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United Kingdom20341 Posts
I would go for OC - or at least, all the way or not at all. If you want to run at like ~4.4-4.7ghz as opposed to ~3.7, it's worth it, sometimes it pays for itself in terms of parts cost etc, other times it's useless so you need to decide if you want/need it for your applications.
If you want two matching screens, it's kinda harder to replace both of them. Main reasons for upgrade would be either resolution on primary screen (maybe color accuracy, viewing angles etc.. i don't know anything about your current screens and couldn't find much info) or getting a faster ~1080p monitor. There's a few @120hz and on top of that, strobe backlights for such monitors are starting to become more common and used which makes regular LCD displays look like a joke in terms of motion performance. If you want minimal mouse-to-screen latency and especially performance in an FPS game that you're willing to run at ~120fps, it's pretty much no brainer to get one of those IMO (after using one myself)
If you're like my friend who will run aggressive settings like supersampling even though he's dipping to 40fps, it's not much use
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Well, it's a somewhat old 60 Hz CCFL-backlit TN monitor model. If they were U2209WA I think there'd be a stronger case to keep the monitor situation.
There's nothing saying you can't use the old monitors or that you need two new ones if you bought any. Or that you need U2414H over say P2414H (if not a smaller model), as all you're getting is just different inputs / better factory calibration / thinner bezel. Or that you should stick with ~60 Hz models in the first place if it's for gaming.
By the way, it's a little off (a couple percent) but not that bad in terms of pixel pitch if put next to each other:
22" 1680x1050 - 0.282 mm
23.8" 1920x1080 - 0.275 mm
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OC it is then!
Regarding the monitors: In the monitor thread I saw you(Cyro and Myrmidon) mentiononing a sort of monitor revolution happening currently, I might just wait a few months for one of those "native 1080p gsync/ulmb at like 300 euro" (120hz+). I would definately prefer my fps not to drop below 60 to often, and considering I play many FPS games, a 120hz monitor sounds very reasonable. Though I'm unsure BF4 will run anywhere near that framerate, it will be nice for things like CSGO. 
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United Kingdom20341 Posts
csgo = easy whatever fps you want, bf4 if you're playing a lot you'd probably want an amd card (Mantle gives over 1.5x performance vs dx11 when not gpu limited in many cases and the game runs poorly for an FPS on dx11)
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native 1080p gsync eh? won't lie, that sounds sexy. if mantle is implemented in a limited amount of games I think green offers something sexier tbh
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So taking into consideration all the previous I'd end up with:
CPU Intel Core i5 4670K Boxed € 194.50
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z87-D3HP € 111.99
RAM G.Skill Ares F3-2133C9D-8GAB € 89.65
SSD Samsung 840 EVO 500GB € 275.00
Case Corsair Carbide 400R € 86.12
PSU Seasonic G-Serie 450Watt €72.94
CPU Cooler Thermalright True Spirit 140 € 36.66
€ 866.86
With GPU options being something like:
R9 290 at € 380 http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/361816/gigabyte-gv-r929oc-4gd.html
R9 280x at € 270 http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/361259/gigabyte-gv-r928xoc-3gd-ga.html
R9 270x at € 210 http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/362968/gigabyte-gv-r927xoc-4gd.html
Assuming the fps difference here is the same as between the nvidia cards, I'm leaning towards the higher end choice. It still leaves enough room in my budget to pick up a 120hz monitor later on, and will hopefully be more equipped to take full advantage of that.
-edit: Looking at power usages of the R9 cards; Peak usage seems to spike rather high, would a 290 require a higher wattage?
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United Kingdom20341 Posts
Mantle's worth depends entirely on how many games are made that are demanding and scale with it. Having a 780ti over a 650ti is no use if the only game we have is sc2 on low settings, for example
Bf4 runs badly on dx. Very badly, it's painful to play compared to csgo/quake even on oc'd 4770k, while in comparison you can flick a switch and have this kind of thing happen:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FlJZXHm.png)
^whenever you're not GPU limited. Same on star citizen - over 3x FPS at times. That is, if you have powerful enough gpu/s to support the settings you want; that often means buying powerful GPU's or turning down settings. It's not too hard to get that kind of performance from bf4 if you're not maxing it with msaa but it's also way way harder to do it with dx, so if you're a battlefield person who wants 120hz it's kinda mandatory to have a radeon GPU ~r9 280+ tier
If they only make games that people with first gen stock i5's can run comfortably using directx, then we won't see much benefit from mantle, but if they're throwing out stuff like planetside 2 and sc2 that would choke to death without mantle, it'd be extremely important to have
-edit: Looking at power usages of the R9 cards; Peak usage seems to spike rather high, would a 290 require a higher wattage?
