• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:38
CEST 23:38
KST 06:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 2026 Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Where is EffOrt? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9188 users

PvT Training Day, January 2012

Forum Index > TL Community
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2594 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 08:07:03
October 07 2011 12:51 GMT
#1
[image loading]


Saturday, Jan 07 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)


This event is now completed. Thank you to everyone who participated!

Training Day was a 10-hour Diamond and Master-level PvT training session in which eight players and four coaches (QXC, Masq, CecilSunkure and NrgMonk) participated. Over the coming days, I will be creating highlights of the original videos to allow quick access to the best bits. In the meantime, you can find the complete VODs of the entire day on the following streams' pages:

Main stream

7mk
Excludos
Chelch
Blazinghand
GzStrom
Utikiz

+ Show Spoiler +

Welcome to the new, leaner Training Day OP! For the longer, original post, see the spoiler at the bottom.

This thread is dedicated to Training Day, January 7th, 2012. From Saturday, Jan 07 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) to Saturday, Jan 07 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), I will be joined on my stream by eight Diamond and Master league players and four coaches. We will spend the day devoted to learning all there is to learn about the Protoss v Terran matchup.

The Coaches
(T)qxc + Show Spoiler [bio] +
[image loading]
You've probably heard of him.

Masq + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Under construction!

(P)CecilSunkure + Show Spoiler [bio] +

[image loading]

If you've spent any time at all in the SC2 strategy forum, Randy "(P)CecilSunkure" Gaul requires no introduction. He is best known around these parts as the author of a remarkable number of excellent strategy guides (list here) and a pair of excellent blogs on computer programming (here and here). He is also a member of the young team KiwiClone Army and has agreed to offer us his high-level insight into the Protoss side of the PvT matchup!

If you'd like to offer your thanks and support to Cecil, please head over to his fan club or drop by this thread to learn how you can get your paws on him for some 1 on 1 coaching!

NrGmonk + Show Spoiler [bio] +
NrGmonk describes himself as "that guy from the strategy forum." A member of team NrG, he is indeed well known for his excellent contributions to TL's SC2 strategy discussions, examples of which can be found in his profile.


The Players
All eight player slots are now filled! Thanks so much to everyone that expressed interest. If you are still interested in playing, please drop by the chat during the event and say hi; if anyone doesn't show up or has to leave early, I'll bring people on from chat to fill their slots.

The Training Day cadre are:
AmericanUmlaut + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Hi! My name is Benjamin Stürmer, and I'm an American expat working full time as a computer programmer in Düsseldorf Germany and occasionally as a freelance Japanese/German/English translator and interpretor. When I'm not playing SC2 or hanging out with my awesome little 1 1/2 year old daughter, I like to play the piano, go out ballroom dancing with my wife and juggle.

Excludos + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Andreas is a 22 year old Electrical Engineering major from Norway. In addition to his computer game habit, he enjoys playing sports and is currently interested in MMA. Of himself, he says. "...like most people here, my life revolves around computers. I simply love playing computer games, and I work part time at a local computer store when I'm not sitting in front of one at home."

7mk + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Thomas is a 23 year old medicine student from Germany. He lives in Leipzig with his girlfriend and their little dog, and when he's not playing SC2 or studying, he enjoys making music (even some SC-related music before SC2 came along) and photography. He likes to visit European SC2 events and hang out with other TL nerds. He says, "Celebrating on stage after HerO won Dreamhack was by far the best SC-related moment I've had and probably one of the best in general."

Chelch + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Alex is a computer programmer and a high-diamond Protoss from the UK. Of his own play, he says, "I think PvT is my best matchup by far, but that I'm always looking to improve on anything!"


Defex + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Daniel is a physics student from Denmark. He has been playing SC2 since beta, and has even spent time as a coach himself, something that will surely be a great contribution to our Training Day experience. In addition, he is an elite national-level athlete (100 meter dash) and has toured Europe as a drummer!

Blazinghand + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Noah is an undergraduate economics student in the USA and works as a part time computer programmer. He says of himself: "I am half-Korean which gives me all kinds of sweet Starcraft skills. I play saxophone and enjoy long walks on the beach."

