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5930 Posts
On March 25 2011 22:38 Belial88 wrote:
I dont know if I could recommend the i3 since it's dualcore, despite being more powerful. Given how close the x4 is and how well the x3 unlocks in most cases, which is almost the same power, and then with the price premium of the i3 vs athlon ii. that is a good deal though on the i3, I think I'm going to add a bit more info to stay relevant when the i3s and i5s drop in price later on.
It doesn't matter really, the i3 can use hyperthreading to get 4 threads going to get close enough to the 4 core Athlon, enough that its not a clear win. And even then they core difference is only really evident in productivity applications like video converting.
The kicker here is that if you turn everything down to minimum graphical settings, the i3 is so much better than the low end AMD options, you can get around 15 more FPS in SC2 apparently. Its even better than the low end Phenom IIs to be honest.
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Just thought I would report on the system I just built using the advice from this thread. Up until this week I had a 6 year old P4 computer that choked on SC2 during large battles. In 2v2s it would go to 1 fps during confrontations, no exaggeration. In the past I had upgraded everything I could without replacing the CPU.
Determined to find a new computer I had spec'd and priced out a real monster six-core computer with all new parts. The whole rig was going to cost me $1200 after shipping and tax. Then I read this thread and came to my senses. For SC2, you don't need to spend a whole lot, especially if you're upgrading and reusing some parts you already own. I realized it was ridiculous to spend $1200 just to play video games, so I set out to get a system that would play SC2 decently well and also be upgradeable into the future.
I bought from newegg.com:
AMD Athlon II X4 640 $99
ASUS M4A88T-V motherboard $99
4 gigs Kingston RAM $50
Its a 3GHz quad-core system, and its a generation or two old. But now, SC2 runs great on high settings and without lag (haven't tested yet on Ultra). This is on Win 7 32-bit. I reused my power supply (550W Antec), disk drives and an old case. I also already had a Radeon 4670 HD, but even if you don't, they are maybe $50-$70. So all told, I spent less than $275 on this upgrade, its purring happily and its done everything I've asked it to do. And I haven't even tried to overclock it.
My theory is that in 3 or 4 years I might need a new computer to play some game. I'll just spend another $275 and get an appropriate system at that time. No need for 6-core power now, most of it would be wasted.
Many thanks to Belial
gg
Mossen
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Belial:
Could you give some insight on the appropriate hardware if one intends to stream?
I'm looking to buy a new computer solely for SC2 -- the one I have is a several years old laptop and runs everything fine except for SC2 which it chokes a bit at low settings. I don't have a specific budget but I don't want to spend money I don't need to spend since I have no demands other than SC2. The only caveat I'm not so sure about is I want to be able to stream, which means it needs to maintain a good FPS at high enough graphics settings to look pretty, and my current monitor is 1900x1200 (i have another one with some wacky super-wide resolution, like 2050x1000 or something, hardly an improvement). If supporting a bigger resolution vs. smaller is solely up to the graphics card it's probably easier/cheaper to get a nicer card than pick up a new monitor. As far as streaming, you mention it in the RAM section but nowhere else so I'm curious if it puts additional strain on other components (cpu, graphics, etc)
Running at 1900x1200, I'm going to tell you right away that the GTX 460 is the minimum you need. I really don't think it's necessary to get anything more than that, but if, IF you are really caviar about spending a bit more money, I wouldn't say it would be a bad idea to get a 470 or some card that is slightly better. A 465 would be a good buy ONLY IF you know how to overclock GPUs (which is extremely easy) as from what I've read, the 460 is a better card at stock, or something along those lines, but the 465 is much better when OC'd. Don't quote me on that, I'm a bit rigid on that, but the concept is something along the lines of buy the 465 only if you know how to take advantage of overclocking, otherwise go 460 or 470. However, since this is a budget build, and since the 460 will be bottlenecked by any CPU under $120, I don't think you should go more than the 460. So this brings me to another point: if you want to get a better GPU than what I recommended, you really have to get a much, much better CPU that's way beyond the price range this guide covers and talks about, to appreciate it.
I know what I said about GPUs and performance, but note that an Athlon II will hold back a 460 just a tiny bit, so I can't recommend anything more than the 460 for an Athlon II series build.
