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Dr Stetmann's research of protoss artifacts led to great technological innovations, and is what made possible the development of orbital depots: supply depots capable of being dropped from the Hyperion and surviving entry through a world's atmosphere. the wireframe from Starcraft: Ghost appears to show supply depots as having the same thick hydraulic feet and gravity stabilizers shared by the other terran buildings that can float.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Vbt5Bvl.jpg)
we know that supply depots are fitted with hydraulic actuators and receive sufficient power to instantly submerge below the surface of a planet. they already possess the technology to survive high altitude drops onto rough terrain. the base of the outrigger, known as the pad or foot, is powerful enough to reinforce the hull during these high speed landings. all that's missing is the ability to lift off from the ground. if the core modules of supply depots can be safely dropped from space, it stands to reason that upgrades can also be delivered in the same manner. the most effective way of refitting supply depots with the launch system is to improve on existing calldown technology so that it can be included as part of the extra supplies package:
Calldown: Orbital Launch Pad
Cost = 50 energy
The orbital command calls down a launch system which enables a supply depot's gravity boosters and permanently increases its supply limit by 8.
but before we get ahead of ourselves, let's compare the competitive uses and utility of supply units, their strengths & weaknesses
Overlord
+ generates creep
+ transports units
+ powerful scout
+ upgraded to detection
Pylon
+ proxy warp-ins / aggressive potential
+ can block construction of enemy buildings
they pose a huge threat vT. the terran has to dedicate time and army to actively search for pylons on their side of the map
Supply Depot
+ lower / raise
+ upgradable +2 armor
+/- calldown: extra supplies
- cannot be reused for walling
I've marked calldown: extra supplies with a - because the ability incurs a penalty. one less scan, one less MULE
depots #1 and #2 are constructed while T is on 1-base. they are mainly used for blocking lings and adepts, and also aiding in the defense of early-game aggression. however, they can also become a liability against early-game rushes such as ravager all-in. either way, T is forced to build 2 depots at the ramp if they want to have a normal macro game. it doesn't matter that their placement at the ramp can be a disadvantage; they will always be built there. it doesn't feel right that a cheesing Z / P can pick them off for free. you can repair them, ofc, but it's often better to simply let them die and rebuild them at the back of your base. it's usually only worth repairing the reactor at the ramp. with the orbital launch system, terrans would have the option to forego the 1st MULE and save one of these depots from certain destruction. anyway, these early-game shenanigans are all very minor considerations... moving on!
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Ftjl8X2.jpg)
once T is established on more bases, depots #1 and #2 remain useful all game long. it is the last line of defense in base-trade scenarios vP, and the final "oh shit" button should lings flood into the natural. even if you could, would you really want to lift them, place them elsewhere? perhaps not... but it would be interesting to have that option. you could float them over to reinforce a 3rd base, and instead rely purely on the natural wall and army to stop Z from getting on top of your buildings.
what about depot #3?
depots #3, #4 and sometimes #5 are built at the natural choke vZ. vP, they are usually built in the terran's main base because blink stalker pressure can pick off depots as part of a natural wall. oracles and phoenix can easily pick off the SCVs that are trying to build there. T simply doesn't have enough units to defend against stargate pressure at 4 weak points: the natural choke, both mineral lines and also the main construction area where SCVs are vulnerable. part of the reason why terrans build a 3rd command center early is that the supply boost offered by the 3rd command center is more efficient overall than building additional depots in the main. vP, depots #3-5 provide very little utility. their raise / lower ability has no use... but what if terrans could float and land them?
let's float a few depots over to our 3rd base and see what they can do.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/u7wemO8.jpg)
with the help of those floating depots, T is able to build a wall at the 3rd base location earlier than usual and get the tanks pocketed away before those heavy gateway timings hit. orbital depots would continue to give T more options in walling off during the lategame. obviously engineering bays should have the technology right from the get-go. it is one of the worst design oversights of the Second Great War... hey Sarge, I coulda swore I saw them engi bays fly in the sky before  mech vZ would benefit from having the engineering bay available to wall the 3rd base location, especially because it is not busy with upgrades during this time. would engineering bay blocks prove to be too strong vP? certainly it would be bad for P it the engi bay finished building. T would have delayed an expansion *and* have created a jumbo-size overlord right on P's doorstep. I doubt it would be game-breaking, though. the SCV shouldn't be able to finish construction if P is diligent about scouting. you could, of course, build the engi bay somewhere else on P's side of the map, such as the 3rd base location, float it from there. I don't think it's a big deal in this matchup having a guaranteed scout of P's early tech. the one reaper is a fairly reliable scout already, and the engi bay may not be worth it from an economy standpoint.
