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Hey, so I just got xfinity internet (25down/4up) so I need proper stuff... right?
I have 2 computers that need to be hooked up. We both want high performance, the absolute best, so we are both going wired (besides, it tends to be cheaper if you don't need high quality wireless, and one of pcs doesn't even have wireless on it, and need consistent performance).
I see tons of stuff on what you need for a wireless router, but none for wired. Is there anything I need to look for, or will the cheapest router do?
Also, I use wse, malwarebytes, ccleaner, peerblock,updates, for secuirty.
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frist of all 25mb is a shit ton of latency, are you sure you need that much for 2 comps?
if your planing to buy your own modem its gunna be expensive and its very likely you'll need a router.
usually the isp will offer a modem that will be compatible with there service for a great price and if you can hit apon the right points and speak well you might be able to get some kinda rebate or credit.
but if you are set in buying your own modem + router i dont know to much since i was able to get a free modem that was able to supply internet to up to 4 computer by wire and was also wireless.
but i did go to my locale electronic store and they had a modem for sale for $85 + i needed to get a router for atleast $25 because there modem was only for one computer and wasnt wireless
but im sure there are better products out there and for better prices
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The modem that came with your xfinity internet should also act as a router, does it not have ethernet ports on it? You shouldn't need any other router aside from that.
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Well the router I got with the xfinity doesn't have any more than a single port on it. It isn't a router. Apparently comcast stopped using modem/routers - because the xfinifty I got when I was in atlanta for 3 months had it, and then this one didn't. They told me that most areas are using this new modem that doesnt have router on it, but some areas are still using the old model.
frist of all 25mb is a shit ton of latency, are you sure you need that much for 2 comps?
Well I need the ~4 mbs for uploading, if I want to stream. And while 25mbs might be more power than I need, it's noticeably faster than standard dsl/cable, and that was the cheapest option for xfinity (fios isn't available here).
I already have a modem. I just need a router. I'm thinking of just getting the cheapest one from craigslist, but I'm not sure if I should be looking for certain features. I don't want to get a router that can't take advantage of the speed, and bottleneck it.
I understand many routers today have wireless, but I really don't need wireless. I much rather would prefer wired - you know, streaming and playing starcraft, getting the absolute most performance, but my computer also doesn't have wireless on it anyways (i mean, I think i have a wireless chip laying around, but I know that in order to get all the performance from my xfinity service, I would need a really expensive and nice wireless router).
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Okay so i looked stuff up (deep in the google), and I think I may need a gigabit WAN port?
I don't need gigabit LAN or ports, because that's just for speed between computers hooked up on the router. Don't care for that.
But apparently, I would want a gigabit WAN port, for all the internet speed to go through? So if I used a 10/100 port or whatever, that means I wouldn't get all the speed?
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No... you still have 75 Mbps available with 10/100.
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So i can just go with the cheapest possible router I can find? There's no difference between routers except intra-network speed and wireless, 2 things I don't care about, nor want? Even if I'm using 25down/5up high speed internet?
I know some routers have different security features... but we aren't idiots who are going to click shady sites, and we have peerblock/WSE/malwarebytes, etc security suites already on our PCs.
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25/5 isn't that fast... both cable and dsl are capable of this speed.
Some routers have traffic shaping, MLPP support, and so on. But it doesn't sound like you're looking for anything special so I guess you can just get whatever.
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Belial88, 25 Mbps is about 2.98 MB/s (25*1000*1000 divided by 8*1024*1024) assuming that the ISP isn't including overhead for Ethernet frame, IP datagram, or UDP/TCP datagram/packet headers. A standard "fast" Ethernet port, 100 Mbps, can handle this traffic with ease, even with the overhead.
You won't be freeing up any bottleneck by getting a "Gigabit" router; in fact, the modem you received probably only has a 100 Mbps port on it anyway (most consumer modems do). So, even if you did get a router with a 1Gbps WAN port it would auto-negotiate down to 100 Mbps "fast" Ethernet. The only benefit you would see from a Gigabit router would be that any traffic originating from AND destined to other machines on your wired LAN would travel very fast (in fact, this can be bottlenecked by the HDD speeds of the machines).
