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On October 23 2021 13:54 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2021 08:10 Balnazza wrote:On October 22 2021 01:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2021 15:12 Riner1212 wrote:
(Serral later said he has less trouble against Korean foes than Reynor and Clem).
right: lost 3-0 to maru lol. Serral stans are just going to say "but he's beaten Maru in the past" and completely ignore the rest. Completely ignore how Serral no longer has a rigged map pool and overpowered Zerg balance meta at his advantage when he loses. Completely ignore how he had both of those things when he's faced Maru in the past. Who cares about Maru? He hasn't won a GSL in nearly three years, hasn't won a DH Masters and even his last great victory (GSL Super Tournament) was nearly two years ago. At this point there are far more interesting rivalries out there than Serral vs. Maru. But if you are interested in the stats: Maru won two times against Serral (both times 3-0), but lost 4 times (2x 0-2, 1x 0-3 and 1x 1-2). Both thoses 0-2 losses where in the same year as his wins against Serral. So I don't really see how this has anything to do with balance. And before you start with map pool...in their last two matches, both tournaments used the exact same maps  What is the "far more interesting rivalries out there" you are talking about? Clem vs Reynor might be one but the need more time to get the hype up. Serral vs Maru is one that we all wanted to see years ago at their absolute best but never got to it because of Maru "weakness" in TvP. It take 2 years till now where we can say that Serral and Maru is at the top of their game again. In fact, Serral ranked No.1 and Maru ranked No.2 on the current Aligulac kinda speak out for the hype, not that I really agree to whole Aligulac ranking to begin with. Somehow you imply that Maru is "washed up" is pretty interesting, the same way as people think Serral was "washed up" before his recent DH tournament win. The idea that "either you are a champion or you are trash" is simply not correct, just look at Zest, he hasnt won shit for years, but most people including me believe he is the best Protoss out there and he showed that by beating Serral up convincingly last night.
I will say upfront, that I don't particurlarly like Maru, so obviously I'm not the gold standard for judging him. And I completly agree with your statement that there is more instead of "hero or zero".
The Serral/Maru thing was (atleast for me) at their height 2018, when both of them dominated their respective "half of the world". They were definetly the two best players of that year. But since they rarely if ever clashed, it became more of a pipe dream than a rivalry.
As of now though, I'm more interested in for example Serral vs. Clem. Because a rivalry without stakes is just not that interesting for me and Serral and Maru don't really battle for anything at the moment, since Maru really doesn't have anything to bring to the table (title-wise, don't get me wrong please). "Serral vs. Maru" was, in the past, the match about the GOAT title. Now it feels like the GOAT just plays against an elite korean. That is cool, but there are other korean elite players, so Maru doesn't stand out.
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Haha, time to get another 5 pages in this thread, is it?
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On October 23 2021 21:43 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2021 13:54 tigera6 wrote:On October 22 2021 08:10 Balnazza wrote:On October 22 2021 01:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2021 15:12 Riner1212 wrote:
(Serral later said he has less trouble against Korean foes than Reynor and Clem).
right: lost 3-0 to maru lol. Serral stans are just going to say "but he's beaten Maru in the past" and completely ignore the rest. Completely ignore how Serral no longer has a rigged map pool and overpowered Zerg balance meta at his advantage when he loses. Completely ignore how he had both of those things when he's faced Maru in the past. Who cares about Maru? He hasn't won a GSL in nearly three years, hasn't won a DH Masters and even his last great victory (GSL Super Tournament) was nearly two years ago. At this point there are far more interesting rivalries out there than Serral vs. Maru. But if you are interested in the stats: Maru won two times against Serral (both times 3-0), but lost 4 times (2x 0-2, 1x 0-3 and 1x 1-2). Both thoses 0-2 losses where in the same year as his wins against Serral. So I don't really see how this has anything to do with balance. And before you start with map pool...in their last two matches, both tournaments used the exact same maps What is the "far more interesting rivalries out there" you are talking about? Clem vs Reynor might be one but the need more time to get the hype up. Serral vs Maru is one that we all wanted to see years ago at their absolute best but never got to it because of Maru "weakness" in TvP. It take 2 years till now where we can say that Serral and Maru is at the top of their game again. In fact, Serral ranked No.1 and Maru ranked No.2 on the current Aligulac kinda speak out for the hype, not that I really agree to whole Aligulac ranking to begin with. Somehow you imply that Maru is "washed up" is pretty interesting, the same way as people think Serral was "washed up" before his recent DH tournament win. The idea that "either you are a champion or you are trash" is simply not correct, just look at Zest, he hasnt won shit for years, but most people including me believe he is the best Protoss out there and he showed that by beating Serral up convincingly last night. I will say upfront, that I don't particurlarly like Maru, so obviously I'm not the gold standard for judging him. And I completly agree with your statement that there is more instead of "hero or zero". The Serral/Maru thing was (atleast for me) at their height 2018, when both of them dominated their respective "half of the world". They were definetly the two best players of that year. But since they rarely if ever clashed, it became more of a pipe dream than a rivalry. As of now though, I'm more interested in for example Serral vs. Clem. Because a rivalry without stakes is just not that interesting for me and Serral and Maru don't really battle for anything at the moment, since Maru really doesn't have anything to bring to the table (title-wise, don't get me wrong please). "Serral vs. Maru" was, in the past, the match about the GOAT title. Now it feels like the GOAT just plays against an elite korean. That is cool, but there are other korean elite players, so Maru doesn't stand out.
Maru still has the 2nd most title in KR scene after Rogue and the best Terran in KR, hes not just another great KR Terran like you implied, you clearly under-estimate his achievement and performance. If you watch his performance in Asus Rog, where he obliberate pretty much everyone, including the best from EU and KR, then there is every reason to hype about the match.
And you automatically give Serral the GOAT for winning a couple more tournament on the same level with Super Tournament is just pure bias imo. Serral is just not as dominating as he did in 2018, either by the meta or many nerf on Zerg, and his accomplishment has not been as high as those "GOAT" standard that you spoke of. If you rank 2020-2021 accomplishment as a whole, Serral and Maru are barely in top 5, or maybe top 10, and neither are really dominating the world of SC2 like they did in 2018. That still make the matchup interesting given the recent performance.
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I honestly was really thinking hard about calling Serral the GOAT in this, since it would automatically derail the conversation a bit, but since I honestly believe he is, I left it in. But sure, Serral isn't as dominant as he was before, he isn't one step above everyone else like in 2018, but he is "in the mix". Like in this very elite group of players who will win the tournament, but it isn't clear which one of them and it would be an upset if none of them gets the win.
But then again, that makes Serral vs. Maru not that special at the moment. It is just one of those top-contender matches, but nothing else stands out. While for example Serral vs. Clem is a clear rivalry about dominance outside of korea. It also helps that they clash a lot. I think just in 2021 Serral and Clem played more against each other than Serral and Maru ever did.
Honestly I'm not even sure if you can call Serral vs. Maru a rivalry anymore. They play each other very rarely, they obviously don't hate each other (so there is no "social rivalry" either) and they don't really have anything to rival about in the first place. It is a good, solid match between two outstanding players, but that is about it.
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EPT
