Nighthawk --> Raven Apparently there's been another name change and it's now called "Raven" *new Ability* Defensive Drone: With this drone you are able to intercept enemy projectiles, e.g. rockets of the terran missile turrets. Therefore this special weapon is especially well suited for attacks on bases. Against small bore (like the spines of the Hydralisk), however, it is powerless.
Brood Lord *new Model*
High Templar *new Ability* Plasma Surge: This ability is similar to the shield battery in sc1 as it allows the ht to recharge the damaged shields of all friendly protoss units in a selected area
On May 09 2009 07:19 Chuiu wrote: At least it looks kinda cool. Though its as if they tried to one up the SC Guardian:
I liked the old look, but the new one isn't bad. I guess time will tell all, whether it is good or bad, or a complete failure. I have faith in Blizzard that the latter won't happen.
Defensive Drone sounds... imba? Stop static defenses and missile your peons into oblivion? Ok, too early to say.
High Templar ability is somewhat of a surprse - after all, it seems Protoss *are* getting a healing ability - but I think it will play well anyways. I like it.
I don't like the Brood Lord's new look. Looks too much like Guardians, I just hope it looks huge in-game. I always tought Zerg needed a big-ass flying unit to match Carriers and BC's for some reason.
I like the defensive drone, it makes it harder to turtle.
SC2 is definitely going to be fast paced with all of the new mass-unit transport abilities, and some of the anti-camp measures like the defensive drones. Suh-weet.
I'm happy toss is getting back a shield recharge ability - but on the high templar? Not saying it's bad, it just seems like an odd chance - it's always struck me as a fragile, offensive spell caster I guess.
A shield battery would make more sense - in my mind - on the mothership or the Nullifier. Something more mechanical/supportive I guess.
HT's might move faster now that Psi Storm has been toned down (so they can run with your army), making the shield battery support spell worthwhile, imo.
Edit: Hey, now we can close that gay thread about giving Protoss healing!
In a way i dont see how the defensive drone is better than disruption web wich also stops static defenses as well as units... not that it has to be better, its kinda cool i guess..
if defensive drone doesn't stop units i think its a pretty good spell..turns the Raven into a viable Harass unit and not just support. Fly in with two, have one send out a drone and the other lauch seekers into the mineral line...and since the missles can apparently be avoided we should get some nice reaver-scarab-esque 'will it get many kills or not' moments'
should be exciting for the crowd.
I agree that the high temp really doesn't need the shield battery ability. Either bring back the building or put it on the mothership (with a buff of course) Imagine a mothership holding over a protoss army or base and giving their shields roach-level regeneration
as for the Brood-Lord...i sort of like the new look. The old Swarm-guardian was a bit to big and clunky looking, i like this smaller design. Zerg were never about big capital ships...They have the Ultralisk, they don't need another unit the size of building
On May 09 2009 09:34 lordmordor wrote: I agree that the high temp really doesn't need the shield battery ability. Either bring back the building or put it on the mothership (with a buff of course) Imagine a mothership holding over a protoss army or base and giving their shields roach-level regeneration
I agree that the High Templar was an interesting choice for this ability, I was kind of hoping the Templar would still be slow. And having a slow unit with a heal is just annoying, which is why I don't know if it fits the mothership either.
Perhaps it would be better on the Archon? They are flooded with excess power anyway, and are harder to mass (which would limit the heals use a little more, which personally I don't think is a bad thing considering that its got mobility at all... it was a little harder to use shield battery offensively).
On May 09 2009 07:46 FrozenArbiter wrote: I'm happy toss is getting back a shield recharge ability - but on the high templar? Not saying it's bad, it just seems like an odd chance - it's always struck me as a fragile, offensive spell caster I guess.
A shield battery would make more sense - in my mind - on the mothership or the Nullifier. Something more mechanical/supportive I guess.
The HT never was a pure offensive spellcaster, he always had Hallucination - which no one bothered to use. Kinda also what happend with the Shield battery.
They are also are nice opposites of each other, where you use the charge is exactly where you DON´T want to use Lightning.
If it´s on the Mothership it´s basically the same as the shield battery expect worse since you only get one. If it´s on the Desruptor no one will use Hallucination... again.
Sounds like they want you to do less cannibalistic psi storm casting... so instead of killing your zealots just to kill the zerglings quicker, you now can consider choosing to heal "safely". I think they just made the High Temp easier to "calculate", which in a way I don't like... but then again I guess with weaker storm it makes sense. What I mean is now if army A has 2 templar, they have mana to do X amount of damage or Y amount of healing. You never get caught with your pants down, I suppose.
