebook, ipad, and various mobile platforms) seeing how it uses youtube but how much might be proprietary and how much might be just youtube.
On December 21 2013 10:43 DDie wrote: If it's anything like the streaming platform from columbus... oh boy.
Outside of ads being too loud and the mute button, what other problems did you have? The ad volume issue is something that has plagued Pro Circuit events for years and we finally fixed it on Sunday at columbus after years of banging on it.
*warning production nerd out incoming*
Basically the program out volume was getting drastically lowered when it left the audio board and hit the encoder. So we would have to nearly red line/crank out the source audio to compensate. What this created was ads coming in from ad networks outside of the encounter on a whole different plane of audio blasting folks ears out. FINALLY we found a setting in our encoder that fixed this issue and normalized volume.
On December 21 2013 11:02 nachtkap wrote: -Why should I as viewer think that the particular streamer I like made the right choice with MLG? Why should I chose that MLG streamer over a twitch (or youtube) streamer.
-Assuming I like two streamers equally, why should I chose the one that stream through MLG?
-What is the benefit for streamers and audience when they chose MLG over (or in addition to) twitch and youtube?
-In the past there were multiple non severe problems with MLG rules and products that you seemed resistant to change. Why should people TRUST that issues will be fixed and stuff changed to reflect the wishes of the users?
For me (trying) to trust MLG has been a roller coaster ride. Faux pas followed by trust building followed by faux pas ad infinitum. (As far as faux pas go.... why would I want to see MLGs latest tweet+ads before I can look at details of your announcement and why aren't those details in your post?)
-For starters the stream should be stable up to 1080p. Outside of that, by streaming on MLG we can help that streamer make substantially more money. Why is that important to a viewer? Because the streamer is able to support himself via an endeavor you enjoy.
-You should choose MLG because you enjoy the experience provided.
-Streamers benefit via increased monetization and support. Fans enjoy a stable streaming experience and hopefully a more scheduled offering.
On December 21 2013 13:11 Saryph wrote: I really enjoyed the recent Dota 2 tournament and my experience with it's stream was a good one.
Have you made any progress fixing the problem where some commercials were a lot louder than the stream volume or instances where the mute button did not work for them?
Yes on both issues. I covered the ad volume thing on another post.
On December 21 2013 13:19 Plansix wrote: You guys have been digging into Smash recently, will you also be digging into Hearthstone as well? Can MLG.tv be used for someone else to run their own online tournament for their game of choice?
Yes on hearthstone, would love to do more.
Yes on other tournaments utilizing MLG.tv or someone running an online tournament on it.
On December 21 2013 13:24 tomastaz wrote: It's also interesting to consider that with Twitch there's the convenience as all the personalities, tournaments, etc can be followed as well as streams of average joes that may be entertaining as well all in one place. It also hasn't lagged much in the US (at least in Ohio) at all. Of course that is not to say Twitch has no issues or it should have a monopoly, I'm just putting it out there is all. Unrelated but this MLG Columbus would have been the first live event I could have gone to =(
Wow, that was a pretty heroic effort to answer almost everything, even the haters. Well done!
I hope you guys can put at least a little heat on twitch. Some healthy competition is good for everyone. I remember not too long ago when twitch was the service everyone was cheering for, and now it seems they've turned into the villains. Oh internet, how quick you are to damn the things you once loved...
A couple of months ago I posed a question why aren't large CDNs being used for SC2 streaming and I was told by everyone that it is too expensive, that esports is to small, that ... whatever, MLG showng that it can be done! I am really looking forward to this.
This may have been asked before, but will MLG be doing subscriptions, similar to those on Twitch, to individual streamers? Or will there be a plan for the whole of the website?
On December 21 2013 11:02 nachtkap wrote: -Why should I as viewer think that the particular streamer I like made the right choice with MLG? Why should I chose that MLG streamer over a twitch (or youtube) streamer.
-Assuming I like two streamers equally, why should I chose the one that stream through MLG?
-What is the benefit for streamers and audience when they chose MLG over (or in addition to) twitch and youtube?
-In the past there were multiple non severe problems with MLG rules and products that you seemed resistant to change. Why should people TRUST that issues will be fixed and stuff changed to reflect the wishes of the users?
For me (trying) to trust MLG has been a roller coaster ride. Faux pas followed by trust building followed by faux pas ad infinitum. (As far as faux pas go.... why would I want to see MLGs latest tweet+ads before I can look at details of your announcement and why aren't those details in your post?)
-For starters the stream should be stable up to 1080p. Outside of that, by streaming on MLG we can help that streamer make substantially more money. Why is that important to a viewer? Because the streamer is able to support himself via an endeavor you enjoy.
-You should choose MLG because you enjoy the experience provided.
-Streamers benefit via increased monetization and support. Fans enjoy a stable streaming experience and hopefully a more scheduled offering.
I just realized that I might have perceived this whole thing wrong. Is this supposed to be more of a TV station approach instead of a 'fling-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks' youtube/twitch approach? I that light it all makes sense.
-Can you elaborate? Do you mean extended series?
Yes the extended series is what primarily prompted it. There are quite a few others or I wouldn't have asked this. A list is needed I suppose. -extended series. -Avoidable Demon controversy, because your DotA2 rules that where trying to reinvent the wheel. Why would teams need to register five replacements before the tournament. Starladder has been at this the longest and they specifically make do without it (unlimited replacements, I checked). -I remember TLO saying MLG wouldn't allow him to switch races depending on the match up. Either true random, Terran or Zerg but not pick and chose. -The l̶o̶v̶e̶d̶ MLG website and player of 2011 (and 2012?) -Sticking to outdated maps like Shakuras Plateau way longer then anyone else. -Balance of hype vs community feedback being off. MLG Arena hype hype hype without at least mentioning that you might have to change payment structure. There were other instances but those examples best illustrate my point (or I cant remember them right now). After listing all of that I realize that it pretty much all comes down to community feedback lacking at times. At no point did (or indeed could) slasher or itmejp explain the reasoning behind issues that arose.
everyone mad as hell, just for the love of god dont support it then! Do not even view the website!
i would like to see what this is and how it helps the gaming community as a whole but lets face it, im the most die hard to sc2 fans and even i recognize that the game is loosing a lot of interest now, 4 teams gone in a month . . . sc and sc2 may have just about had its day competitively
On December 21 2013 07:20 Jinsho wrote: If sponsored streamers are part of your envisaged customer user base, how will sponsor issues be resolved?