If you don't need fast transfer of data between machines on your LAN (home server, perhaps?) then even an 802.11g wireless router would allow you to nearly maximize the 25 Mbps downlink bandwidth you're paying for. (Although quoted as 54 Mbps maximum transfer speed, 802.11g bandwidth is in practice around 20-22 Mbps once factoring in re-transmissions due to multi-path fading and the additional overhead on top of standard Ethernet.)
My advice: buy a standard 100 Mbps WAN and 100 Mbps LAN router that you can install DD-WRT or Tomato-VPN firmware on. Unless you can find a good deal on a Gigabit wired router.
"Trust me, I'm an engineer." =D
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Unless you can find a good deal on a Gigabit wired router.
You say all that stuff... then say this. Why?
Like, get it as in "buy a lamborghini if someone offers you one for $10" or buy it because it's better?
you don't need fast transfer of data between machines on your LAN (home server, perhaps?) then even an 802.11g wireless router would allow you to nearly maximize the 25 Mbps downlink bandwidth you're paying for
Doesn't wireless have some issues, like with consistency, and a minor slowdown?
I'm looking for 100% performance, first off. Secondly, I just prefer wired. Everyone uses wired keyboards and mice when they are hardcore gamers right? Third, I don't even have wireless on my PC. I sort of made it that way, because of knowing the issues with wireless.
It's not an inconvenience at all, it really isn't. I don't like wireless, I don't need wireless, I can't use wireless anyways. I'd much rather used wired if it was .0000000001% better than wireless anyways. I guess you could say I'm that 'hardcore' (if you've read any of my information regarding buildings pc's, youd see that).
So you basically tell me that the cheapest router is the best router for my needs. I guess I didn't understand that the 10/100 and gigabit and all that stuff advertised on routers, is a different, and much bigger amount, than 25mbs, that internet speeds are. It wasn't the same measurement, or metric.
But then...
My advice: buy a standard 100 Mbps WAN and 100 Mbps LAN router that you can install DD-WRT or Tomato-VPN firmware on. Unless you can find a good deal on a Gigabit wired router.
I don't know what you are talking about. Why would you say buy a gigabit when you just told me it would do absolutely nothing for me. Is it not clear that I really don't need transfer between my 2 pcs, or wireless, and that I have a modem that only has a single port on it? I don't know anything about dd-wrt or tomatoes.
I'm just going to go with a cheapest router on craigslist :X
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Isn't the answer pretty simple? I'm really having a hard time just searching this, I can't get anything on it.
If I just want a wired router, and have zero intention of networking between my 2 computers hooked up on the router (I just need for 2 computers to be able to access the internet at the same time from a modem with only a single port, they don't need communication with eachother), and I'm not a internet-moron and have antivirus/anti-adware/anti-malware/peerblock, and I have 25 mbs down/4up, I can just go with the cheapest possible router right?
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So what is the question then? Buy the cheapest router (I.e. Netgear) you can find from Best Buy then. Yes it will work and you won't notice any difference between that or an Apple Airport Extreme. You aren't sharing anything between multiple devices (like 10) so performance basically doesn't matter
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On May 02 2012 14:00 Womwomwom wrote:
So what is the question then? Buy the cheapest router (I.e. Netgear) you can find from Best Buy then. Yes it will work and you won't notice any difference between that or an Apple Airport Extreme. You aren't sharing anything between multiple devices (like 10) so performance basically doesn't matter
This. It won't make a difference to you, 25 mb/s really isn't all that fast dude.
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Okay, trying not to facepalm.