But yea, you may need more RAM for streaming. Honestly, I don't know too much about it, and even if I did, there are others who can explain it better. I know that 4GB of RAM is more than enough for just starcraft and web browsing and general multi tasking like playing music and downloading torrents, much more than enough, and that 2GB can barely play Starcraft 2 perfectly but only when everything is closed out - but I don't know if 4GB can support streaming too. Maybe it can, maybe not - I don't have the answer to that. I wish I could say "just get 6GB of RAM instead of 4" but I can't say with any authority on the matter, as I don't know how 4GB handles streaming and don't know how much RAM is really needed for streaming at all. I imagine, and I say this as a total shot int he dark, that 4GB should handle it decently and 6GB will have you completely covered. Again, PLEASE dont take my word on this, many others actually have experience with this and cover this more indepth.
If you really want to go budget with it, i would say get the same build I suggested at top end budget (athlon II x3, 460) with 6GB. Now the catch is that the i3-2100 is a great CPU, it's actually the best CPU for the price - but it's only dual core (which is worse for multi-tasking than tri/quad/hexa - read: you need more cores for streaming than dual). The quad core sandy bridge series starts at about $180 I want to say, which is a huge price leap. Now it's funny, but a Phenom II quadcore could be great, but it's only on par with the i3 series, so it's kinda not worth the price, but on the other hand it's kinda hard to recommend just a dual core for a new build. There's also the upcoming AM3+ systems by AMD called Bulldozer, so if you want to get a 'temporary' CPU for now, and then upgrade later, you should get an AM3+ motherboard (which supports AM3 but unlike current AM3 boards, the AM3+ will support the new line of CPUs by AMD coming out. Although the release of Bulldozer may just make you get a Phenom II AM3 because the Bulldozer will probably result in a huge drop in price in current 'higher end' CPUs by AMD).
It really just depends on how much you are willing to spend, but I surmise you need to look at streaming guides, and that maybe this guide isn't for you. You could probably stream just fine on my build, with 460 and 6GB, but if you really want to do it perfectly, guaranteed, you may need more. Of course, maybe you can stream perfectly on 4GB and the 460 and AMD 450, but I don't know.
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tomatriedes: can you post the output specs of that PSU? When I searched for it, it was all in korean.
Also, you may want 4GB of RAM. I know this is a budget build, but I would say if you are building a budget system, going from 2GB to 4GB is one place you can see a noticeable difference (one of the best places to spend an extra $20, although I would say you shouldn't sacrifice your GPU or CPU for it).
I can't really say how good your choice in the 5670 is, given that I don't know what the price it's offered at, and what the price of a 460, a 4850, or 4830, or even a whole multitude of other competitive cards are. GPU choice is really dominated by price. In the US, today, the 5670 is a horrible buy. But it may be a great buy if it's priced competitively to those other cards I mentioned. I will tell you that it's odd you are getting such a relatively weak card while a relatively stronger system in total. Now, if anything, you should spend money on a CPU vs a GPU, so I think there's nothing wrong with that. But I'm just pointing out that the 5670 won't play on Ultra on higher resolutions, if not medium resolutions, as it doesn't really seem you have that tight of a budget.
The motherboard you chose is of great quality, but again, I don't know if it's a great buy since you don't list prices. You may be able to find boards just as good, for cheaper. And also, you only need such a board if you plan to do a lot of overclocking. If you aren't overclocking, you really reduce a lot of potential problems.
As for your CPU choice, on newegg the 965 is faster at stock but the same price. I don't know how prices work for you though. Also note, that while the 965 may be faster at stock, the 955 might overclock better. I'm not exactly sure since this involves in-depth research and forum lurking to see what others have gotten on these chips and others you may be considering getting to overclock, but my point is that certain chips overclock better than others, so if you are buying the 955 because you've read that it overclocks better than the 965, that would make sense - since you are getting that motherboard, I assume you like to overclock and you are okay with such a risk. of course, maybe the 965 is just more expensive to you. Of course, there's also the 925 chip, you should look and see how well they generally overclock if you are willing to get a slower stock chip for something that is known to overclock well. Phenoms seem to overclock much better in general than Athlons though, but they run much hotter because of the extra L3 cache (but it seems with your choice of PSU and Motherboard you have that covered).