How is MLG.tv going to be held responsible for individual misbehaviour? Twitch has a dedicated support team for stream or chat abuse, who are also helping with stream setups, DDOS etc : is MLG able to offer the same?
Is this part of a bigger drive towards expansion of the MLG brand into providing esports infrastructure, or is this just a small side-project without any real strategy or thought behind it? I would be interested to find out what your long-term forecast for the service is.
There are no sponsor issues, everything is in bounds.
Every streamer will have a personal producer that helps them with everything from set up, to advertising, to reporting, to technical issues.
This is the backbone of our business. We’ve been ebita positive for the last two quarters; We expect to stay ebita positive on a quarterly basis in 2014. We are going to be rolling out MUCH MORE to layer on top of the player in line with the 'infrastructure' you alluded to.
That's some good stuff, thanks for answering my questions Adam.
On December 21 2013 11:02 nachtkap wrote: -Why should I as viewer think that the particular streamer I like made the right choice with MLG? Why should I chose that MLG streamer over a twitch (or youtube) streamer.
-Assuming I like two streamers equally, why should I chose the one that stream through MLG?
-What is the benefit for streamers and audience when they chose MLG over (or in addition to) twitch and youtube?
-In the past there were multiple non severe problems with MLG rules and products that you seemed resistant to change. Why should people TRUST that issues will be fixed and stuff changed to reflect the wishes of the users?
For me (trying) to trust MLG has been a roller coaster ride. Faux pas followed by trust building followed by faux pas ad infinitum. (As far as faux pas go.... why would I want to see MLGs latest tweet+ads before I can look at details of your announcement and why aren't those details in your post?)
-For starters the stream should be stable up to 1080p. Outside of that, by streaming on MLG we can help that streamer make substantially more money. Why is that important to a viewer? Because the streamer is able to support himself via an endeavor you enjoy.
-You should choose MLG because you enjoy the experience provided.
-Streamers benefit via increased monetization and support. Fans enjoy a stable streaming experience and hopefully a more scheduled offering.
I just realized that I might have perceived this whole thing wrong. Is this supposed to be more of a TV station approach instead of a 'fling-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks' youtube/twitch approach? I that light it all makes sense.
Yes the extended series is what primarily prompted it. There are quite a few others or I wouldn't have asked this. A list is needed I suppose. -extended series. -Avoidable Demon controversy, because your DotA2 rules that where trying to reinvent the wheel. Why would teams need to register five replacements before the tournament. Starladder has been at this the longest and they specifically make do without it (unlimited replacements, I checked). -I remember TLO saying MLG wouldn't allow him to switch races depending on the match up. Either true random, Terran or Zerg but not pick and chose. -The l̶o̶v̶e̶d̶ MLG website and player of 2011 (and 2012?) -Sticking to outdated maps like Shakuras Plateau way longer then anyone else. -Balance of hype vs community feedback being off. MLG Arena hype hype hype without at least mentioning that you might have to change payment structure. There were other instances but those examples best illustrate my point (or I cant remember them right now). After listing all of that I realize that it pretty much all comes down to community feedback lacking at times. At no point did (or indeed could) slasher or itmejp explain the reasoning behind issues that arose.
-Extended series- Agree to disagree. I see both sides of the argument but there are far worse (IMO) tournament rules and formats in place by other organizations that seem to go under the radar. We feel that if you are eliminated by someone in double elimination that the player advancing should have won more total games. All that being said, we have listened to feedback and have removed Extended series.
-Demon situation. Sorry but I have no regrets about that situation. I stand by our ruling and would do it again in a heart beat. We are not going to operate a professional tournament with unlimited, unregistered, oft times random subs. I'm sorry if that answer is direct, but it is what it is.
-I don't recall TLO, or anyone, being denied the ability to change races in a tournament. Maybe it was mid series, but even then I'm not sure what the exact rules state (would have to ask our tournament ops team)
-The MLG player of 2011 and 2012 was served via satellite/stream works in conjunction with Twitch/Owned. Not sure what you mean here.
-Not sure what you mean by the Arena hype comment
So many stories have become 'fact' within the community, mainly because we never said otherwise or shared our side of things. That is on us for not communicating enough and today we reap that harvest (as you can see in this thread). In any case I created this thread to discuss our player and I would appreciate staying on topic. Have a great holiday!
On December 21 2013 19:08 TheMightyCabeld wrote: Adam <3
This may have been asked before, but will MLG be doing subscriptions, similar to those on Twitch, to individual streamers? Or will there be a plan for the whole of the website?
We're still assessing this based on feedback/input from our incoming streaming partners.
I really enjoyed your Dota 2 content over the last couple months and want to thank you for the hard work you put in and your availability to the community. You have been responding on the dota2 subreddit quite extensively and I want to thank you for it and say GJ!
Now down to the questions. So I've been hearing you talk a lot about Q1 and Q2 apps for Roku, XB1, XB360, etc and I want to know if you guys plan on releasing any app for the PS4 and if so when should we expect it? For some reason I feel like you guys are in cahoots with XB so is that why there are no apps for PS3/PS4?
I really enjoyed your Dota 2 content over the last couple months and want to thank you for the hard work you put in and your availability to the community. You have been responding on the dota2 subreddit quite extensively and I want to thank you for it and say GJ!
Now down to the questions. So I've been hearing you talk a lot about Q1 and Q2 apps for Roku, XB1, XB360, etc and I want to know if you guys plan on releasing any app for the PS4 and if so when should we expect it? For some reason I feel like you guys are in cahoots with XB so is that why there are no apps for PS3/PS4?
Thank you!
We're definitely looking at a PS4 app but it is down the development list
You drop SC2, tell us over twitter and now you come here asking us to use your streaming service? why should I do that? What could your site possible offer that is better than twitch or could apologize for dropping sc2 the way you guys did?
warned for this? come on nazi mods MLG dropped sc2 and now they're coming back asking for us to use their service? not a chance. especially after being dropped over fucking twitter User was warned for this post
On December 22 2013 02:34 Ziggles wrote: You drop SC2, tell us over twitter and now you come here asking us to use your streaming service? why should I do that? What could your site possible offer that is better than twitch or could apologize for dropping sc2 the way you guys did?
Are trolls making new accounts after getting warned? Sad.
Do you transcode everything sent to you like YouTube? 60fps available? I assume you still have to use Flash/RTMP like everyone else or do I dare to hope you've managed to do something else? Using HLS like Twitch/other services that add lots of delay?
I probably have more technical questions, but this is good to start
PS: <3 Adam and all your hard work. Hoping MLG can return to SC2 content in 2014.