So the question is (haven't checked the link yet), does it cost the same amount of mana to heal 1 guy vs 20?
On May 09 2009 10:49 Blacklizard wrote: Sounds like they want you to do less cannibalistic psi storm casting... so instead of killing your zealots just to kill the zerglings quicker, you now can consider choosing to heal "safely". I think they just made the High Temp easier to "calculate", which in a way I don't like... but then again I guess with weaker storm it makes sense. What I mean is now if army A has 2 templar, they have mana to do X amount of damage or Y amount of healing. You never get caught with your pants down, I suppose.
So the question is (haven't checked the link yet), does it cost the same amount of mana to heal 1 guy vs 20?
Well, it says it restores all shields within an area. The question would be, how big is the area, and how many shield points.
I kinda like the HT having this ability, because Storm is so strong, it's hard to implement another ability worth using.
Just have HT hallucinate three clones instead of two, but keep their cost relatively high to the economy as they are in SC. That way you can actually get a lot of hallucinations for roughly the same cost as a lot storms. You would maybe add a couple more templar to your army, but think of the damage soak, and with your new teleporting abilities you could clone a huge army to attack somewhere drawing away your enemies and then teleport your real army into a now undefended base.
On May 09 2009 14:31 konadora wrote: Eh, why the name change to Raven? Trying to follow the bird species after 'Vulture'?
Nighthawk sounds cooler IMO.
On May 09 2009 14:33 A3iL3r0n wrote: I prefer Nighthawk too, then the name of their hunter-seeker missiles make more sense.
I disagree. Raven fits the unit perfectly. Nighthawk is a bird to, don't forget that They are both birds, Raven just sounds and fits better. It's just opinion though.
On May 09 2009 14:33 A3iL3r0n wrote: I prefer Nighthawk too, then the name of their hunter-seeker missiles make more sense.
I disagree. Raven fits the unit perfectly. Nighthawk is a bird to, don't forget that They are both birds, Raven just sounds and fits better. It's just opinion though.
Nighthawk doesn't really give you that feel that it sounds like a bird. Raven does. I'm sure most people don't think about that bald bird when we talk about Terran vultures.
For me it's not really about looks, it's more about practicality, because when I finally learned to use my zerglings to their maximum they became most beautiful of creatures for me
On May 09 2009 14:31 konadora wrote: Eh, why the name change to Raven? Trying to follow the bird species after 'Vulture'?
Nighthawk sounds cooler IMO.
On May 09 2009 14:33 A3iL3r0n wrote: I prefer Nighthawk too, then the name of their hunter-seeker missiles make more sense.
I disagree. Raven fits the unit perfectly. Nighthawk is a bird to, don't forget that They are both birds, Raven just sounds and fits better. It's just opinion though.
Nighthawk doesn't really give you that feel that it sounds like a bird. Raven does. I'm sure most people don't think about that bald bird when we talk about Terran vultures.
I'm sure we all did until we'd played too much SC to think of it as anything but a fast hover bike..
The old broodlord was a lot better imo, the caterpillar aspect is cooler and more menacing The new one is just a remodeled guardian, and i dont like the new art
Broodlord looks too much like SC1 Guardian... (been said) what it Should look like is a large, fairly compact, egg/box shaped thing (essentially most of its body being the organs that spawn the Broodlings). Something like a cross between the SC1 Queen and the Overlord (especially since it really should be seen as an evolution of the SC1 Queen.. ie it has the 'Spawn Broodlings' as its attack)
Raven... no... for the Nomad's current set of abilities the name should be either. "Ghostlike" ie like Banshee/Wraith, etc. [especially if you keep the current model] "Industrial sounding"..ie go back to Vulcan or something else with a 'construction/engineer' sound...and change the model to something closer to what it used to be.
Not Entirely sure I like the Defensive Drone idea too much, as it seems like an additional flag units will need (direct ranged attack/missile ranged attack) It depends a lot on the details of how it works too.
I actually thought Phase Shift was an Interesting Idea... but given that Vortex has been confirmed to be very Stasis field like, as opposed to Maelstrom like, there is a fair amount of overlap. The "Plasma Surge" is interesting.... I'd probably stick with giving it a fairly wide AoE, give a high number of shield points... but cost a lot of energy.. to differentiate it from Shield Battery (Wonder if it will work on allied Battle Cruisers with their DMatrix up?) Question. if it will also affect buildings and if it will affect enemies?