Utikiz + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Bjørk is our youngest participant at just 15 years of age. He lives in Denmark, where he attends school and plays piano in a band with his friends. He has been playing SC2 for almost a year, and is in his own words, "would love to take part in this since well... TvP isn't my greatest matchup, and i love to meet new people."

GzStrom + Show Spoiler [bio] +
Connor is an engineer from South Africa. In addition to his master rank as Terran, he's achieved a diamond ranking as random.


Where to find us
Streams:

Main stream

7mk
Excludos
Chelch
Blazinghand
GzStrom
Utikiz

I'll add more streams as players and coaches confirm that they'll be able to stream. Any time I'm not either observing coaching or being coached myself, I'll make sure to let the viewers know what stream they can switch to to follow the coaches. I had hoped to get Training Day featured so that you could see all of the associated streams in the side bar, but unfortunately Training Day doesn't meet TL's requirements for a featured event. Maybe next time!

TeamSpeak: The main group will be communicating via Skype and on TL's TeamSpeak server. Please come and set up your own TeamSpeak rooms for your level of play and matchup!

IRC: I will be setting up an IRC chatroom for everyone to hang out in. Drop by! Talk about how amazingly bad I am! Find a practice partner! I will update this with the name of the chatroom once I've set it up.

Donations
Quite a few people have PMed me on the subject of helping me out financially with Training Day. Thanks so much for your offers! At the moment, though, my costs for coaching time and hardware are not that much and I wouldn't be comfortable asking for help. If that changes, I'll update this accordingly.

+ Show Spoiler [The original OP] +

One Day. One Matchup. One Goal.

We are Team Liquid - a community bound by our shared passion for Starcraft. The vast majority of us will never be able to devote our lives to the game that we love; instead, we find time between our jobs, our families, our studies, and our other responsibilities. And that's a good thing - for most of us, Starcraft is just a hobby.

But what if, for just one day, you could shut out the rest of the world, gather together with your Team Liquid brethren (and sistren) and devote yourself completely to the study of the game? And what if you were joined by a couple of professional coaches to guide your studies and help focus your efforts?

Well, those are ridicuous questions, because it's obvious that it would be fucking awesome.

And so I'm doing it. I am looking for seven awesome individuals who burn to master the PvT matchup and have a Saturday to devote to that pursuit.



[image loading]


Players

Are you a Diamond or Master League Protoss or Terran? Do you have a microphone and a burning passion to improve? Are you a generally awesome human being? Then sign up! Reply to this thread using the following template:

ID on EU: Capybara.179
Your race: Protoss
Your league: Diamond
Can you stream/record the day? Yes

That's it! Before the big day comes, I'll just ask that you have TeamSpeak, Skype and an IRC client installed, since that's how we'll all be keeping in touch.

Don't worry if you can't stream. I'd just like to make sure that at least a few people in the group are able to record our experience, since I feel like an archive of many hours of practice and coaching in a single matchup could be a useful resource to the community.



[image loading]


Questions
Will this cost money?
Yes, but not for you.

I will be getting coaches, but I will pay them myself for two reasons: I won't ask professional players to risk not getting what they were promised due to douchebaggery, and it seems like a nice thing to do. I will organize a donation account to support the event, though, and I'll be grateful for any assistance I can get, but I won't be demanding any money from anybody.

Why only PvT?
I hate Zerg.

Okay, that's not true. In fact, I offrace as Zerg. It's just this: This is the first ever Training Day, and I want to keep it simple. A small number of players practicing one matchup for one day seems manageable. I hope that in the future, it will be possible to have a bigger group practicing more matchups, but for a first event, I'm keeping it small and simple.

Why do you hate lower-league players?
I swear, I don't! In a perfect world, I would organize groups for every league! This is something I absolutely want to be able to do in the future, but this time around, as I wrote above, I'm trying to keep this thing simple.

What if I can't participate?
You're not on EU? You haven't quite made Diamond yet? You signed up too late? Not to worry! I will be streaming my experience all day, and I'll be encouraging everyone else to do the same. Watching someone else get coached isn't as good as getting coached yourself, but it's something! Do post to this thread if you're interested though, even if you don't fit the criteria this time around; I'd like to see how much interest there is in the community for future Training Days!