On December 22 2013 02:34 Ziggles wrote: You drop SC2, tell us over twitter and now you come here asking us to use your streaming service? why should I do that? What could your site possible offer that is better than twitch or could apologize for dropping sc2 the way you guys did?
User was warned for this post
A better troll would actually have a good argument, you know .
I just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work you've put into reaching out to the community as I'm sure you have other things to do on top of this, so I really appreciate it.
As for a question - are there any plans for adding a feature like what Youtube Live has, where you can scroll back through the stream and buffer until live time? From my somewhat limited understanding this seems like an extremely extensive feature, though I always enjoyed it when I found myself on Azubu and/or Youtube Live.
I look forward to seeing what you and MLG have cooked up for 2014 - keep up the good work!
On December 21 2013 04:01 LongShot27 wrote: Why does this have an Sc2 icon next to it, I hate to be that guy but MLG has completely dropped SC2, please fix that
User was warned for this post
We can still stream SC2 events that others run or work with Sc2 streamers. Also, no one said we 'dropped' SC2 forever. WCS is doing great, we'll try to pop in where we're needed.
I need you to pop into New England... and run a massive open bracket tournament again so I can go.
No SC2 tournament was as exciting to watch, as the old MLG events.
Since you're saying the number of streamers will be scaled to offer the perfect amount of adds/bandwith/etc. does this mean streamers could potentially be kicked if e.g. a new game gains lots of (unexpected) viewers?
Why is this labeled SC2 when all the people that mention StarCraft get warned and banned? If MLG doesnt want to support the SC2 scene which they clearly don't, then they shouldnt try to come back for every penny they missed. This thread is just an example of how bad the nazi TL mods can be, forcing us all to have a nice happy conversation about MLG when they dont deserve that.
Akamai is definitely a good idea; they got more bandwidth than god and good peering all over the world. The "competing streaming service" has been horrible for the past 6 months for me, to the point I sometimes just browse Youtube instead. The MLG Dota2 tournament streamed just fine on highest quality.
On December 22 2013 08:22 TheQuenster wrote: Why is this labeled SC2 when all the people that mention StarCraft get warned and banned? If MLG doesnt want to support the SC2 scene which they clearly don't, then they shouldnt try to come back for every penny they missed. This thread is just an example of how bad the nazi TL mods can be, forcing us all to have a nice happy conversation about MLG when they dont deserve that.
:^)
It's been said a ton of times, and it will probably continue being said.
TL is the one who puts the SC2/Dota/BW labels on news post. Adam had nothing to do with that.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, (clearly you haven't) this got posted in the TL COMMUNITY forum, which is...you know, not game specific.
Congratulations on pointing out how TL mods are nazis and feeling good about yourself, when you're 100% incorrect with your statement. Have a nice day.
Good luck Adam, you may have answered this previously but are you guys pushing VODs through to Youtube or what is the deal there?
Great the one platform that has a history of working worse than twitch. Prove me wrong Adam and co, we need some competition in the streaming business.
On December 21 2013 11:02 nachtkap wrote: -Why should I as viewer think that the particular streamer I like made the right choice with MLG? Why should I chose that MLG streamer over a twitch (or youtube) streamer.
-Assuming I like two streamers equally, why should I chose the one that stream through MLG?
-What is the benefit for streamers and audience when they chose MLG over (or in addition to) twitch and youtube?
-In the past there were multiple non severe problems with MLG rules and products that you seemed resistant to change. Why should people TRUST that issues will be fixed and stuff changed to reflect the wishes of the users?
For me (trying) to trust MLG has been a roller coaster ride. Faux pas followed by trust building followed by faux pas ad infinitum. (As far as faux pas go.... why would I want to see MLGs latest tweet+ads before I can look at details of your announcement and why aren't those details in your post?)
-For starters the stream should be stable up to 1080p. Outside of that, by streaming on MLG we can help that streamer make substantially more money. Why is that important to a viewer? Because the streamer is able to support himself via an endeavor you enjoy.
-You should choose MLG because you enjoy the experience provided.
-Streamers benefit via increased monetization and support. Fans enjoy a stable streaming experience and hopefully a more scheduled offering.
I just realized that I might have perceived this whole thing wrong. Is this supposed to be more of a TV station approach instead of a 'fling-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks' youtube/twitch approach? I that light it all makes sense.
-Can you elaborate? Do you mean extended series?
Yes the extended series is what primarily prompted it. There are quite a few others or I wouldn't have asked this. A list is needed I suppose. -extended series. -Avoidable Demon controversy, because your DotA2 rules that where trying to reinvent the wheel. Why would teams need to register five replacements before the tournament. Starladder has been at this the longest and they specifically make do without it (unlimited replacements, I checked). -I remember TLO saying MLG wouldn't allow him to switch races depending on the match up. Either true random, Terran or Zerg but not pick and chose. -The l̶o̶v̶e̶d̶ MLG website and player of 2011 (and 2012?) -Sticking to outdated maps like Shakuras Plateau way longer then anyone else. -Balance of hype vs community feedback being off. MLG Arena hype hype hype without at least mentioning that you might have to change payment structure. There were other instances but those examples best illustrate my point (or I cant remember them right now). After listing all of that I realize that it pretty much all comes down to community feedback lacking at times. At no point did (or indeed could) slasher or itmejp explain the reasoning behind issues that arose.
-Extended series- Agree to disagree. I see both sides of the argument but there are far worse (IMO) tournament rules and formats in place by other organizations that seem to go under the radar. We feel that if you are eliminated by someone in double elimination that the player advancing should have won more total games. All that being said, we have listened to feedback and have removed Extended series.
-Demon situation. Sorry but I have no regrets about that situation. I stand by our ruling and would do it again in a heart beat. We are not going to operate a professional tournament with unlimited, unregistered, oft times random subs. I'm sorry if that answer is direct, but it is what it is.
-I don't recall TLO, or anyone, being denied the ability to change races in a tournament. Maybe it was mid series, but even then I'm not sure what the exact rules state (would have to ask our tournament ops team)
-The MLG player of 2011 and 2012 was served via satellite/stream works in conjunction with Twitch/Owned. Not sure what you mean here.
-Not sure what you mean by the Arena hype comment
I could elaborate on on my points but it would steer this thread off topic even more, as you rightly pointed out.
So many stories have become 'fact' within the community, mainly because we never said otherwise or shared our side of things. That is on us for not communicating enough and today we reap that harvest (as you can see in this thread). In any case I created this thread to discuss our player and I would appreciate staying on topic. Have a great holiday!