Nullifier->Disrupter definitely approve (Nullifier was ok, Disrupter fits its role much better)
I think the brood lord looks amazing personally. The only similarity between the broodlord and the guardian is the general triangle shape which i think was much better done on the broodlord by removing the crab legs making it look like a sleek death machine... It looks 'faster' than a guardian so lets hope that it is.
The shield ability on the HT is a good idea too. Any time you give a player more tools you have more opportunity to see some crazy moves. Defensive matrix usage has been shown in quite a few highlight reels and now protoss can pull some crazy shit. They still have to manage their energy between that and psi must like T had to do with irradiate and matrix.. looks good imo.
On May 09 2009 10:26 IdrA wrote: you do realize those 2 are their races main spellcasters right?
Logic has no place on the TL Starcraft 2 subforum sir.
Any change Blizzard makes to SC2 is automatically a bad thing that has ruined gaming for all eternity.
QFT
I disagree with the templar spell, someone had the idea of letting archons have it, and that would be cool, they transfer their shield to all units around them.
On May 10 2009 04:35 afg-warrior wrote: raven....reminds me of the helicopters from gears of war. i could see people screaming that blizzard copied epic.
I hope they do, so we can laugh at them for being retards.
On May 09 2009 10:26 IdrA wrote: you do realize those 2 are their races main spellcasters right?
Logic has no place on the TL Starcraft 2 subforum sir.
Any change Blizzard makes to SC2 is automatically a bad thing that has ruined gaming for all eternity.
QFT
I disagree with the templar spell, someone had the idea of letting archons have it, and that would be cool, they transfer their shield to all units around them.
edit: sweet my 100th post :D
It would very rarely get used then, why waste all of that gas making an archon to just waste it.
On May 10 2009 04:35 afg-warrior wrote: raven....reminds me of the helicopters from gears of war. i could see people screaming that blizzard copied epic.
I hope they do, so we can laugh at them for being retards.
And then they can laugh at you while they sleep in piles of money.
the HT will have to much spells and the current role of the unit will be completely derailed imho. the concept of this ability is cool but it will be better to be put on the archon
When they annouced zerg could heal, what people said was that it would suit protoss better. And now that it's the case, everybody is against it. This is a good idea, imo, because HTs are going to be present in any matchups.
On May 10 2009 11:48 SaharaDrac wrote: Has a change ever been made to this game, a unit announced, ANYTHING announced that this forum approved of? Honestly?
You expect an entire forum to agree with something? seriously??
Heal for protoss is interesting, but I also wonder if having it on the ht is the best. the nullifier or disruptor as its now called seems better, but of course I havnt played the game so I dont know. I really liked the name Nighthawk.
I am not for or against the 'Heals for Protoss' discussion, but from a tactical standpoint..
By putting the ability on the Archon it makes it a much deeper ability to obtain, and also prevents it from being in 'all' games. It becomes something you decide to go for rather than a staple unit. It also allows the ability too be designed to be more powerful, because of the massively increased cost and tech to achieve it.
On May 10 2009 11:48 SaharaDrac wrote: Has a change ever been made to this game, a unit announced, ANYTHING announced that this forum approved of? Honestly?
Goliath-> Viking Dragoon-> Stalker
I don't remember seeing (m)any complaints about these, but overall I'd agree with you.
Did anyone else like the kinda segmented look of the swarm gaurdian? I thought it was awesome how it kinda swam through the air. If they took the brown textures of the new brood lord and put it on the segmented model of the swarm guardian I think we would have a winner. Can I get an AHMEN?
Old Guardian name/model was much more better IMO! ...As well as Vulture was a lots better than Jackal(or how its called right now...) And Scout was better then Phoenix... and ... :D
... Why change so much anyways?! Guess they have to save something(including some old fav's) for the 2 expansions actually) =)
Now I really need to keep playing Terran in sequel ;-)
Defensive Drone on Nigh... Raven sounds nice, but I did like the original Targeting Drone much more - it was implemented in beta version published in Paris BWWI year ago and it really felt good for Terran.
New model for Brood Lord looks nice, so classic, but now new name does not fit to this unit anymore in my humble opinion.