What if I'm not a generally awesome human being?
Asking that question using a Team Liquid account is paradoxical.



Participants
I'll keep this list updated with the accounts of interested players as people post. The lists are obviously pretty full, so I can't guarantee you you'll get a spot, but please go ahead and sign up anyhow! I'll involve as many people as I possibly can, and it's very helpful for me to know how much interest an event like this has so that I can try to plan a better structure for next time!

I will be sending out PMs as the event gets closer to confirm who can make it, and I'll let you know a week or two in advance if you've been selected to join the core group. If not, though, please come join us on the streams and in IRC - there will be plenty of other players to train with!

+ Show Spoiler [Protoss] +
Capybara.179
Bourne.178
Excludos.369
Watercrystal.703
Chelch.892
Sansai.673
ODKStevez.782
NexCa.244
Cyro.719
ELecTro.307
Noticimus.858
pal.387
FireFish.313
Serge.485
Draken.784
JanZai.184
eVoidray.544
Zaxon.727
Vector.904
Glythrin.141
Federigo.109
MaxtoR.643
Tech.129
Dean.452
Bowser.256
MGǂJedi.185
Drolla.595
+ Show Spoiler [Terran] +
Bananashee.310
Wuiph.777
Blazinghand.736
Saber.772
Utikiz.731
Amazonic.727
Kai.414
Maybes.824
Zion.882
Khazidhea.617
Veni.914
Soviet.162
sVnteen.818
Pneumothorax.531
Entry.889
Lokacitron.369
Defex.142
LaMbda.799
IntoTheLight.480
NIgsCluEleSs.788


The frumious Bandersnatch
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2594 Posts
October 07 2011 16:36 GMT
#2
I'm going to give this a bump in the hope that the lack of response is because I posted at a bad time and not because I'm the only one who thinks this is a good idea .
The frumious Bandersnatch
Choboo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden2088 Posts
October 07 2011 16:38 GMT
#3
January seems pretty far away :o
SaSe fan club manager
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
October 07 2011 16:40 GMT
#4
I for one think its a brilliant idea, if I still played SC2 I would absolutley be up for it, and I think its awesome that you are organizing it. ^_^
Moderator
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2574 Posts
October 07 2011 16:41 GMT
#5
I like the initiative. Are you going to structure this at all in terms of what you're working on at any given time?
Enervate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1769 Posts
October 07 2011 16:58 GMT
#6
To protect the sheep you gotta catch the wolf, and it takes a wolf to catch a wolf.
Fission
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1184 Posts
October 07 2011 17:24 GMT
#7
I'd do it but I don't have an EU acc
Bourne
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom152 Posts
October 07 2011 17:25 GMT
#8
ID on EU: Bourne.178
Your race: Protoss
Your league: Diamond
Can you stream/record the day? No
MuATaran
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada231 Posts
October 07 2011 18:15 GMT
#9
Sounds like a lot of fun, I dont have an EU account or I would sign up but I think I will check out some of the streams
"Our Banshees will blot out the Sun! ... Then we shall Stim in the Shade." - Doa
Animostas
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States568 Posts
October 07 2011 18:21 GMT
#10
This is really cool idea: deliberate, specific, practice.But maybe you're planning a bit too far ahead? o.o
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2594 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-07 14:11:23
October 07 2011 18:37 GMT
#11
On October 08 2011 01:38 Choboo wrote:
January seems pretty far away :o

I totally understand that, but I'd rather do this with a bit too much lead time and make sure I have everything organized and set up so that the event is as successful as possible than do it with too little lead time and ruin an opportunity to contribute something of value to the community.

On October 08 2011 03:21 Animostas wrote:
This is really cool idea: deliberate, specific, practice.But maybe you're planning a bit too far ahead? o.o

The timing is mostly because I will spend all December moving into a new apartment that will have a room suitable to hosting this event. I didn't want to wait to announce my plans, though, because if I didn't just man up and post my intentions on TL, I was leaving myself the option to turn chicken and not do it. Now the post is up, so I'm committed.