On April 30 2012 14:24 LFHaunt wrote:
frist of all 25mb is a shit ton of latency, are you sure you need that much for 2 comps?
if your planing to buy your own modem its gunna be expensive and its very likely you'll need a router.
usually the isp will offer a modem that will be compatible with there service for a great price and if you can hit apon the right points and speak well you might be able to get some kinda rebate or credit.
but if you are set in buying your own modem + router i dont know to much since i was able to get a free modem that was able to supply internet to up to 4 computer by wire and was also wireless.
but i did go to my locale electronic store and they had a modem for sale for $85 + i needed to get a router for atleast $25 because there modem was only for one computer and wasnt wireless
but im sure there are better products out there and for better prices
First of all, latency is measured in miliseconds, not megabytes; and bandwidth and latency are two completely different things. Second, buying your own modem can be a good idea, depending on the ISP. Most ISPs (at least in the US) charge a monthly rental fee that means owning your own modem can actually be cheaper in the long run. Third, the modem they provide is usually the cheapest piece of crap they can get their hands on. Quality does mean something.
On May 01 2012 13:52 skyR wrote:
25/5 isn't that fast... both cable and dsl are capable of this speed.
Some routers have traffic shaping, MLPP support, and so on. But it doesn't sound like you're looking for anything special so I guess you can just get whatever.
Yes and no. If he's just looking to get internet access via ethernet on his two PCs, then yes any 10/100 router would probably be adequate. If one is looking to set up a file server or stream movies (using something like the Windows 7 Homegroup) or share files between computers, a 10/100/1000 might be worth the extra money. But otherwise, 10/100 is fine.
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All you need is a switch. Go to your local bestbuy and buy a fucking switch. This thread does not need anymore posts than this one.
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Yes and no. If he's just looking to get internet access via ethernet on his two PCs, then yes any 10/100 router would probably be adequate. If one is looking to set up a file server or stream movies (using something like the Windows 7 Homegroup) or share files between computers, a 10/100/1000 might be worth the extra money. But otherwise, 10/100 is fine.
Wait what? No, I'm not trying to share anything between the two pc's! My gf, and myself, just need internet access off the same modem! We will definitely both be streaming though - streaming sc2, streaming movies...
What do you mean? We aren't trying to share information... but we will be streaming movies. I don't know what homegroup is, and we aren't sharing information between PCs. But are you saying that a router is important if you are trying to stream stuff, like hulu? Because yea, we are watching stuff on hulu and icefilms and sc2 streams. No, we aren't like... streaming between our PCs.
I don't know how to make this simpler, but I think I'm just getting more and more confused. I don't know how to say it any simpler, with any more confidence - we aren't sharing any information (we just both need internet access, it's that simple...).
So do I need a better router to stream stuff like hulu and destiny's stream or something?
All you need is a switch. Go to your local bestbuy and buy a fucking switch. This thread does not need anymore posts than this one.
okay... so I don't know much on switches... but from what I understood, there are problems with switches.
1. Security. i don't know if it's just "as long as you aren't fucking retarded and have an antivirus, you are okay" security, or "if you only use a switch as your point of contact to the internet, you will truly be fucked no matter how savvy you are".
2. 2 computers using a switch to a modem, will split the speed. Using a switch instead of a router, you can't have 2 computers using the internet at the same time, or, they can't use it at the same speed.
If I can just use a switch, that's fine. But I really don't know much about switches, and from what little I understand, it will hurt the speed.
I just need a way for 2 computers to both be able to use the 25/5 speed at the same time. We both can't plug into the modem at the same time, so right now it's "hey it's my turn to use the internet".
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Ignore whatever you read so far. There are some scaringly wrong/misleading info in this thread and almost none of these people realize how little you know about networking.
You don't need a dedicated switch, you don't need a router with a gigabit WAN port.
You need a simple home router with a 10/100 Ethernet WAN Port. Any router will do, but to be on the safe side buy one belonging to the upper price range. You don't need to know the technical reason but read on if you really want.
An example that you might consider is: Netgear WNDR-3700 v2. You can see the revision on the bottom of the retail box. If you can't find the revision it doesn't matter, just buy that.
Another example is Netgear WNDR-3800
Another is Asus RT-N56U
these all have more features than you need but in the consumer field you can't really have *only* the features you want, they always come with something more or less (wireless, usb ports, etc.)
(Original Poster *IGNORE THIS*: for the techies, the reason i want him to buy a higher priced one is because i know for a fact most expensive Netgear ones have 2 to 4 times the RAM other routers do, and that's the only bottleneck to speak of if he torrents a lot or does anything involving a lot of concurrent sessions. There are other brands that do the same but it's not nearly as predictable. Source: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start#Netgear
If he was a business i'd suggest a Cisco device, but he's not and buying even a series 800 ISR would be foolish and crazily expensive for an individual.)