Plasma Surge sounds not really Protossish to me +with their high hp units and ability to support air units this way... I think they will need to make it expensive (100 mana for one use) and not autocastable x shield per y mana Medic kind of healing accessible any time.
some of you are retarded, particularly anyone saying imba about anything when you have no idea how it will even affect the game. also someone saying too many spellcasters? it means more micro which is a good thing to make up for the easier unit selection and production
On May 11 2009 22:13 infinity2k9 wrote: some of you are retarded, particularly anyone saying imba about anything when you have no idea how it will even affect the game. also someone saying too many spellcasters? it means more micro which is a good thing to make up for the easier unit selection and production
Rob Pardo Said With StarCraft 2, "we're really going back to our roots," says Pardo. By this he means the sequel will be more StarCraft, more focused on fast-paced gameplay and lesser amounts of micromanagement, rather than an evolution of the WarCraft 3 formula.
On May 11 2009 22:13 infinity2k9 wrote: it means more micro which is a good thing to make up for the easier unit selection and production
no, it means less macro. go play wc3 if you like micro and abilities on every unit, it doesn't belong in starcraft. instead of focusing on ways to increase macro to balance the distribution of actions, they just constantly add more micro abilities. that's the problem.
Just wait until you see the Brood Lord in motion, from how the unit looks from an animation stand point I'd guess that it will rear itself up like a rattlesnake before firing and revealing its belly.
What you all see now is a static screen shot of it moving across the screen, in action it may be very different, plus the old swarm guardians worm motion couldnt have been very intimidating.
I really do think Blizzard is onto a win here..... well aside from the name, I prefer "giant dung flunger"
well, each shot from a broodlord is going to be like a zealot bomb :D.
I think this makes the unit alot more interesting- for example if we were to face marines backed with several seiged tanks, broodlords firing at the marines would cause the seige tanks to kill all the marines. All of these broodlings could cluster fuck a group of marines as well, making it easier for lurkers to come in to play without being mowed down. Making the brood lord a pretty good anti friendly fire slpash damage unit, if such a thing will be needed for sc2.
Those on the side of more macro debate, want more macro than micro, and vice versa for the micro side. What those on the macro side don't realize, is that there is still macro, and macro can still seperate players, as evident watching the BR's (But, again, you only take into account Gosu's), but the game isn't based around it, unlike SCI.
However, I want more micro, not with abilities, but with actually tactical and strategic decisions, that actually *gasp* take more skill, because you are actively engaging your opponent another human being, where as macro is your ability to manage everything that is non unit related.
You see, the exciting parts of SC all have to do with Micro and units dying fast for exciting plays, etc. There will always be top tier players at every game, no matter how casual, or hardcore. So, that arguement of everyone will be the same is proven to be false. If you can cite a few examples, or even one, where the majority of players can beat the top player(s) with any consistency, then you may have some validity, but there are no instances of such.
I'm not advocating no macro, I just want macro that isn't robotic. Personally, I would rather have Auto-Mine stay in, but change its mechanic, where if you waypoint your workers to a mineral, they don't auto spread. So you still have macro, and you still have Auto-Mine, but you still have to be conscious of your workers. I don't like AI taking over too much of the gameplay.
On May 11 2009 22:13 infinity2k9 wrote: it means more micro which is a good thing to make up for the easier unit selection and production
no, it means less macro. go play wc3 if you like micro and abilities on every unit, it doesn't belong in starcraft. instead of focusing on ways to increase macro to balance the distribution of actions, they just constantly add more micro abilities. that's the problem.
Sigh.
SC1 zealot: Nothing. SC2 zealot: nothing (no, charge is not a user ability, it's a speed buff just like leg enhancement in SC1).
I'm not gonna do the other 2 races but as you can see, it's pretty much the same, so before you complain, make sure you know what you are talking about -_-
And besides, hello, they just added a ton of macro abilities (read Q&A 49).
SC1 Goliath/Valkyrie: Nothing SC2 Viking: Different modes which I won't count, since I hardly think these are the kinds of unit activated abilities we're talking about
SC1 BC: Yamato cannon SC2 BC: Yamato, Missle pods, d-matrix (unconfirmed what they actually have these days)
Total SC1: 14 SC2: 15 (16 if you count ground/air mode for the viking)
SC1 Queen: Parasite, Spawn broodlings, Ensare SC2 Queen: Razor plague, Spawn larva, Spawn creep tumour (the only one that really counts here is razor plague, but I'll count all of them)
SC1 Defiler: Plague, Dark Swarm, Consume SC2 Infestor: Fungal infestation, neural parasite, spawn infested terran (ugh! get rid of that)
Total SC1: 6 SC2: 9 (but pretty much 7, since Spawn larva is one of the macro abilities, and creep tumour is what a drone "did" in SC1)
However, not all SC1 abilities are used, like restoration, optical flare, nuke, lockdown (ghosts in general), parasite, ensare, spawn broodlings (queen may be sometimes used, but they are certainly not a staple unit), yamato cannon, d-web, scouts in general etc.
