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Hey guys,
Me and Eishi_Ki were playing League of Legends together Monday night here and we were just talking about how much fun we used to have at 신촌 station at Jason Lee's place, Yaletown. We were both craving a burger and since Eishi_Ki leased an apartment near Yaletown for the sole purpose of being able to barcraft with us at that restaurant regularly, I figure we should collectively find a reason to go visit and tell Jason to shut up and take our money.
Personally, I would love that Mushroom burger with the Poutine deal again.
Monday and Tuesday are the Lunar New Year, which is a big deal in Korea, so Yaletown probably won't be open... but I was wondering if we can find some time this week to meet up and have lunch or dinner. (Lunch is a lot cheaper, though)
Any ideas on a date? Personally, I'm on vacation from my job all this week and so I have all the time in the world to play here.
Regards,
~The guy with the old school TL shirt, a.k.a. the guy who kissed NeverGG's hand
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Aye, sole purpose hahaha
In srsness, would be good to have another meetup, if you're in Seoul and you fancy meeting some handsome fellows, post it up and we will get something arranged
~ The Scottish guy
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Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
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Lol GOM.
Why don't you invite In_Dove to have some drinks with you lucky fellas in Seoul? (if he resides in Seoul)
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On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
... I don't even...
Whatever. I want that mushroom burger. Who's in?
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On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
wtf GOMTV... is that really Mr. Chae's stance?
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Oh my god... Gom is killing esports...
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GOM banning barcraft... do they really think they lose out on account buyers/studio audience because of the occasional barcarft? Whoever's behind this needs their head checked.
I'm up for meeting up, especially for the burgers. Although I'd prefer dinner and a few beers.
~ the aussie guy
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I don't think that they realize that a lot of people that go to Barcrafts buy tickets, and go to live events...
/facepalm
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Gasp........ terrible GOM wtf.
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United States7639 Posts
Banning Barcraft because you're afraid people will skimp out on tickets is even stupider in Seoul, considering attending the matches live are free too. Are they going to ban people from coming to the studio because they'd rather have those people stay home and pay to watch? Ridiculous.
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I would say that GOM is probably trying to force more foreigners to show up to the live matches; but that was not a problem when I was there and to boot, they don't have enough space.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
hahahahahahahahaah omg gom are you serious
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How do they even enforce that?
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On January 25 2012 15:08 Looms wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all... wtf GOMTV... is that really Mr. Chae's stance?
It's understandable.
If one barcraft gets 80 people to watch on one stream they lost 79 viewers, now imagine there were 10 barcrafts in korea. Roughly 700 "potential" viewers lost.
They have to fight for each viewer and barcrafts work against that. People don't realize that when there are thousands of people watching but they only generate like 100 views it's pretty dumb(for the event). Just think of the real numbers; people are always complaining about how sc2 gets less viewers than LoL, yet they forget that barcraft take away viewers. (Viewers as in numbers)
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On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
Fuck that shit
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On January 25 2012 17:59 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 15:08 Looms wrote:On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all... wtf GOMTV... is that really Mr. Chae's stance? It's understandable. If one barcraft gets 80 people to watch on one stream they lost 79 viewers, now imagine there were 10 barcrafts in korea. Roughly 700 "potential" viewers lost. They have to fight for each viewer and barcrafts work against that. People don't realize that when there are thousands of people watching but they only generate like 100 views it's pretty dumb(for the event). Just think of the real numbers; people are always complaining about how sc2 gets less viewers than LoL, yet they forget that barcraft take away viewers. (Viewers as in numbers)
This should simply be taken into consideration when comparing stream numbers. That's about it. As far as GOM's stance on the matter, it's pretty stupid. Maybe they are in the process of making special accounts that have the right to stream to an audience that are more expensive (and not sold on the main page - there would be little reason for that). But unless that's where GOM is heading, then their stance is just dumb.
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On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
Wow.... I don't even know what to think about that....
It's weird that Blizzard seems so into the whole BarCraft movement that they even spotlight them no battle.net....
I home GOM reverses this.... it would suck that if in Korea you couldn't do something like this...
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I don't see why they wouldn't just try to charge a license fee rather than attempt to shut them down.
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On January 25 2012 18:14 OPL3SA2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 17:59 KeksX wrote:On January 25 2012 15:08 Looms wrote:On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all... wtf GOMTV... is that really Mr. Chae's stance? It's understandable. If one barcraft gets 80 people to watch on one stream they lost 79 viewers, now imagine there were 10 barcrafts in korea. Roughly 700 "potential" viewers lost. They have to fight for each viewer and barcrafts work against that. People don't realize that when there are thousands of people watching but they only generate like 100 views it's pretty dumb(for the event). Just think of the real numbers; people are always complaining about how sc2 gets less viewers than LoL, yet they forget that barcraft take away viewers. (Viewers as in numbers) This should simply be taken into consideration when comparing stream numbers. .
But how do you do that?
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Or just require all barcrafts to register with GOM, which allows them to estimate the number of people watching from bars for sponsors to see. They can even inflate the numbers if they want.
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Yes, how will GOM enforce this? Would they even be able to keep track of all the bars who're doing this? Do they have a secret police or something? LOL
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If GOM wants to know BarCraft viewership. They should contact the organizers and beg for numbers. Demanding barcrafts to close is stupid and I will damn sure to make it a PR debacle for them to try it out.
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I dont get it... the korean stream is free... are they really concerned with losing the english listening audience??
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
it's really retarded cuz...
i guess they think 'people should all pay for their own subscriptions'
except its backwards logic because a. its not like theres a barcraft for every single day of games, ppl will still have to buy to watch...and b. it can potentially get them even more subscriptions because of newcomers to the bar or w/e deciding to subscribe...
wtf
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On January 25 2012 18:34 bokchoi wrote:
I dont get it... the korean stream is free... are they really concerned with losing the english listening audience??
As I already said it's probably not about the audience itself but about the numbers.
If you want sponsors you can't say "Yea we think 50.000 people watched the show", you have to say:"Numbers say 50.00 people watched the show", and BarCrafts shrink these numbers.
But yea there should be a better way to deal with this, a registration for example seems good.. You register your bar and say how many people could possible be watching and GomTV could say "We have 50.000 unique viewers and 10 BarCrafts which will count as 1000 viewers extra" or something like that.
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please somebody talk to them... they can't be serious. GOM is interested to growing this business/scene. don't they realize Barcraft is one opportunity how to spread the word around non-starcraft lovers?
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The way I see it, Barcraft is mostly for finals and larger events, not the weekly day to day matches that they cast. Most people have a season or yearly pass to see those day to day matches.
I really can't see how they would loose out, it is not like people pay only for the finals and not the rest of the season. Anything they loose out on ticket wise if that did happen they are going to catch up on by the amount of people that bring along friends and get them interested in the game.
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meh, it's not really unreasonable that they don't want barcrafts happening if they're not making money from it directly imo
cost to license UFC in a sports bar is like 500-1500 depending on the fight :c
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Why even care about that email? Just ignore it then can't stop you from gathering with friends and watching something you payed for. LOL Ridiculous by GOM, Mr Chae what the fuck man? As long as they are adults they can do whatever they want. Drinking is not illegal, not even in strict Korea.
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On January 25 2012 18:18 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 18:14 OPL3SA2 wrote:On January 25 2012 17:59 KeksX wrote:On January 25 2012 15:08 Looms wrote:On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all... wtf GOMTV... is that really Mr. Chae's stance? It's understandable. If one barcraft gets 80 people to watch on one stream they lost 79 viewers, now imagine there were 10 barcrafts in korea. Roughly 700 "potential" viewers lost. They have to fight for each viewer and barcrafts work against that. People don't realize that when there are thousands of people watching but they only generate like 100 views it's pretty dumb(for the event). Just think of the real numbers; people are always complaining about how sc2 gets less viewers than LoL, yet they forget that barcraft take away viewers. (Viewers as in numbers) This should simply be taken into consideration when comparing stream numbers. . But how do you do that?