In fact, I wouldn't have gotten the 450 if I knew more. The 450 is relatively new, and is only recently a lot of people buying it due to price drops. However, it unlocks great but doesn't overclock well, so if I knew that I probably wouldve gone for a 440 or 445, which overclock much better in general. It is risky, but given they are also cheaper, it isn't that bad a risk. However, there wasn't really any way to know this as people just now are starting to post their (somewhat dissapointing) overclock results on the 450 (although, again, it unlocks almost guaranteed, although I have read a few reports of people unable to unlock, who actually almost always hit 4ghz). I understand they don't unlock as 'guaranteed' as the 450 though, but I think I would prefer higher clock speed to extra core due to SC2 not really appreciating the leap from tri to quad as much as it appreciates dual to tri.
And do you really need an enitre terabyte of data? Obviously you aren't that constrained by budget and this may not be the best guide for you, but I would recommend you get a faster HDD vs a slower one with more space, but only if you dont need that much space. If you really need 1TB, then go for it. 32m cache means that that HDD is particularly fast, actually. You clearly picked out a good HDD, I'm just a bit worried about the size and if that's really necessary. You could also even just buy a super fast 64mb cache HDD to hold your OS and a few games and programs that's like under 200GB, and then use an old HDD or a really slow but big one to hold documents and pictures that don't benefit as much from faster read/write speeds.
Coriolis, if you don't mind me asking, how well does your 4830 do? If I could make the guide a little more accurate, that would be great.
Thanks i was prolly going to use the "Athlon II X3 450"
but, my current comp runs SC2 fine, was just going to build anther just to have in hopes i could stream
but my connection is so bad ill prolly just keep my current comp
I believe you can actually buy some sort of card to help those speeds on your PC. This isn't something I know much of, Destiny was just talking about it on his stream is all. Maybe something you want to look in to.
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It doesn't matter really, the i3 can use hyperthreading to get 4 threads going to get close enough to the 4 core Athlon, enough that its not a clear win. And even then they core difference is only really evident in productivity applications like video converting.
The kicker here is that if you turn everything down to minimum graphical settings, the i3 is so much better than the low end AMD options, you can get around 15 more FPS in SC2 apparently. Its even better than the low end Phenom IIs to be honest.
There's no doubt the i3-2100 is better than the Athlon and lower end Phenom series. It's very arguable, I'm really considering expanding the CPU section to be more technical (explain things like core speed, core count, threading, architecture, etc, so people know how to identify how good a CPU is both in general and in SC2 performance). Also with it's inevitable price drop, I can't imagine the Athlon II being the best buy for an SC2 computer forever. I guess since SC2 is optimized for dualcore and for Intel chips, it is definately relevant, and so it may simply be true that the i3-2100 is the best CPU for a purely starcraft 2 PC, and the athlon just a better buy for a general build that also plays SC2. I feel the athlon II is more future proof, but we already know that is a dumb concept, especially for a budget builder.
The kicker here is that if you turn everything down to minimum graphical settings, the i3 is so much better than the low end AMD options, you can get around 15 more FPS in SC2 apparently. Its even better than the low end Phenom IIs to be honest.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but as long as you get 60FPS, anything more is unnecessary - not as in "oh you can't really tell if ambient occlusion is off or on unless studying a side by side picture" but as in your monitor and even the human eye can notice the difference between 58fps and 60fps, if maybe imperceptible, but cannot differentiate 60fps and 9000fps.
I realized it was ridiculous to spend $1200 just to play video games, so I set out to get a system that would play SC2 decently well and also be upgradeable into the future.
it's funny you say that, because I was kicking myself when I realized that Starcraft 2 was worth, straight up, $350, because I already have a Droid 2 phone that is faster than many netbooks and I pretty much use exactly as a laptop, not to mention I have a netbook too, both of which can surf and write documents and everything BUT game, perfectly fast and fine. This is coming from someone who got a droid 2/smartphone because I never upgraded in over 10 years and had so much credit on my account I got it for free (I'm sure it wouldn't surprise anyone I'm a big proponent of just use the cheapest phone possible, but with the new smartphones aka droids they are literally replacements for laptops, I sent my laptop back to america when I was overseas because my droid just did everything just fine), and literally, for 2 weeks until my paycheck came, had $424 on my credit card and the PC cost was 420 with shipping and no rebates yet and so I couldn't eat or buy gas with the more I spent lol.
