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i3-3225 will stream on low but a better bet for a budget, streaming capable CPU is the phenom x4 because of it's 4 logical cores and ability to overclock. Hyperthreading is not really great for streaming, it's appreciated but it's not 'great' (hyperthreading isn't really 'great' for anything, it's just better than nothing in some cases).
On April 23 2013 23:03 mav451 wrote:
Yeah so Haswell pricing update:
$327 for i7-4770K and $227 for the i5-4670K, so not looking all that different from IvyB launch pricing.
Real question is the difference in cost at Microcenter - will the i7 only be $40 more than the i5 K model? What concerns me is if the release of the PS4/720 indicate a shift into dramatically better threaded games that would justify the slight expense of buying an i7, especially for those that can afford it heh.
Piledriver owners usually reference PCGHW's numbers for Crysis 3 (despite it being tested at an extremely low-res of 720p).
Assuming MC keeps the diff at only $40 (less than 2hrs worth of work), it is something I'm considering :p
ps4/720 isn't going to create more multi-threaded games. The ps3 right now is '6-core' in the same sense the ps4/720 is '8-core', you don't see 6 threaded games at all. And secondly, it's not a true 8-core, it's not even a fake 8-core like an 8350/i7. It's an 8 cell core, which is more in line with saying the 3570k is an 8 core because of the pci express controller, IMC, igpu, system agent...
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
i3-3225 will stream on low
You say this a lot, but you are either miscommunicating or totally wrong here: Holding FPS with increased settings in sc2 is down to GPU, not CPU
Aside from 3 cores benching better than 2 in sc2 (at least on an athlon II - that's the only data i saw for 2 vs 3/4 cores in sc2) which is another factor:
2 cores compromise the resolution, fps you can encode at (or presets if you want to push that..) and not actually the FPS that the game runs at, really.
I mean - changing the game from low to extreme settings - you have the same minimum FPS on both with an at all decent GPU (i saw the same minimum +- only 2-3, which is completely within margin for error - on only a gtx260 for 1920x1080)
Being on an i3 won't magically make Extreme settings run at lower minimums compared to low.
It's just your experience is worse, on any settings.
If sc2 uses 1.5 cores - you can say that an i3 has 0.5 cores free and i5 has 2.5 cores free - there you have night and day difference in the resolution, fps you can push on a stream before you try to eat the resources sc2 requires to not compromise running - after it loses the FPS it will always lose, just from running the software, even without any measurable CPU load from other software
It's hard to be sure of any trends in sc2 or in streaming software, but these are the impressions i got - A ton of people say Extreme runs worse, of they can stream medium but not extreme - for example - but they compare FPS in the early-midgame - or even test KIND OF RIGHT - in AVERAGE FPS IN A LATEGAME FIGHT - but it's still wrong, it's not minimums, which i think is the ultimate judge of performance, because sc2 does not suddenly drop to minimum's - the minimum in sc2 is usually held for 3-10 seconds, in the heat of the fight, it's not an abnormal dip. FPS rises faster in some cases than others, which inflates your endgame fight AVERAGES, but not minimums
Sorry lots of caps near the end
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Playstation 4 and 720 are both x86 architecture so the reasoning is that this will make games easier to port.
Playstation 4 is suppose to use a custom APU solution featuring eight Jaguar cores so not sure what the fuck you talking about.
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sorry, i meant lower streaming settings, not graphical settings. You are going to struggle to stream on HD@45fps+, but you can do that just fine on a phenom x4. Graphics has nothing to do with streaming, that's all the GPU.
The PS4/jaguar 8 cell core is not a true 8 core like an i5 is a true quadcore, saying that games of the future are going to be more multi-threaded because of consoles is not accurate. We certainly didn't see hexacore games become the rage with ps3 being a 6 cell core and 360 being 6core. It's an apples to oranges comparison and misleading to say that new gen consoles will be '8 core'. Yes, they will have 8 cell cores, but it's not quite the same thing as the i5 having 4 cores.
Not to mention the clock speed of said cores is something like 1.6ghz-2.5ghz? I don't recall exactly what the speed was, but it's incredibly slow. They aren't going to outperform even a stock i5-3570.
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Hi all. I purchased this card to spruce my rig up. I installed it right after I got it, and it has been 99% awesome. However, I've noticed some kind of artifact on perhaps 4 instances. It did not persist or really interfere with my gaming experience. I've read some posts that suggest it is related to the game being played (Dota2). I want try to figure out if it is defective before the 30 day mark has passed, as after that I cannot return it. How should I go about testing the card to see if it is working properly?
Side note: It was kind of annoying trying to find the right driver...What should I be using/where should I go? The AATI website was not the most straight forward in terms of getting me the right driver.
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Eh you can return it if it's faulty during the warranty period. The 30 day return period should be only in the case that you don't feel like getting the card after all.
Wasn't straight forward? You just get the latest ones .-.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Playstation 4 is suppose to use a custom APU solution featuring eight Jaguar cores so not sure what the fuck you talking about.