550 would be good for overclocking freely and aggressively on CPU + 290/780 tier gpu. Personally from that build i'd shift stuff around a bit, some argue for >120gb ssd but 500 seems excessive (depends if you really want it; it's hard to "need" that big) and z87x-d3h + better cooling is nice
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planetside 2 has mantle? i might get it just to see how mantle works in game.
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On February 26 2014 06:56 Cyro wrote:
550 would be good for overclocking freely and aggressively on CPU + 290/780 tier gpu. Personally from that build i'd shift stuff around a bit, some argue for >120gb ssd but 500 seems excessive (depends if you really want it; it's hard to "need" that big) and z87x-d3h + better cooling is nice
I'll take your word on this I end up with:
CPU Intel Core i5 4670K Boxed € 194.50
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H € 117.99
RAM G.Skill Ares F3-2133C9D-8GAB € 89.65
GPU Gigabyte GV-R929OC-4GD € 381,98 (The windforce cooler one)
SSD Samsung 840 EVO 250GB € 139.98
Case Corsair Carbide 400R € 86.12 (Seems big enough)
PSU Seasonic G-Serie 550Watt € 86.90
CPU Cooler Noctua NH-U14S € 64.94
€ 1,162.06
It's nice to see that this is only 7 euro's up from my initial build, and probably a lot more optimal for what I want to do with it!
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United Kingdom20341 Posts
On February 26 2014 07:10 Incognoto wrote:
planetside 2 has mantle? i might get it just to see how mantle works in game.
It does not, nor does sc2. They both need something better than what they have, though, being CPU limited and heavy on one thread in high load scenarios
+1 on the tri-x if it's that price. It seems the best because there's lots of disappointing stuff on the r9 290/290x cards, companies re-using coolers from other high end gpu's, one which didn't even have contact with the 290/290x GPU on several heatpipes (can't remember which it was) because they used a previous design even though it didn't fit
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I looked at that one to, but the cheapest one that is actually in stock, and deliverable within a reasonable timeframe is unfortunately around 425, which is significantly more!
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On February 26 2014 08:20 Tarias wrote:I looked at that one to, but the cheapest one that is actually in stock, and deliverable within a reasonable timeframe is unfortunately around 425, which is significantly more!
ah that's unfortunate.
well, just wanted to point out tha tthe tri-x is the card to consider. all things said and done, at that price, yeah, maybe go for windforce. ^^
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Hi all,if someone could help me please,i wanna buy a new Sistem destop for gaming,and i need some opinions.
What is your budget?
- 500 Euro
What is your monitor's native resolution?
- 1280x1024
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
- i wanna play starcraft 2 on medium-high settings smoothly during all game,and in big battles to run smooth witout lag
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
- just gaming
Do you intend to overclock?
-no
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
-i dont know what that means,so i quess no..
Do you need an operating system?
-no i have a friend,he will help me put windows 7 and 64 bit operating system
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
- no i dont need a monitor,just the board,just the sistem destop
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
-yes i would love an i5 if this is possible,i do not want amd,i go for intel,6 GB ram i think it will be nice,and a good video card to meet i5 expectation
What country will you be buying your parts in?
-Im from Romania,so from Romania
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
-so that's all,if someone could help me i would really appreciate,i just wanna play sc2 smoothly on medium-high settings witout stream,just 1vs1 ladder. Thanks all.
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On February 27 2014 15:46 Style15 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Hi all,if someone could help me please,i wanna buy a new Sistem destop for gaming,and i need some opinions.
What is your budget?
- 500 Euro
What is your monitor's native resolution?
- 1280x1024
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
- i wanna play starcraft 2 on medium-high settings smoothly during all game,and in big battles to run smooth witout lag
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
- just gaming
Do you intend to overclock?
-no
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
-i dont know what that means,so i quess no..
Do you need an operating system?
-no i have a friend,he will help me put windows 7 and 64 bit operating system
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
- no i dont need a monitor,just the board,just the sistem destop
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
-yes i would love an i5 if this is possible,i do not want amd,i go for intel,6 GB ram i think it will be nice,and a good video card to meet i5 expectation
What country will you be buying your parts in?
-Im from Romania,so from Romania
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
-so that's all,if someone could help me i would really appreciate,i just wanna play sc2 smoothly on medium-high settings witout stream,just 1vs1 ladder. Thanks all.
I'm not too sure about Romanian prices or retailers.
€500 is definitely a budget system but it should be fine.