That is probably why I was so intent on researching everything and learning so much and making sure I bought the perfect setup (looking back on it, I probably would've gone with the 4850 but I can't complain about having a stronger, better 460). Especially since I have lots of money now 
Determined to find a new computer I had spec'd and priced out a real monster six-core computer with all new parts. The whole rig was going to cost me $1200 after shipping and tax. Then I read this thread and came to my senses. For SC2, you don't need to spend a whole lot, especially if you're upgrading and reusing some parts you already own. I realized it was ridiculous to spend $1200 just to play video games, so I set out to get a system that would play SC2 decently well and also be upgradeable into the future.
I bought from newegg.com:
AMD Athlon II X4 640 $99
ASUS M4A88T-V motherboard $99
4 gigs Kingston RAM $50
Its a 3GHz quad-core system, and its a generation or two old. But now, SC2 runs great on high settings and without lag (haven't tested yet on Ultra). This is on Win 7 32-bit. I reused my power supply (550W Antec), disk drives and an old case. I also already had a Radeon 4670 HD, but even if you don't, they are maybe $50-$70. So all told, I spent less than $275 on this upgrade, its purring happily and its done everything I've asked it to do. And I haven't even tried to overclock it.
My theory is that in 3 or 4 years I might need a new computer to play some game. I'll just spend another $275 and get an appropriate system at that time. No need for 6-core power now, most of it would be wasted.
Many thanks to Belial
gg
Mossen
I'm really glad this guide has been more than theorycraft and just brought a bunch of people to yell at me lol. I just figured I should give back, because I really felt bad being one of the many people who make a new thread saying "help me with my build". Awesome, your motherboard is great you should have no problem overclocking like woah. I'm very happy for you!
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On March 26 2011 18:01 Belial88 wrote: tomatriedes: can you post the output specs of that PSU? When I searched for it, it was all in korean. Also, you may want 4GB of RAM. I know this is a budget build, but I would say if you are building a budget system, going from 2GB to 4GB is one place you can see a noticeable difference (one of the best places to spend an extra $20, although I would say you shouldn't sacrifice your GPU or CPU for it). I can't really say how good your choice in the 5670 is, given that I don't know what the price it's offered at, and what the price of a 460, a 4850, or 4830, or even a whole multitude of other competitive cards are. GPU choice is really dominated by price. In the US, today, the 5670 is a horrible buy. But it may be a great buy if it's priced competitively to those other cards I mentioned. I will tell you that it's odd you are getting such a relatively weak card while a relatively stronger system in total. Now, if anything, you should spend money on a CPU vs a GPU, so I think there's nothing wrong with that. But I'm just pointing out that the 5670 won't play on Ultra on higher resolutions, if not medium resolutions, as it doesn't really seem you have that tight of a budget. The motherboard you chose is of great quality, but again, I don't know if it's a great buy since you don't list prices. You may be able to find boards just as good, for cheaper. And also, you only need such a board if you plan to do a lot of overclocking. If you aren't overclocking, you really reduce a lot of potential problems. As for your CPU choice, on newegg the 965 is faster at stock but the same price. I don't know how prices work for you though. Also note, that while the 965 may be faster at stock, the 955 might overclock better. I really have no clue, but my point is that certain chips overclock better than others, so if you are buying the 955 because you've read that it overclocks better than the 965, that would make sense - since you are getting that motherboard, I assume you like to overclock and you are okay with such a risk. of course, maybe the 965 is just more expensive to you. Of course, there's also the 925 chip, you should look and see how well they generally overclock if you are willing to get a slower stock chip for something that is known to overclock well. Phenoms seem to overclock much better in general than Athlons though, but they run much hotter because of the extra L3 cache (but it seems with your choice of PSU and Motherboard you have that covered). And do you really need an enitre terabyte of data? Obviously you aren't that constrained by budget and this may not be the best guide for you, but I would recommend you get a faster HDD vs a slower one with more space, but only if you dont need that much space. If you really need 1TB, then go for it. 32m cache means that that HDD is particularly fast, actually. You clearly picked out a good HDD, I'm just a bit worried about the size and if that's really necessary. You could also even just buy a super fast 64mb cache HDD to hold your OS and a few games and programs that's like under 200GB, and then use an old HDD or a really slow but big one to hold documents and pictures that don't benefit as much from faster read/write speeds. Coriolis, if you don't mind me asking, how well does your 4830 do? If I could make the guide a little more accurate, that would be great. Show nested quote +Thanks i was prolly going to use the "Athlon II X3 450"
but, my current comp runs SC2 fine, was just going to build anther just to have in hopes i could stream
but my connection is so bad ill prolly just keep my current comp I believe you can actually buy some sort of card to help those speeds on your PC. This isn't something I know much of, Destiny was just talking about it on his stream is all. Maybe something you want to look in to.