Your lack of communication was the exact thing I was trying to get at with my 'trust in MLG' thing. Every time MLG caught flak for something I sat there thinking 'wtf are you trying to pull now MLG?', at first. After my initial rage passed I managed to see hints of a well thought through reasoning. Clear cut reasoning like you just provided.
I admit I might have been a bit to vague in my phrasing. The real question I was trying to get at was: why should I 'trust MLG' to be proactive in explaining controversial decisions? I get the feeling that it is only a matter of time until there is some controversy that would seem like you hung a streamer out to dry.
As someone who was brought into eSports via Halo, I can't help but laugh at the amount of irony in this thread when I think back to when MLG dropped Halo.
I haven't watched MLG events much since they integrated their forums with the GB forums, but I do wish you guys luck on this. Hopefully, you can pull this off without as many quirks as Twitch has.
To all haters: Flaming organisations that have dropped SC2 is a good way to stop any organisation from picking up SC2 in the future, for the fear of backlash should they have to drop it one day. What we should do instead is continue to support organisations who have once supported SC2 to let them know that sponsoring SC2 was a right choice, and entice them to come back again.
On December 22 2013 14:50 Pangpootata wrote: To all haters: Flaming organisations that have dropped SC2 is a good way to stop any organisation from picking up SC2 in the future, for the fear of backlash should they have to drop it one day. What we should do instead is continue to support organisations who have once supported SC2 to let them know that sponsoring SC2 was a right choice, and entice them to come back again.
Mm I dunno, is it really our "duty" to do that? As a community you might argue, perhaps it would be a mature thing to do, for sure (Sc2 / BW community is loyal to a fault almost. )Plus we are a bunch of nice ppl generally. But as a paying customer for all things sc2 related (we are talking generous stream donations, hrs on TL and streams, I stream myself, buying stuff from TL store, thousands of euros on computer parts that only support my fav teams/players), I cant help but feel that the MLG brand (for me personally) isnt what it has been. I pride myself in being in a sc2 community and being a loyal consumer.
I wish them the best of luck tho, and hope that this new streaming platform which can rival twitchtvs (as competition) is always good. And if they offer a good product I see no harm in it.
On December 22 2013 14:50 Pangpootata wrote: To all haters: Flaming organisations that have dropped SC2 is a good way to stop any organisation from picking up SC2 in the future, for the fear of backlash should they have to drop it one day. What we should do instead is continue to support organisations who have once supported SC2 to let them know that sponsoring SC2 was a right choice, and entice them to come back again.
Mm I dunno, is it really our "duty" to do that? As a community you might argue, perhaps it would be a mature thing to do, for sure (Sc2 / BW community is loyal to a fault almost. )Plus we are a bunch of nice ppl generally. But as a paying customer for all things sc2 related (we are talking generous stream donations, hrs on TL and streams, I stream myself, buying stuff from TL store, thousands of euros on computer parts that only support my fav teams/players), I cant help but feel that the MLG brand (for me personally) isnt what it has been. I pride myself in being in a sc2 community and being a loyal consumer.
I wish them the best of luck tho, and hope that this new streaming platform which can rival twitchtvs (as competition) is always good. And if they offer a good product I see no harm in it.
Oh no, I actually agree with Pangpootata. I personally find it fucking embarassing that two of the first posts in this thread are "༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE STARCRAFT" and "What is your favorite brand of tampons?"; not forgetting the first four pages being full of red posts either issued temp-bans or warnings either.
I linked this thread on /r/starcraft and was downvoted because the subreddit hates my presence (long story I won't go into but a vast majority of posts I make on /r/starcraft get downvote brigaded or just outright flamed because I've made opinions on the game's design considered controversial, I've even had posts telling me I should delete my reddit account or go kill myself) and because apparently "Sundance is a fucking tool" even though these self-entitled fucks have been shitting on MLG because WCS America S1 didn't meet their ultra-high standards.
Based on the amount of QQ about Twitch.tv, and the outcry for a Twitch competitior; I find it ludicrous the community bites my hand off when I suggest a competitor. Hashd? Nobody uses it, therefore it's shit; an attitude which unsurprisingly caused the site to shut down with no word a few months ago because nobody even remotely considered the site. Hitbox? Noooooo, it's being run by the CFO of Own3D and apparently they're a bunch of scam artists.
As far as I'm concerned; if the community collectively acts this entitled and bites a helping hand this ferociously, as they've done with MLG, it's just propping up the harbingers who are crying out "dead game" whether as part of some intentional reddit circlejerk to acquire downvotes or because there's been a decline in tournaments and viewership.
Excuse the long post. I actually have one question, MLGAdam. Do you have any plans to extend MLG's streaming platform beyond "100 featured streamers?"
I like the fact MLG are willing to be helpful towards personal streamers but I feel like what Twitch needs as a competitor is a completely open platform and not just an Azubu clone (that differentiates itself through acquiring exclusive streamers and being run by a totally legitimate and non-shady company.)
Everyone dropped WC3, should I be mad at all the tournament organisers? No, it's a business. And MLG didn't start as a SC2 organisation, people might attribute a lot of it's growth to SC2 but I find it to be quite coincidental with the rise in online streaming and eSports in general. If TL drops SC, be rightfully mad. If IEM, MLG, Dreamhack, or whatever drops SC2 then be reasonable, they have all dropped several games before to the dismay of that games audience.
Anyway Adam. What I'm most curious about is how you plan on actually getting viewers to these streams. The biggest issue with sites like YouTube or Twitch is that if you don't agree with their policies or you don't like the service they provide, the other options really aren't financially viable simply because if content discovery. A lot of sites offer better rates than YouTube for video content, but none allow you to find content as easily and have as big of a userbase to where you don't need to heavily advertise to get your work out there. If there weren't fighting game tournaments on Twitch would I have ever watched one? Probably not.
On December 22 2013 06:36 Broodwurst wrote: Since you're saying the number of streamers will be scaled to offer the perfect amount of adds/bandwith/etc. does this mean streamers could potentially be kicked if e.g. a new game gains lots of (unexpected) viewers?
I don't know if folks would be kicked. The only way that would happen is if they stopped streaming regularly.
On December 22 2013 08:22 TheQuenster wrote: Why is this labeled SC2 when all the people that mention StarCraft get warned and banned? If MLG doesnt want to support the SC2 scene which they clearly don't, then they shouldnt try to come back for every penny they missed. This thread is just an example of how bad the nazi TL mods can be, forcing us all to have a nice happy conversation about MLG when they dont deserve that.