I live in Boston, and there are tons of free local newpapers. They make money from ads, so they need to be able to estimate reasonably their readership, which isn't nearly as easy as "papers put in box - papers left in box"
Likewise, the super bowl here in America is going to be shown in every bar in the damn country. I assure you the NFL reports all that to their sponsors.
So it's not like it's some unprecedented challenge.
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Here's the thing though, I've been apart of the organisation that plans the Barcrafts for Sydney, Australia. GOM has been nothing but proactive and helpful in assisting us with scheduling and promotion... I don't see why they'd do a complete 180 on this and ban them...
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Ooh I'm interested, it'd give me a chance to meet some TLers around Sinchon (and playing league of legends, hell yeah!).
Please keep me posted about times dates : ) I'd love to come!
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On January 25 2012 18:54 Crucius wrote:
Here's the thing though, I've been apart of the organisation that plans the Barcrafts for Sydney, Australia. GOM has been nothing but proactive and helpful in assisting us with scheduling and promotion... I don't see why they'd do a complete 180 on this and ban them...
It's shocking, but "yaletown" is legit. He's consistently the guy that hosts BarCraft Seoul and I do not doubt him if he post something as serious as that.
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Seeing as this email was only directed at the Seoul venue it's probably about increasing the studio/finals audiences. Anything else doesn't make much sense.
Everyone needs to stop acting like this is a universal barcraft ban. It's not great for Seoul TL'ers but it doesn't affect anyone else.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:59 Scarecrow wrote:
Seeing as this email was only directed at the Seoul venue it's probably about increasing the studio/finals audiences. Anything else doesn't make much sense.
tru
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On January 25 2012 18:59 Scarecrow wrote:
Seeing as this email was only directed at the Seoul venue it's probably about increasing the studio/finals audiences. Anything else doesn't make much sense.
Everyone needs to stop acting like this is a universal barcraft ban. It's not great for Seoul TL'ers but it doesn't affect anyone else.
GOM or any other tournament do not have jurisdiction over BarCraft. BarCraft is a community movement and should not cave in to bullying. I can't see other organizers ignoring this. I won't.
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Oh good, we found something to pitchfork about again.
Perhaps it would be wiser for GOM to not be too strict about this, goodwill and all. Still you can't restream either and this isn't the LQ stream from the 1 year pass mention. Plus there's the studio/numbers thing, as mentioned above.
Sucks but are there *really* people surprised this could happen?
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
On January 25 2012 19:26 schimmetje wrote:
Oh good, we found something to pitchfork about again.
Perhaps it would be wiser for GOM to not be too strict about this, goodwill and all. Still you can't restream either and this isn't the LQ stream from the 1 year pass mention. Plus there's the studio/numbers thing, as mentioned above.
Sucks but are there *really* people surprised this could happen?
Yeah considering they were lamenting the small number of SC2 supporters they have been enjoying in Korea, this is pretty surprising.
On January 23 2012 17:00 jellyjello wrote:
Coach Won>
...
Also, if KeSPA, Blizzard, or GOMTV wants an information about SC2 to be public, I think they must talk to the teams first before doing so. It's the same with the fans. They are all esports fans. There is no need to distinguish between BW fans and SC2 fans. We shouldn't be fighting for the already small market. We should all try to find a common ground and have discussions and gather opinions from fans, and SC2 association is a necessity tool for this to happen.
Straight up telling them to stop instead of trying to work out a deal or something destroys an avenue that they once had to garner support from the local community. Not very smart.
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I can't find a single thing not broken with the world today 
Except kittens.
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So shockingly shortsighted...
Barcrafts help the SC2 community and the market grow. For me, money spent in barcrafts is money inserted into the SC2 market which I want to see getting bigger.
See the competition between MLG and IPL last year for example. Although it was very strong, both at least acknowledged that each other's existence helps e-sports grow and this is a good thing.
If I am counting correctly, this is strike 3 for GOM as far as I am concerned. It almost looks like they are trying to make their last buck. Fighting to make e-sports smaller will not do the trick for me.
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I'm pretty sure that it's ratings issue. Believe it or not, SC2 is rated as 18+ in Korea, and Gom must use 12+ version (Reduced Violence) to broadcast GSL in Korea. You are lucky that you can watch gomtv.net stuff in Korea at all. Please stop making a fuse about it, because once the word gets out, Gov will force Gom to block Korean IPs altogether. (Or, they could order Korean ISPs to block gomtv.net)
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They better fucking be serving beer at the studio.
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On January 25 2012 20:12 NHY wrote:
I'm pretty sure that it's ratings issue. Believe it or not, SC2 is rated as 18+ in Korea, and Gom must use 12+ version (Reduced Violence) to broadcast GSL in Korea. You are lucky that you can watch gomtv.net stuff in Korea at all. Please stop making a fuse about it, because once the word gets out, Gov will force Gom to block Korean IPs altogether. (Or, they could order Korean ISPs to block gomtv.net)
No that doesn't make sense. GOM has no incentive to prevent viewers simply due to ratings. That's the government's job. Unless there's some SOPA-like law for ratings.
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Why does this GOM vs Barcraft reminds me of Blizzard vs Kespa? I dont know
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On January 25 2012 19:03 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 18:59 Scarecrow wrote:
Seeing as this email was only directed at the Seoul venue it's probably about increasing the studio/finals audiences. Anything else doesn't make much sense.
Everyone needs to stop acting like this is a universal barcraft ban. It's not great for Seoul TL'ers but it doesn't affect anyone else. GOM or any other tournament do not have jurisdiction over BarCraft. BarCraft is a community movement and should not cave in to bullying. I can't see other organizers ignoring this. I won't.
Doesn't blizzard have the rights to barcraft?
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How can you not see the potential of new people getting into Starcraft and buying a ticket for themself at home? Plus making Starcraft bigger and better in general.
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On January 25 2012 20:42 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 19:03 Primadog wrote:On January 25 2012 18:59 Scarecrow wrote:
Seeing as this email was only directed at the Seoul venue it's probably about increasing the studio/finals audiences. Anything else doesn't make much sense.
Everyone needs to stop acting like this is a universal barcraft ban. It's not great for Seoul TL'ers but it doesn't affect anyone else. GOM or any other tournament do not have jurisdiction over BarCraft. BarCraft is a community movement and should not cave in to bullying. I can't see other organizers ignoring this. I won't. Doesn't blizzard have the rights to barcraft?
No. We won that one too.
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On January 25 2012 20:24 lbmaian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 20:12 NHY wrote:
I'm pretty sure that it's ratings issue. Believe it or not, SC2 is rated as 18+ in Korea, and Gom must use 12+ version (Reduced Violence) to broadcast GSL in Korea. You are lucky that you can watch gomtv.net stuff in Korea at all. Please stop making a fuse about it, because once the word gets out, Gov will force Gom to block Korean IPs altogether. (Or, they could order Korean ISPs to block gomtv.net) No that doesn't make sense. GOM has no incentive to prevent viewers simply due to ratings. That's the government's job. Unless there's some SOPA-like law for ratings.
In Korea, ratings are done by Government and compulsory. Gom is technically breaking a law by allowing gomtv.net to be accessible from Korean IPs without taking necessary steps. Now that they've realized someone is watching gomtv.net material in Korea, they may be forced to act.
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This seems stupid. I guess I can understand that they don't want to loose ad-income by having lots of people watching through one account. But on the other hand, mainsteam exposure is the way to get new viewers. Since there are never going to be barcrafts covering all events and matches I don't see this eating into GOM's overall income.