I didn't choose the parts myself, so I don't know the individual prices. It's a 'gaming computer' package on this website:
http://pcshop.danawa.com/DanawaPCBlog/main/representProductSeq/2440
Apparently it's meant to be one of the best sites for buying a computer over here. I also think a terabyte HD would be way too much for what I need. Maybe I'll ask if they can change out the GPU for one you mentioned, put a smaller HD in and an extra 2GBs of ram. Anyway I'm probably in the wrong thread here as I'm not planning to build myself, but thanks for the advice.
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5930 Posts
Phenom II 965 is just pretty much a better binned Phenom II 955. That means the 965 might reach a theoretically better overclock than the 955 but who gives a shit its not worth the extra cost for a small frequency bump and for the possibly better overclock.
Also, hard drive cache isn't really something to worry about so long the drive was designed within the last year. What cache means to the consumer is that it can make up for less efficient controllers and worse platter density - which is why with storage prices as low as they are, you should buy high space drives from specific companies because they tend to pack denser platters. Its why Samsung Spinpoints F3s are suggested all the time everywhere because its high platter density and price easily makes up for the fact it only has 32mb cache.
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I should mention in my guide that Caviar Green isn't good.
Anyways this is a guide to build a PC, not really for buying a pre-built. Building a PC is 100% about the price of [i]this]/i] item vs the price of that item. All you can really take from this guide is:
A) How good are the parts selected
B) How much of a price premium you are paying
It seems you are okay with the price premium, and I'm sure enough people have said to you, and you've read enough of, comments about how buying a pre-built is retarded because building a PC is extremely easy (99% of the difficulty, and my difficulty, was just the agonizing of the value of getting one part over another, even though both parts were perfectly good and okay) and way cheaper. But yea, go for 4GB on that buld. Also, you could simply just buy that build, sell the 5670, and buy a GTX 460 graphics card for cheap for yourself. I can't read the prices, but for example I know Dell, Alienware, and Mac charge like $200 for a GPU upgrade, when the GPU is only worth like $20 more or something - such a rip off, that in fact you are better off buying the crap GPU, selling it, and then replacing it on your own.
Also, I don't know if that's the best put together prebuilt. If you really must go with such a prebuilt, you should just buy it with the lower 2GB and 5670, and then buy 2GB more of the identical RAM yourself and stick it in (its as easy as just sticking it into the obvious slots, its literally 'plug and play') and get the 5670 and then buy a 460 on your own.
But just because its the best site for building a computer doesn't mean its good. You could save a lot of money just building it youself, it's extremely easy. I doubt you can ask for a smaller HDD. But assuming you can't build it, yea just get the 2gb and 5670, then add in more ram and a better GPU (although 5670 isn't horrible, its actually a pretty good budget card, its just not THE best value at that price range and not THE best performance at the price range either, its just a very solid card that's 2nd best performance at 2nd best price).
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the hardest part of building a pc is getting the thermal grease off your elbow
:C
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AMAZING guide, Belial!! Absolutely love it... Thanks so much for your hard work...
I built a PC about 8 months ago, still loving it... Great experience too
Your guide makes me want to build another one, lol!!!