:^)
It's been said a ton of times, and it will probably continue being said.
TL is the one who puts the SC2/Dota/BW labels on news post. Adam had nothing to do with that.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, (clearly you haven't) this got posted in the TL COMMUNITY forum, which is...you know, not game specific.
Congratulations on pointing out how TL mods are nazis and feeling good about yourself, when you're 100% incorrect with your statement. Have a nice day.
Good luck Adam, you may have answered this previously but are you guys pushing VODs through to Youtube or what is the deal there?
We will push VOD through Youtube and MLG, 100% free.
On December 22 2013 09:46 Jaaaaasper wrote: Great the one platform that has a history of working worse than twitch. Prove me wrong Adam and co, we need some competition in the streaming business.
I always appreciate the challenge However, just so we're clear, we did not start using our own player until September this year. In the past we used the Streamworks player or Twitch/Own3d.
On December 21 2013 11:02 nachtkap wrote: -Why should I as viewer think that the particular streamer I like made the right choice with MLG? Why should I chose that MLG streamer over a twitch (or youtube) streamer.
-Assuming I like two streamers equally, why should I chose the one that stream through MLG?
-What is the benefit for streamers and audience when they chose MLG over (or in addition to) twitch and youtube?
-In the past there were multiple non severe problems with MLG rules and products that you seemed resistant to change. Why should people TRUST that issues will be fixed and stuff changed to reflect the wishes of the users?
For me (trying) to trust MLG has been a roller coaster ride. Faux pas followed by trust building followed by faux pas ad infinitum. (As far as faux pas go.... why would I want to see MLGs latest tweet+ads before I can look at details of your announcement and why aren't those details in your post?)
-For starters the stream should be stable up to 1080p. Outside of that, by streaming on MLG we can help that streamer make substantially more money. Why is that important to a viewer? Because the streamer is able to support himself via an endeavor you enjoy.
-You should choose MLG because you enjoy the experience provided.
-Streamers benefit via increased monetization and support. Fans enjoy a stable streaming experience and hopefully a more scheduled offering.
I just realized that I might have perceived this whole thing wrong. Is this supposed to be more of a TV station approach instead of a 'fling-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks' youtube/twitch approach? I that light it all makes sense.
-Can you elaborate? Do you mean extended series?
Yes the extended series is what primarily prompted it. There are quite a few others or I wouldn't have asked this. A list is needed I suppose. -extended series. -Avoidable Demon controversy, because your DotA2 rules that where trying to reinvent the wheel. Why would teams need to register five replacements before the tournament. Starladder has been at this the longest and they specifically make do without it (unlimited replacements, I checked). -I remember TLO saying MLG wouldn't allow him to switch races depending on the match up. Either true random, Terran or Zerg but not pick and chose. -The l̶o̶v̶e̶d̶ MLG website and player of 2011 (and 2012?) -Sticking to outdated maps like Shakuras Plateau way longer then anyone else. -Balance of hype vs community feedback being off. MLG Arena hype hype hype without at least mentioning that you might have to change payment structure. There were other instances but those examples best illustrate my point (or I cant remember them right now). After listing all of that I realize that it pretty much all comes down to community feedback lacking at times. At no point did (or indeed could) slasher or itmejp explain the reasoning behind issues that arose.
-Extended series- Agree to disagree. I see both sides of the argument but there are far worse (IMO) tournament rules and formats in place by other organizations that seem to go under the radar. We feel that if you are eliminated by someone in double elimination that the player advancing should have won more total games. All that being said, we have listened to feedback and have removed Extended series.
-Demon situation. Sorry but I have no regrets about that situation. I stand by our ruling and would do it again in a heart beat. We are not going to operate a professional tournament with unlimited, unregistered, oft times random subs. I'm sorry if that answer is direct, but it is what it is.
-I don't recall TLO, or anyone, being denied the ability to change races in a tournament. Maybe it was mid series, but even then I'm not sure what the exact rules state (would have to ask our tournament ops team)
-The MLG player of 2011 and 2012 was served via satellite/stream works in conjunction with Twitch/Owned. Not sure what you mean here.
-Not sure what you mean by the Arena hype comment
I could elaborate on on my points but it would steer this thread off topic even more, as you rightly pointed out.
So many stories have become 'fact' within the community, mainly because we never said otherwise or shared our side of things. That is on us for not communicating enough and today we reap that harvest (as you can see in this thread). In any case I created this thread to discuss our player and I would appreciate staying on topic. Have a great holiday!
Your lack of communication was the exact thing I was trying to get at with my 'trust in MLG' thing. Every time MLG caught flak for something I sat there thinking 'wtf are you trying to pull now MLG?', at first. After my initial rage passed I managed to see hints of a well thought through reasoning. Clear cut reasoning like you just provided.
I admit I might have been a bit to vague in my phrasing. The real question I was trying to get at was: why should I 'trust MLG' to be proactive in explaining controversial decisions? I get the feeling that it is only a matter of time until there is some controversy that would seem like you hung a streamer out to dry.
If something happens, you won't not see us communicating. Good or bad, you'll hear from us. I look forward to changing public opinion.
On December 22 2013 14:50 Pangpootata wrote: To all haters: Flaming organisations that have dropped SC2 is a good way to stop any organisation from picking up SC2 in the future, for the fear of backlash should they have to drop it one day. What we should do instead is continue to support organisations who have once supported SC2 to let them know that sponsoring SC2 was a right choice, and entice them to come back again.
Mm I dunno, is it really our "duty" to do that? As a community you might argue, perhaps it would be a mature thing to do, for sure (Sc2 / BW community is loyal to a fault almost. )Plus we are a bunch of nice ppl generally. But as a paying customer for all things sc2 related (we are talking generous stream donations, hrs on TL and streams, I stream myself, buying stuff from TL store, thousands of euros on computer parts that only support my fav teams/players), I cant help but feel that the MLG brand (for me personally) isnt what it has been. I pride myself in being in a sc2 community and being a loyal consumer.
I wish them the best of luck tho, and hope that this new streaming platform which can rival twitchtvs (as competition) is always good. And if they offer a good product I see no harm in it.
Oh no, I actually agree with Pangpootata. I personally find it fucking embarassing that two of the first posts in this thread are "༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE STARCRAFT" and "What is your favorite brand of tampons?"; not forgetting the first four pages being full of red posts either issued temp-bans or warnings either.
