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Mexico2170 Posts
Today, I’m going to dispel once and for all the myth that Zerg requires the most apm to play, a myth that has plagued the game for years, with some people even saying Zerg is the hardest race due to APM.
This is not a post about balance, but rather perception and game mechanics.
This myth is based around the fact that Zerg players in the same league as players from other races, consistently show more APM in the score screen. This holds true from very low leagues to professional games, and it is an indisputable fact.
However, today I come to tell you that the score screen is a lie. And that not only does Zerg not require more apm than other races, but literally gifts you more apm just by playing the race ,without any extra effort. That’s right, playing zerg gives you more apm without any change of skill on your part.
How is this possible? you might ask.
The answer is simple: The way the game counts the APM it takes to perform Zerg game mechanics.
For a long time many people have claimed Zerg requires the most apm because you need to inject frequently. But in truth, this is not very different from Protoss having to chronoboost or terrans scanning and using mules. All 3 major macromechanics require 2 clicks each, one to use the ability and the second on where to click it. Inject larva does have a shorter “cooldown” than Chronoboost and mules/scans, but the other races compensate that with having to use their APM to micro units, use abilities, and manag/build multiple buildings, which zerg barely has to do. So while Zerg macro does have it's difficulties in keeping track of inyects and expanding creep, a lot of it is compensated by easier to use units, and other races having to manage more things in their bases. For example, just selecting 1 probe, making it build a pylon and then sending it to do something else is already more APM intensive than selecting a drone and creating a building; a small difference of at least 1 action (sometimes more) that adds up over time.
But what if I told you there is a Zerg mechanic that gives players impossible amounts of APM that unfairly boost their average?
Take a look at this screenshot of me playing Zerg. Ignore average APM (we’ll get to why later). See my current APM and EPM
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Ku12aH3.jpg)
Now, see my current APM and EPM at a slightly different point in the game
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ZItGGnL.jpg)
Am I a Starcraft god? Am I a hacker? Am I using rapidfire? Binded a hotkey to my mouse wheel?
No. I’m just making zerglings, without macros, special hotkeys or anything weird. I literally just selected 3 of my hatcheries that were injected, and created a bunch of zerglings. A perfectly normal situation that will happen every game.
The reason I told you to ignore the average APM is because I stopped taking any action for more than a minute before producing units, just to test the exact amount of APM making units from larva gives you. I discovered this while watching a replay of a terrible Zerg and noticing that at some points he had 1500 apm and 900+ EPM.
This is easily replicable too. Just go into a game, get 3-4 hatcheries and inject each one. Wait for the larva to come out. Now the process begins: Select all hatcheries, press “S” then “D” and put a rally point. 4 actions that will result in 1k+ apm. Now imagine how much more APM you would have if you performed actions before doing that (unlike me) and they added to the average APM you had. It’s not even like I made 200/200 zerglings either, I just made a normal amount of lings any zerg would make while remaxing.
This is a real situation that happens basically every game, multiple times per game. The other races don’t have any way whatsoever to get 1k+ apm unless using some kind of cheat way like camera jumping, or binding hotkeys to the mouse scroll wheel. You don’t even need 3-4 hatcheries for this to get ridiculous. Already with 2 hatcheries you can get 200-400 extra apm so the boosts come pretty early.
Imagine how much your average Actions Per Minute get boosted when you get 300-1100 apm boosts twice a minute for pressing 2 keys?
What does that do to your average over the course of a game? If anything it would be interesting to know how much actual APM Zerg takes if their APM from production wasn't absurd.
This post intent is not balance, but merely to dispell the myth that playing Zerg requires more APM. Every random player will be able to verify that the race that they have the most APM with is Zerg, and now we know why.
So next time you lose against someone and you see you have 80+ apm more than your oponent…maybe it’s not because they are playing an ez race. Maybe you’re just playing Zerg.
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As an additional note, while I was doing my testing it appears apm is bugged?
In this screenshot I literally stopped playing for 1 minute so my current apm was 0, then performed 1 action: Selected a Zergling.
And yet isntead of having 1 current apm, I have 17 for some reason.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/SWYSOSa.jpg)
In a separate instance, I stopped playing for 1 minute and then performed two actions
1.-Selected the zerglings
2.-Clicked on the ground once so the zerglings moved.
And yet, instead of having 2 current apm I have 34 and EMP I had 17.
So APM isn’t really showing the real apm you have, and EPM isn’t showing it either.
So either the game is taking those 2 actions I did, measuring the time between them, and creating an estimate of “if you keep doing those actions in that rhythm in 1 minute you would have X amount of APM”, which would make the APM/EPM incredibly misleading, or there is a bug, or the number of units you select affect the APM you get.
