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On July 06 2022 10:43 Draddition wrote:
In general, focus on something, and REALLY dig into fixing it. Play vs AI to grind things out, get the muscle memory working. Try to remember how you felt about your position in a game at a certain time, and go back to check if that was correct. Similarly for workers. Overall, don't let yourself off easy.
This part right here is very important. I've always been pretty fast at getting to "top" level in games I've taken seriously and whenever I hit my first plateau this is what I do. Pick one thing and focus on that until you feel you've improved significantly on that one thing, and then you can move on to the next. This is not to say you should neglect everything else but just keeping that one thing in mind while you're playing is very important - the same goes for when you're watching replays.
In Starcraft you might still hit your ceiling on mechanics at one point but that shouldn't happen until somewhere in GM probably.
I can also recommend taking a break as Phantom suggested.
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There are no generic tips for improving beyond a certain skill level.
This is true in all aspects of life, not just Starcraft II.
You must be able to identify the most significant errors you make, figure out a way for you to correct them, and finally correct them.
So watch your replays with a critical eye, as if it were someone else playing. Because there are millions of variables and things you can improve, don't focus on micro-errors, but rather on what matters.
If you can't really spot your biggest mistakes or believe they are only mechanical and very hard to improve, accept your current level (or perhaps hire a coach if your Starcraft II league really means a lot to you).
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On July 06 2022 20:17 gleed wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2022 19:21 Spirral wrote:
Take note that everybody else is improving too so if you stay at the same level, it means you are improving, just not faster than the rest of the ladder around your level.
can't confirm this hypothesis. haven't played the game in 10 years, recently picked it up again and looked up some basic BOs and I'm still mid/high masters. player levels in general don't seem to have improved at all.
actually level improved very much, i played in wol hots lotv and got back to lotv again, and the level play improved a lot. To get into master in wol/hots you just needed a builder order, thats right you just know the build order, doesnt matter if you are mechanically gifted or not, you will be masters. Right now everyone in diamond 1 knowns BO pretty well, so to get into masters, you actually have to outplay your opponents mechanically and not just be "guy who knowns BO so he is master"
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On July 07 2022 00:02 dph114 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2022 20:17 gleed wrote:On July 06 2022 19:21 Spirral wrote:
Take note that everybody else is improving too so if you stay at the same level, it means you are improving, just not faster than the rest of the ladder around your level.
can't confirm this hypothesis. haven't played the game in 10 years, recently picked it up again and looked up some basic BOs and I'm still mid/high masters. player levels in general don't seem to have improved at all. actually level improved very much, i played in wol hots lotv and got back to lotv again, and the level play improved a lot. To get into master in wol/hots you just needed a builder order, thats right you just know the build order, doesnt matter if you are mechanically gifted or not, you will be masters. Right now everyone in diamond 1 knowns BO pretty well, so to get into masters, you actually have to outplay your opponents mechanically and not just be "guy who knowns BO so he is master"
For sure. Back in 2013 I went from plat to masters very quickly mainly because I watched some build Naniwa did in one of the dreamhacks (I think it was a very aggressive 3 gate expand vs Zerg or something like that) and beat up a bunch of people on ladder with it. Now I'm playing again after a long hiatus (as Zerg this time), and at my current diamond 1 level most of my games involve some amount of back and forth play with harass, counter attacks, etc. Obviously neither me nor my opponents have good mechanics, but the fact that it's something that matters shows how the level has risen. There are still plenty of games where I or my opponent derp against a build order though.
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Think on what's happening in your screen!
Build orders and repetition yes they're important, but how many times have yo seen pro players on stream completely mess up their build orders and still win? They are constantly evaluating their position, adjusting their army composition and position in order to get an edge over the opponent. I'm mid/high masters and I remember memorizing build orders and consistently ending on Dia 1. it wasn't until I learned what to do with the builds I learned and how my opponent is also trying to counter my build when I realized I needed to improve.
You can also hit masters with pure macro, of course; but the problem that I see the most is people not reacting to what's happening before their eyes and they just suicide their army and then think: "If my macro was better I'd won that fight" instead of asking themselves: "Why did I engage here, or what other alternatives to I have; Did I adjust my build and composition properly based on the information gathered, before that mistake: was I ahead or behind?" etc etc etc.
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On July 06 2022 20:35 Spirral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2022 20:17 gleed wrote:On July 06 2022 19:21 Spirral wrote:
Take note that everybody else is improving too so if you stay at the same level, it means you are improving, just not faster than the rest of the ladder around your level.
can't confirm this hypothesis. haven't played the game in 10 years, recently picked it up again and looked up some basic BOs and I'm still mid/high masters. player levels in general don't seem to have improved at all. The fact that your level didn't drop too much after a break doesn't mean it wouldn't improve if were playing all this time. You may also be especially talented which doesn't make you the average player. To counter your point I am hitting many people on ladder that were mid/high masters for multiple seasons in WoL/HotS, but now they are stuck in D1 for many seasons after coming back to the game, so it is quite opposite to your scenario.
The assumption that skill level in general improves is based on the assumption that every player is consistently practicing.
I don't think many players under GM are really consistently grinding since release, in fact I'm pretty sure the majority of players below GM are just sometimes playing a lot than taking a long break and eventually coming back or just playing sometimes 2-3 hours a week.
I don't think the average skill level of those players really increases like that.