GOM: Stop having such a short time horizon in your decisions and start to work for E-sports!!
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I think instead of getting rowdy and jumping the gun the Seoul guys should just follow up on the email or better yet go down to the studio and ask Mr. Chae in person. I'm sure he'd be more than willing to sit down to discuss why and if there's anything you guys can do about it.
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On January 25 2012 20:45 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 20:42 Corrosive wrote:On January 25 2012 19:03 Primadog wrote:On January 25 2012 18:59 Scarecrow wrote:
Seeing as this email was only directed at the Seoul venue it's probably about increasing the studio/finals audiences. Anything else doesn't make much sense.
Everyone needs to stop acting like this is a universal barcraft ban. It's not great for Seoul TL'ers but it doesn't affect anyone else. GOM or any other tournament do not have jurisdiction over BarCraft. BarCraft is a community movement and should not cave in to bullying. I can't see other organizers ignoring this. I won't. Doesn't blizzard have the rights to barcraft? No. We won that one too.
won? what did you win exactly? they just asked for the info and then they never did anything, yet everyone assumed they were killing barcraft...
And if Blizzard didnt want any Barcraft, there wouldn be any barcraft, maybe some small one, but the maps with barcrafts all over the world would cease to exist quite quickly. And of course Gom can stop a barcraft as well,is their broadcast, and they can charge more money for groups (exactly the same as baseball soccer or w/e you watch in your country), or just outright forbid it.
As for the email, guess it has to do with something regarding the finals, but I would really really like a response from Gom, come on Mr Chae i have faith in you :D
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Discussions like these can never be good until a actual representative speaks from the other side. Gom has foreigners like Torch, and people with good English like John, and kind of Mr. Chae... You guys should wait to bash them until someone from their side speaks, because for right now, it's really speculation as to why they did it.
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Why dont GOM starts to sell passes for BarCraft organizers (it would be more expensive and have a higher quality with support). That is what the UFC has made and see where they are right now.
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What the ... this does not make sense at all.
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It makes lot of sense, seeing as they are only enforcing this in Korea - one of the important reasons has already been stated, Barcraft has the potential to reduce people showing up at the GOM studio, thus "lowering the athmosphere" (not quite sure how to express myself, but I hope you guys know what I mean).
It's not like they're "banning" Barcraft everywhere, just this one in Seoul, which makes sense (IMO).
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Well I'm still up for going there for "Barcraft" and getting a burger and stuff. Also I have yet to be able to sign up for a KR LoL account, maybe you guys can give me a hand there.
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On January 25 2012 18:44 DwD wrote:
Why even care about that email? Just ignore it then can't stop you from gathering with friends and watching something you payed for. LOL Ridiculous by GOM, Mr Chae what the fuck man? As long as they are adults they can do whatever they want. Drinking is not illegal, not even in strict Korea.
I should go around murdering people, as long as no one sees me do it it's fine.
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Obviously its because they dislike the idea of ~100 people watching using one person's pass. They aren't getting profit from the other 99 people.
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If it were that obvious (edit: fixed typo), why do they only ban the Barcraft in Seoul, and leave all the other Barcrafts in the world alone? Please think again, it should be even more obvious that what you are proposing is NOT the case.
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So they don't allow them to host barcrafts because it lowers view count? Do they really believe that the numbers on their screen have to represent amount of people watching?
Statistic mongers are so afraid of numbers going down it's hilarious.
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On January 25 2012 22:14 jianming wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 18:44 DwD wrote:
Why even care about that email? Just ignore it then can't stop you from gathering with friends and watching something you payed for. LOL Ridiculous by GOM, Mr Chae what the fuck man? As long as they are adults they can do whatever they want. Drinking is not illegal, not even in strict Korea. I should go around murdering people, as long as no one sees me do it it's fine.
Yes because comparing murder to something that not only doesn't hurt anyone, but isnt illegal is totally rational.
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On January 25 2012 22:14 jianming wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 18:44 DwD wrote:
Why even care about that email? Just ignore it then can't stop you from gathering with friends and watching something you payed for. LOL Ridiculous by GOM, Mr Chae what the fuck man? As long as they are adults they can do whatever they want. Drinking is not illegal, not even in strict Korea. I should go around murdering people, as long as no one sees me do it it's fine.
This might have been the worst comparison possible. Way to go. LOL!
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Imagine 80 less stream viewers because some guy is re-streaming it for free.
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Major sport associations charge BIG bucks to restaurants for the rights to show their events. This is an understandable business reaction, and in my opinion just means that eSports is getting bigger (in Korea anyway), and that's good (for some reason).
Were there barcrafts in Korea for BW?
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On January 25 2012 22:53 zeru wrote:
It's like GOM doesnt want SC2 to grow in korea. Wtf. Need some official response on this imo.
It may not be their fault. You guys are forgetting that Anibox has exclusive broadcasting rights and there may be something in their contract with GOM that prevents this sort of thing. Maybe the OP needs to contact Anibox and see if there's anything they can do. It's not like GOM is trying to hurt SC2's growth in Korea. They obviously have a good reason for doing this.
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On January 25 2012 22:14 jianming wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 18:44 DwD wrote:
Why even care about that email? Just ignore it then can't stop you from gathering with friends and watching something you payed for. LOL Ridiculous by GOM, Mr Chae what the fuck man? As long as they are adults they can do whatever they want. Drinking is not illegal, not even in strict Korea. I should go around murdering people, as long as no one sees me do it it's fine.
Are you actually going to use that argument? God...some people... Last time i checked, murder was illegal, watching a stream with some friends isn't.
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GOM is a garbage organization. But then again so is KeSPA.
These people are such power-mongers it's absolutely disgusting. They want total and utter control over EVERYTHING.
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GOM probably think THEY are starcraft 2. Sure, world domination....
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Everybody, shut the fuck up, we are trying to arrange a meet here.
How is Friday or Saturday for everyone? Bit short notice I know but may as well get the finger out!
edit: See what you did bro -.- BAD DECISION MAKING!
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SoCal8910 Posts
On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
because technically, GOM wouldn't be making any money off of the broadcast you're airing, which is their property. its like showing a movie in a public place and turning a profit from it - technically illegal.
blizzard and other companies have been pretty cool with it because of hte exposure, but i wouldn't be surprised to see a few more companies follow suit.
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Well, I'm glad I already canceled my GOM 1 year pass in protest of their corrupt ruling in the Naniwa fiasco at Blizzard Cup. I'm happy to hear that Yaletown didn't just take this lightly, and I hope more people cancel their subscriptions to show GOM they need to change their business practices.
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WTF... i guess they just want more people in their studio :/ since its not banned outside of Seoul
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At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say it again:
IT IS ILLEGAL FOR GOM TO BROADCAST GOMTV.NET GSL CAST IN KOREA
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GOM doesnt want 100+ people in a room watching something that the average cost/person is less than $0.10
pretty lame on their part, but i understand from a business point of view
i really think they should look at barcrafts for their non-monetary value though. there are certainly a lot of qualitative aspects to business that cant be measured with $
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We're not gonna take it. NO. We ain't gonna take it. We're not gonna take it, anymore!
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On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
Oh brother,
Really now? When you are promoting the game. Some people really. -_-
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O_O ? They cant be serious
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On January 25 2012 23:35 Zorkmid wrote:
Major sport associations charge BIG bucks to restaurants for the rights to show their events. This is an understandable business reaction, and in my opinion just means that eSports is getting bigger (in Korea anyway), and that's good (for some reason).
Were there barcrafts in Korea for BW?
nope, people usually just went to the stadium.
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AS A PERSON WHO ATTENDED BARCRAFT AT YALETOWN, IN SEOUL:
I'm kinda glad this topic got blown up. I saw it when Jason first posted about it, but decided not to say anything as to not come across hot-headed. Looks like some other people beat me to the punch!
