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Ok, this has been driving me batshit crazy for the last little while, and while I thought I was ready to give up on it, I'm not so sure.
(Relevant specs: ATI Radeon 5770, Phenom X6 1055T 2.8GHz, 4MB RAM)
Now I'm aware this build is getting on in years, but it still runs all the games I play fantastically. (Read: LoL. It runs D3 and SC2 nicely as well on full settings.)
So when I play League, I use the Vsync option. Now before everyone yells at me, let me explain that it offers the smoothest gameplay experience I can get. I've recently tried removing Vsync and letting my framerate climb from a static 60 to 90-100+ (because I've started streaming at a higher bandwidth than I could before). When I turn on XSplit to stream at 30FPS, however, m in-game FPS immediately drops to below 60 (anywhere from 30-50, depending on what options I have enabled). Now normally this wouldn't be too much of an issue for me, however I've noticed when scrolling the screen anywhere at all the movement is all jerky and it really bothers me. I tried turning on the Vsync while streaming and that doesn't work; the FPS won't get back up to 60 for it to work. I then tried playing normally for a while without streaming or Vsync to see how high my regular FPS would get,and that's when I noticed that same jerkiness in screen scrolling (not as bad as at lower FPS, but still quite noticeable). I then tried enabling Triple-buffering and forced Vsync in my Catalyst settings which actually seemed to come close to getting that nice smooth scrolling while streaming, but even that falls short.
The ONLY time I get a clear, smooth scrolling effect is playing without streaming, with Vsync on at 60 FPS.
Is there anything at all I can do about this? I had a discussion with Jinglehell about it, and the consensus seemed to be without messing with GPU clocking or some shit, I'd just have to get used to the jerky scrolling if I wanted to play with Vsync off (which he recommended) to maximize my FPS. I turned on the stream for him and he said he didn't see anything while watching so apparently it's just an issue on my side, not with encoding or anything. This just doesn't make sense to me. How is it that plenty of other streamers stream at anywhere from 40-50 FPS to above 150 seemingly without any issues? Does everyone who plays the game that doesn't have Vsync on really play like this?
(I also read a bunch about screen tearing, and I'm not 100% sure that is what is occurring, since it's only noticeable when the screen is moving at high speed and I'm not getting any weird artifacts or split-screens or anything. Not that nomenclature would really make a difference here.)
If more details are required please let me know, it's just driving me crazy!!!!!
Edit: Just in case it's not quite clear, I still get jerky screen scrolling at 90+ FPS.
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You could try turning Vsync off, installing Rivatuner and using the included D3DOverrider to limit your FPS to your screen's refresh rate to see if that works better. Normally I get a laggy mouse using Vsync, with D3DOverrider everything is fine.
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do you only get the instability when you stream?
+ are you streaming via screen region or add a game?
streaming via game gave me jerky scrolling last time, switched to screen region and it's worked fine ever since.
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On December 06 2012 06:29 DJFaqU wrote:
You could try turning Vsync off, installing Rivatuner and using the included D3DOverrider to limit your FPS to your screen's refresh rate to see if that works better. Normally I get a laggy mouse using Vsync, with D3DOverrider everything is fine.
I will give this a shot, thanks. I have heard of people getting input lag with vsync and such but I haven't had that issue so I guess I'm lucky on that front.
do you only get the instability when you stream?
+ are you streaming via screen region or add a game?
streaming via game gave me jerky scrolling last time, switched to screen region and it's worked fine ever since.
No, see that's the thing. Essentially without Vsync on I always get jerky scrolling; it's just made worse when i stream.
I use screen region.
Edit: Alright, so upon using D3DOverrider, I realized it's essentially redundant to me having already enabled Vsync and Triple buffering in Catalyst. No real help there, no offense. Anyone with any ideas? I haven't really been able to find other people with this issue so maybe it's just me being really sensitive or something...?
