AfreecaTV will hold a "SC1 vs SC2 Supermatch" tournament in the trending SC: Evo Complete arcade mod, putting up a 6,000,000 KRW (approximately $4,300 USD) total prize pool.
The SC: Evo Complete mod implements the Brood War versions of Terran, Protoss, and Zerg in StarCraft II, and 'cross-game' matches have recently become popular content among AfreecaTV streamers and gaming YouTubers in Korea.
The tournament/showmatch will be held at the FreecUP Studio (GSL studio) on Wednesday, May 15 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00). The event will be held as a series of 1v1 matches between two teams comprised of BW streamers and current SC2 pros, with each match being between BW and SC2 races.
Team A : Cure, TY, Snow, Soulkey Team B: Dark, Classic, Mini, Action
State and Tasteless are set to provide an English cast. While there's no specific information on English stream, it will presumably be streamed on the AfreecaTV and YouTube GSL channels.
On May 09 2024 14:36 radracer wrote: How does one find this custom game on bnet?
It's an SC2 mod, so go in the "Melee" tab of custom games, select a map and "Create with mod". In the mod window, search for "SC: Evo" and select "SC: Evo Complete", then click on "Create lobby".
In the lobby, there's a option to select "Game Race". By default it's "BW", but you can pick "SC2" or "Random".
How does it work? Do scbw races have MBS? Worker mineral rally? Highground miss chance? Limited control groups? Or is it entirely sc2, just with different units, stats and upgrades?
On May 10 2024 00:08 Branch.AUT wrote: How does it work? Do scbw races have MBS? Worker mineral rally? Highground miss chance? Limited control groups? Or is it entirely sc2, just with different units, stats and upgrades?
yes, finally, a multiplayer mod for SC2. I wait since 4 or 5 years, since Activision acquired Blizzard. Thanks to the Kropulu team for releasing this modification (what i would have liked to do)
Maybe we will see some roachs cross over cliffs in next patch !!!!
On May 10 2024 20:43 XenOsky wrote: if reavers work 100% of the time and goons are not absolute idiots like in bw, snow is prolly winning this thing.
i really wanna watch mirrors tho... sc1 vs sc2 same race, i think:
bw p > sc2 p bw t > sc2 t bw z < sc2 z.
also, ffs just remake BW.
Literally no one who actually plays BW wants this. Remastered was perfect
no one who actually plays BW belives that remastered is perfect, in fact i belive that SB is way better than b.net, so was fish, so was iccup, so was pgtour, so was wgtour, so was game-i, so was the abyss, neo game-i even fucking hamachi games were better than remastered ladder
On May 11 2024 01:33 iRkSupperman wrote:
You seriously undervalue the power of SC2 bio T
i have a really hard time seeing how bio can beat 200 3-3 tank lines
On May 10 2024 20:43 XenOsky wrote: if reavers work 100% of the time and goons are not absolute idiots like in bw, snow is prolly winning this thing.
i really wanna watch mirrors tho... sc1 vs sc2 same race, i think:
bw p > sc2 p bw t > sc2 t bw z < sc2 z.
also, ffs just remake BW.
Literally no one who actually plays BW wants this. Remastered was perfect
no one who actually plays BW belives that remastered is perfect, in fact i belive that SB is way better than b.net, so was fish, so was iccup, so was pgtour, so was wgtour, so was game-i, so was the abyss, neo game-i even fucking hamachi games were better than remastered ladder
On May 10 2024 20:43 XenOsky wrote: if reavers work 100% of the time and goons are not absolute idiots like in bw, snow is prolly winning this thing.
i really wanna watch mirrors tho... sc1 vs sc2 same race, i think:
bw p > sc2 p bw t > sc2 t bw z < sc2 z.
also, ffs just remake BW.
Literally no one who actually plays BW wants this. Remastered was perfect
other than half finished turn rate system making anyone playing outside of korea have terrible experience, no promised features pre-launch actually being fullfilled like 2v2, clan system, ect, rampant with bugs in UI that can crash games because you are on different gateway while whispering.
There is macro movement while SC2 is only back and forth between two bases, game looks friendly specially in using spells, fights last longer, game is relaxing for eyes.
This is a good example of how strong maelstrom vs. Z with the easier SC2 UI
Along with the more powerful psi storm...
