Northern Ireland25558 Posts
On September 04 2025 08:28 Avexyli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 13:46 goody153 wrote:
...but I do wonder how viable map design is being racial balance in Sc2. Highground for example isnt as strongly valued in sc2 as it is in broodwar This is frequently brought up but it will not be possible to balance around maps because of the variety of unit compositions per race as well as their economic needs in the LotV economy. For example, a defendable forward base that Protoss players would enjoy would be equally if not better for Mech terran in the vast majority of cases. There are too many design issues that have not been addressed for maps to play the role they want them to.
You could do it, but you’d have to have a bigger map pool with maps that are only queued for specific matchups I think. I’d love to see what mapmakers could do in trying to make say, the ultimately PvZ map, or TvZ map and balance around the metas and trends in those matchups. Instead they kinda have to make a bunch of maps that are vaguely balanced across the board, which doesn’t leave for a huge amount of experimentation
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On September 04 2025 08:28 Avexyli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 13:46 goody153 wrote:
...but I do wonder how viable map design is being racial balance in Sc2. Highground for example isnt as strongly valued in sc2 as it is in broodwar As for the discussion with the council, or balance changes in general, the major issue is that after the team departed there has been 0 direction for which these changes are made. They exist only to solve present issues at face value, the people who are in the council have 0 hours of game design experience at production levels and the combination of those things lead to the deeper hole the balance state is currently in. At no point in LotV, or anywhere in SC2's lifespan was there a time where the meta was truly good and balanced, the end of each patch would eventually have some strateg(ies) creep up and disrupt everything again.
That's not true at all.
Several of Legacy of the Void's patches have been balanced from a statistical point-of-view, especially once you allow for the presence of outstanding players like Serral or Maru skewing tournament wins in their race's favour.
Blizzard just needs to roll back to one of those patches and have done with it.
The very first Balance Council patch (5.0.9) would work just fine. It won't trigger the community's pathological hatred of Void Rays like Blizzard's final patch did, it retains the majority of Blizzard's intended "final state" for the game, the Balance Council hadn't had enough time to go full clown mode before implementing those changes, and both balance statistics and tournament results look relatively fair when viewed in retrospect.
There's really no reason not to do this. We need to accept that Blizzard no longer wants to actively develop the game, and thus accept that there needs to be a "final state" balance patch.
And we really really really don't need self-interested content creators (who only want changes so they can pump out content about the changes) or professional players (who are always going to want their race to be stronger because it makes it easier for them to earn money) tinkering with things when they're not experienced game developers.
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Of course, you can balance using only maps, they said the same about 2v2, 2v2 just doesn't play the same in sc2.. If you don't try, you don't know.
I don't mind if we stay on this patch, it's a broken one, but it works. I'd probably rather be on the last blizzard patch, since it feels more legitimate, but think we should go to using custom mods to try out changes from here on out.
I have a lot of passion for what sc2 could ultimately be, but there's no trust anymore, so give us mods that work, and let the work do the speaking.
My wish for sc2 is that for it to be as slow as WoL,,but keep the zaniness of lotv and lost awesomeness. For instance, when I want to play terran, I want to bunker up and use ghosts and mass ravens, or bcs. When I play protoss I want to do archon toilet and even have disruptor shot as cherry on top, and as zerg I want to use mutas, and set up tactical flanks or hold fire lurkers, or bane mines.
I thought the tankivac was silly, but if it's gated behind an expensive upgrade, then why not. Make the game slow by locking all expansion units behind new buildings, and lock the crazy power behind upgrades, and give back a ton of money so that we can see huge armies clash again.
Disruptors aren't even an issue if you can rebuild armies, the problem comes when the mineral line blows up, because that hinders the rebuild ability. And I mean slow, tanks should require siege mode again, muta regen/speed and medivac boost should be upgrades. Stim should be 150\150 and have long research time and wg as well. Stuff like this, I like the half mineral patches, but they should be 1000/2000 so there's the same WoL amount, and perhaps 8 worker start, or reduce mineral income from 5->4.
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EPT