>Oh, actually, the only problem I have had is that about once every 10 days or so, the PC would blue-screen (fatal error, memory dump, etc.) in the middle of a random application... Do you think this is a RAM issue, HD issue, or power issue?
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^ no idea. Get a program called "BlueScreenView" and then look up the error code. If you overclocked at all, that would be a start of the problem. Your problem could be so many things, you really aren't providing enough details and this isn't the thread for it tbh :O
Also, hard drive cache isn't really something to worry about so long the drive was designed within the last year. What cache means to the consumer is that it can make up for less efficient controllers and worse platter density - which is why with storage prices as low as they are, you should buy high space drives from specific companies because they tend to pack denser platters. Its why Samsung Spinpoints F3s are suggested all the time everywhere because its high platter density and price easily makes up for the fact it only has 32mb cache.
Ah yea forgot about platter count and density. I'll add that to the guide sometime.
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On March 26 2011 20:43 Belial88 wrote:^ no idea. Get a program called "BlueScreenView" and then look up the error code. If you overclocked at all, that would be a start of the problem. Your problem could be so many things, you really aren't providing enough details and this isn't the thread for it tbh :O Show nested quote +Also, hard drive cache isn't really something to worry about so long the drive was designed within the last year. What cache means to the consumer is that it can make up for less efficient controllers and worse platter density - which is why with storage prices as low as they are, you should buy high space drives from specific companies because they tend to pack denser platters. Its why Samsung Spinpoints F3s are suggested all the time everywhere because its high platter density and price easily makes up for the fact it only has 32mb cache. Ah yea forgot about platter count and density. I'll add that to the guide sometime.
Thanks for quick reply... Will try out the program! I know what I posted was vague but I don't have many details myself lol
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On March 26 2011 17:47 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +Belial:
Could you give some insight on the appropriate hardware if one intends to stream?
I'm looking to buy a new computer solely for SC2 -- the one I have is a several years old laptop and runs everything fine except for SC2 which it chokes a bit at low settings. I don't have a specific budget but I don't want to spend money I don't need to spend since I have no demands other than SC2. The only caveat I'm not so sure about is I want to be able to stream, which means it needs to maintain a good FPS at high enough graphics settings to look pretty, and my current monitor is 1900x1200 (i have another one with some wacky super-wide resolution, like 2050x1000 or something, hardly an improvement). If supporting a bigger resolution vs. smaller is solely up to the graphics card it's probably easier/cheaper to get a nicer card than pick up a new monitor. As far as streaming, you mention it in the RAM section but nowhere else so I'm curious if it puts additional strain on other components (cpu, graphics, etc) Running at 1900x1200, I'm going to tell you right away that the GTX 460 is the minimum you need. I really don't think it's necessary to get anything more than that, but if, IF you are really caviar about spending a bit more money, I wouldn't say it would be a bad idea to get a 470 or some card that is slightly better. A 465 would be a good buy ONLY IF you know how to overclock GPUs (which is extremely easy) as from what I've read, the 460 is a better card at stock, or something along those lines, but the 465 is much better when OC'd. Don't quote me on that, I'm a bit rigid on that, but the concept is something along the lines of buy the 465 only if you know how to take advantage of overclocking, otherwise go 460 or 470. However, since this is a budget build, and since the 460 will be bottlenecked by any CPU under $120, I don't think you should go more than the 460. So this brings me to another point: if you want to get a better GPU than what I recommended, you really have to get a much, much better CPU that's way beyond the price range this guide covers and talks about, to appreciate it. I know what I said about GPUs and performance, but note that an Athlon II will hold back a 460 just a tiny bit, so I can't recommend anything more than the 460 for an Athlon II series build. But yea, you may need more RAM for streaming. Honestly, I don't know too much about it, and even if I did, there are others who can explain it better. I know that 4GB of RAM is more than enough for just starcraft and web browsing and general multi tasking like playing music and downloading torrents, much more than enough, and that 2GB can barely play Starcraft 2 perfectly but only when everything is closed out - but I don't know if 4GB can support streaming too. Maybe it can, maybe not - I don't have the answer to that. I wish I could say "just get 6GB of RAM instead of 4" but I can't say with any authority on the matter, as I