I don't know if this is a great showcase, the zerg played really weirdly, he didn't get speed at all, expanded very slowly and stayed on a low unit count for a long time, SC2 races have a faster and stronger early game, a baneling bust would have ended that pretty fast.
This is a good example of how strong maelstrom vs. Z with the easier SC2 UI
Along with the more powerful psi storm...
I don't know if this is a great showcase, the zerg played really weirdly, he didn't get speed at all, expanded very slowly and stayed on a low unit count for a long time, SC2 races have a faster and stronger early game, a baneling bust would have ended that pretty fast.
I mean it seems really hard to keep all these 6 races (i just understand now that they allow you to play all races) Then, they will probably add to SC:BW, all good ideas of SC2 (it can be more interesting from SC2 to SC:BW).
Like Medivacs, Banelings, Marauders, Phoenix spell, etc.... (Medivacs has been added already), so there aren t banelings in the video that you looked.
Also if there is problem with 'too many banelings tasteless....' they have to change his supply from 0.5 to 1 and increase his hit points to allow better chance of collision. That s all...
To my mind, it will be impossible to balance 6 races, so only one race could eventually be added (ultimate goal) after releasing 3 races resulting from a mix between each races of SC2 and SC:bw
I don't really think it's interesting because everything that makes bw great isnt there (muta micro, patrol micro, moving shots, none of it is possible in the sc2 client)
On May 11 2024 19:22 Comedy wrote: I don't really think it's interesting because everything that makes bw great isnt there (muta micro, patrol micro, moving shots, none of it is possible in the sc2 client)
You mean it s fun to have a spell that force you to split mutalisks because the air pathfinding has been over-simplified ?
kappa
I can agree actually BW is more interesting than SC2 (it s more a question of generation in fact), but it s too soon to disapprove their mod while they obviously made a significant work. SC:BW AND SC2 worked out, the only question is to create something friendly for users, not too much focused on intense micro and competition which is an issue in SC2 or being not enought flexible like the pathfinding in BW
Anyway, SC2 is so boring now because every engagements are the same that it sn t hard to find something more appealing in BW.
If you check the other videos in that channel I posted, you'll see others. Including Gumiho vs. Mini, Gumiho vs. MC (MC playing BW toss).
Here's gumi vs. Mini: link note for whatever reason he introduces Mini and shows gumiho's picture at the start, but you can hear his "ASL season 12 champion"
In that playlist you can see more. Although if you can't read Hangeul it's a little difficult to navigate... and looking back through the videos, it's hard for me to remember who was playing also, lol.
I rolled my eyes at first when I heard about it, but it does seem pretty fun.
Surprisingly doesn't seem to unbalanced yet also from watching the videos, but one SC1 T vs SC2 T was brutal - SC2 bio ran over SC1 mech.
I was also surprised that PvP was interesting (corsairs vs. phoenix, eventually SC1 carrier vs. SC2 carrier etc.)
On May 11 2024 19:22 Comedy wrote: I don't really think it's interesting because everything that makes bw great isnt there (muta micro, patrol micro, moving shots, none of it is possible in the sc2 client)
You mean it s fun to have a spell that force you to split mutalisks because the air pathfinding has been over-simplified ?
kappa
I can agree actually BW is more interesting than SC2 (it s more a question of generation in fact), but it s too soon to disapprove their mod while they obviously made a significant work. SC:BW AND SC2 worked out, the only question is to create something friendly for users, not too much focused on intense micro and competition which is an issue in SC2 or being not enought flexible like the pathfinding in BW
Anyway, SC2 is so boring now because every engagements are the same that it sn t hard to find something more appealing in BW.
I hope for Mutas that they increase the attack range. When I tested it in the editor a range of 4.5 feels pretty good as it gives much better "dive in --> dive out" opportunities than its current 3 range. And I think that somewhat replicates it's micro potential in BW.
i watched some games of this (from bw perspective) and it felt really weird, the pacing feels off cus the mining speed is super fast and sc2 units have way more mobility
some of the bw graphics look really nice tho (but storm should be way more clear imo)
On May 11 2024 19:22 Comedy wrote: I don't really think it's interesting because everything that makes bw great isnt there (muta micro, patrol micro, moving shots, none of it is possible in the sc2 client)
You mean it s fun to have a spell that force you to split mutalisks because the air pathfinding has been over-simplified ?
kappa
I can agree actually BW is more interesting than SC2 (it s more a question of generation in fact), but it s too soon to disapprove their mod while they obviously made a significant work. SC:BW AND SC2 worked out, the only question is to create something friendly for users, not too much focused on intense micro and competition which is an issue in SC2 or being not enought flexible like the pathfinding in BW
Anyway, SC2 is so boring now because every engagements are the same that it sn t hard to find something more appealing in BW.