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Why is every Single thread you start a wall if text that basically can be sumarised with
"Terran is way harder than the other two races. I deserve a medal for just clicking on the Terran logo before joining the ladder."
Stop it please
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On March 09 2023 14:03 dbRic1203 wrote:
Why is every Single thread you start a wall if text that basically can be sumarised with
"Terran is way harder than the other two races. I deserve a medal for just clicking on the Terran logo before joining the ladder."
Stop it please
Doesn't phantom play protoss?
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This is Fox News-level propaganda...I heartily approve!
*Chef's Kiss*
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On March 09 2023 14:59 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2023 14:03 dbRic1203 wrote:
Why is every Single thread you start a wall if text that basically can be sumarised with
"Terran is way harder than the other two races. I deserve a medal for just clicking on the Terran logo before joining the ladder."
Stop it please Doesn't phantom play protoss?
I don t know, his rants just smell like Terran Tears to me I gues.
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On March 09 2023 15:58 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2023 14:59 StasisField wrote:On March 09 2023 14:03 dbRic1203 wrote:
Why is every Single thread you start a wall if text that basically can be sumarised with
"Terran is way harder than the other two races. I deserve a medal for just clicking on the Terran logo before joining the ladder."
Stop it please Doesn't phantom play protoss? I don t know, his rants just smell like Terran Tears to me I gues.
Probably be cause you know the truth that Terran actually require more APM.
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did not read because of Phantom
5/7 anyways nice pictures
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its not a myth even pro gamers agree, its also why the fastest player "reynor" is zerg. that's not to say the other races are easy or slow. Terran is very micro intensive and its why byun has those wrist injuries most likely, compounded by the fact that he has a very micro intensive play style. (constantly being on the map, dropping everywhere trying to pull his opponents apart.) but also worth noting, in order for his opponents to keep up with his multitasking, they must also play just as fast. Not many can, and thats one of the reasons he has so much success.
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Thought this is common knowledge, why make a thread about this?
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Zerg APM inflation is common knowledge, and only a complete idiot thinks that there is a direct correlation between APM and skill/difficulty.
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This isn't a myth, everyone knows this.
People haven't looked at APM as a measure of anything in like 8 years
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On March 09 2023 19:59 InfCereal wrote:
This isn't a myth, everyone knows this.
People haven't looked at APM as a measure of anything in like 8 years
its Phantom. He loves to troll zerg players
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Who has said that Zerg takes the most APM to play? I am a masters zerg, and always assumed terran was the most APM intensive. Also that doesn't matter.
I see pros at the top level learning other races, and while I would say that zerg and terran players seem to get up to a high skill level with protoss easier than the other races, I see all races able to get pretty high with all of the others, and none of them able to surpass their main race skill off-racing, so big picture the evidence is that all races are basically equally hard to play, at the highest level at least.
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On March 09 2023 14:03 dbRic1203 wrote:
Why is every Single thread you start a wall if text that basically can be sumarised with
"Terran is way harder than the other two races. I deserve a medal for just clicking on the Terran logo before joining the ladder."
Stop it please
Say what you want , what he says is true. Can't confirm the bug he mentions but everything else is factual.
As for people talking about who is the fastest pro gamer out there, it's very hard to calculate because even players like Reynor who jump between screens insanely fast, you have other factors from other races where they actually have to do more deliberate actions with each screen jump and have more active units, Zerg is the most apm friendly race of the three so it's hard to tell.
Clem, Maru , herO etc are all insanely fast but they play Terran and Protoss and they need to do more actions when jumping between screens compared to a Zerg so it looks very different.
Anyway it is a pretty agreed about that Terran is the hardest most multitask demanding race to play if you want to play certain bio playstyles(mech still isn't legit), Zerg does not even come close, sorry Zerg's but you gonna have to accept this one, your race is kinda easy compared to the other two.
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apm was a popular discussion 2011, now game is small and this topic has been irrelevant for at least 5+ years by now
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On March 09 2023 19:03 MJG wrote:
Zerg APM inflation is common knowledge, and only a complete idiot thinks that there is a direct correlation between APM and skill/difficulty.
I want to second that. Especially the middle part.
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Make Banelings with a supply cost equal to 1. And it could be okay
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United States33208 Posts
I'll keep it open as long as most of the engagement is humor 
Gonna have to close if this goes to actual balance whining
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On March 10 2023 06:03 Waxangel wrote:I'll keep it open as long as most of the engagement is humor Gonna have to close if this goes to actual balance whining
You mean if someone says that a burrowed baneling can kill at least 20 marines if they are all pressed against each other which does approximately 1000 damage ? Or If someone says that viewers can know 10 minutes before if Zerg will certainly lose the game but struggle to avoid dishonor while a terran can hold on this 10 minutes like a tightrope walker.