don't know how 4GB handles streaming and don't know how much RAM is really needed for streaming at all. I imagine, and I say this as a total shot int he dark, that 4GB should handle it decently and 6GB will have you completely covered. Again, PLEASE dont take my word on this, many others actually have experience with this and cover this more indepth. If you really want to go budget with it, i would say get the same build I suggested at top end budget (athlon II x3, 460) with 6GB. Now the catch is that the i3-2100 is a great CPU, it's actually the best CPU for the price - but it's only dual core (which is worse for multi-tasking than tri/quad/hexa - read: you need more cores for streaming than dual). The quad core sandy bridge series starts at about $180 I want to say, which is a huge price leap. Now it's funny, but a Phenom II quadcore could be great, but it's only on par with the i3 series, so it's kinda not worth the price, but on the other hand it's kinda hard to recommend just a dual core for a new build. There's also the upcoming AM3+ systems by AMD called Bulldozer, so if you want to get a 'temporary' CPU for now, and then upgrade later, you should get an AM3+ motherboard (which supports AM3 but unlike current AM3 boards, the AM3+ will support the new line of CPUs by AMD coming out. Although the release of Bulldozer may just make you get a Phenom II AM3 because the Bulldozer will probably result in a huge drop in price in current 'higher end' CPUs by AMD). It really just depends on how much you are willing to spend, but I surmise you need to look at streaming guides, and that maybe this guide isn't for you. You could probably stream just fine on my build, with 460 and 6GB, but if you really want to do it perfectly, guaranteed, you may need more. Of course, maybe you can stream perfectly on 4GB and the 460 and AMD 450, but I don't know.
Will check out the streaming guides. I am willing to get a new monitor to play SC if it's more prudent, but the fact is I have a 1920x1200 monitor and I'm assuming the step up in gfx card is probably a better idea than another monitor.
I don't care about being super frugal since I have kind of steep demands, I just don't have any high tech demands other than wanting to stream SC2 so I don't want to buy anything I don't need. I'm also buying pretty much as soon as I sort out what it is I have to get. If I have to go with like an i3 or i5 so be it...
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Hey, I've got two specific questions for you. The first is about the motherboard I've got here:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=23088808
I tried to follow the information you wrote here but I'd like some confirmation that I did a good job picking it out.
The second is about the video card. Do you think 60 dollars is worth the longevity difference between a GTX 560 and a GTX 460?
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The second is about the video card. Do you think 60 dollars is worth the longevity difference between a GTX 560 and a GTX 460?
Depends on a few things. First, what is the GPU for? I know longevity is kinda vague, but are you referring to maybe SC2 expansions and D3, or just whatever comes out in the future? Secondly, what kind of CPU do you have? If you're CPU isn't strong enough, then no reason to.
Third, no, not really. The GTX 460 is so cheap at ~$120 now (can you really find a 560 for only $180?), then when it gets outdated you can upgrade very easily since you didn't spend much in the first place. The 460 is such a strong card, and by the time you start to notice it isn't strong enough, there will be much better cards or better current cards will be really cheap. Also, no point in getting better than the 460 if you CPU can't appreciate it. So it really depends on what you need the GPU for and what your CPU is. I'll look at the mobo later.
edit: this is just my opinion, others may argue different but im sure theyd agree that you shouldnt buy a GPU just because its stronger, you should buy what you need. If its just SC2, you dont need a 560 (unless you want absolute perfect performance at max resolution in insane custom games and have a high end CPU to go with it?).
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Yeah, I'm thinking about Skyrim and other games in the future. Even though SC2 will probably get more time than anything else, I'd still like to not have to worry about upgrading in the future.
Oh, I just realized I was looking at only 1gb versions of the 460 and it is about 140. Newegg has a 560 for about 200 after a mail-in rebate. I am going for an i5 2400 for the processor; so, I think it should be strong enough. What I was thinking is that 60 dollars now would be less than whatever I would pay to upgrade later, I just didn't know if the 560 would age considerably better or not. Plus, the one I have picked out looks wicked sweet, haha, as little as that matters. Sounds like switching down to the 460 might just be the best idea, though.
Do you have any thoughts on this motherboard?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135279
99 dollars. There are only 5 chokes but then I think it has solid capacitors, the mosfets look like they have 4 legs, there's an 8-pin power connector and a heatsink. I can't seem to find much information through Google about the board; so, I thought I would ask about it.