The thing that a lot of people aren't realizing here: Yaletown can't house hundreds of fucking people. At any given barcraft there were MAXIMUM 12 people watching the stream. These are all people who either 1) have paid for a subsctiption or 2) DO NOT NEED A SUBSCRIPTION because they can attend the events live FOR FREE ANYWAY.
GOMTV is not going to gain any viewers or money out of this. Sorry.
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Yeah seriously, it's like 10-15 people max. People need to stop blowing this way out of proportion and just let us organise the meet-up. Friday night or anytime saturday suits. If it's saturday lunch we can watch the broodwar double-header on OGN, I think it starts at midday.
On January 26 2012 00:49 philipov wrote:
Well, I'm glad I already canceled my GOM 1 year pass in protest of their corrupt ruling in the Naniwa fiasco at Blizzard Cup. I'm happy to hear that Yaletown didn't just take this lightly, and I hope more people cancel their subscriptions to show GOM they need to change their business practices.
Idiots like this guy make me sad.
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I'm actually with GOM on this one...
The entrance to the studio is free because they want a lot of fans cheering in front of the camera and to create an ambiance that can be shown all over the world.
Bars always need special licenses to display pay-per-view events. It makes no sense for the organizer to pay 1 fee and show it to an unlimited amount of people.
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On January 26 2012 02:38 Back wrote:
I'm actually with GOM on this one...
The entrance to the studio is free because they want a lot of fans cheering in front of the camera and to create an ambiance that can be shown all over the world.
Bars always need special licenses to display pay-per-view events. It makes no sense for the organizer to pay 1 fee and show it to an unlimited amount of people.
Their live setup is absolutely horrible. I wouldn't go there even if I lived 100 meters away.
They should really do something about it cause its depressing seeing something that awful.
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On January 26 2012 02:51 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 02:38 Back wrote:
I'm actually with GOM on this one...
The entrance to the studio is free because they want a lot of fans cheering in front of the camera and to create an ambiance that can be shown all over the world.
Bars always need special licenses to display pay-per-view events. It makes no sense for the organizer to pay 1 fee and show it to an unlimited amount of people. Their live setup is absolutely horrible. I wouldn't go there even if I lived 100 meters away. They should really do something about it cause its depressing seeing something that awful.
Your post has ALMOST as much as content as mine does.
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Maybe they should pimp up the studio or move to not make it look so depressing and bad, really make an effort to drag people down there and make it worth watching live instead of at home or anywhere else with some fellow starcrafters with some beer and shit. Because seriously, the studio and crowd looks really awkward from watching the broadcast online.
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I guess they desperately want people to show up to their live events.
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On January 25 2012 17:59 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 15:08 Looms wrote:On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all... wtf GOMTV... is that really Mr. Chae's stance? It's understandable. If one barcraft gets 80 people to watch on one stream they lost 79 viewers, now imagine there were 10 barcrafts in korea. Roughly 700 "potential" viewers lost. They have to fight for each viewer and barcrafts work against that. People don't realize that when there are thousands of people watching but they only generate like 100 views it's pretty dumb(for the event). Just think of the real numbers; people are always complaining about how sc2 gets less viewers than LoL, yet they forget that barcraft take away viewers. (Viewers as in numbers)
80 barcraft visitors don't equal 80 lost paying customers. Maybe 10-20 of them would have watched the stream themselves because they were fans from the beginning. But the next 20 wouldn't have paid anyway because they are just casual viewers - maybe some will advance to fans after the barcraft experience. At then there are 40+ people who wouldn't watch any stream at all because the didn't know of it / are (girl-) friends with a fan / etc - this is you NEW audience, gained by barcraft.
Only if your PR department is bad at calculating you will end up with smaller numbers through barcraft.
Instead they should add some '+ xxxx people through xx barcrafts' or '+xx% through barcrafts' for their sponsors.
I think special 'barcraft accounts' would sell aswell. They should include better quality or at least higher stream priority - nothing sadder than a barcraft stream carsh!
Judging by how loyal most of the SC2 community members are, staggered prices for events (1-10/10-50/50+) could work.
Just my thoughts..
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Canada13389 Posts
On January 25 2012 17:54 Rekrul wrote:
hahahahahahahahaah omg gom are you serious
Get to the bottom of this so we can read a blog on it an 2 years GOGO!
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United States7639 Posts
On January 26 2012 02:38 Back wrote:
I'm actually with GOM on this one...
The entrance to the studio is free because they want a lot of fans cheering in front of the camera and to create an ambiance that can be shown all over the world.
Bars always need special licenses to display pay-per-view events. It makes no sense for the organizer to pay 1 fee and show it to an unlimited amount of people.
lol I don't know what you're talking about. They never ever even show the audience unless you specifically make a cheerful. This isn't BW, where you get crowd shots at the beginning of every match, and we see Korean couples smiling shyly or girls hiding their faces from the camera. If you don't have a sign, then you might as well not be there. The place is fucking tiny and can barely fit more than 30 or so people anyway.
The barcrafts at yaletown never had more than 15 people. It was just a place for the few of us to gather and have fun. GOM would know; they sent a film crew to check it out one night. There is no massive amount of money being lost here.
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On January 26 2012 03:33 Kiett wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 02:38 Back wrote:
I'm actually with GOM on this one...
The entrance to the studio is free because they want a lot of fans cheering in front of the camera and to create an ambiance that can be shown all over the world.
Bars always need special licenses to display pay-per-view events. It makes no sense for the organizer to pay 1 fee and show it to an unlimited amount of people. lol I don't know what you're talking about. They never ever even show the audience unless you specifically make a cheerful. This isn't BW, where you get crowd shots at the beginning of every match, and we see Korean couples smiling shyly or girls hiding their faces from the camera. If you don't have a sign, then you might as well not be there. The place is fucking tiny and can barely fit more than 30 or so people anyway. The barcrafts at yaletown never had more than 15 people. It was just a place for the few of us to gather and have fun. GOM would know; they sent a film crew to check it out one night. There is no massive amount of money being lost here.
Wait, GOM sent a film crew to BarCraft Seoul for a marketing reel, then shut you guys down?
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This is ridiculous. One of my favorite parts about StarCraft II spectating has been the local barcrafts here in Austin, TX. It does nothing but strengthen the audience's emotional tie to the game, the players, and the casters. Surely, there must be a better explanation.
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United States7639 Posts
On January 26 2012 03:48 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:33 Kiett wrote:On January 26 2012 02:38 Back wrote:
I'm actually with GOM on this one...
The entrance to the studio is free because they want a lot of fans cheering in front of the camera and to create an ambiance that can be shown all over the world.
Bars always need special licenses to display pay-per-view events. It makes no sense for the organizer to pay 1 fee and show it to an unlimited amount of people. lol I don't know what you're talking about. They never ever even show the audience unless you specifically make a cheerful. This isn't BW, where you get crowd shots at the beginning of every match, and we see Korean couples smiling shyly or girls hiding their faces from the camera. If you don't have a sign, then you might as well not be there. The place is fucking tiny and can barely fit more than 30 or so people anyway. The barcrafts at yaletown never had more than 15 people. It was just a place for the few of us to gather and have fun. GOM would know; they sent a film crew to check it out one night. There is no massive amount of money being lost here. Wait, GOM sent a film crew to BarCraft Seoul for a marketing reel, then shut you guys down?
Yeah, they did. I wasn't actually there that night (I think I went to watch the games at the studio?) but Symmetry was. He said they filmed everyone watching the game and socializing, and then gave out free GOMtv shirts. It seemed like they were really supportive of the event.
This is just a complete 180 :|
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That piss me off.