I hope for Mutas that they increase the attack range. When I tested it in the editor a range of 4.5 feels pretty good as it gives much better "dive in --> dive out" opportunities than its current 3 range. And I think that somewhat replicates it's micro potential in BW.
Indeed, it makes sense
On May 12 2024 00:41 TT1 wrote: i watched some games of this (from bw perspective) and it felt really weird, the pacing feels off cus the mining speed is super fast and sc2 units have way more mobility
some of the bw graphics look really nice tho (but storm should be way more clear imo)
Naah storms are more easy to read like that. (because you can check which units are under storms)
I wonder if when they ported BW units they addressed not only damage and attack speed but also damage point, the smoothness of SC2 control makes the clunky BW units really strong in straight up fights.
On May 13 2024 03:06 SoleSteeler wrote: I think the games shown on that channel are more just fun, not exactly high level.
This match uploaded today is pretty good though! SC2 T (GSL player) vs. SC1 Z (ASL player).
I didn't realize BW lings are actually stronger than SC2 lings.
I don't know why they don't just say who it is -_-;;
Devil is hidden in the detail. I m thinking zerglings skill burrow shouldn t be visible on surface by the opponent point of view. I mean, they are sneaky, i can understand ultralisks are visible, but those cute tiny monsters must be able to hide easily.
I wonder if when they ported BW units they addressed not only damage and attack speed but also damage point, the smoothness of SC2 control makes the clunky BW units really strong in straight up fights.
I asked on discord if they balance units with unit balance testers and they say no, they are studying scenari and if they detect a flaw they fix it. It s probably a fun tournament, hope they will keep on good work
I think balancing this mod is gonna be insanely hard just because of how strong SC2 macro mechanics are and how much mobility SC2 races have, there's just way too many variables to make things work by adjusting unit stats and such.
Instead it might be cool to make a 3rd version and mix BW/SC2 units to create new/updated races. You could remove undesirable/redundant elements of SC2 and BW (once combined) and keep the desirable stuff, i think something like that has a lot of potential to be really really fun.
For example you could nerf harass/instant kill units by replacing them with BW units, like removing the Colossus and Disruptor and replacing them with the Reaver. You could swap Stalkers with Goons. You could nerf the special abilities of each race, for example u can remove warpgate but buff chrono boost (but i'd keep sc2 recall in favor of Arbs for example because Arb stasis would be broken in SC2, can't really add super strong aoe spells like stasis/maelstrom in SC2), you could nerf larva inject and creep spread/nydus (by forcing nydus to be on creep only). I'd keep SC2 HTS but buff storm to compensate for no warpgate etc.
You could remove Speedvac (but keep Medivacs over Medics, it has better synergy) but have an upgrade for Medivac speed increase (basically something similar to Shuttle/Warpprism speed upg), maybe replace Hellion and Widow Mine with the Firebat and Vulture (but it would need to be reworked because the SC2 Vulture isn't that good as is), definitely remove Liberator, maybe replace Cyclone with Gol, keep sc2 Siege Tank design etc. There's a ton of possibilities to create something special/fun.
TLDR: try to reduce the amount of units/spells/harass/instant kill stuff and slow the game pace down a bit, take elements of SC2 and BW to create a fun hybrid
I think Colossus can t break a tank frontline, but it doesn t mean that they have to be removed. The design of colossus is superb (With banelings and medivacs, it s the three good addition in the WoL and HotS Era) and it s part of the work to replace this awesome unit against roachs or tanks (because colossus not worth it against tanks (not sure for roachs) mechanical bonus with laser ?).