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On July 06 2022 20:35 Spirral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2022 20:17 gleed wrote:On July 06 2022 19:21 Spirral wrote:
Take note that everybody else is improving too so if you stay at the same level, it means you are improving, just not faster than the rest of the ladder around your level.
can't confirm this hypothesis. haven't played the game in 10 years, recently picked it up again and looked up some basic BOs and I'm still mid/high masters. player levels in general don't seem to have improved at all. The fact that your level didn't drop too much after a break doesn't mean it wouldn't improve if were playing all this time. You may also be especially talented which doesn't make you the average player. To counter your point I am hitting many people on ladder that were mid/high masters for multiple seasons in WoL/HotS, but now they are stuck in D1 for many seasons after coming back to the game, so it is quite opposite to your scenario.
yeah, I would be high masters/GM, but that's not what I mean. I mean that relative to my skill level people feel like they are playing at the same skill level as 10 years ago, as opposed to the hypothesis that somehow the whole player base on average has improved by an amount. if it's there I can't feel it at all.
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On July 07 2022 03:15 gleed wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2022 20:35 Spirral wrote:On July 06 2022 20:17 gleed wrote:On July 06 2022 19:21 Spirral wrote:
Take note that everybody else is improving too so if you stay at the same level, it means you are improving, just not faster than the rest of the ladder around your level.
can't confirm this hypothesis. haven't played the game in 10 years, recently picked it up again and looked up some basic BOs and I'm still mid/high masters. player levels in general don't seem to have improved at all. The fact that your level didn't drop too much after a break doesn't mean it wouldn't improve if were playing all this time. You may also be especially talented which doesn't make you the average player. To counter your point I am hitting many people on ladder that were mid/high masters for multiple seasons in WoL/HotS, but now they are stuck in D1 for many seasons after coming back to the game, so it is quite opposite to your scenario. yeah, I would be high masters/GM, but that's not what I mean. I mean that relative to my skill level people feel like they are playing at the same skill level as 10 years ago, as opposed to the hypothesis that somehow the whole player base on average has improved by an amount. if it's there I can't feel it at all.
Does anyone know the "truth" about the skill level of the player base? What is certain is that the level is WAY higher now than early WoL all across the board, but what about the last 5 years? More players have played a longer time now, some players have left, and more the most dedicated might have remained, but there must be at least some new and returning players as well.
Improvement is certainly satisfying, and when it shows on your MMR, it is even better, but the fact that more and more dedication is required became a big problem for me in SC2. My partner HATED whenever i played ladder on tournaments, as I was almost completely cut off from the outside world. Other games and activities are unfortunately much more RL-friendly.
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If you are doing all that people have suggested, it is actually very likely that you hit the limits of where your macro can take you and improvements in macro is small and difficult. So what is left? Micro and game knowledge. I would suggest to not care so much about ranks andstart experimenting more and playing more for "fun". You will likely lose a lot, but conversely will gain a body of knowledge and micro that will boost your skill level.
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Zurich15366 Posts
As has been mentioned in this thread: There is no way you have not improved you skill if you maintained a certain level in SC2 over the past 4 years.
I venture this is true for any MMR, but I happen to know this for 4k Zerg (EU), because that is where I have been pretty much since LotV. And I have drastically improved in skill compared to just 4 years ago - but so has everyone else! The competition in SC2 is nuts, and just to maintain your level you need to constantly improve.
If you have any, watch a replay from yourself from 5 years ago and compare to one from today. Guaranteed you will see you are are playing on a higher skill level now.
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Northern Ireland26998 Posts
@OP/general. How do you improve in other things you do? What works for you? Pretty much everything I’m personally good at I grinded in a lot of hours, especially music with no particular training regime, and just ironed out flaws as I went. Other people benefit from structured training and building from the ground up, with a lot of analysis of their progression as they go. I think both work for different mentalities, albeit I’m less time efficient!
There’s quite a lot of differing approaches in this particular thread, mostly seem valid to me but it’s a matter of which dovetail best with the way you personally learn.
At some point you probably have to grind. Or alternatively watch a lot of Starcraft closely.
Being able to do the mental parsing to know, pretty instantly does x army beat y, and if so how to set up an engage is,
IMO the single most underrated skill in the game.
You can’t make the decision to go for the kill, or when to run away, or when to skirmish to buy time for the next wave if you don’t fundamentally judge engagements well.
If you don’t have that you’re going to naturally plateau at a certain point. If you do, then great!
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The fastest way to improve is switching to protoss
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I don't play the game at all for years and I can be Master 1 after a few days just by experience even with mediocre mechanics, if you want to improve you need to start understanding what is happening in a game and where you are at so you have the best responses to your situation.
Most likely your current biggest problem is you don't get and use the information you are getting in games to a high enough degree and you don't capitalize on that information.
I know diamonds who have GM level mechanics but game understanding of a gold player.
Practice understanding and being aware of your situation in the games you are playing so you can create better and better responses to what your opponents are doing, second option is just do a super strong all inn in every matchup and get GM but have still horrible game sense. That's your only 2 options for higher MMR, your mechanics will improve as you play anyway and are probably high enough to get you to high master already
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On July 07 2022 15:09 zatic wrote:
As has been mentioned in this thread: There is no way you have not improved you skill if you maintained a certain level in SC2 over the past 4 years.
I venture this is true for any MMR, but I happen to know this for 4k Zerg (EU), because that is where I have been pretty much since LotV. And I have drastically improved in skill compared to just 4 years ago - but so has everyone else! The competition in SC2 is nuts, and just to maintain your level you need to constantly improve.
If you have any, watch a replay from yourself from 5 years ago and compare to one from today. Guaranteed you will see you are are playing on a higher skill level now.
Building on this, there is likely a gradual selection for stronger players over time as the total playerbase declines. The more committed to the game you are, the more likely you are a stronger player. This trend can also be seen in competitive Overwatch.
So the distribution of players gradually moves higher in skill over time, in part because everyone is gradually improving, and also in part due to more casual players leaving the game, moving the distribution down in ranking.
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dont feel bad i am diamond 3 lol. i dont think i will get into diamond 2 ever.
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EPT