what about the scouting potential of orbital depots? well, since the 3rd depot is not used as part of a wall vP, it might be worth skipping a MULE, instead spending some energy to call down an orbital launch pad and float the 3rd depot into nearby dead space, where it can keep track of oracle movements / warp prisms - and since Z lacks anti-air in the early-game, the 1st or 2nd depot could be used like an overlord to roam the map. I think the main benefit of orbital depots, however, is in the mid-late game where T seems to be falling behind nowadays. orbital depots could be moved around where they are needed: send them to outlying planetaries, for instance, to provide an extra layer of sim-city around the command center, thereby making it harder for DTs and banelings to bust through - or simply use them as overlords when the opportunity presents itself: whenever you manage to reset the muta count, or when Z is skimping on corruptors. I think it would go a little way towards redressing the huge advantage of creep spread in the lategame.
I enjoy multiplayer tweaks that enhance the flavour of the game's established lore and racial identity. the Terrans, adaptive and crafty, too stubborn or stupid to know when to give up. it is one of those innocuous design changes that might test the community's willingness to actually change the game for the better (that is, assuming there is one paid intern who could even do this stuff in the first place). I'm going with innocuous because it's one that doesn't upset the combat interactions we have presently. everyone is yelling about map design and how it favours Z so much, which is fair, but I find it more fun to pretend that DK is still around and imagine what he might do to make terran better suited for competition on the maps we already have.
TLDR: supply depots deserve a little more utility and should have the ability to lift off, float and land. engineering bays too!
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I don't want to discuss the balance issues but this post just reads great :D. The technical introduction really amused me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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Northern Ireland24539 Posts
Now this is podracing theorycrafting
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Bisutopia19215 Posts
I am behind this idea and love the way OP structured their reasoning. I would also consider that it add 25 hp to the depot so it can more appropriately protect the supply increase.
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Are you suggesting that this be an ability that costs energy? or that supply depots be able to do this naturally?
Because I don't think any Terran is going to use this calldown that could have been used as MULE. Besides, Terran can pretty much do all the things you described already.
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Northern Ireland24539 Posts
Give Protoss a ‘door’ and I’m down with some of this!
Aside from the relatively radical depot ideas displayed, engi bays should fly once more.
I think this is an interesting idea, albeit such a change I have zero idea how it actually would play out. But that’s the kind of theorycraft I like.
My guess is that it might be incredibly situationally powerful/utterly useless and counter-productive depending on game state. And maps as well.
Have a bunch of depots floating above ledges vs a pure ling/bling player is basically perpetual map hack for those spots for quite some time. Vs Toss sharking once obsit’s basically useless outside of airspace as an oracle/prism warning system.
It could be an early warning system in TvT that’s too potent against drops, especially committed doom drops. May make the matchup more fair/predictable at the expense of being very prone to stalemates. If you have floating depots covering the majority of flight paths there’s less room to pick your opponent apart positionally.
Enjoyed this post immensely, good stuffs well-presented, and has me pondering ‘how would this play out?’ for all sorts of scenarios and potential utilisation.
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On April 24 2022 09:06 Jerubaal wrote:
Are you suggesting that this be an ability that costs energy? or that supply depots be able to do this naturally?
Because I don't think any Terran is going to use this calldown that could have been used as MULE. Besides, Terran can pretty much do all the things you described already.
given that cyclones very often rely on scans to get the final 2 or 3 volleys off, and that there is some guesswork involved in the movement of early oracles vT (that awkward time when T only has 1 cyclone and a few marines), I can absolutely see 1 orbital depot floating in dead space and paying for itself. it pays for itself when P sees the depot and turns his oracles around, or when you have an extra split second to get your cyclone and marines in position.
I suggest that this be an ability bundled into the existing ability "Calldown: Extra Supply" and its cost remain unchanged at 50 energy. it would serve as a straight-up buff to supply depots.
here is a fact: if you do the math, you will find that it is already better for T to calldown supply when dealing with 1-base cheese. there is no hurry to mine out your base when it seems that both players will be stuck on 1-base for quite a while.
here is another fascinating fact: many top pro KR terran players cannot micro-manage MULEs beyond the early game. they fail to pull the MULE away before it attempts the final transfer (the one that doesn't make it back to the command center). believe me, I have watched enough FPPoV. they mine minerals that they can never use. I've seen Maru fail to keep up with the mechanic many times, along with the other code S terrans. you could make a whole thread about that:
balance suggestion! make terran MULE last 1 second longer
I don't think it is possible for a human player to keep up with this mechanic reliably on 3+ bases... not when there is so much army micro to be focused on. not when there are much more impactful things to worry about, like HTs in warp prism or baneling or ravager biles. there is too much in the game that can distract your attention away from this mechanic.