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Nah, like I said in TS, the screen tearing is going to be largely related to your specific setup, including your monitor.
Hell, I don't even know if the downclocking the GPU until it hardware limits your FPS would have worked.
Your best bet might just be to look for Xsplit workarounds that help with the input lag, but like I said, I've never used that one.
Take it that the screen tearing is still driving you nuts?
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On December 06 2012 06:59 JingleHell wrote:
Nah, like I said in TS, the screen tearing is going to be largely related to your specific setup, including your monitor.
Hell, I don't even know if the downclocking the GPU until it hardware limits your FPS would have worked.
Your best bet might just be to look for Xsplit workarounds that help with the input lag, but like I said, I've never used that one.
Take it that the screen tearing is still driving you nuts?
Absolutely fucking crazy. No input lag issues though....
I dunno I've scoured the interwebs and I'm thinking it probably is just a performance thing that an i7 and a Radeon 6900+ would solve. Old specs are old I guess. Or I've been babied by Vsync too much (though how you people get along without that sweet sweet (slightly motion blurring) smoothness I'll never know.)
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Well, if you've got a second display at home, try swapping to it, see if it helps any with it. My best guess from what you've described sounds like minor screen tearing mostly visible in the static scenery around the edges where you don't look at it.
That sort of visual issues will sort of drag on your eyes without making itself as obvious, because something is off in your peripheral vision, but not in your primary focus.
Uhm, try grabbing your monitor model number and asking if there's any known issues there in the big monitor thread Womcubed runs.
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My secondary display is a million-year-old Princeton vl 1716. Not HD, not going to start playing on it. I really only use it for studying and having shit that I can look at like guides or music while streaming and the like.
My primary is a 23" Samsung E2320. I'll check it out.
It's 100% not just at the edges though, there is definitely some jittery character movement as well below 60 FPS. I just downloaded OBS to see if that made a difference in streaming today and it did, in that it uses a shit ton less resources than XSplit (my ingame FPS stays above 60!), but the quality of the stream is slightly worse. I dunno I may switch on and off between the two or something.
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I was just saying you can try out the other display to see if it's just something your monitor is causing, or an issue that's more persistent.
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On December 06 2012 07:28 JingleHell wrote:
I was just saying you can try out the other display to see if it's just something your monitor is causing, or an issue that's more persistent.
I'd definitely lean towards more persistent. Hard to tell though since with the smaller monitor and resolution I got up to 120 FPS.
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Screen tearing has very little to do with the monitor, assuming that the vertical refresh frequency is unchanged. All 60Hz monitors will show tears at the same frequency and the same size. Monitors with faster pixel response may have a subjectively slightly stronger effect as they're less blurry under movement.
Frame rate has a strong influence on tearing. Higher frame rates produce more tears but smaller ones, which is usually preferable. Nearly synchronised frame rates produce nearly synchronised tears, which tends to emphasize the effect. Mostly it's a personal thing though. If you're used to vsync, tearing can be extremely unpleasant. Play without it for a while and you hardly notice it.
As for the jerkiness, that's caused primarily by the capture or encoding having a load that's not spread out over time. Not much you can do about capture other than reducing resolution or trying different software and capture methods. For encoding, you can try reducing the number of cores it runs on to spread the load more evenly over time. Note that if you don't have frame-rate problems, streaming at a higher frame rate may actually be beneficial.
Setting flip queue to 0 or 1 may help, depending on what AMD are doing with their drivers these days. That prevents the GPU from storing up frames to render in the future, so you tend to get a lower frame rate but one that more closely matches the timestamps of the frames. "Reduce mouse lag" in SC2 does this, I believe.
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I believe LoL allows you to set a framerate of 50 FPS. Thats low enough to be off the tearing radar for a lot of people.
Tearing simply is. You cant get away from it. At about 120 FPS the tearing is really quick such that it will begin to look like vsynced again. But doing so while stream, generally doesnt happen.
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EPT