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^ you always have to 'worry' about upgrading in the future, since everything gets outdated. If you really want to be future proof, you just shouldnt ever buy a PC because your waiting for the next thing to come out which will either be awesome itself or drop the prices of everything else. Buying PC parts is not about the part itself, its about how the value compares.
So know what you need, and buy off that. The athlon II x2 series regor is only $60, and the X3 is only $70-80. That really isn't that much money, and given it'll last at least a year for your current game obsession, just buy that 'chump change' CPU and then upgrade when you need to.
Not sure what skyrim is though. Sounds like a sexual act.
Oh, I just realized I was looking at only 1gb versions of the 460 and it is about 140. Newegg has a 560 for about 200 after a mail-in rebate. I am going for an i5 2400 for the processor; so, I think it should be strong enough. What I was thinking is that 60 dollars now would be less than whatever I would pay to upgrade later, I just didn't know if the 560 would age considerably better or not. Plus, the one I have picked out looks wicked sweet, haha, as little as that matters. Sounds like switching down to the 460 might just be the best idea, though.
Don't get the 1GB version. Starcraft 2 only appreciates the 716mb except in single player. VRAM is usually about textures, and its a matter of having enough or not, just like RAM. Just see what the game quality of games your playing needs in VRAM, and buy accordingly. I mean if you need 1GB, go for it, but you see how you can just go "oh its only $20 to go for the 1GB version" and then "oh its only $20 more to go for the high quality premium name-brand EVGA version" then "oh its only $20 from that to go for the 560" then "oh its only $20 to go for SLI capable 560". It'll drive you crazy, and when you get down to it, buying the best 'value' of PC parts actually is extremely expensive, that's how they make their money. Buy what you need, not what is a good value, and you'll save a shitton of money when you realize that software is about 2 years behind hardware. In 2 years, you can buy a $80 GPU that'll play everything perfectly, if your current one can't.
And a 560 @ $200 is almost twice the price of the 460 which you can find for $126, and I've seen it under $100 in promotions that occur every once in a while, you just have to look for them (the same newegg Galaxy 460 @ $145 used to be $85!!! fucking I waited a day too late thats why i didnt get it T_T ). Then, also bear in mind that A) Your CPU will be limit your GPU unless your buying a very expensive, over $150 CPU, in which case this guide isn't for you and you should be looking at intel sandy bridge, which is something I don't mention in this guide because of the price and how unnecessary it is and B) a 460 will play SC2 just as good as a 560 except in extremely rare instances of custom games at max resolution PROVIDED your CPU isn't bottlenecking - that is, it'll play it at over 50 FPS at max settings. You really need to get at least an i5 or i7 even to appreciate a 560, which is just really ridiculous in price and performance.
If you are playing starcraft 2 ladder single player, or even 2v2, at max resolution and graphics, the Athlon II X3 and 4850 will play everything at the best performance, just as good as an i7 and 560 because they play it perfectly well (well, any minor imperceptible boost in SC2 performance can be compensated with going athlon X4 and gtx 460).
The motherboard looks good but i can't say how well the price compares to other motherboards. If that's the cheapest quality board you can find though, go for it. It looks good. Although I haven't heard of that brand too much, you should do some research in that brand and how others fared with that model.
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A gtx 560 is like a 470with better cooling. and for gaming it would be better to get an i3 2100 over similarly priced amd models.
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Skyrim's cross-platform, which means even the PC version should run on 4-5 year old hardware. Anything from this thread will cover you for at least minimum on it.
That said, the 768MB 460 is actually slower than the 1GB too, not just less VRAM.
It actually loses memory bandwidth to the 1GB. For SC2, not really relevant, or for anything cross-platform, but if you're looking at any PC exclusives, the 1GB will definitely get a bit more staying power.
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oh taking a look at skyrims specs, recommending a 9800GTX, yea, a 4850 will be more than powerful to accomplish that game. You should probably just buy the 4850 more than anything, I'm sitting here saying that I shouldn't have bought the 460, I shouldve went with the 4850 and been able to eat for a week lol.
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EPT
