• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:28
CET 02:28
KST 10:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation12Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion What happened to TvZ on Retro? Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2055 users

Code S RO10 - Group B, Day 2 Preview - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
20 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16008 Posts
April 22 2022 10:13 GMT
#21
On April 22 2022 18:43 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2022 17:34 Charoisaur wrote:
On April 22 2022 15:35 Balnazza wrote:
On April 22 2022 06:39 JJH777 wrote:
On April 22 2022 06:07 Balnazza wrote:
On April 22 2022 00:42 JJH777 wrote:
On April 21 2022 21:19 Balnazza wrote:
On April 21 2022 12:09 JJH777 wrote:
On April 21 2022 09:09 Balnazza wrote:
Weird idea, but Maru could also just play better, would solve that problem quite easily...


If Maru playing at his peak level is the only thing stopping Zerg dominance in everything then there are some serious issues.


Maru lost against a zerg and a protoss btw. And no, Maru doesn't need to play his peak to break Zerg dominance, but he needs to play at his peak to beat Dark, Rogue, Serral and Reynor, when they are at their best.
I know some people might oppose to that, but Maru isn't some kind of god that is 10 levels ahead of everyone else. He is a great player, but so are others. At the moment, he isn't bringing his A-game, while people like Creator or RagnaroK really stepped up, kind of like Ryung stepped up during IEM. It happens, you know? Or how does this work? The game is only balanced if Maru playing with one hand on the balls is still winning everything?

Sorry, but if we are in a situation were people improving just gets shrugged off as balance and everything sucks anyway, then Starcraft 2 indeed has a deep problem community-wise.


Was your original post in reply to angry_maia? That's how I interpreted it. If so I don't know why you are so focused on Maru's results. One players results shouldn't be the only thing that changes whether the game looks balanced.


Players results never really say much about balance, unless you very extreme scenarios. But basing any balance discussion on 10 players is just silly. It is just disrespectful towards RagnaroK and Creator to say their runs are just the result of balance and excuse the performance of Maru like that (Ryung and ByuN are great players, but it isn't that big of an upset if they miss GSL playoffs, that is why I focus on Maru here).
It just urks me that people actually think Maru is that much of a God in the game that he alone is an indicator for balance (aka. if he loses balance is off). He isn't. And when he underperforms like in this group, you can call him out for it.


Creator deserves the result. I think it's insane to not acknowledge that Zerg has been doing better than the other races for years now though. Zerg basically never does truly bad in any event. Even when they lose they are inevitably in the top 4 or finals. When is the last time Zerg actually completely missed a tournament playoff? I think you'd have to go back to 2017 to find an example of that. Meanwhile it happens to T/P regularly.


Zerg is doing fantastic - mostly because it has the most top players left. That is all that there is to say about it. sorry, but neither Serral, Reynor, Rogue or Dark qualify as a "patch zerg". But just both of the top korean zergs missing playoffs would be quite the coincidence. How often did terran miss playoffs completly when Innovation/TY/GuMiho were still around on top of Maru? How often did Protoss miss playoffs when there was Stats on top of herO/Zest/Trap?
I wouldn't say SC2 is "dead" by no means, but it is clear as rain that there isn't much fluctuation with new players anymore. Any player, especially in korea, that retires or drops of, is more or less just a big for his race. Some players step up, but who was the last player with no prior success that had a breakthrough into the top-ranks? Clem/MaxPax in Europe for sure, but in korea?
If Zerg was that overpowered, Armani and Solar shouldn't have dropped out in the first round. Zerg also wouldn't have been the least represented race in GSL, but rather some nonames would have kicked established players left and right. None of that did happen.

I just can't hear this 'Zerg players are just better' argument anymore because it's based on the results of those Zergs in the last few years during which Zerg has been overpowered for long periods of time. If you buff Protoss hard right now, in 3 years we could say the same about Protoss players, same with terran.
I don't think Dark / Rogue / Serral / Reynor are patchzergs but their results have clearly been boosted a bit by the state of their race.
Also Zerg has also lost a top Zerg in soO and Stats and INnoVation weren't exactly winning championships before they had to go to military so this argument is a bit disingenious imo


But we are not talking about "boosted results". We are apparently only talking about "lul, Zerg not beatable, otherwise Maru would win everything". It just is completly unjustified that apparently your achievements are only worth something when you are terran. I mean, just take this thread. It is neither about what an underperformance Maru delievered nor the great uprise (re-uprise?) of Creator - it is about how everything is only balance, no personal skill involved whatsoever.
And I really, really, just hate that. Especially since the same people wouldn't make a peep if Maru would just win everything. Terran OP? Nah, he is just Flash 2.0!

Well if it's just one guy winning everything and the rest of the race would be doing mediocre it would be a different scenario.

But I agree with you that we shouldn't focus on balance this much and dismiss player achievements.

Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft346
NeuroSwarm 72
SpeCial 67
trigger 31
Vindicta 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 733
Sexy 42
NaDa 37
Bale 5
Dota 2
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m885
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0151
Other Games
summit1g8840
gofns7822
shahzam378
Maynarde111
ViBE92
PPMD23
JimRising 23
Models5
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick594
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 83
• RyuSc2 29
• davetesta28
• Sammyuel 5
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21250
• Ler67
Other Games
• Scarra433
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
8h 32m
RSL Revival
8h 32m
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
10h 32m
Cure vs Reynor
Classic vs herO
IPSL
15h 32m
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
OSC
17h 32m
BSL 21
18h 32m
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 8h
RSL Revival
1d 8h
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
1d 10h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 10h
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
1d 18h
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
1d 18h
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 21h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL: GosuLeague
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.