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Another classic salt post from OP. Nothing to see here folks
Zerg requires the highest apm to play effectively in general macro/micro (maybe not micro since that toss is the hardest if you want to use all the spell effectively)
Terran has the easiest micro in general (but but stutter steps micro)
In big engagements terran army are already pre splits, it’s basically up to the Zerg to engage and break that position
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On March 10 2023 07:24 TossHeroes wrote:
Another classic salt post from OP. Nothing to see here folks
Zerg requires the highest apm to play effectively in general macro/micro (maybe not micro since that toss is the hardest if you want to use all the spell effectively)
Terran has the easiest micro in general (but but stutter steps micro)
In big engagements terran army are already pre splits, it’s basically up to the Zerg to engage and break that position
this^ terran army just shoots faster so it LOOKS like they are doing more, and stim marines move quickly, but it is a fallacy. zerg have the most convoluted macro mechanics. injectin, creep, positioning which no terran doesnt have to do. just sit behind wall and run around with hellions or a medivac lololololololol. if a 6-7k zerg switched to terran, and i mean seriously switched not messed around with their offrace, they would be higher than their main in less than a month. easily.
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I am being serious but i am main terran and when i played protoss i had a harder time controlling army cuz of the amount of control groups i had to utilize.
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Can't help but be prejudiced against this thread considering OP is a well known balance/design whiner concerning Zerg.
Even if it's true, what does it really matter? Are you going to look at Serral and Maru's FPVODS and see a real difference? Who cares if you can spam and artificially inflate APM, it yields no advantages at all and this hasn't even been a popular or even relevant discussion in probably 8 + years.
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show some respect towards one of tl's more renowned writers and thinkers. You at least have to appreciate that he put a lot of effort into making this. Keep it up
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On March 09 2023 15:27 Glorfindelio wrote:
This is Fox News-level propaganda...I heartily approve!
*Chef's Kiss*
I guess if this was in fact a new discovery, the other US propaganda networks would simply just not report on it, if you neglect it, it doesn't exist.
A lot of condescencion in this thread, which ironically make their post worse than the post they're trying to discredit.
Ever since the steal hotkey, hotkeys got introduced I have been having inflated APM, as a Protoss player. But as we all know APM is meaningless, sadly.
I do think the Zerg players are the fastest, they have more to attend to and reaction speed is a huge factor, as the defender. That doesn't necessarily mean that the avg ladder Zerg is faster than the avg ladder Terran though.
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I laughed so hard at the guy saying Phantom is defending Terran it almost cost my job while reading it.
It was a good thread and test IMHO, I knew it was a myth but never tested actually the reasons of it.
Since I never spam APM I take in consideration the APM numbers on the summary after a match only to check if I am improving or not but never as a core like for instance time I was supply cap =P
Thanks for the thread Phantom and the laughs, the moment I read "Zerg" and something against it I was sure the thread was yours, but I love you friend, also thanks a lot for the tips on my open, it helped me improve a lot the early game vs Protoss and Zergs but still failed to hold some all ins lol
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The unstoppable force (Phantom) vs the immovable object (his Zerg axe that, despite being little more than a handle-stump by now, is insufficiently ground).
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On March 10 2023 23:35 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2023 15:27 Glorfindelio wrote:
This is Fox News-level propaganda...I heartily approve!
*Chef's Kiss* I guess if this was in fact a new discovery, the other US propaganda networks would simply just not report on it, if you neglect it, it doesn't exist. A lot of condescencion in this thread, which ironically make their post worse than the post they're trying to discredit. Ever since the steal hotkey, hotkeys got introduced I have been having inflated APM, as a Protoss player. But as we all know APM is meaningless, sadly. I do think the Zerg players are the fastest, they have more to attend to and reaction speed is a huge factor, as the defender. That doesn't necessarily mean that the avg ladder Zerg is faster than the avg ladder Terran though.
Oh I'd heartily agree that mainstream media organizations are awful. Fox just takes the cake as far as willfully distorting reality in subservience to their viewers (i.e. most major hosts mocking the insane election lies privately while advocating for it publicly. Usually it's the other way around, so you have to respect the fidelity to the green.
Then again, since everyone and their mom thinks their opinion holds equal weight and validity these days, you have a plague of conspiracy and mindless worship of personality. But I digress.
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Zerg does require more apm because of injects and creep spread, but zerg's apm is artificially high from mechanics like larva and rapid fire. Troll post though
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This discuss is not a troll, underline it s easy to understand that the required APM between pros and casu/hardcores is to big considering the needs of fun or strategy which maintain the base player and the game alive.
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The APM measurements were interesting when SC2 was released. A year later everyone knew how to inflate APM. Then came EPM. Then inflated EPM...
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United States1804 Posts
So when is this guy gonna start calling people patchzergs?
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EPT