I don't either and said that a couple times, Jaguar did not (at least from quick checking) seem to be weird with cores like that, or a ton of shared resources maybe.. I seem to remember it being in some kind of dual core config (bobcat) but not much about the architecture, i don't think it's even worse than bulldozer implementation of cores, maybe wrong though. I lack information.
The "fuck" was really unnecessary.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
It did not persist or really interfere with my gaming experience. I've read some posts that suggest it is related to the game being played (Dota2). I want try to figure out if it is defective before the 30 day mark has passed, as after that I cannot return it. How should I go about testing the card to see if it is working properly?
Get a GPU stress test (like furmark), should be pretty straightforward - run, check for artifacts, if you want even undervolt slightly and see how far you have to push it before fails or artifacts, etc. That should be pretty much it (i never did it before though, just intuition)
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Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 were on completely different architectures so obviously we didn't see multi-threaded games ported to the PC. And the 360 had three cores.. not six.
I'm not sure where you get this idea of cell cores from since Playstation 4 is not using a Cell successor.
Jaguar is the successor to Bobcat, intended for tablets so it's going to be weaker than Bulldozer since it's focused on low power consumption.
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On April 24 2013 03:51 Shikyo wrote:
Eh you can return it if it's faulty during the warranty period. The 30 day return period should be only in the case that you don't feel like getting the card after all.
Wasn't straight forward? You just get the latest ones .-.
The driver it recommended was from like 2010...I'll try again i guess.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
The driver it recommended was from like 2010...I'll try again i guess.
Yea.. don't do that. There's a new driver at least every couple months or something
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On April 23 2013 23:03 mav451 wrote:
Yeah so Haswell pricing update:
$327 for i7-4770K and $227 for the i5-4670K, so not looking all that different from IvyB launch pricing.
Real question is the difference in cost at Microcenter - will the i7 only be $40 more than the i5 K model? What concerns me is if the release of the PS4/720 indicate a shift into dramatically better threaded games that would justify the slight expense of buying an i7, especially for those that can afford it heh.
Piledriver owners usually reference PCGHW's numbers for Crysis 3 (despite it being tested at an extremely low-res of 720p).
Assuming MC keeps the diff at only $40 (less than 2hrs worth of work), it is something I'm considering :p
One thing I'm not sure if people have mentioned is that Haswell is apparently bringing Sandy Bridge-E-style multiplier straps.
Instead of just a multiplier based on 100 MHz +/- a little bit, there are options of 125 MHz and 166 MHz as well.
So non-K processors could be overclocked like the i7-3820 can now? These have multiplier caps, but you can just set the multiplier lower than stock for something like 28 x 166 MHz instead of 34 x 100 MHz, right?
That is, unless there's some arbitrary restriction enforced.
On April 24 2013 03:02 Belial88 wrote:
ps4/720 isn't going to create more multi-threaded games. The ps3 right now is '6-core' in the same sense the ps4/720 is '8-core', you don't see 6 threaded games at all. And secondly, it's not a true 8-core, it's not even a fake 8-core like an 8350/i7. It's an 8 cell core, which is more in line with saying the 3570k is an 8 core because of the pci express controller, IMC, igpu, system agent...
I kind of agree with your assessment at least for the near term (just because it will take time, and lots of things aren't easily parallelized or otherwise have heavy dependencies), but not with the reasoning.
PS3 architecture is heterogeneous, a pain in the ass, etc., with one main PPE core and several different SPEs. Also, lots of games are multiplatform and need to also run fine on the 360's tri-core Xenon. With next generation, we're talking about 8 equal (and really slow, as they're Bobcat) x86 cores. Or x64, if you please. It's not Cell architecture like PS3.
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Oh I'm well aware of the changes in Haswell from IvyB :p
I've said in other previous posts about how the dumbed down the Intel OCing experience has become since the end of Core2 - really has made things rather boring. Also the 780 rumor mill has me pretty excited on the GPU front, but I'm still debating on jumping to a used 680 if the pricing isn't competitive $555+ vs say flat $499. I'm seeing used 680's in the $350-380 range, but obv could drop further once the 700-series is hard launched.
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There's some really good deals going on for all you system builders. $82 840 (at that price it's great considering every other ssd has gone up in price), and newegg has a ton of great specials. There's the 840 pro 128gb is $115 which is an insanely good price for it.
There's a rosewill ranger right now for $19, it's not great but for $19 that's a good price on a cheapo case, i know you wanted that waffling1. There's also the coolermaster elite 430 for $29 AR, which isn't a bad deal either. And the rosewill stallion for $29 isn't a bad price on a PSU. It's not a great psu for but $29 it's not bad at all.
Then there's the 650 1GB for $71. At that price it's not a bad deal, especially considering you get $75 of nvidia game credit - im not sure if you can sell that on ebay, but im sure if you buy a single game that makes the 650 1gb worth it? Perfect if you just need a GPU that's just capable of maxing out sc2/dota style games and you dont need anything more.
