• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:03
CEST 21:03
KST 04:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo6Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Updates to The Core/Core Lite for v5.0.16?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL CK #4 20-21th June Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed BW General Discussion VPN experiences
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6765 users

Code S RO10 - Group B, Day 2 Preview - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
20 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16077 Posts
April 22 2022 10:13 GMT
#21
On April 22 2022 18:43 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2022 17:34 Charoisaur wrote:
On April 22 2022 15:35 Balnazza wrote:
On April 22 2022 06:39 JJH777 wrote:
On April 22 2022 06:07 Balnazza wrote:
On April 22 2022 00:42 JJH777 wrote:
On April 21 2022 21:19 Balnazza wrote:
On April 21 2022 12:09 JJH777 wrote:
On April 21 2022 09:09 Balnazza wrote:
Weird idea, but Maru could also just play better, would solve that problem quite easily...


If Maru playing at his peak level is the only thing stopping Zerg dominance in everything then there are some serious issues.


Maru lost against a zerg and a protoss btw. And no, Maru doesn't need to play his peak to break Zerg dominance, but he needs to play at his peak to beat Dark, Rogue, Serral and Reynor, when they are at their best.
I know some people might oppose to that, but Maru isn't some kind of god that is 10 levels ahead of everyone else. He is a great player, but so are others. At the moment, he isn't bringing his A-game, while people like Creator or RagnaroK really stepped up, kind of like Ryung stepped up during IEM. It happens, you know? Or how does this work? The game is only balanced if Maru playing with one hand on the balls is still winning everything?

Sorry, but if we are in a situation were people improving just gets shrugged off as balance and everything sucks anyway, then Starcraft 2 indeed has a deep problem community-wise.


Was your original post in reply to angry_maia? That's how I interpreted it. If so I don't know why you are so focused on Maru's results. One players results shouldn't be the only thing that changes whether the game looks balanced.


Players results never really say much about balance, unless you very extreme scenarios. But basing any balance discussion on 10 players is just silly. It is just disrespectful towards RagnaroK and Creator to say their runs are just the result of balance and excuse the performance of Maru like that (Ryung and ByuN are great players, but it isn't that big of an upset if they miss GSL playoffs, that is why I focus on Maru here).
It just urks me that people actually think Maru is that much of a God in the game that he alone is an indicator for balance (aka. if he loses balance is off). He isn't. And when he underperforms like in this group, you can call him out for it.


Creator deserves the result. I think it's insane to not acknowledge that Zerg has been doing better than the other races for years now though. Zerg basically never does truly bad in any event. Even when they lose they are inevitably in the top 4 or finals. When is the last time Zerg actually completely missed a tournament playoff? I think you'd have to go back to 2017 to find an example of that. Meanwhile it happens to T/P regularly.


Zerg is doing fantastic - mostly because it has the most top players left. That is all that there is to say about it. sorry, but neither Serral, Reynor, Rogue or Dark qualify as a "patch zerg". But just both of the top korean zergs missing playoffs would be quite the coincidence. How often did terran miss playoffs completly when Innovation/TY/GuMiho were still around on top of Maru? How often did Protoss miss playoffs when there was Stats on top of herO/Zest/Trap?
I wouldn't say SC2 is "dead" by no means, but it is clear as rain that there isn't much fluctuation with new players anymore. Any player, especially in korea, that retires or drops of, is more or less just a big for his race. Some players step up, but who was the last player with no prior success that had a breakthrough into the top-ranks? Clem/MaxPax in Europe for sure, but in korea?
If Zerg was that overpowered, Armani and Solar shouldn't have dropped out in the first round. Zerg also wouldn't have been the least represented race in GSL, but rather some nonames would have kicked established players left and right. None of that did happen.

I just can't hear this 'Zerg players are just better' argument anymore because it's based on the results of those Zergs in the last few years during which Zerg has been overpowered for long periods of time. If you buff Protoss hard right now, in 3 years we could say the same about Protoss players, same with terran.
I don't think Dark / Rogue / Serral / Reynor are patchzergs but their results have clearly been boosted a bit by the state of their race.
Also Zerg has also lost a top Zerg in soO and Stats and INnoVation weren't exactly winning championships before they had to go to military so this argument is a bit disingenious imo


But we are not talking about "boosted results". We are apparently only talking about "lul, Zerg not beatable, otherwise Maru would win everything". It just is completly unjustified that apparently your achievements are only worth something when you are terran. I mean, just take this thread. It is neither about what an underperformance Maru delievered nor the great uprise (re-uprise?) of Creator - it is about how everything is only balance, no personal skill involved whatsoever.
And I really, really, just hate that. Especially since the same people wouldn't make a peep if Maru would just win everything. Terran OP? Nah, he is just Flash 2.0!

Well if it's just one guy winning everything and the rest of the race would be doing mediocre it would be a different scenario.

But I agree with you that we shouldn't focus on balance this much and dismiss player achievements.

Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#119
Reynor vs Solar
RotterdaM947
IndyStarCraft 146
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 947
ByuN 508
WinterStarcraft296
IndyStarCraft 146
UpATreeSC 108
BRAT_OK 66
Railgan 30
RushiSC 24
MindelVK 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3400
Soulkey 405
BeSt 189
ggaemo 145
actioN 77
Sea.KH 48
Hyun 34
scan(afreeca) 34
Free 32
Pusan 27
[ Show more ]
Rock 18
Counter-Strike
fl0m9243
byalli634
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu359
Other Games
singsing3177
Grubby3173
Beastyqt536
FrodaN480
B2W.Neo413
C9.Mang0188
uThermal175
Mew2King111
XaKoH 61
QueenE57
Trikslyr49
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream2860
Other Games
gamesdonequick1022
StarCraft 2
angryscii 20
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 21
• FirePhoenix13
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2475
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 1502
• Shiphtur187
Other Games
• imaqtpie879
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Spring Champion…
15h 57m
GSL
16h 57m
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
23h 57m
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
1d 4h
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 15h
GSL
1d 16h
Patches Events
1d 21h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 23h
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.