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^ So you are saying yea, any cheap router will work, the cheapest from craiglist is fine.... but I really want the safety, because antivirus/notbeingstupid/antimalware-adware isn't enough.
I mean... why is plugging directly into a modem okay, but a cheap router not? Or is plugging right into a modem without a router not safe either? I have peerblock, WSE, and malwarebytes, along with w7firewall and such. But to be safe, even as a smarter user with wse/malwarebytes/peerblock/ws7firewall, is not enough, and I shoudl just get a 'good not cheapo router'?
if you dont feel inclined to do all that yourself, just get a cheap wireless router.
Unless there was a guide that told me how to do all that, yea, i guess ill go with router instead of switch.
(Original Poster *IGNORE THIS*: for the techies, the reason i want him to buy a higher priced one is because i know for a fact most expensive Netgear ones have 2 to 4 times the RAM other routers do, and that's the only bottleneck to speak of if he torrents a lot or does anything involving a lot of concurrent sessions. There are other brands that do the same but it's not nearly as predictable. Source: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start#Netgear
I torrent, but not like a lot... i mean, like maybe 5 movies/shows/series at the most at once. I don't torrent much, nor does my gf, if that's the question (or is that alot? i mean most stuff is on hulu, the maybe 4-5 hours of content we watch at most a week is all we'd torrent and thats only if it wasnt on hulu, and most probably is).
I dont want to get bottlenecked, but our primary uses are just like, her browsing and torrenting 1 or 2 things at a time, and myself playing sc2 and streaming my play (as well as streaming gom, players, etc).
I know you said to ignore it but... really, you really dont have to worry about me being uberuser. We aren't that demanding.
It seems like you are recommending that anything will do, but what I have in security+notbeingdumb is not enough and I shoud get a router with protection.
Im really just considering getting a cheap router off craigslist, but if you told me I should get something a little more for my just wired usage, i should get one that is a little nicer for the security stuff.
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You can get some refurbished cisco routers for much cheaper, if you need it... (this thread doesn't make it seem like it is necessary)
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Why are you over complicating such a simple matter?
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Seriously. If you need real performance and stablity for like 10 devices running all at once, get $300 and buy an Apple Airport Extreme and don't look back. Anything else (needing internet for two devices is not a heavy load come on people) can be run off basically the cheapest Netgear ASDL2+ router/modem you can find.
I mean christ, you were like this when you were buying that $300 desktop system or whatever. There is a point where you have to just buy the damned thing. If it doesn't work, return it to the store. Best Buy apparently has good return policies so it should not honestly be difficult.
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This thread is hilarious.
Either buy what people tell you to buy since they want to help save money, or just buy that apple thing and know you have top notch stuff even if it does not affect you in the slightest. Also fun to read your posts with "everyone has wired stuff, right?" "Hardcore equals wired, right?". Just sounds like you do not care about the actual performance, you only care about whatever you see others do without knowing or experiencing the difference at all yourself 
"But I just want to fit in"
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On May 03 2012 15:47 skyR wrote:
Why are you over complicating such a simple matter?
It seems like everyone else is complicating it.
At first I thought like I'd need a special router to take advantage of what I thought was 'fast' internet. Apparently it's not fast. I don't know if it's not fast because everyone else is uber, or what, but I understood cable/dsl as pretty quick broadband, and xfinity/fios as super fast. So whatever, okay, now I know that it doesn't require a special router.
But then, someone says I need more memory on my router (he says to ignore it, but he also said buy an expensive router).
I say I don't need communication between the two PCs, and I don't need wireless, and I don't need fast speed between the two PCs. But all everyone is focusing on, is fast communication between the two PCs, and wireless, and the fact I need a modem (when I already have one).
So I can't really get a straight answer. At all.
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Seriously. If you need real performance and stablity for like 10 devices running all at once, get $300 and buy an Apple Airport Extreme and don't look back. Anything else (needing internet for two devices is not a heavy load come on people) can be run off basically the cheapest Netgear ASDL2+ router/modem you can find.