Any particular reason you want the i5 by the way? To put things simply, an i5 is a €200 processor, in a €500 rig that kind of hurts, especially if you're just going to play SC2, which performs the same whether it's on dual core or quad core. Simply put, an i5 is out of this build's budget and i3 will perform just as well as the i5 in SC2 and most games as well (this doesn't hold true for CPU bound games like BF4 perhaps).
You're right in wanting an Intel processor though; SC2 isn't an optimized game so you need hardcore single thread performance. Haswell gives you just that. An i3 4340, which is a dual core processor at 3,6 GHz (it also has hyperthreading) should be just right for a build such as this one. You can get a slightly slower i3 (3,4 GHz) if needed due to budget constraints. You'll be wanting an H81 motherboard to go with this i3, they're the cheapest motherboards generally speaking and they get the job done. i3 is like €140 for the 3,6 GHz one, less for a slwer processor. H81 board is closer to €40-50.
Go with 2x4 GB of 1600 MHz RAM at 1.5V, that should do the trick. I use pcpartpicker.com to easily find such RAM. Just get the cheapest RAM that fills those criteria. An H81 board has 2 RAM slots only (if it has more you'll be paying more as well) so 6 Gb of RAM can't be done. 4 Gb of RAM can be considered somewhat insufficient. Should be €60-70.
Good case and PSU to get would be the Core 1000 for a budget case (€40) and something like an 450W PSU: XFX Core or XFX Pro (€40-50?). Be sure not to buy a shitty PSU. These two are go-to budget choices.
Get a 1 TB HDD or something, SSD is obviously out of your budget and it's silly to get a 60 Gb SSD imo. That should cost maybe €50. You could arguably get a smaller HDD for a smaller price, say 500 Gb or something.. but it wouldn't be as cost-efficient (you'd be paying more money /Gb).
Finally for your GPU, I might recommend the GTX 750. It's €110 and it should destroy SC2. It'll also do quite decently in other games considering the resolution you're playing at. Hell, even at 1080p this card isn't that bad (though for 1080p I think I'd rather get a 750 Ti). Get a good cooler though; ie something like an MSI Twin Frozr or Gigabyte Windforce cooler.
I did a mock build with German retailers and landed at €510. I would be closer to €600 with an i5; all these parts are as low as you can go without buying crap.
Try to look at romanian retailers and come back with links to stuff to order.
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On February 26 2014 15:54 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 08:20 Tarias wrote:I looked at that one to, but the cheapest one that is actually in stock, and deliverable within a reasonable timeframe is unfortunately around 425, which is significantly more! ah that's unfortunate. well, just wanted to point out tha tthe tri-x is the card to consider. all things said and done, at that price, yeah, maybe go for windforce. ^^
Just ordered all the parts, ended up going with the tri-x anyways. I sent the retailer I'm buying the other parts at an email asking them about delivery times for the tri-x, they said it might take around a month. So I decided just to wait it out, since I'm relatively busy with school anyways. I'll post an update here once everything is assembled and running :D
Thanks for the help everyone!
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Well you'll still be able to use your computer with integrated graphics until then!
HD 4200 probably isn't that good though. I think low settings on not too demanding games :p
Edit: @style
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r7-250x-graphics-card-review,3747-3.html
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1890/pg6/xfx-r7-240-and-r7-250-vs-gt-640-and-gt-630-esports-performance-review-starcraft-2.html
The second benchmark was done done with an i7-4960X @ 4.0 GHz. This is Ivy-Bridge-E with 6 cores, which I think has about 10% lower IPC than Haswell (not sure about numbers, but it does have lower IPC for sure).
SC2 doesn't scale past 2 cores, remember. There are little gains, if any, of getting a quad-core i5 over a dual-core i3. Remeber that SC2 is a CPU-bound game first. Unless I'm mistaken, at lower resolutions, what gets you performance and FPS is the CPU. The first system you linked has a slow ivy bridge CPU. It's clocked slower and it has lower IPC (meaning that at a given clock rate, it'll do less instructions than a Haswell). The second system you linked is better; it has a Haswell in it, and it's clocked slightly faster. The second system is much better, however it's still going to be slower than a faster dual core i3. A Haswell dual-core at 3.6 GHz (ie i3 4340) will out-perform a Haswell quad-core at 3.3 GHz (I5 4440).
The GTX 750 outperforms the R7 250 quite hard. It's a new architecture, it's power efficient (meaning less heat is generated, which is very valuable for a budget build in a budget case (with budget airflow) with a budget PSU), overall it's a better card than the R7 250 in nearly every aspect. The R7 250 is cheaper but in terms of cost-efficiency I think it's a poor buy. The GTX 750 has very new architecture and it also overclocks like a beast.