Kiett, if you can get in touch with yaletown owner and the organizer(s) of BarCraft Seoul, please send him my regard. Also let him know that he has the support of the BarCraft communities, and we would fight for him if he chooses to. Please have him get in touch with me if needed.
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On January 26 2012 00:49 philipov wrote:
Well, I'm glad I already canceled my GOM 1 year pass in protest of their corrupt ruling in the Naniwa fiasco at Blizzard Cup. I'm happy to hear that Yaletown didn't just take this lightly, and I hope more people cancel their subscriptions to show GOM they need to change their business practices.
Haha I did exactly the same last year, gom revoked my year pass immediately but ignored any monetary issues regarding it so I had to file a dispute through paypal. That 100$ is still not back joy eh.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On January 26 2012 05:05 Primadog wrote:
That piss me off.
Kiett, if you can get in touch with yaletown owner and the organizer(s) of BarCraft Seoul, please send him my regard. Also let him know that he has the support of the BarCraft communities, and we would fight for him if he chooses to. Please have him get in touch with me if needed.
u r way too emotionally involved in this lol
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The irony is that TL released their new Barcraft section of the site the day after this thread was made. Hopefully someone with common sense or actual knowledge of PR changes their policy over at GOM.
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Once again GOM shows how much it understands the scene it is supposedly marketing too and reliant on for viewership/season passes.
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I hope there's something I don't know behind this. Gom sounds pretty stupid based on the info in this thread.
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I can see goms reasoning behind this... To show UFC events in restaurants the restaurant has to pay for each potential viewer they have which can reach ridiculous amounts of money, so only places that are sure they are going to have a big turnout really show them... Not that I agree with it, the owner of the pub where we have our barcraft loves the extra business, which is understandable because there's probably 2-3 times as many people there during barcraft at no extra expense to him, maybe he should share some of the cost of bringing more people to it.... just saying, capitalism is capitalism...
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On January 25 2012 17:59 KeksX wrote:
If one barcraft gets 80 people to watch on one stream they lost 79 viewers, now imagine there were 10 barcrafts in korea. Roughly 700 "potential" viewers lost.
They have to fight for each viewer and barcrafts work against that. People don't realize that when there are thousands of people watching but they only generate like 100 views it's pretty dumb(for the event). Just think of the real numbers; people are always complaining about how sc2 gets less viewers than LoL, yet they forget that barcraft take away viewers. (Viewers as in numbers)
Then maybe barcraft should require a special "theater" ticket that costs 5 or 10 times more? But honestly you would think that brings more attention to GomTV as new audiences could imerge from it.
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The thing is, Barcrafting in Seoul was more of a place to watch finals if you couldn't make the finals on time, and chill with some foreigners after the fact, and drink beer, and eat awesome burgers.
Most of us would go watch the finals live, then go to yaletown after.
I don't understand why gom feels the need to shut it down.
He said future barcrafts are shut down... I guess even if they do a finals in Cali, they want what few foreigners there are to go to their viewing party?
It seems like gom wants foreigners in their studio...
Kind of seems like an overreaction from gom.
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On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
... did you ask why?
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
On January 26 2012 04:47 Kiett wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:48 Primadog wrote:On January 26 2012 03:33 Kiett wrote:On January 26 2012 02:38 Back wrote:
I'm actually with GOM on this one...
The entrance to the studio is free because they want a lot of fans cheering in front of the camera and to create an ambiance that can be shown all over the world.
Bars always need special licenses to display pay-per-view events. It makes no sense for the organizer to pay 1 fee and show it to an unlimited amount of people. lol I don't know what you're talking about. They never ever even show the audience unless you specifically make a cheerful. This isn't BW, where you get crowd shots at the beginning of every match, and we see Korean couples smiling shyly or girls hiding their faces from the camera. If you don't have a sign, then you might as well not be there. The place is fucking tiny and can barely fit more than 30 or so people anyway. The barcrafts at yaletown never had more than 15 people. It was just a place for the few of us to gather and have fun. GOM would know; they sent a film crew to check it out one night. There is no massive amount of money being lost here. Wait, GOM sent a film crew to BarCraft Seoul for a marketing reel, then shut you guys down? Yeah, they did. I wasn't actually there that night (I think I went to watch the games at the studio?) but Symmetry was. He said they filmed everyone watching the game and socializing, and then gave out free GOMtv shirts. It seemed like they were really supportive of the event. This is just a complete 180 :|
I hate to say it, but I'm not surprised in the slightest. It's quite often hard to know where you stand with people/organizations here. They will appear supportive, and suddenly turn upon you without any warning. That doesn't apply to everyone, obviously, but it has happened to me and people I know in the past.
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This is ridiculous. They realize barcraft will bring more awareness to e-sports and their own brand...right? Not too smart on gom's part.
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Some people are silly. They complain because esports should be treated like real sports, and then when it is they complain about that too. This is just a step towards that. GSL is no different than UFC, Pro Wrestling, Boxing, Football, or any other PAY PER VIEW sporting event.
You could make the arguement maybe it's too early for them to do this, especially if they don't have a bar package available yet, but apparently they seem to think that it is time. This was going to happen eventually. If a bar was broadcasting normal pay per view content with a single user license and the organising body found out they would be asked to stop too. SC2 is getting popular so this stuff is going to happen, get over it. It's what you have been asking for, so stop complaining.
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Wow, I really hope we get an official release from GOM about this, and encourage people to pressure them for one. Barcrafts are something we really want to become bigger and bigger, not stomped on over Gretech not getting a few bucks...
If they were thinking long term they would be the ones actually sponsoring these events as opposed to trying to crack down on them...
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If true thats ridiculous. The sc2 market isn't big or strong enough for stuff like this yet. They should be encouraging barcrafts because they promote the growth of sc2, rather than stifling them. Honestly this is a baffling move, it doesn't make any business sense, its more likely to turn people off buying a season pass and lose gom money than anything. Somebody really needs to explain this to whoever is behind this.
For the barcraft you could still show it on the free to view steam though right?
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On January 26 2012 09:03 thebig1 wrote:
Some people are silly. They complain because esports should be treated like real sports, and then when it is they complain about that too. This is just a step towards that. GSL is no different than UFC, Pro Wrestling, Boxing, Football, or any other PAY PER VIEW sporting event.
You could make the arguement maybe it's too early for them to do this, especially if they don't have a bar package available yet, but apparently they seem to think that it is time. This was going to happen eventually. If a bar was broadcasting normal pay per view content with a single user license and the organising body found out they would be asked to stop too. SC2 is getting popular so this stuff is going to happen, get over it. It's what you have been asking for, so stop complaining.
It is perfectly reasonable to complain about a Barcraft getting shut down without explanation. It reflects poorly on the organization that they aren't at least giving a reason, especially considering how SC2 is still relatively small.
Furthermore, both you and 90% of the people in this thread are making assumptions about why GOM is doing this. Until we get an official response from GOM, everyone's just wasting their time speculating.
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It. makes. no. sense. at. all.
They must have a completely different view of the world from us to get to this decision. And no business sense whatsoever...
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Isn't Starcraft 2 18+ in Korea? I remember reading Blizzard trying to appeal to the Ministry of Culture [http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2010/04/133_64287.html]. Blizzard then released an edited 12+ version [http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/30/starcraft-2-free-for-wow-players-in-korea-loses-18-rating/] in Korea. I think the issue is that the English broadcast is uncensored (18+) while the Korean broadcast is the 12+ edited version. It is against the law to broadcast the regular version during the day time as I understand it.
Then again, maybe they have other reasons for not wanting it. I'm just theorizing unless they decide to respond ^^.
