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Why are there no 4v4 tournaments?

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Woosixion
Profile Joined February 2012
120 Posts
March 08 2024 15:08 GMT
#1
I always thought it was weird that all of these 'team' leagues are just a bunch 1v1s... what about an actual team league? they used to do it in BW why not in sc2?
the only way out is through...
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1172 Posts
March 08 2024 15:14 GMT
#2
The game isn't balanced for these kind of game-modes. It is actually not even really balanced for 2v2. Also popularity I guess.

But, and this also goes for the "More than one"-post: Who the frick is "they"? If you want a 4v4 tournament, organize one. Will you get Serral and Maru for it? No, of course not. But if you think there is a market for it, you might find some better players for it. Or try to push the idea with a content creator of your choice that you think would be open for it.
That's literally how Warcraft 3 runs its tournaments today and there you actually get 4v4 tourneys and other fun stuff like that.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
Philippe
Profile Joined October 2020
351 Posts
March 08 2024 15:18 GMT
#3
I might pay to watch 1v1s, but SC2 has never been built with team games in mind. That balance should have been made in 2010.
I'm just a cynical video game enjoyer who is probably unfazed by many business dealings many would find utterly distasteful, while not strictly illegal by the law as seen in a general sense in the world.
Woosixion
Profile Joined February 2012
120 Posts
March 08 2024 15:21 GMT
#4
On March 09 2024 00:14 Balnazza wrote:
The game isn't balanced for these kind of game-modes. It is actually not even really balanced for 2v2. Also popularity I guess.

But, and this also goes for the "More than one"-post: Who the frick is "they"? If you want a 4v4 tournament, organize one. Will you get Serral and Maru for it? No, of course not. But if you think there is a market for it, you might find some better players for it. Or try to push the idea with a content creator of your choice that you think would be open for it.
That's literally how Warcraft 3 runs its tournaments today and there you actually get 4v4 tourneys and other fun stuff like that.


Doesnt that mean the game is inherently imbalanced? instead of the balance council balancing around the top 3 players maybe they should look into why teamplay is so broken

they meaning the ppl that organize tournaments, wtl and wardi and co... i dont have the knowledge or the resources to organize a tourney but id like to see it. Who knows, maybe serral is a acutally a 4v4 gawd and never had the opportunity to strut his stuff

the only way out is through...
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1172 Posts
March 08 2024 15:38 GMT
#5
On March 09 2024 00:21 Woosixion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2024 00:14 Balnazza wrote:
The game isn't balanced for these kind of game-modes. It is actually not even really balanced for 2v2. Also popularity I guess.

But, and this also goes for the "More than one"-post: Who the frick is "they"? If you want a 4v4 tournament, organize one. Will you get Serral and Maru for it? No, of course not. But if you think there is a market for it, you might find some better players for it. Or try to push the idea with a content creator of your choice that you think would be open for it.
That's literally how Warcraft 3 runs its tournaments today and there you actually get 4v4 tourneys and other fun stuff like that.


Doesnt that mean the game is inherently imbalanced? instead of the balance council balancing around the top 3 players maybe they should look into why teamplay is so broken

they meaning the ppl that organize tournaments, wtl and wardi and co... i dont have the knowledge or the resources to organize a tourney but id like to see it. Who knows, maybe serral is a acutally a 4v4 gawd and never had the opportunity to strut his stuff



Why would you balance the game around a game-mode "no one" plays? Potentially hurting the games core game-mode in the process? It works out in AoE 2 because the game is so much slower, leaving more room to get into the later stages of the game (and also there are actual mechanics in the game to support teamplay), but even in WC3, which greatly improves with the heroes, everything beyond 2v2 is just whacky.

"They" don't organize these tournaments because they don't bring in the money. People don't really want to see it. Also it is much harder to get together a big prizepool for a 4v4 tournament compared to 1v1. If you have four teams, that already equals a 16-player 1v1 tournament. But instead of 50 games, you get only four (or something like that) to stream. If you wanted a 16-team tournament, you would need 64 players - and all of them want to get paid for their time.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
watchlulu
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany474 Posts
March 08 2024 15:47 GMT
#6
Most PCs don't even run 4vs4 smoothly :D
Have a nice day!
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
March 08 2024 20:43 GMT
#7
It takes me on average somewhere around 5-7 minutes of being in queue to find a 4v4 match on the NA ladder. That's how unpopular the game mode is.

That probably has a lot to do with it. Never mind the fact that the game has never been designed or balanced around team games.

Also personally I think high level 4v4 games would be INCREDIBLY boring to watch.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Fighter
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1531 Posts
March 09 2024 17:30 GMT
#8
You used to occasionally see show matches at the beginning/end of tournaments where they'd randomly get 8 pros and do a 4v4. No one took them seriously but they were usually fun.
For Aiur???
AmFreak
Profile Joined July 2012
16 Posts
March 09 2024 20:39 GMT
#9
As OP said there were tons of team games in Bw and this was also not balanced with team games in mind.
The big difference to Bw is that the custom game system prevents any non ladder maps to be played and this in combination with the worst maps imaginable in the 3v3 and 4v4 pool kills every ambition. Team games should be about constant action and map control instead these maps are worse versions of 1v1 maps with 3-4 player blobs. Like all players are in the same starting location and often have 2 free expansions. They reward turtling to air with no risks taken because of that (+ the map design/terrain itself). Toss is played far above the 33% random distribution and going air is the standard (only) way for most of them. It's the opposite of the most popular 3v3 Bw map - BGH/Hunters. It really can't be overstated how bad these maps are, it's like they think anyone playing team games is a brain dead ape. You can find master players that fall completely apart the moment they can't play their standard turtling air stuff, because they wouldn't even reach diamond in 1v1.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25258 Posts
March 09 2024 20:48 GMT
#10
On March 10 2024 05:39 AmFreak wrote:
As OP said there were tons of team games in Bw and this was also not balanced with team games in mind.
The big difference to Bw is that the custom game system prevents any non ladder maps to be played and this in combination with the worst maps imaginable in the 3v3 and 4v4 pool kills every ambition. Team games should be about constant action and map control instead these maps are worse versions of 1v1 maps with 3-4 player blobs. Like all players are in the same starting location and often have 2 free expansions. They reward turtling to air with no risks taken because of that (+ the map design/terrain itself). Toss is played far above the 33% random distribution and going air is the standard (only) way for most of them. It's the opposite of the most popular 3v3 Bw map - BGH/Hunters. It really can't be overstated how bad these maps are, it's like they think anyone playing team games is a brain dead ape. You can find master players that fall completely apart the moment they can't play their standard turtling air stuff, because they wouldn't even reach diamond in 1v1.

Yeah this definitely tracks
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Starcloud
Profile Joined September 2018
137 Posts
March 10 2024 20:02 GMT
#11
I think 2v2 can be pretty interesting and fun to watch. They can be very action-packed and have different strategies in most games.

I also like to play 3v3 and 4v4 occasionally. However it is usually quite impossible to enjoy those in longer sessions, since;

- 80% of players play protoss
- 90% of those protosses turtle with cannons to mass air every game
- The other 10% do cannon rushes
- 50% of zergs go mass mutas and 50% early ling flood

----> terran is the most "interesting" race of all
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