Simply put, the second system you linked (with the i5 4440 and the R7 250) will probably run SC2 at the settings you want just fine. However, a rig you build yourself will do much better at an equivalent cost. Also I'm not sure about getting a prebuilt system with Linux in it. Having Windows quite cheap is the primary reason to go with prebuilts. To go further, prebuilts have unknown PSUs and motherboards, you're better off buying good components yourself.
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On February 27 2014 17:39 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 15:46 Style15 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Hi all,if someone could help me please,i wanna buy a new Sistem destop for gaming,and i need some opinions.
What is your budget?
- 500 Euro
What is your monitor's native resolution?
- 1280x1024
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
- i wanna play starcraft 2 on medium-high settings smoothly during all game,and in big battles to run smooth witout lag
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
- just gaming
Do you intend to overclock?
-no
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
-i dont know what that means,so i quess no..
Do you need an operating system?
-no i have a friend,he will help me put windows 7 and 64 bit operating system
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
- no i dont need a monitor,just the board,just the sistem destop
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
-yes i would love an i5 if this is possible,i do not want amd,i go for intel,6 GB ram i think it will be nice,and a good video card to meet i5 expectation
What country will you be buying your parts in?
-Im from Romania,so from Romania
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
-so that's all,if someone could help me i would really appreciate,i just wanna play sc2 smoothly on medium-high settings witout stream,just 1vs1 ladder. Thanks all.
I'm not too sure about Romanian prices or retailers. €500 is definitely a budget system but it should be fine. Any particular reason you want the i5 by the way? To put things simply, an i5 is a €200 processor, in a €500 rig that kind of hurts, especially if you're just going to play SC2, which performs the same whether it's on dual core or quad core. Simply put, an i5 is out of this build's budget and i3 will perform just as well as the i5 in SC2 and most games as well (this doesn't hold true for CPU bound games like BF4 perhaps). You're right in wanting an Intel processor though; SC2 isn't an optimized game so you need hardcore single thread performance. Haswell gives you just that. An i3 4340, which is a dual core processor at 3,6 GHz (it also has hyperthreading) should be just right for a build such as this one. You can get a slightly slower i3 (3,4 GHz) if needed due to budget constraints. You'll be wanting an H81 motherboard to go with this i3, they're the cheapest motherboards generally speaking and they get the job done. i3 is like €140 for the 3,6 GHz one, less for a slwer processor. H81 board is closer to €40-50. Go with 2x4 GB of 1600 MHz RAM at 1.5V, that should do the trick. I use pcpartpicker.com to easily find such RAM. Just get the cheapest RAM that fills those criteria. An H81 board has 2 RAM slots only (if it has more you'll be paying more as well) so 6 Gb of RAM can't be done. 4 Gb of RAM can be considered somewhat insufficient. Should be €60-70. Good case and PSU to get would be the Core 1000 for a budget case (€40) and something like an 450W PSU: XFX Core or XFX Pro (€40-50?). Be sure not to buy a shitty PSU. These two are go-to budget choices. Get a 1 TB HDD or something, SSD is obviously out of your budget and it's silly to get a 60 Gb SSD imo. That should cost maybe €50. You could arguably get a smaller HDD for a smaller price, say 500 Gb or something.. but it wouldn't be as cost-efficient (you'd be paying more money /Gb). Finally for your GPU, I might recommend the GTX 750. It's €110 and it should destroy SC2. It'll also do quite decently in other games considering the resolution you're playing at. Hell, even at 1080p this card isn't that bad (though for 1080p I think I'd rather get a 750 Ti). Get a good cooler though; ie something like an MSI Twin Frozr or Gigabyte Windforce cooler. I did a mock build with German retailers and landed at €510. I would be closer to €600 with an i5; all these parts are as low as you can go without buying crap. Try to look at romanian retailers and come back with links to stuff to order.
I write 2 Sistems man,so what should i pick ? are there both good for sc2 ? i will show you 2 Sistems :
http://www.altex.ro/sistem-it-myria-xdrivev12-intel-core-i5-3350p-3-1ghz-6gb-1tb-nvidia-geforce-gtx-650-1gb-gddr5-linux-jocuri-cadou
http://www.altex.ro/sistem-it-myria-xdrive-v13-intel-core-i5-4440-pana-la-3-3ghz-6gb-1tb-amd-radeon-r7-250-1gb-gddr5-linux
This too is around 500 euro in my country,and i can affort it,so my question is Incognoto,i will be able to play sc2 smoothly and in big battles no lag ? Thanks
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EPT