There's also the 3570k + asus p8z77-v LE Plus which isn't a bad deal on a decent motherboard for $284. If you don't live near MC that's a good deal.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
One thing I'm not sure if people have mentioned is that Haswell is apparently bringing Sandy Bridge-E-style multiplier straps.
Instead of just a multiplier based on 100 MHz +/- a little bit, there are options of 125 MHz and 166 MHz as well.
So non-K processors could be overclocked like the i7-3820 can now? These have multiplier caps, but you can just set the multiplier lower than stock for something like 28 x 166 MHz instead of 34 x 100 MHz, right?
That is, unless there's some arbitrary restriction enforced.
I said it before once or twice in here, we have 100/125/166mhz now (5:5, 5:4, 5:3) and i heard +- 5-7% - but Nobody really changes the base clock on Ivy even though it i seem to recall Intel saying the same thing for that, maybe it will be more free with Haswell though (+- 5-7% on all three clocks would allow for much easier ranges to hit with an integer multiplier) but that's probably down to what shit is linked or unlinked to it. I'm sure i read a lot more and formed opinions on it, but i can't remember right now.
If we have free base clock changes on non-k CPU's it will completely destroy the low end market, i3's are what, 3.1ghz? Overclocking an i5 with 2 cores disabled increases your yields, decreases voltage requirements and drops temperatures so much (I mean like, literally 30c) so i would be EXTREMELY interested on what you can do with a Haswell i3 if you can OC.
I mean, compared to ivy bridge at 3.1ghz stock i3.. Hell, if Haswell overclocks really well and is tolerant of voltage like Ivy bridge you might not need to fall up/down from 125/166mhz, you could just flat out throw a 66% overclock on there if you got a decent/great chip, which would be hilarious
All entirely low knowledge speculation though
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Haha a successor to those 5Ghz Clarkdales - is that your thinking?
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The reason no one changes bclk on ivy is because it's tied to the pci express controller and sata controller. The whole novelty with haswell is that they have these bclk straps that basically are certain levels of bclk that only apply to the CPU, while not changing the pci-express, ram, or sata controllers.
However I'm pretty sure the non-K cpus will be tied to the PCI/Sata, so you won't really be able to overclock the non-k haswell's much more than you can with current non-k edition CPUs. There won't be any overclocking on haswell i3's, at least, nothing appreciable, because the bclk will still be tied to pci/sata and there is a locked multi.
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No one knows yet, I think. The multiplier could do it's multiplying with that 166 MHz instead of the outside 100 MHz, and if it's as free as now, it's only limited at its max value, so you could put it to 125 or 166 MHz BCLK and then "downclock" with the multiplier if it's unstable.
Intel has put parts of the VRM into the CPU, so perhaps they'll limit it that way, making much overclocking impossible because of not being able to raise vcore on the locked CPUs.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Oh yea, that's what i heard - you actually reminded me of it, Belial
It was that the 5:4 and 5:3 ratio's for base clock (against 100mhz - so 125 and 166) might (or will) require "k" to be unlocked.
However - if that's the case - all Intel has to do is throw out an i3 4220k and they will instantly remove Phenom II from the market.
Haha a successor to those 5Ghz Clarkdales - is that your thinking?
Actually i was not around to see that. It was a thing?
It's one of the reasons i was so suprised at blue, i had almost 0 tech knowledge, like my first interest was "oh, this thing called sandy bridge just got released", i guess it was an A for effort from whoever blues people?
I dunno, just woke up one day not a pm or anything o.0
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On April 24 2013 05:54 Ropid wrote:
No one knows yet, I think. The multiplier could do it's multiplying with that 166 MHz instead of the outside 100 MHz, and if it's as free as now, it's only limited at its max value, so you could put it to 125 or 166 MHz BCLK and then "downclock" with the multiplier if it's unstable.
Intel has put parts of the VRM into the CPU, so perhaps they'll limit it that way, making much overclocking impossible because of not being able to raise vcore on the locked CPUs.
Oh, people know. Intel did a presentation at beijing on overclocking like 4 weeks ago, and more information came out recently on haswell's pricing. You guys all know about that right?
![[image loading]](http://www.fudzilla.com/images/stories/2013/April/haswell_pricing_1.jpg)
The on-die VRM only finetunes the voltage, you still need a VRM on the motherboard, as evidenced by the gigabyte z87 itx and the asrock and asus z87s that have been previewed. You still need to translate that 12v into ~1v for the CPU, there's no way the on-die VRM will handle 12v. It will be up to the motherboards to put voltage limits on the CPU - it's entirely possible that intel could tell mobo manufacturer's that aren't allowed to release motherboard with voltage controls up to a certain value, just like nvidia did with the titan to GPU companies, but I don't see that happening (and with titan you can just edit the bios, not a big deal to get around the voltage lock).
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EPT