Recently i understand Protoss is gimmicky because they are too much dependant of their spells and how it makes the race not appealing. If yu completely remove stalkers (which are symbol of competition like 'marines split skill'), then you also erase a little bit more the interest of SC2 protoss (be sure i m in favor of a slower game with more strategy than a game with just execution); so to handle a tweak on stalkers you can increase their supply from 2 to 3 and switch their armored bonus damage to light (in order to fit their role to harassement)
Your comment make me think that if i agree on the fact that arbiter will be too strong, then what if arbiter would be merge with the mothershipcore and get the ability to teleport unit close to him ? (arbiter would be unique)
Larva/Tumors spell need to be clearly designed to fit a strategy depending of the map. Nydus network would be a spell thrown by infestator (with a limited distance - like worm dune)
Add speedvac upgrade is ok Hellion/mine replace by firebat/vulture (or stinger with mine why not ??????) ok
You can remove cyclone (such a fake good idea....) by a mix Goliath/Thor (aiming missile)
Liberator, i don t know, i hear a lot of complains and it s true that it s too strong as liberators can be strong in the battlefield and as a harassement weapon. Need some suggestion for replacement
In most majrity of cases, we agree on zerg/terran points but usually it s the protoss race that might be a problem in an eventual mix between SC:BW and SC2
To summarize, i disagree with the addition of the reaver to SC2 protoss because infestator design really fit well the zerg race, then my main idea would be to change the disruptor to a 'stormgate catapult' (looks like to your idea with reaver but in the air). Then Time warp can be switch from mothership core to oracle and stasis from oracle to arbiter.
Maybe you can insert a battery shield in warprism, (last idea)
The event will be stream on Youtube (its 1.5hrs earlier than normal GSL time) , and will have a 4v4 match, then 2 Bo5 team-format where each team will play their SC1 vs SC2 and reversed.
Team A: Cure Snow Soulkey TY Team B: Action Classic Dark Mini.
On May 14 2024 10:53 TT1 wrote: I think balancing this mod is gonna be insanely hard just because of how strong SC2 macro mechanics are and how much mobility SC2 races have, there's just way too many variables to make things work by adjusting unit stats and such.
Instead it might be cool to make a 3rd version and mix BW/SC2 units to create new/updated races. You could remove undesirable/redundant elements of SC2 and BW (once combined) and keep the desirable stuff, i think something like that has a lot of potential to be really really fun.
For example you could nerf harass/instant kill units by replacing them with BW units, like removing the Colossus and Disruptor and replacing them with the Reaver. You could swap Stalkers with Goons. You could nerf the special abilities of each race, for example u can remove warpgate but buff chrono boost (but i'd keep sc2 recall in favor of Arbs for example because Arb stasis would be broken in SC2, can't really add super strong aoe spells like stasis/maelstrom in SC2), you could nerf larva inject and creep spread/nydus (by forcing nydus to be on creep only). I'd keep SC2 HTS but buff storm to compensate for no warpgate etc.
You could remove Speedvac (but keep Medivacs over Medics, it has better synergy) but have an upgrade for Medivac speed increase (basically something similar to Shuttle/Warpprism speed upg), maybe replace Hellion and Widow Mine with the Firebat and Vulture (but it would need to be reworked because the SC2 Vulture isn't that good as is), definitely remove Liberator, maybe replace Cyclone with Gol, keep sc2 Siege Tank design etc. There's a ton of possibilities to create something special/fun.
TLDR: try to reduce the amount of units/spells/harass/instant kill stuff and slow the game pace down a bit, take elements of SC2 and BW to create a fun hybrid
Isnt there a sc2 mod doing this ? I forgot the name.
On May 14 2024 10:53 TT1 wrote: I think balancing this mod is gonna be insanely hard just because of how strong SC2 macro mechanics are and how much mobility SC2 races have, there's just way too many variables to make things work by adjusting unit stats and such.
Instead it might be cool to make a 3rd version and mix BW/SC2 units to create new/updated races. You could remove undesirable/redundant elements of SC2 and BW (once combined) and keep the desirable stuff, i think something like that has a lot of potential to be really really fun.