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On January 26 2012 06:17 meatybacon wrote:
I can see goms reasoning behind this... To show UFC events in restaurants the restaurant has to pay for each potential viewer they have which can reach ridiculous amounts of money, so only places that are sure they are going to have a big turnout really show them... Not that I agree with it, the owner of the pub where we have our barcraft loves the extra business, which is understandable because there's probably 2-3 times as many people there during barcraft at no extra expense to him, maybe he should share some of the cost of bringing more people to it.... just saying, capitalism is capitalism...
Just to clarify as others have already said, we are not packed or making a tonne of money because of the barcrafts. If anything GOM was making more money on the extra subscription we bought compared to what they are losing from lack of viewership. We've never had a viewer that hadn't been to the studio live and we only show main events like finals and semis. We don't even have a set schedule as we were still in the infant stages. GSL was probably 4th or 5th after NFL, NHL, NBA, EPL even Victoria Secret videos on our priority list of what we show here. We only showed it because of my personal link to the industry and the desire to offer something back to the community. I can assure you that if GOM offered us a premium package to air it for double, we would not have purchased it. Anyone who has attended our establishment can tell you why.
As for the reason, I don't know. They said that they are evaluating their "stance" on Barcrafts in general, which tells me it's not for any legal reason as they would have specified if it were something formal. They did say that they would make an official announcement on their stance, but this was a month ago now.
My take is that they "thought someone might be" benefitting from their intellectual property and they didn't want to stand still even if it was actually helping them in the present. (If were had 30 people a week coming to watch I'd understand, but 15-20 a month is not hurting them, it's actually helping) Again anyone who has been here can back this point.
It is true that Gom came to our first ever barcraft to give out free t-shirts and stickers to show their support, why this now?
Perhaps we'll get that barcraft explanation as they promised someday. Perhaps if enough time has passed, I'll post our email log.
In the meantime, don't let the drama hurt the game, which still goes on.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Meh this is so detrimental to the growth of E-Sports!
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I do want to add one last thing as well. The reason GomTV is against it is for commercial reasons and also from a LEGAL REASON.
Anyone who hosts a barcraft should be aware that they are breaching the license agreement given by gomtv when you sign up. It isnt for personal/private use, using it in a bar becomes public and you are one breaching the agreement and secondly you are infringing the copyright of the broadcast.
There are case law on this and i would be extremely cautious to anyone who considers hosting a barcraft without the appropriate license from GomTV. I would also be extremely cautious as the venue (bar) because they could be considered for secondary infringement. You need not look far then the free mp3 downloads case in australia.
Any bar, food court, shopping centres etc that play music and broadcast always pays some license/royalty fee to someone (usually APRA/AMCOS for music). Otherwise they would be sued for infringement.
South Korea is against infringement and counterfeiting big time. When you got to korea and you have to till out a declaration saying you have no goods that infringement any IP.
So yea. Also Australia is also usually very owners of IP. again lots of technology cases out there now.
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It would hurt eSports if we do nothing. GOM acted unilaterally, used BarCraft Seoul when convenient to them, then shit over your group when they're done.
That's bullshit. We need to convince GOM that they're making mistake by threating BarCraft as an enemy. It does no good for this scene.
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Guys, I made an account just to post this (=
I'll be in Seoul from february 9th to to 14th, and would like to meet the nerds for some beer. I'll watch Code S and GSTL live at Gom, so I'm up for something after or maybe a Barcraft to watch IEM São Paulo.
I'll be checking this topic and PMs. See ya!
Btw, it's a shame that GOM is doing this,
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And it's a shame that finally when São Paulo has an event, I'm booked to go to Asia the same week :-P
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At least two of us foreigners (including me) speak Portunhol, so you should be fine coming to join us, cara.
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Hate Gom, don't think they give a shit about esports just the money you can make out of it.
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wow thats just ridiculous how they can close down a barcraft like that..
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As a regular at Yaletown, BarCraft or not. Lower your damn pitchforks and torches if you have no idea what the hell your talking about/never been to the venue/have no knowledge of how this works.
Most of you guys who are hating or adding nothing but "i hate gom" or "WTF THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS," don't even live in Korea. Remember, most of you guys. This aint no OCCUPY or 99% crap. This is business, and without business, eSports is dead. GomTV probably had a reason for this, like it or not.
All you do by making GomTV the bad guy is hurting the game and eSports as a whole. After very little information given to us by "yaletown" you all decide to raise your pitchforks (aka tapping your keys on your keyboard in RAGE!!!!) Please, keep your emotions in check, just because you have anonymity doesn't mean this type of pitchforking is acceptable.
Cancel your subs, send your emails, protest! If you really want GomTV to be the bad guy, lets get rid of them as a whole and run the studio ourselves! Dont kid me.
Some of you have valid points, for and against this issue. I really do appreciate that some of you guys can keep a cool head. However, the others, some who may not even be old enough to go to a "BAR"craft, shut up. You are doing nothing but adding hate and animosity to a business, which believe it or not, makes people stay up at night to watch pixels against pixels.
So please, lower them. I said please. Thank you for reading this rant.
Will be following up with a concise version for people who dont like to read long posts.
GLHFR~
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
there was more hate in that post than the entire thread
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Please shut up and keep the drama out of eSports. This aint TL TMZ.
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haha gotta love esports drama and everything that hurts it
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On January 28 2012 01:55 Rekrul wrote:
there was more hate in that post than the entire thread
I like to call it non-constructive criticism on how some people handle situations. I will not take it back. Probably doesnt help I drank some soju before arriving home... Evil green bottles...
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On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
As a regular at Yaletown, BarCraft or not. Lower your damn pitchforks and torches if you have no idea what the hell your talking about/never been to the venue/have no knowledge of how this works.
Most of you guys who are hating or adding nothing but "i hate gom" or "WTF THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS," don't even live in Korea. Remember, most of you guys. This aint no OCCUPY or 99% crap. This is business, and without business, eSports is dead. GomTV probably had a reason for this, like it or not.
All you do by making GomTV the bad guy is hurting the game and eSports as a whole. After very little information given to us by "yaletown" you all decide to raise your pitchforks (aka tapping your keys on your keyboard in RAGE!!!!) Please, keep your emotions in check, just because you have anonymity doesn't mean this type of pitchforking is acceptable.
Cancel your subs, send your emails, protest! If you really want GomTV to be the bad guy, lets get rid of them as a whole and run the studio ourselves! Dont kid me.
Some of you have valid points, for and against this issue. I really do appreciate that some of you guys can keep a cool head. However, the others, some who may not even be old enough to go to a "BAR"craft, shut up. You are doing nothing but adding hate and animosity to a business, which believe it or not, makes people stay up at night to watch pixels against pixels.
So please, lower them. I said please. Thank you for reading this rant.
Will be following up with a concise version for people who dont like to read long posts.
GLHFR~
I have been attempting to contact GOMtv to get their side of the story since the news broke - PM and E-mail, as well as organizing people to tweet GOM amass and posting on GOMtv forum.
They have not responded thus far.
You're correct in reminding us that GOMtv is a business. Because it's a business, it has responsibility in keeping its customers happy. If a business adopt policies that make its customers unhappy, its bottom line would suffer. As GOMtv's customers, we are doing it a favor by proactively engaging and letting it know when a policy frustrates and annoys us.
If GOM chooses a policy to protect (questionably) its bottomline but damages the community that it feeds off from. A policy that can hurt the long term prospect of this community, then it must receive a proportional response until GOM is sufficiently swayed to reverse the policy. GOM is not all of StarCraft 2. We don't owe it to GOM if GOM chooses to hurt us.
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On January 27 2012 13:12 Primadog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It would hurt eSports if we do nothing. GOM acted unilaterally, used BarCraft Seoul when convenient to them, then shit over your group when they're done.
That's bullshit. We need to convince GOM that they're making mistake by threating BarCraft as an enemy. It does no good for this scene.