I linked this thread on /r/starcraft and was downvoted because the subreddit hates my presence (long story I won't go into but a vast majority of posts I make on /r/starcraft get downvote brigaded or just outright flamed because I've made opinions on the game's design considered controversial, I've even had posts telling me I should delete my reddit account or go kill myself) and because apparently "Sundance is a fucking tool" even though these self-entitled fucks have been shitting on MLG because WCS America S1 didn't meet their ultra-high standards.
Based on the amount of QQ about Twitch.tv, and the outcry for a Twitch competitior; I find it ludicrous the community bites my hand off when I suggest a competitor. Hashd? Nobody uses it, therefore it's shit; an attitude which unsurprisingly caused the site to shut down with no word a few months ago because nobody even remotely considered the site. Hitbox? Noooooo, it's being run by the CFO of Own3D and apparently they're a bunch of scam artists.
As far as I'm concerned; if the community collectively acts this entitled and bites a helping hand this ferociously, as they've done with MLG, it's just propping up the harbingers who are crying out "dead game" whether as part of some intentional reddit circlejerk to acquire downvotes or because there's been a decline in tournaments and viewership.
Excuse the long post. I actually have one question, MLGAdam. Do you have any plans to extend MLG's streaming platform beyond "100 featured streamers?"
I like the fact MLG are willing to be helpful towards personal streamers but I feel like what Twitch needs as a competitor is a completely open platform and not just an Azubu clone (that differentiates itself through acquiring exclusive streamers and being run by a totally legitimate and non-shady company.)
Hey there, thanks for the post. On the topic of opening up the platform a bit, I explained our vision on another post on this thread. The bottom line is when we're confident we'll be able to sustain the folks in the system, we'll consider expanding the offering. However, I don't ever see this as a completely open platform.
On December 22 2013 22:20 teapoted wrote: Everyone dropped WC3, should I be mad at all the tournament organisers? No, it's a business. And MLG didn't start as a SC2 organisation, people might attribute a lot of it's growth to SC2 but I find it to be quite coincidental with the rise in online streaming and eSports in general. If TL drops SC, be rightfully mad. If IEM, MLG, Dreamhack, or whatever drops SC2 then be reasonable, they have all dropped several games before to the dismay of that games audience.
Anyway Adam. What I'm most curious about is how you plan on actually getting viewers to these streams. The biggest issue with sites like YouTube or Twitch is that if you don't agree with their policies or you don't like the service they provide, the other options really aren't financially viable simply because if content discovery. A lot of sites offer better rates than YouTube for video content, but none allow you to find content as easily and have as big of a userbase to where you don't need to heavily advertise to get your work out there. If there weren't fighting game tournaments on Twitch would I have ever watched one? Probably not.
Great question. It is definitely going to be a challenge. We'll work with the streamers to leverage our social outreach, our 9million registered users, and any thing else at our disposal. In the future we will have a 'subscribe now' feature for streamers along with a redesigned website that will make finding streamers much easier.
something I heard 2gd talking bad about twitch is how awful their website looks like
I know at start you just want to stream big tournaments but in the future, if it works I think it is natural to turn into a twitch-like platform. Am I wrong?
Also, what support do you think you could give to viewers and to streamers that Twitch can't afford or doesn't have right now?
On December 21 2013 04:51 NKexquisite wrote: Eh, its no surprise they are doing this. MLG ran re-runs of old Starcraft matches and created all of these "greatest matches of all-time" type streams to continue milking the SC2 viewers without having to put out money aside from some production costs. MLG has been keeping their small pinkey toe in the SC2 scene just enough to keep their revenue streams open and this seems to be another way they are doing that.
User was warned for this post
Just like how OGN and MBCGame used to show re-runs of previous Brood War leagues?
Ok, I will get banned or warned for this post. But I feel betrayed by MLG for dropping SC2. MLG was the only weekend subscription I ever payed for. I really loved the MLG + Day[9] combo and I decided to support it every time I could. Then SC2 got dropped because of "scheduling" issues.
I watch a lot of streams, Destiny and Day[9] especially. I will not watch them on MLG if they decide to move. I will always be biased against MLG for this and Twitch and Youtube is enough for me. This is my second post on TL ever (I think) and i've been here from SC2 Beta. I do watch LoL and Dota 2, but it will not be on MLG.
On December 23 2013 06:13 aherisanu wrote: Ok, I will get banned or warned for this post.
By all that is holy, do you see that martyrdom over there!?
On December 23 2013 06:13 aherisanu wrote: But I feel betrayed by MLG for dropping SC2. MLG was the only weekend subscription I ever payed for. I really loved the MLG + Day[9] combo and I decided to support it every time I could. Then SC2 got dropped because of "scheduling" issues.
I can't blame MLG for dropping SC2. WCS was thrown upon them at very short notice and shockingly Blizzard chose them and not NASL (who have far more experience at running and are reliant upon lengthy leagues, and actually have a studio with a live audience) as partners to operate WCS.
Oh and reddit took a steaming shit all over them for both justified and unjustified reasons. The WCS Season 1 qualifiers were a total cock-up because we saw diamond leaguers and suspected map hackers in the bracket and only 512 seeds, oh and a Chinese person unfairly disqualified in the final round; but then reddit and TL kept finding other increasingly stupid reasons to crap on them like 'We want a live audience', 'Axeltoss and Axslav suck', 'We want Bitterdam', 'NASL is dying', 'Demuslim deserved an invite', 'Who the hell is Capoch?', etc.
Oh and MLG Anaheim was delayed because of the huge commitment MLG made towards WCS and since they were no longer going to host WCS America and Red Bull hosted an event about an hour away on the same day, they saw no point in hosting SC2 at Columbus. What did we see instead? The best damn DOTA 2 event outside of The International.
Does that seem like a justifiable reason to 'drop' Starcraft 2 to you? Because it sure does to me.
On December 23 2013 06:13 aherisanu wrote: I watch a lot of streams, Destiny and Day[9] especially. I will not watch them on MLG if they decide to move. I will always be biased against MLG for this and Twitch and Youtube is enough for me. This is my second post on TL ever (I think) and i've been here from SC2 Beta. I do watch LoL and Dota 2, but it will not be on MLG.
G.G.
User was temp banned for this post.
Good riddance... The rest of us will think with our brains and commend the fact that MLG are actually trying to offer us an alternative to a monopolized service where streams have been unwatchable in 480p let alone HD qualities for well over a year across the other side of the Atlantic.
I remember watching MLG stream through otcoshape, old school!
Anyway, I wish you the best because competition for Twitch can only be a good thing. I think the requirements are a bit high to become an MLG Streamer but I can appreciate the fact that you want only the top quality most ball3r MLG420YOLO streamers.