There have already been several comments that this is too far away, though, and the whole point of the this thread is to allow me lots of time to collect and respond to feedback, so I'm making my first change: Training Day will be taking place January 7th rather than the 21st. This is absolutely, positively as early as my personal life will allow it to take place (unless I can find seven people willing to take a day of vacation and do it during the week), so as much as I'd like to move it a bit further forward, it's simply not an option.

On October 08 2011 01:58 Enervate wrote:
To protect the sheep you gotta catch the wolf, and it takes a wolf to catch a wolf.

That's only a paradox if I accept your description of the reality in which the argument takes place. Replacing half the sheep with Banelings in sheeps' clothing would give me really good odds of taking out the wolf with sheep left over.

On October 08 2011 01:41 AirbladeOrange wrote:
I like the initiative. Are you going to structure this at all in terms of what you're working on at any given time?

Yes, absolutely, but I'm holding back on releasing anything like a schedule for a while because I'm hoping that this thread will generate some ideas.

The basic format that I currently have in mind is something like this:

-- Edited format out, the current plan is completely different than what I wrote here --

Any thoughts?
The frumious Bandersnatch
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 18:46:44
October 07 2011 18:44 GMT
#12
Man. Would love to participate in this one. I work on Saturdays though Very nice initiative indeed.

EDIT: Nvm. Didn't notice it was all the way until January I should be able to get a day off that far into the future

Signing up!

ID on EU: Excludos.369
Your race: Protoss
Your league: Master
Can you stream/record the day? Yes, definitively
Watercrystal
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
58 Posts
October 07 2011 19:11 GMT
#13
Hihi, great idea!

Signing up dudes

ID on EU: Watercrystal.703
Your Race: Protoss
Your league: Diamond
Can you stream/record the day? Maybe if my new PC is in time, I should get my stream up.
GzStrom
Profile Joined January 2011
South Africa51 Posts
October 07 2011 19:25 GMT
#14
Amazing Idea

ID on EU: Bananashee.310
Your Race: Terran
Your league: Diamond
Can you stream/record the day? Possibly, depends on my ISP at the time as well as my usage.
6pool.. ON 8!
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
October 07 2011 21:07 GMT
#15
Just want to say that AmericanUmlaut is a really cool dude and I completely support this initiative.

Rotti and I might come take part depending on what our ESL schedules have us doing.

In the mean time, good luck to everyone else who takes part in this.
Chelch
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom159 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 21:45:24
October 07 2011 21:34 GMT
#16
ID on EU: Chelch.892
Your race: Protoss
Your league: Diamond
Can you stream/record the day? Probably, yes, I'll be getting a computer capable of this soon

This is a great idea!
Sansai
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria188 Posts
October 07 2011 22:09 GMT
#17
Sign me up Sir!

ID on EU: Sansai.673
Your race: Protoss
Your league: (mid/high) Diamond
Can you stream/record the day? Yes, XSplit already configured for the most common streaming services (twitch, ustream, own3d), also have experience in casting and basic cutting techniques
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2594 Posts
October 07 2011 22:12 GMT
#18
Okay, dudes, every Protoss who's signed up so far needs to PM one Terran friend and get them involved! Either that or we're going to be practicing a lot of PvP .
The frumious Bandersnatch
Wuiph
Profile Joined October 2011
Austria28 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-28 04:55:37
October 07 2011 22:26 GMT
#19
Terran who beat you with nasty tricks signing up

EU-
Wuiph #777
Diamond
Random/Terran
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
October 07 2011 22:26 GMT
#20
I'm a master league Terran on NA but I have access to an EU account. can I take part?
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ZombieGrub336
ProTech100
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1530
Super Smash Bros
PPMD14
Other Games
summit1g9178
Grubby4021
shahzam616
B2W.Neo341
uThermal318
FrodaN301
Trikslyr294
mouzStarbuck253
Liquid`Hasu193
C9.Mang0137
UpATreeSC58
Mew2King55
Tefel13
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream3497
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 59
• StrangeGG 38
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 55
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2548
League of Legends
• TFBlade860
Other Games
• imaqtpie968
• Shiphtur150
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 22m
ByuN vs Shameless
PiGosaur Cup
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
GSL
4 days
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
[ Show More ]
Patches Events
5 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Proleague 2026-06-15
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.