NO! NOT TEN DEVICES! TWO!
Okay.. so what does asdl2+ mean? Do i have to get netgear asdl2+? A cheapest possible router won't work, it has to be netgear asdl2+? I don't get it at all ;/
This thread is hilarious.
Either buy what people tell you to buy since they want to help save money, or just buy that apple thing and know you have top notch stuff even if it does not affect you in the slightest. Also fun to read your posts with "everyone has wired stuff, right?" "Hardcore equals wired, right?". Just sounds like you do not care about the actual performance, you only care about whatever you see others do without knowing or experiencing the difference at all yourself
"But I just want to fit in"
Not really...
I'm saying I don't need wireless at all.
I care about performance only, that's why I don't need wireless. I would much rather have an infinitely tiny amount of performance, than wireless or convenience.
I don't know anything about routers.
I was just going to go to craigslist and get the cheapest router possible. But apparently, no one thinks that's a good idea. I just get vague stuff.
I really can't stress enough how little I need here. I don't need wireless, I don't torrent that much stuff, at most I'd be streaming the sc2 I play, and need to be able to connect 2 computers to the internet because my modem doesn't have 2 ports. I just need a wired connecter-thing, I don't need wireless.
What's the cheapest thing I can get to do this. That's all. Everyone is makng it overly-complicated, and it seems just getting the cheapest damn thing from craigslist is not a good idea. I don't know why, but all the reasons given so far was stuff I explicitly said isn't necessary.
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if I were you I´d go to an electronics store, ask the people who work there, get a recommendation, and if you're a cheapskate go home and buy it off the internet, else just buy it there.
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I'm just going to get the cheapest router I can from craigslist. I think people are overthinking this.
I don't share anything between my pc's, I don't who does that or for what besides something really specialized, and even they did, when would a normal connection not be enough, or just transfer via the internet. And I have no idea what tomatoware is, and I don't think I need anything like that.
I was just worried because I thought I had bought some super awesome fast internet that may need a special router.
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On May 03 2012 17:06 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +Seriously. If you need real performance and stablity for like 10 devices running all at once, get $300 and buy an Apple Airport Extreme and don't look back. Anything else (needing internet for two devices is not a heavy load come on people) can be run off basically the cheapest Netgear ASDL2+ router/modem you can find. NO! NOT TEN DEVICES! TWO! Okay.. so what does asdl2+ mean? Do i have to get netgear asdl2+? A cheapest possible router won't work, it has to be netgear asdl2+? I don't get it at all ;/
YES I KNOW YOU ONLY NEED TWO DEVICES THAT DON'T NEED SHARING SO READ THE SECOND PART OF MY POST.
ASDL2+ is the standard we use in Australia. I don't know what the hell you use in the States.
You think too highly of your internet and too low of the products on the market. Anything made in the last few years will work. Are you always like this with your purchases? A router modem is cheap as chips these days and you can return it if it sucks.
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YES I KNOW YOU ONLY NEED TWO DEVICES THAT DON'T NEED SHARING SO READ THE SECOND PART OF MY POST.
ASDL2+ is the standard we use in Australia. I don't know what the hell you use in the States.
You think too highly of your internet and too low of the products on the market. Anything made in the last few years will work. Are you always like this with your purchases? A router modem is cheap as chips these days and you can return it if it sucks.
I did. First off, why did you even have that first part? Like, who seriously has 10+ devices on anything but a professional/business level or something obviously not common? I'm just a guy with a computer and plays SC2. Me knowing how to build a PC, is like pretty impressive compared to just about anyone I know.
Secondly, I have no clue what netgear asdl+ is all about. You didn't explain it at all, and I don't understand what's so bad about getting the cheapest POS off craigslist is - but apparently, you think that's not a good idea. I don't know why, but obviously you don't think it's a good idea. It shows that I'm from the US, not aus, and I stated that I'm using Xfinity in the OP. Not asdf. Xfinity.
But I get that that was a misunderstanding now. I thought that was like a technical term for something, like tomatoware, like that one guy said I *must* have.