For example you could nerf harass/instant kill units by replacing them with BW units, like removing the Colossus and Disruptor and replacing them with the Reaver. You could swap Stalkers with Goons. You could nerf the special abilities of each race, for example u can remove warpgate but buff chrono boost (but i'd keep sc2 recall in favor of Arbs for example because Arb stasis would be broken in SC2, can't really add super strong aoe spells like stasis/maelstrom in SC2), you could nerf larva inject and creep spread/nydus (by forcing nydus to be on creep only). I'd keep SC2 HTS but buff storm to compensate for no warpgate etc.
You could remove Speedvac (but keep Medivacs over Medics, it has better synergy) but have an upgrade for Medivac speed increase (basically something similar to Shuttle/Warpprism speed upg), maybe replace Hellion and Widow Mine with the Firebat and Vulture (but it would need to be reworked because the SC2 Vulture isn't that good as is), definitely remove Liberator, maybe replace Cyclone with Gol, keep sc2 Siege Tank design etc. There's a ton of possibilities to create something special/fun.
TLDR: try to reduce the amount of units/spells/harass/instant kill stuff and slow the game pace down a bit, take elements of SC2 and BW to create a fun hybrid
Isnt there a sc2 mod doing this ? I forgot the name.
i remember there was something called Starbow but that was like 10-12 years ago, dunno if it's still around
but anyways what im talking about would take a lot of experimentation to find the right balance of unit mixes/tinkering of abilities etc.
This one was good from today, specifically the 2nd round (MC vs. SHIN/Ragnarok). First round Light vs. Nightmare, not as much. (but it does show if a BW cheese is effective in SC2)
On May 14 2024 10:53 TT1 wrote: I think balancing this mod is gonna be insanely hard just because of how strong SC2 macro mechanics are and how much mobility SC2 races have, there's just way too many variables to make things work by adjusting unit stats and such.
I don't think there's a way to make aggressive balance changes without altering the original BW or SC2 race identities so much that you defeat the original purpose of this mod. So much of the enjoyment comes from the fact that it's tethered to BW/SC2 in a very clear way, and I'd be REALLY impressed if it could succeed after changing so much that it starts to feel like its own 'separate' game.
I think it's kinda fated to be the content creator flavor of the week, and most of the fun is in the stage before it gets figured out. Would love to be wrong tho, since so much of Blizzard RTS legacy is in the derivative/mod works that came out of them.
Early impression show that SC1 race has no quick counter against Libs/Viking. Reaver is doing the work as expected, and I like the commercial so far. :D
Don't really care about balance too too much tbh. Game has 3 races in two variants, thats more than enough to be more focused on fun and less pinpoint balance
Pretty fun match. Too bad no one in NA is playing this. Not a single lobby being hosted last I checked. Korea knows how to party. Blizzard intern should make a ladder for this. Microsoft team said they are open to developing more StarCraft games, just needs a team to prevent a vision for it. This is that vision. Hell, even add a 4th race if u wanna spice things up. Add a unit draft so u can pick a custom army with a mix of SC1 and SC2 units. So much potential...
That was very fun to watch, hopefully they tone down the overperforming units. I really hope they continue to do this, maybe make it a bonafide team league and have like 6+ teams of combined SC1 and SC2 pros working together.
Matches were really entertaining and I know sc2 is really favored early-mid but I thought TY went bit too cute trying to get early game wins. He should have had best bw/sc2 balance out of lot and he went 1-5
On May 16 2024 02:26 jinjin5000 wrote: Matches were really entertaining and I know sc2 is really favored early-mid but I thought TY went bit too cute trying to get early game wins. He should have had best bw/sc2 balance out of lot and he went 1-5
soulkey is both sc1 and sc2 champion, why he didn't play aces?
On May 16 2024 02:26 jinjin5000 wrote: Matches were really entertaining and I know sc2 is really favored early-mid but I thought TY went bit too cute trying to get early game wins. He should have had best bw/sc2 balance out of lot and he went 1-5
soulkey is both sc1 and sc2 champion, why he didn't play aces?
Soulkey hasnt played sc2 as recently. TY definitely had best "balance" out of all of them. Knowledge in SC1, played SC2 until very recently, familiar with sc2 UI and unit interactions.
IMO he should have exploited more 2 base stuff when on sc2 side rather than going 1 base every game, but that marine medic SCV tank timing was pretty great as it only showed advantages of SC1 terran side rather than their weakness midgame.
