EPTMap balancible Macro Mechanics: mineral distrib - Page 2
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
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zimz
United States510 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On January 12 2009 21:15 zimz wrote: wats the point? when u have enough workers, all mineral patches will be mined at the same time. it would only effect the first few minutes of an expansion. its pointless. I believe your correct in saying that after worker line saturation this mechanic would have no effect. On January 12 2009 21:15 zimz wrote: why dont we we just go and add frogger on the mineral patches so he can jump mineral to mineral patch and then u keep him jumping on these mineral patches or u wont get extra frog power stats on ur units. Frogger idea has potential but would be imbalanced for terran who already have hopping units like viking and reapers. | ||
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Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
On January 12 2009 20:52 Starparty wrote: actually, seeing the screenshots of the demo sc2 map as posted on bwmn, i think there actually is one more mineral kind, a gold coloured mineral expansion. I suppose it has some greater benefits than a normal blue one so this idea (might) just already be implemented to a certain extent? You are right, iirc gold minerals get double the amount of minerals (10) per gather. I believe that these two types, gold and blue, may be sufficient to serve as an incentive for pro-gamers to micromanage workers before the point of saturation. Still, having more types of minerals with varying performances will allow better fine-tuning, and more strategical depth options for mapmakers. Perhaps a simple configuration per mineral, but then there's the need for some standardization as well as visualization so it remains viewable for those less experienced with a map. The thing is, when Blizzard mentioned the gold minerals, they said it could be used for 'gold mineral bases' in difficult positions. The op thought further, and saw a solution for worker micro, by mixing these mineral types in a single mineral line. And to those who claim it is not a good solution because saturation ends the need for worker micro: - When a mineral line is saturated, no matter what, there is less incentive to micro workers. This is already the case in the current game of Starcraft. Only mechanics like strip mining prevent this percieved problem. - Worker raids happen often enough, keeping bases from being saturated. When worker raids don't happen, there's probably enough action going on in the game at that point. - New bases do get constructed. Often enough? Would be nice to see a study on games indicating the time where a player has full worker saturation on all bases, and when not. | ||
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shimmy
Poland997 Posts
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Oliwoli
United Kingdom69 Posts
Its like destructable rocks. Just because they're in the game doesnt mean every map will have them. Several mineral types at least add more potential to the game, they give mapmakers more to work with. If they don;t solve macro, so be it, but they can at least make interesting expansions. However i do think they will add to macro, bringing back the possibility of microing workers, which was irrelevant in SC1 after a certain saturation - so there is no real change. | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
The community, or more specifically creative mapmakers could and will make such interesting mechanics for particular maps, ESPECIALLY if the successful trend of changing maps seasonally set by Kespa remains. I personally like this idea, as it increases complexity of timing strategies/surgical worker line strikes, and this is a good increase to strategy/tactics, while the effect on the game's complexity from a newb PoV remains nearly null. The key point however, is for Blizzard to OFFICIALLY implement such a mechanic (kudos to the OP again, this is an ingeniously simple solution to increase macro). As in, what will make them accept something like this over a worse solution? If SC2 is to have a more demanding macro facet, it is quite imperative that the game is originally created that way, because no matter what the SC hardcore community does with maps, the mass of new players will set the trend on a low demanding macro, multitask-wise, because people always choose whats easier over what is not. Complementary is the fact that if SC2 is to be successful as an Esport, the focus around the SKorean scene will be greatly diminished compared to how it is today with SC, as it will most likely 'catch on' worldwide, similar to how WC3 evolved as an Esport, in my humble opinion .This only means that the already experienced professional scene formed in South Korea will have less of an influence, and it will highly likely that whatever the equivalent of KeSPA will be for SC2, it will not set a dominating map trend every few months. | ||
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indecision
Germany818 Posts
On January 12 2009 11:35 Dromar wrote: Me too. And it's not complex at all. It just takes something that's already there and expands it a bit. This idea is incredibly good. [x] Not too complex [x] Balance through maps [x] Advantage for manual mining | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
Actually when I think about it, I'm 99% sure this idea will be capable of being implemented in SC2 without even telling Blizzard about this specific application. Since there are already blue and gold(high yield) mins, it really wouldn't make sense if there wasn't an ability in the map editor to change mineral yields just as an normal function of the map editor. Probably you would be able to change the color too, iirc you could change the color of units in the WC3 editor? On January 12 2009 22:42 Archerofaiur wrote: Frogger idea has potential but would be imbalanced for terran who already have hopping units like viking and reapers. I can't believe you actually took him seriously. | ||
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
On January 13 2009 08:43 Fontong wrote: I can't believe you actually took him seriously. You never know, you just might be Romanian | ||
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aeronexus
United States392 Posts
On January 13 2009 07:20 indecision wrote: This idea is incredibly good. [x] Not too complex [x] Balance through maps [x] Advantage for manual mining one more QFT  I think it would be hilarious to see early-game peon fights over mineral patches :D | ||
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Ki_Do
Korea (South)981 Posts
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Konni
Germany3044 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On January 13 2009 08:43 Fontong wrote: I can't believe you actually took him seriously. I can't believe you actually took me seriously. | ||
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gravity
Australia1873 Posts
edit: also, the ideas presented here of how to use different mineral types are just as important as inventing them in the first place, because if Blizzard implements this in the retail game, it will be much more likely to be widely used/accepted by the community than if it has to be added in custom maps. | ||
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GeorgeForeman
United States1746 Posts
eg: _________MM MM ______ CC______ MM _________MM (M = minerals, CC = CC/nexus/hatch; underscores are just there for formatting) Basically, the mineral patches are spaced at around the CC in such a way that workers rallied to one patch won't move to the other ones when they get saturated. This is certainly cruder than the solution suggested in the initial post (which I like in a lot of ways) and would require only a bit more time to macro appropriately, but it's far easier to implement. Just a thought. ^_^ | ||
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selboN
United States2523 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + But I suppose you are all being more civil about this than I. | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
Low grade ore: Returns 2 minerals per trip. If a sufficient number of works is ordered to mine from a low grade ore patch, they will instead do a worker drill that destroys the low grade patch. Graphically, a low grade ore could be a rocky outcropping with blue mineral viens. Standard grade ore: Returns 5 minerals per trip. Represented by the standard blue mineral patch. High grade ore: Returns 8 minerals per trip. Represented by golden minerals. The concept is to have multiple layers of minerals. The first layer would be mostly standard minerals with several low grade patchs thrown in the front line that could be drilled out to expose three or four standard patches to mine. The standard front patches would be lower numbers than standard BW, and would exhaust in the mid game rather than later. After they exhaust more low grade patches are exposed that need to be drilled out to once again exposing three or four standard patches, allowing more effecient mining. | ||
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eugen1225
Yugoslavia134 Posts
The point I'm trying to make is that if Blizzard is soooo hard pressed to put in a mechanic just to make the game more "difficult" to please you SBS nostalgic crowd i would much rather have MBS out and play the old-fashioned way with SBS, than play with a retarded mechanic, witch I also think is the ultimate goal of all this whole circus. So they can happily announce a few months later that they tried everything out and that ppl ultimately like SBS better than the new mechanics and they keep everyone happy. It is also a theory of mine that the reason we don't have a beta out, and the whole product for that matter is the stupid SBS/MBS/new mechanic debate, guess who i blame for that? edit:typo | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On January 14 2009 05:25 eugen1225 wrote: I'm sick of these stupid mechanics. I read them all Can anyone propose a solution to this guy so he stops getting so sick? | ||
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