of course, there are times during the game when T wants to MULE like a madman, and there are times when T banks some energy to deal with the possibility of DTs, for killing observers and clearing creep. these are scenarios where growing the economy and mining minerals as fast as possible becomes less of a priority
imagine a zerg going all-in on 4-bases with roaches, ravagers, banelings. does the same reasoning not stand? that T should refrain from mining out his 3 bases as fast as possible? it is not the time to grow your economy and expand. during these scenarios, you want to defend and focus everything on units and tech. orbital depots = more supply, more walling, more scouting potentials. in any event, it is a straight buff. I don't know any terrans who argue against a straight buff (except when they are obsessed with something else).
On April 24 2022 09:01 BisuDagger wrote:
I am behind this idea and love the way OP structured their reasoning. I would also consider that it add 25 hp to the depot so it can more appropriately protect the supply increase.
this was on my mind the whole time when I was writing my OP, but I was careful not to push my luck yeah, I think a small hp buff would sweeten the deal and make it more attractive as a flexible wall-in option
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Seems like a small change that could eventually become very strong. I'd start with floating depots, that while in the air, do not provide +supply, and then alter from there.
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I like this idea (engi bays were clearly designed to lift, at least from a visual perspective). Also, kudos for a solid, well-written post. I agree with the previous poster, maybe try without granting supply in the air at first.
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Interesting thoughts! If lifted supply stations temporarily don't provide supply, and they move slow enough, this might be viable (if not necessary for the current balance).
I do feel the comparison between the 3 supply sources is somewhat skewed. I got a bit wound up about it, but the rest of the post calmed me down again 
- Overlord transport and Overseeer morph are not free, so that could be marked as a +/- as well. Also, for Overlords to be "powerful scouts" I'd say you need the speed upgrade.
- If you think scouting for pylons vP takes effort, how do you feel about looking for proxies vT? They can be everywhere. The fact that pylons are required to build a building on the map is a pretty big restriction if you want to compare supply sources.
- Supply depots can be used to block enemy buildings, just like pylons. In fact, they can do so indefinitely and still be cancelled at any time, whereas a pylon either finishes or is cancelled within 18 seconds.
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Just build CC and gains supply. let s tweak SC2 to allow player to build a 4th CC in a row
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Northern Ireland24539 Posts
Going back to OP what particular timings/phases of the game would this particularly be useful in? Certainly against pure Oracle openers, and as a general warp prism spotter. Generally I suppose provided your opponent isn’t going/has air supremacy it’ll always have some use in dead spaces.
Also in other tweaks relating to Terran buildings, why not give Terran the option to choose which side of a building adds construct on?
Would allow for cleaner base layouts when things get cluttered and at least the potential for alternate sim-cities.
Number 1 QoL improvement is your add-ons aren’t considerably more/less vulnerable to being sniped purely based on where you spawn.
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I do miss the floating engineering bays of Brood War, would be good if that was brought back at least. Floating depots though, that'd be pretty neat. Maybe put up an upgrade in the e-bay to let depots and bays themselves float for 50/50 or something.
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I always thought the +8 supply buff should come with a health boon as well.
Reading this did give me the thought of, why not just replace it with an ability to call down a Supply Depot. I don't actually think it would be too powerful, firstly. It wouldn't replace MULE's and secondly. It would help securing areas really quickly, which feels very Terran. The only thing is that it should probably have a 50~ range restriction, otherwise, we would see players calling down supply depots to block entire armies from fleeing.
The +/- section does come of as super biased, but I won't judge this too much.
Had the Engineering Bay always been able to fly, I'm 100% it would've gotten a health nerf at some point. I think it DOES break blocking expos. We would see Engi bay scouts every game, of course we would, because it's cheaper than SCAN and actually requires the opponent to destroy it. The synergy as you say with the Cyclone is also very real. The reason the Engineering Bay doesn't come with the fly ability, is because they streamlined how it works. Production structures that benefit from add-ons have the ability to fly and so do the Command Center/Orbital Command. If the Engineering Bay could lift off, it would be an outlier in SC2.
MULE's with 1 extra trip is such a huge buff, I don't think you realise this. I think it's kind of nice that there are pros and cons in which Mineral Patch you chose to MULE, also I think it's especially thematic that the MULE is actually wasteful.
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EPT