I hope there are some improvements to MLG's scheduling of events, mainly in the ratio of time between showing ads and showing content. I don't have a problem with ads, but lately MLG online events show more ads than content.
On December 24 2013 01:35 odaxium wrote: I hope there are some improvements to MLG's scheduling of events, mainly in the ratio of time between showing ads and showing content. I don't have a problem with ads, but lately MLG online events show more ads than content.
Out of curiosity, did you watch MLG Columbus? Using Dota as an example we would have the following in terms of ads: -Preroll ad if you clicked on the stream for the first time -Ads after a match for 1-3 minutes
Generally we would do a 45 minute match, serve 4-6 30 second ads, throw to the analysis couch for 5 minutes, serve 4-6 30 second ads then back into game.
On December 23 2013 21:15 ultilol wrote: i hope your bandwidth providers are good and global because a lot of times mlg tournaments would lag in europe and asia (i am from asia).
Compared to Twitch I've had nothing but good performance from MLG's streams before, except MLG Dallas 2011 of course which was an unanimous disaster.
I have been expecting something like what Adam has been talking about in this thread. Its a really simple idea, reduce the number of streams except for the best of the best and give them good service because they will have a lot less streamers to take care of. The automated rebroadcasting and possibly auto uploading to youtube alone makes it very cool. The monetization sounds interesting on how much they can compete with twitch so I wonder what the comparison would be.
So my question is most of the bigger streamers have exclusivity deals with twitch, how do you expect to get them out of those deals? Do you plan on directly sponsoring teams like EG for instance to give them more incentive to jump ship? If they do have multiple players on a team and the entire team joins MLG.tv will you have an EG tv thing where you can watch any of their players playing SC2 or Dota2...etc as a meta rebroadcast style thing? In that case do the ad timings get saved to the rebroadcast and played during those too? Do the players get more revenue from the rebroadcast views?
And last question and this is really important I think. What content creation features will you guys give to use the platform. Like will you have a streaming client for broadcasters that has some integration? Like do you have extra features to offer from a broadcaster standpoint that could be integrated there? Personally one of my pet peeves with twitch is you have to have the dashboard open to run ads and as well as that have obs in the background so instead of having 2 pages needing to be open you could have the chat and the ad button in obs maybe.
How will streaming to the service work? Same as always, or does MLG have more streamlined capture process? Ease of use and manner of capture are two huge areas of complaint that seemingly no one is looking to solve.
On December 22 2013 14:50 Pangpootata wrote: To all haters: Flaming organisations that have dropped SC2 is a good way to stop any organisation from picking up SC2 in the future, for the fear of backlash should they have to drop it one day. What we should do instead is continue to support organisations who have once supported SC2 to let them know that sponsoring SC2 was a right choice, and entice them to come back again.
Mm I dunno, is it really our "duty" to do that? As a community you might argue, perhaps it would be a mature thing to do, for sure (Sc2 / BW community is loyal to a fault almost. )Plus we are a bunch of nice ppl generally. But as a paying customer for all things sc2 related (we are talking generous stream donations, hrs on TL and streams, I stream myself, buying stuff from TL store, thousands of euros on computer parts that only support my fav teams/players), I cant help but feel that the MLG brand (for me personally) isnt what it has been. I pride myself in being in a sc2 community and being a loyal consumer.
I wish them the best of luck tho, and hope that this new streaming platform which can rival twitchtvs (as competition) is always good. And if they offer a good product I see no harm in it.
Oh no, I actually agree with Pangpootata. I personally find it fucking embarassing that two of the first posts in this thread are "༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE STARCRAFT" and "What is your favorite brand of tampons?"; not forgetting the first four pages being full of red posts either issued temp-bans or warnings either.
I linked this thread on /r/starcraft and was downvoted because the subreddit hates my presence (long story I won't go into but a vast majority of posts I make on /r/starcraft get downvote brigaded or just outright flamed because I've made opinions on the game's design considered controversial, I've even had posts telling me I should delete my reddit account or go kill myself) and because apparently "Sundance is a fucking tool" even though these self-entitled fucks have been shitting on MLG because WCS America S1 didn't meet their ultra-high standards.
Based on the amount of QQ about Twitch.tv, and the outcry for a Twitch competitior; I find it ludicrous the community bites my hand off when I suggest a competitor. Hashd? Nobody uses it, therefore it's shit; an attitude which unsurprisingly caused the site to shut down with no word a few months ago because nobody even remotely considered the site. Hitbox? Noooooo, it's being run by the CFO of Own3D and apparently they're a bunch of scam artists.
As far as I'm concerned; if the community collectively acts this entitled and bites a helping hand this ferociously, as they've done with MLG, it's just propping up the harbingers who are crying out "dead game" whether as part of some intentional reddit circlejerk to acquire downvotes or because there's been a decline in tournaments and viewership.
Excuse the long post. I actually have one question, MLGAdam. Do you have any plans to extend MLG's streaming platform beyond "100 featured streamers?"
I like the fact MLG are willing to be helpful towards personal streamers but I feel like what Twitch needs as a competitor is a completely open platform and not just an Azubu clone (that differentiates itself through acquiring exclusive streamers and being run by a totally legitimate and non-shady company.)
Well the reaction you received from REddit is just plain immature. There is no need to start a flamewar or spew hatred amongst the community. We are all here enjoying this game, and if MLG wants to offer us a service, then I am all for it. Yes there has been so much QQ about twitch and its quality, and you could argue legitimately that when the views are high (I am thinking LoLesque numbers) everything doesnt function smoothly. Sometimes there are lags and crashes for no apparent reason (Im sure there is an actual reason of course). So it is needed service...Plus what happens if twitch decides to move on to something else (could happen.) ?
I am sorry you have had this experience, but rest assured, not all of the community are like that. Merry xmas
I'm liking this , Twitch needs a good competitor , I think MLG has got the right idea , and I hope this leads to both twitch and MLG becoming better companies with better services.
I have a few trivial questions if you dont mind Adam.
1- What do you mean by "ad block protection" ? for example lets say I am using ad block , the system will detect that I am using it thus not allowing me to watch the stream unless I disable it ? or will the ad be displayed despite the ad block ?
Note : I am not asking this question because I intend to watch mlg streams and block their ads , I always disable ad block when I visit a website or a stream I support .
2- Are there any expectations on how many streamers your system can currently ( or when the services launches ) hold ? or will there be some kind of beta phase with a set number of streamers before launching ?