You think too highly of your internet and too low of the products on the market. Anything made in the last few years will work. Are you always like this with your purchases? A router modem is cheap as chips these days and you can return it if it sucks.
I always considered DSL/Cable as high-speed internet, it's broadband, it's 'fast', and fairly good. Having anything more than that, like fios/xfinity, is pretty cutting edge, it has limited availability, costs more, and not many people have it.
So yea, I thought the internet I got was special. I think people here are being a bit snobby, I don't know what to say. Xfinity and Fios in the US is like very high-end internet, it's a step up from standard broadband, cable/dsl, which is way more speed for 99% of consumer users doing regular stuff like gaming, streaming, even heavy downloading.
I get it now. 25/5 isn't so high-end that I need special equipment to take advantage of it. I'll go with what I would have done if I just got cable/dsl - I'll get the cheapest thing I can get from craigslist (they are classifieds page in the US on the internet).
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Secondly, I have no clue what netgear asdl+ is all about. You didn't explain it at all, and I don't understand what's so bad about getting the cheapest POS off craigslist is - but apparently, you think that's not a good idea. I don't know why, but obviously you don't think it's a good idea. It shows that I'm from the US, not aus, and I stated that I'm using Xfinity in the OP. Not asdf. Xfinity.
ADSL2+ is the first entry in Google. According to Wikipedia, its at least 24.0 Mbit/s down and 1.3 Mbit/s up. Of course, you're probably never going to reach those speeds for lots of reasons but literally every branded (i.e. Netgear, Buffalo, Linksys) modem from a non-shady Asian store will do those speeds.
The reason I tell you to buy from Best Buy is because it may be difficult to return goods on Craigslist. Unless you are absolutely destitute (how can you afford this internet then?) and cannot afford a $50 router/router+modem (if you read the specs, they exceed your internet connection's speeds by a magnitude of like 10 times), then why would you risk DOA products or products that may not serve your purpose? You seem to worried about bottlenecking so why add additional risk of a defective/unsuitable product just to save lunch money?
Best Buy offers a 30 refund period for all nonperishable goods. I'm not American but I know people who buy monitors from Best Buy just to review them and then return it after they are done. There is basically no risk in getting some random router/router+modem in this situation. People are getting angsty because there is no reason to be so indecisive.
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switch wont work unless ur modem is a modem+router.
if you want a cheap router that will manage to hold torreneting np go for Buffalo G300NH / TP-LINK 1043ND
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Ok, I'm going to make it real simple. The only reason you would want to get something slightly more expensive like a gigabit router is IF you sometime in the future will be upgrading and wanting that performance. However I would guess that by the time that you want to upgrade there will be newer, cheaper, and better technology.
So, with that in mind, buy the cheapest router (don't get a switch unless you really know what you are doing, which by asking your question you don't) that is still from a somewhat respectable supplier (so that it doesn't break in a few months).
Edit: Both the routers posted above will do you just fine. Yes they include Wifi which you don't care about but they are still cheap and decent. You can go slightly cheaper if you prefer. D-Link, Netgear, etc.
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Pshhht. All of you are noobs. You want performance? Don't go out and buy a router, build it yourself. Get an old motherboard with any kind of processor. It just needs to be around 1Ghz or more. Get an old cpu case, some ram (even ddr1), a PSU, and make sure you have 2 network interface ports (addon card or dual mobo ports works). Then what you need to do is go here:
www.pfsense.org
Download the latest pfsense iso, either 32bit or 64 bit depending on your processor. Install it and then pm me for a full config that owns. I use this for both my home router and as a router for a 250+ man lan in Colorado Springs. The config I have allows you to download torrents/steam/blizzard/anything while being able to use VOIP such as skype and play any popular game without any lag. Zero lag, while torrenting. You want performance, this beats any router on the market that costs less than 200 USD.
Edit: any switch can increase the needed amount of ports or you can get another network interface card. A local computer parts store that sells used parts is great to get anything you don't currently have for really cheap. 10 bucks for a 10/100 intel nic anyone?
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edit fixing on my own i think
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EPT