On May 16 2024 02:26 jinjin5000 wrote: Matches were really entertaining and I know sc2 is really favored early-mid but I thought TY went bit too cute trying to get early game wins. He should have had best bw/sc2 balance out of lot and he went 1-5
soulkey is both sc1 and sc2 champion, why he didn't play aces?
Soulkey hasnt played sc2 as recently. TY definitely had best "balance" out of all of them. Knowledge in SC1, played SC2 until very recently, familiar with sc2 UI and unit interactions.
IMO he should have exploited more 2 base stuff when on sc2 side rather than going 1 base every game, but that marine medic SCV tank timing was pretty great as it only showed advantages of SC1 terran side rather than their weakness midgame.
Iirc TY also competed on ASL last season (didnt make it to r16 but eliminated JD before getting eliminated). And I believe he still plays sc2 pro.
On May 16 2024 02:26 jinjin5000 wrote: Matches were really entertaining and I know sc2 is really favored early-mid but I thought TY went bit too cute trying to get early game wins. He should have had best bw/sc2 balance out of lot and he went 1-5
soulkey is both sc1 and sc2 champion, why he didn't play aces?
Soulkey hasnt played sc2 as recently. TY definitely had best "balance" out of all of them. Knowledge in SC1, played SC2 until very recently, familiar with sc2 UI and unit interactions.
IMO he should have exploited more 2 base stuff when on sc2 side rather than going 1 base every game, but that marine medic SCV tank timing was pretty great as it only showed advantages of SC1 terran side rather than their weakness midgame.
Iirc TY also competed on ASL last season (didnt make it to r16 but eliminated JD before getting eliminated). And I believe he still plays sc2 pro.
He retired from sc2 effective immediately after his ro16 gsl exit, he is now purely focused on bw
On May 17 2024 00:16 Fango wrote: TY is still probably the only guy still S rank in both BW and SC2 right? He should have definitely been the ace player
Soulkey the best BW+SC2 player of the bunch all time but he basically never played LoTV
Ngl I personally would always go Soulkey, especially in his current form, but I'm also really bad about underrating TY
On May 17 2024 00:16 Fango wrote: TY is still probably the only guy still S rank in both BW and SC2 right? He should have definitely been the ace player
Soulkey the best BW+SC2 player of the bunch all time but he basically never played LoTV
most of the sc2 pros were bw pros before. All of them could hit gm/s rank lol. Soo was top ranked ladder on BW as well
Great fun as an event for sure, I’m not sure I want a huge amount more if it as it feels it would quickly work out as pretty broken in certain matchups it folks actually worked to figure it out.
But as talented players spitballing for a bit of craic, excellent stuff!
On May 17 2024 00:16 Fango wrote: TY is still probably the only guy still S rank in both BW and SC2 right? He should have definitely been the ace player
Soulkey the best BW+SC2 player of the bunch all time but he basically never played LoTV
most of the sc2 pros were bw pros before. All of them could hit gm/s rank lol. Soo was top ranked ladder on BW as well
Well yeah they could all hit GM/S rank in their sleep if they tried, but other than TY I doubt any of them are currently.
TY is the only guy who's qualified for both ASL and GSL most recent seasons. The rest of the guys have only competed in one of them for a decade or longer
I started to watch it out of boredom not expecting much but once I understood the format after the hunters it was a 10/10 entertainment and lot more serious theorycrafting than I ever hoped.
The teams were not quite balanced but all the better to root for the underdogs! It was interesting to see how bored or tired ty looked at some inserts, and it must have been tough to play that many games.
The sc2 engine also faired better than I thought it would go. One question about this: Does a similar mode exist on the bw engine?
If it works and it is playable with the sc2 races then we could have the ultimatesupermetamatch where a Bo3 is played with game 1 being a Bo3 on Sc2 and game 2 being a Bo3 on Bw.
On June 07 2024 16:41 nimdil wrote: Is this SC1 vs SC2 thing considered remotely balance or is it just fun thing?
I don't really think that you can balance a mod, especially when the units are totally different. But it's fun for sure!
My dream of this tournament was like this: SC2 players play BW against each other, meanwhie BW pros try SC2 vs. other BW pros. It makes sense and might bring a lot more attention to both games. But this showmatch isn't bad either, I hope more to come.
EPT