I can't confirm this as I only heard it secondhand (though like Kiett, I was in Seoul at the time it happened), but I believe that the guy that's in Korea filming Sons of Starcraft was the one that came to the Barcraft that day for filming. If it was him, this should not be interpreted as GOM using the Barcraft because that guy has no real affiliation with GOM other than being allowed to film footage for the documentary in studio.
And for what it's worth, I agree with P3psi that we need to wait this out and I'm sure that GOM or Jason will come forth with relevant details as they develop.
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don't think it's because they think lose money. You can watch GSL for free if you stay in Korea in much better quality than the English stream. Should be something else but it sucks anyway
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On January 25 2012 04:23 yaletown wrote:
Believe it or not, I recently received an email from GOM TV asking me NOT to host Barcrafts anymore. I then asked for a refund on my 1 year pass, which I paid for if I'm not allowed to host them and they abliged.
Therefore I will no longer be PROMOTING Barcrafts. If you would like to informally gather and ask me to turn on the TV to your favourite programs under your account, I can accomodate that.
As for the reasoning behind GOM's email, I have NO Idea at all...
Sorry to hear this, have not read through all the pages but it sucks that they think that way. Barcraft is a great way for a community to see each other IRL.
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On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
Most of you guys who are hating or adding nothing but "i hate gom" or "WTF THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS," don't even live in Korea. Remember, most of you guys. This aint no OCCUPY or 99% crap. This is business, and without business, eSports is dead. GomTV probably had a reason for this, like it or not.
Esports can survive without Gom. Of course Gom had a reason for this, whatever it may be, and we can react to it as customers however we choose. Gom has decided that it's smart to go shut down a tiny barcraft at the risk of upsetting an entire online community. Those types of choices will affect their business in the end, good or bad. If this little barcraft was in fact hurting their business, I wonder if it was hurting it as much as the backlash from this choice?
On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
All you do by making GomTV the bad guy is hurting the game and eSports as a whole. After very little information given to us by "yaletown" you all decide to raise your pitchforks (aka tapping your keys on your keyboard in RAGE!!!!) Please, keep your emotions in check, just because you have anonymity doesn't mean this type of pitchforking is acceptable.
Gom's been busy lately making controversial decisions. This is just one of them. I doubt many of us are sitting around "tapping our keys on our keyboard in RAGE!!!!" I'm personally just getting tired of their decisions lately (naniwa, no gstl on gsl yearly pass, this). We're not making Gom the bad guy, they're doing a fine job at that by themselves. If Gom dies, another will pop up in its place. Blizzard knows there's plenty of money to be made and selling the rights to televised starcraft is how they intend to make their money with starcraft 2. As much as I want to support the players and casters at Gom, it's really hard when they keep making decisions I disagree with (and we're all allowed to disagree with their decisions whether it's good for their business or not).
On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
Cancel your subs, send your emails, protest! If you really want GomTV to be the bad guy, lets get rid of them as a whole and run the studio ourselves! Dont kid me.
I think you're blowing the responses out of proportion. It would be awesome if Gom would stop being a good or bad guy, and just start providing us with quality sc2 without the extra bs. Most companies try to be as neutral as possible to avoid bad publicity. It feels as though whoever's in charge there (Mr Chae or whoever's actually calling the shots) just doesn't give a fuck about their public perception. Maybe this is just me misunderstanding Korean culture, but as a customer I have to interpret their actions as best as I can.
On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
You are doing nothing but adding hate and animosity to a business, which believe it or not, makes people stay up at night to watch pixels against pixels.
We stay up late at night to watch 2 people play a strategic match of skill against each other. Coincidentally, it has pretty graphics. You make it sound like we're just watching pixels fly across the screen with no meaning. That's what someone who doesn't actually understand why people would watch esports would think =/
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I wanna eat some burgers so I'm gonna be heading there, regardless of a Barcraft or not
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On January 28 2012 06:32 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
As a regular at Yaletown, BarCraft or not. Lower your damn pitchforks and torches if you have no idea what the hell your talking about/never been to the venue/have no knowledge of how this works.
Most of you guys who are hating or adding nothing but "i hate gom" or "WTF THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS," don't even live in Korea. Remember, most of you guys. This aint no OCCUPY or 99% crap. This is business, and without business, eSports is dead. GomTV probably had a reason for this, like it or not.
All you do by making GomTV the bad guy is hurting the game and eSports as a whole. After very little information given to us by "yaletown" you all decide to raise your pitchforks (aka tapping your keys on your keyboard in RAGE!!!!) Please, keep your emotions in check, just because you have anonymity doesn't mean this type of pitchforking is acceptable.
Cancel your subs, send your emails, protest! If you really want GomTV to be the bad guy, lets get rid of them as a whole and run the studio ourselves! Dont kid me.
Some of you have valid points, for and against this issue. I really do appreciate that some of you guys can keep a cool head. However, the others, some who may not even be old enough to go to a "BAR"craft, shut up. You are doing nothing but adding hate and animosity to a business, which believe it or not, makes people stay up at night to watch pixels against pixels.
So please, lower them. I said please. Thank you for reading this rant.
Will be following up with a concise version for people who dont like to read long posts.
GLHFR~ I have been attempting to contact GOMtv to get their side of the story since the news broke - PM and E-mail, as well as organizing people to tweet GOM amass and posting on GOMtv forum. They have not responded thus far. You're correct in reminding us that GOMtv is a business. Because it's a business, it has responsibility in keeping its customers happy. If a business adopt policies that make its customers unhappy, its bottom line would suffer. As GOMtv's customers, we are doing it a favor by proactively engaging and letting it know when a policy frustrates and annoys us. If GOM chooses a policy to protect (questionably) its bottomline but damages the community that it feeds off from. A policy that can hurt the long term prospect of this community, then it must receive a proportional response until GOM is sufficiently swayed to reverse the policy. GOM is not all of StarCraft 2. We don't owe it to GOM if GOM chooses to hurt us.
GOMtv has responded to my inquiries on January 29th through E-mail:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iopTbl.jpg)
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On January 28 2012 06:32 Primadog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
As a regular at Yaletown, BarCraft or not. Lower your damn pitchforks and torches if you have no idea what the hell your talking about/never been to the venue/have no knowledge of how this works.
Most of you guys who are hating or adding nothing but "i hate gom" or "WTF THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS," don't even live in Korea. Remember, most of you guys. This aint no OCCUPY or 99% crap. This is business, and without business, eSports is dead. GomTV probably had a reason for this, like it or not.
All you do by making GomTV the bad guy is hurting the game and eSports as a whole. After very little information given to us by "yaletown" you all decide to raise your pitchforks (aka tapping your keys on your keyboard in RAGE!!!!) Please, keep your emotions in check, just because you have anonymity doesn't mean this type of pitchforking is acceptable.
Cancel your subs, send your emails, protest! If you really want GomTV to be the bad guy, lets get rid of them as a whole and run the studio ourselves! Dont kid me.
Some of you have valid points, for and against this issue. I really do appreciate that some of you guys can keep a cool head. However, the others, some who may not even be old enough to go to a "BAR"craft, shut up. You are doing nothing but adding hate and animosity to a business, which believe it or not, makes people stay up at night to watch pixels against pixels.
So please, lower them. I said please. Thank you for reading this rant.
Will be following up with a concise version for people who dont like to read long posts.