So now that we have so many abilities that are potentially worth using, yes it looks like this game is turning into a "micro whorefest" or whatever. Can't blame blizzard for trying to make units/abilities worth using though, can you?
Well.. this is interesting. I'm glad someone actually took the time to compare the number of abilities between the two. The facts are a lot more encouraging than what a lot of people have been claiming.
I just wanna say siege mode should definitely be included. It is THE micro ability of SC1. That and psi storm. I also want to say that I just want the beta to start...PLEASE Blizzard!!
It´s hard to actually mesure the abilities like that. For example the Medivacs Heal is automatic, the Battlecruisers 3 abilities mutually exclusive. The Ravens toys are indirect which I guess makes them easier to use.
On May 10 2009 13:45 anch wrote: Templar the new medic, wtf. the AoE healing is very WC3.
.. Just so you know shield batteries can do AoE healing.
Just click on the ground and it will heal all shields in that area.
The only AoE heal in WC3 I can think of are the healing wards (unless you want to count heal scrolls).
statues aoe heal, fountains of health, chain heal isnt really aoe but its multiple target heal, alchemist has a spray heal that heals an aoe (even enemy if hes in it), replenishment scroll for human aoe heals too
Aoe heals are great additions to a game i personally think, knowing exactly the best time to use aoe heals is a skill usually only achieved through experience, it also takes a fast reaction time/micro to be able to hit them properly
Researchable abilities is big part of what makes StarCraft so extremely deep! What if they removed Zealot speed upg in SC? There would be no famous +1 timing push and thus removing an entire strategy from the book! That's why it's important that SC2 has many upgradeable abilities aswell.
[Q] Do the zealots still have leg enhacements or charge is its substitute? does anyone knows how the charge mechanic work? u just a move and they boost?
On May 09 2009 07:13 Drizzit wrote: Nighthawk --> Raven Apparently there's been another name change and it's now called "Raven" *new Ability* Defensive Drone: With this drone you are able to intercept enemy projectiles, e.g. rockets of the terran missile turrets. Therefore this special weapon is especially well suited for attacks on bases. Against small bore (like the spines of the Hydralisk), however, it is powerless.
Okay, one new ability. But have they removed the Hunter-Seeker Missles?? Would be great, 'cause I thought in BR2 that they were kinda imba...
hunter seekers are in no way imba...they aren't obscenely powerful, they can be dodged, and they move fairly slowly
What they are good at is forcing the opponent to either micro his units away to avoid the missle, or just stay there and take the damage. the zerg in the BR just wasn't good enough to avoid them and ended up losing his army. He let the terran build up like 3-4 of them and then allowed them to just bomb his uits
High Templar *new Ability* Plasma Surge: This ability is similar to the shield battery in sc1 as it allows the ht to recharge the damaged shields of all friendly protoss units in a selected area
On May 15 2009 01:57 DragoonPK wrote: With the ability to regenerate sheild in play, shouldn't the max energy for the Templars be increase somewhat?
A templar shouldn't be able to do both, this creates a situation where judgment of a player has a major impact on how a battle plays out which is best for the game.
On May 14 2009 22:48 Kim_Hyun_Han wrote: good counter-arguments up there ;]
[Q] Do the zealots still have leg enhacements or charge is its substitute? does anyone knows how the charge mechanic work? u just a move and they boost?
The upgrade gives Zealots the movement increase exactly like in SC1. However, it has the added effect of accelerating (charging) quickly when they close in on an enemy. It's automatic when you get the speed upgrade. It also has a short cooldown before it can happen again.
EPT![[image loading]](http://images.gamestar.de/images/idgwpgsgp/bdb/2007441/800x600_prop.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.digitalenhance.com/buddy/icons/starcraft/oguardian.gif){kind=icon}
They are both birds, Raven just sounds and fits better. It's just opinion though.
![[image loading]](http://www.sc2armory.com/images/screenshot/117.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.sc2armory.com/images/screenshot/119.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/b/b6/SwarmGuardian_SC2_Game3.jpg)