3- Can you elaborate a bit more on "More efficient monetization of content" ? this goes back to my 1st question , but how will you do it ? is MLG providing more money per ad and viewer ? or is this claim made because of your confidence that all ads will be shown despite any block attempts ?
4- This is just a suggestion , but since MLG is providing personal people working with the streamers , please make sure that ads don't run while the game is in play , I don't mind an ad running when 1st clicked on the stream or on a refresh , but I honestly left so many streams because shit is about to go down , then all of sudden I get a tampon ad ( seriously fuck you Always arabia !!!! ) , I know that 1 click will get rid of it , but it's still annoying as fuck
If, by any reason, the stream fails. Do we get eagles?
No seriously though; How will you guys handle "up and coming" streamers as this is a closed platform? Or "dieing" streamers; As in, people who get less viewers on MLG because people lost their interest vs people who get more viewers somewhere else because people are switching interests
Also, will there be restrictions to what games will be displayed? Ie. LoL vs Dota, CoD vs CS, Board Games, Mafia(?!?!?!), would there be distinctions?
The SC2 community is really angry at you. Mods putting red on every post won't change what you already know just from reading this thread, Adam: you've pissed off some people. As a Dota fan (and thus someone who watches MLG on occasion even today), what assurances can you provide that you won't just jump ship when the next big thing comes around? I understand that everything is about business, more than most, but the entire point of this post was PR and I think anyone in your PR department with half a brain could have predicted this reaction from people.
You think you're seeing a lot of red NOW? Wait until next quarter.
1/3 of the people who posted here got either banned or a warning, something is wrong. I belive you owe the people who visit your site a bit more respect...
On December 26 2013 05:28 Murogahyouma wrote: 1/3 of the people who posted here got either banned or a warning, something is wrong. I belive you owe the people who visit your site a bit more respect...
They are just forgetting the TL Ten Commandments.
Don't be a drama queen martyr. TeamLiquid isn't colonial America or Tienanmen Square. You do not need to preemptively declare "I'm going to be banned for this..." or "ban me, I don't care." Our Moderators ban for good reasons. If they read someone acting like a martyr, they'll simply treat it as a request to be banned.
I propose that any time someone gets banned for martyring or SC2 MLG drama posting, the mod note at the top should get 1 font point larger
On December 26 2013 05:28 Murogahyouma wrote: 1/3 of the people who posted here got either banned or a warning, something is wrong. I belive you owe the people who visit your site a bit more respect...
Don't be a drama queen martyr. TeamLiquid isn't colonial America or Tienanmen Square. You do not need to preemptively declare "I'm going to be banned for this..." or "ban me, I don't care." Our Moderators ban for good reasons. If they read someone acting like a martyr, they'll simply treat it as a request to be banned.
I propose that any time someone gets banned for martyring or SC2 MLG drama posting, the mod note at the top should get 1 font point larger
At this rate, the font size should have hit triple digits by now...
On December 26 2013 05:28 Murogahyouma wrote: 1/3 of the people who posted here got either banned or a warning, something is wrong. I belive you owe the people who visit your site a bit more respect...
Well to be fair TL don't ban for no reason at all, its because this is a Q&A thread and they are complaining about something else. Plus most of the people banned aren't even regular posters because they know that posts like that aren't going to fly. So yeah the entire thing is understandable.
On December 21 2013 07:05 Lumi wrote: Some of the warnings i can understand, but the first one? Whats wrong with asking/encouraging mlg to bring back sc? I want to hear this one :o
website feeback please. its off topic and the issue itself of MLG and SC2 has been discussed before.
your right, but lets change the title to "ask me certain things" or maybe "love mlg or get banned"
On December 24 2013 01:35 odaxium wrote: I hope there are some improvements to MLG's scheduling of events, mainly in the ratio of time between showing ads and showing content. I don't have a problem with ads, but lately MLG online events show more ads than content.
Out of curiosity, did you watch MLG Columbus? Using Dota as an example we would have the following in terms of ads: -Preroll ad if you clicked on the stream for the first time -Ads after a match for 1-3 minutes
Generally we would do a 45 minute match, serve 4-6 30 second ads, throw to the analysis couch for 5 minutes, serve 4-6 30 second ads then back into game.
Any way you can avoid having to watch the "first time" ad if you refresh the page or switch between streams (within an event)?
Edit to add: the switching between streams is annoying mainly because I sometimes want to just check what is on the 2nd/3rd stream before I decide what to watch. Maybe consider showing a 30 second preview of the stream before the 1st time ad?
On December 21 2013 07:05 Lumi wrote: Some of the warnings i can understand, but the first one? Whats wrong with asking/encouraging mlg to bring back sc? I want to hear this one :o
website feeback please. its off topic and the issue itself of MLG and SC2 has been discussed before.
your right, but lets change the title to "ask me certain things" or maybe "love mlg or get banned"
Yeah AMA IS in the thread title. It's hard to get off topic in that circumstance.
Adam is the ad structure employed at MLG Columbus, which you previously described, part of a shift away from the Netflix like membership based revenue cycle i.e. pay a monthly fee for content, towards a broadcast network like cycle using commercials for revenue? I also understand there a is a middle ground between the two, e.g. upgrade packages offered for 1080P, but I digress.
Depending on the revenue method (We'll call it commercials vs PPV) I see two separate issues that must be resolved for some person, like myself, to purchase products from MLG as opposed to or in addition to one of its competitors.
1. Commercials MLG: You have to #1 priority get rid of rogue commercials that you are not in control of their sound. I do not own an ad blocker because I dont like commercials, I own an ad blocker because I dont like those commercials. For network TV congress went as far as made law to mandate commercial sound levels, the CALM act. It's a big deal. It's a red line, commercials better not cross.
2. PPV MLG: You have to be transparent with viewers on information regarding time and scheduling. If you know how long a break is going to be, you should tell us. If you do not know how long a break we're looking at then tell us that as well, and you can update on screen with an overlay. Dreamhack does an excellent job of always providing more and better information to viewers. ETA of next match time on screen, perhaps in multiple time zone listings. Also listed is schedule of matches and times. The more the better. Dota stats during games are an excellent example.There is no red line here, but I do not want to feel it's an NFL game where they are taking time outs and breaks specifically for commercials. EDIT: Also a few previous GSL matches come to mind. 0-3 on way to 0-4? Suddenly a 15 minute break....... If you need to run commercials while the casters go to the bathroom, tell us. We might need to go too!
I have a lot of respect for them, even if they dropped SC2 in 2013 for understandable reasons. They're trying to compete with Twitch and now they're helping the North American scene exclusively.
EPT
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