GLHFR~ I have been attempting to contact GOMtv to get their side of the story since the news broke - PM and E-mail, as well as organizing people to tweet GOM amass and posting on GOMtv forum. They have not responded thus far. You're correct in reminding us that GOMtv is a business. Because it's a business, it has responsibility in keeping its customers happy. If a business adopt policies that make its customers unhappy, its bottom line would suffer. As GOMtv's customers, we are doing it a favor by proactively engaging and letting it know when a policy frustrates and annoys us. If GOM chooses a policy to protect (questionably) its bottomline but damages the community that it feeds off from. A policy that can hurt the long term prospect of this community, then it must receive a proportional response until GOM is sufficiently swayed to reverse the policy. GOM is not all of StarCraft 2. We don't owe it to GOM if GOM chooses to hurt us.
You should check your Business Basics textbook champ, businesses have a responsibility to their shareholders, not their customers.
On January 31 2012 16:14 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 06:32 Primadog wrote:On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
As a regular at Yaletown, BarCraft or not. Lower your damn pitchforks and torches if you have no idea what the hell your talking about/never been to the venue/have no knowledge of how this works.
Most of you guys who are hating or adding nothing but "i hate gom" or "WTF THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS," don't even live in Korea. Remember, most of you guys. This aint no OCCUPY or 99% crap. This is business, and without business, eSports is dead. GomTV probably had a reason for this, like it or not.
All you do by making GomTV the bad guy is hurting the game and eSports as a whole. After very little information given to us by "yaletown" you all decide to raise your pitchforks (aka tapping your keys on your keyboard in RAGE!!!!) Please, keep your emotions in check, just because you have anonymity doesn't mean this type of pitchforking is acceptable.
Cancel your subs, send your emails, protest! If you really want GomTV to be the bad guy, lets get rid of them as a whole and run the studio ourselves! Dont kid me.
Some of you have valid points, for and against this issue. I really do appreciate that some of you guys can keep a cool head. However, the others, some who may not even be old enough to go to a "BAR"craft, shut up. You are doing nothing but adding hate and animosity to a business, which believe it or not, makes people stay up at night to watch pixels against pixels.
So please, lower them. I said please. Thank you for reading this rant.
Will be following up with a concise version for people who dont like to read long posts.
GLHFR~ I have been attempting to contact GOMtv to get their side of the story since the news broke - PM and E-mail, as well as organizing people to tweet GOM amass and posting on GOMtv forum. They have not responded thus far. You're correct in reminding us that GOMtv is a business. Because it's a business, it has responsibility in keeping its customers happy. If a business adopt policies that make its customers unhappy, its bottom line would suffer. As GOMtv's customers, we are doing it a favor by proactively engaging and letting it know when a policy frustrates and annoys us. If GOM chooses a policy to protect (questionably) its bottomline but damages the community that it feeds off from. A policy that can hurt the long term prospect of this community, then it must receive a proportional response until GOM is sufficiently swayed to reverse the policy. GOM is not all of StarCraft 2. We don't owe it to GOM if GOM chooses to hurt us. GOMtv has responded to my inquiries on January 29th through E-mail:
Was this not obviously the reason for it happening? It was called on page two of this very thread...
Anyway, now that's cleared up, care to end this crusade?
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On January 31 2012 16:44 Eishi_Ki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 06:32 Primadog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
As a regular at Yaletown, BarCraft or not. Lower your damn pitchforks and torches if you have no idea what the hell your talking about/never been to the venue/have no knowledge of how this works.
Most of you guys who are hating or adding nothing but "i hate gom" or "WTF THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS," don't even live in Korea. Remember, most of you guys. This aint no OCCUPY or 99% crap. This is business, and without business, eSports is dead. GomTV probably had a reason for this, like it or not.
All you do by making GomTV the bad guy is hurting the game and eSports as a whole. After very little information given to us by "yaletown" you all decide to raise your pitchforks (aka tapping your keys on your keyboard in RAGE!!!!) Please, keep your emotions in check, just because you have anonymity doesn't mean this type of pitchforking is acceptable.
Cancel your subs, send your emails, protest! If you really want GomTV to be the bad guy, lets get rid of them as a whole and run the studio ourselves! Dont kid me.
Some of you have valid points, for and against this issue. I really do appreciate that some of you guys can keep a cool head. However, the others, some who may not even be old enough to go to a "BAR"craft, shut up. You are doing nothing but adding hate and animosity to a business, which believe it or not, makes people stay up at night to watch pixels against pixels.
So please, lower them. I said please. Thank you for reading this rant.
Will be following up with a concise version for people who dont like to read long posts.
GLHFR~ I have been attempting to contact GOMtv to get their side of the story since the news broke - PM and E-mail, as well as organizing people to tweet GOM amass and posting on GOMtv forum. They have not responded thus far. You're correct in reminding us that GOMtv is a business. Because it's a business, it has responsibility in keeping its customers happy. If a business adopt policies that make its customers unhappy, its bottom line would suffer. As GOMtv's customers, we are doing it a favor by proactively engaging and letting it know when a policy frustrates and annoys us. If GOM chooses a policy to protect (questionably) its bottomline but damages the community that it feeds off from. A policy that can hurt the long term prospect of this community, then it must receive a proportional response until GOM is sufficiently swayed to reverse the policy. GOM is not all of StarCraft 2. We don't owe it to GOM if GOM chooses to hurt us. You should check your Business Basics textbook champ, businesses have a responsibility to their shareholders, not their customers. Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 16:14 Primadog wrote:On January 28 2012 06:32 Primadog wrote:On January 28 2012 01:53 P3psi wrote:
As a regular at Yaletown, BarCraft or not. Lower your damn pitchforks and torches if you have no idea what the hell your talking about/never been to the venue/have no knowledge of how this works.
Most of you guys who are hating or adding nothing but "i hate gom" or "WTF THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS," don't even live in Korea. Remember, most of you guys. This aint no OCCUPY or 99% crap. This is business, and without business, eSports is dead. GomTV probably had a reason for this, like it or not.
All you do by making GomTV the bad guy is hurting the game and eSports as a whole. After very little information given to us by "yaletown" you all decide to raise your pitchforks (aka tapping your keys on your keyboard in RAGE!!!!) Please, keep your emotions in check, just because you have anonymity doesn't mean this type of pitchforking is acceptable.
Cancel your subs, send your emails, protest! If you really want GomTV to be the bad guy, lets get rid of them as a whole and run the studio ourselves! Dont kid me.
Some of you have valid points, for and against this issue. I really do appreciate that some of you guys can keep a cool head. However, the others, some who may not even be old enough to go to a "BAR"craft, shut up. You are doing nothing but adding hate and animosity to a business, which believe it or not, makes people stay up at night to watch pixels against pixels.
So please, lower them. I said please. Thank you for reading this rant.
Will be following up with a concise version for people who dont like to read long posts.
GLHFR~ I have been attempting to contact GOMtv to get their side of the story since the news broke - PM and E-mail, as well as organizing people to tweet GOM amass and posting on GOMtv forum. They have not responded thus far. You're correct in reminding us that GOMtv is a business. Because it's a business, it has responsibility in keeping its customers happy. If a business adopt policies that make its customers unhappy, its bottom line would suffer. As GOMtv's customers, we are doing it a favor by proactively engaging and letting it know when a policy frustrates and annoys us. If GOM chooses a policy to protect (questionably) its bottomline but damages the community that it feeds off from. A policy that can hurt the long term prospect of this community, then it must receive a proportional response until GOM is sufficiently swayed to reverse the policy. GOM is not all of StarCraft 2. We don't owe it to GOM if GOM chooses to hurt us. GOMtv has responded to my inquiries on January 29th through E-mail: Was this not obviously the reason for it happening? It was called on page two of this very thread... Anyway, now that's cleared up, care to end this crusade?
Amen scottsman
And Rad, you dont get the message of my post. Gom has responded. And so far, I dont think I was wrong at all. Just think that people need to know that they wont always get what they want and dont need to throw a fit about it. Irony, I made a fit about people making a fit.
Fitception....
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Also this was another alcohol induced post~
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iopTb.jpg)
