Versus map pool will be updated on October 19th PDT with a few brand new maps. New season roll will follow at later date, and we will inform you once the date is confirmed.
On October 13 2021 11:43 tigera6 wrote: I noticed its 8 maps pool now, so either Beckett will be gone, or it will be weird with the whole map veto/pick process.
Beckett will be gone as well (source: Sinistro from esl)
Kind of sad that they didn't opt to add any of the new four player maps to the 1v1 pool but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth; very happy to have new maps.
It s a huge work despite their obvious similarity. I can t wait to see Blizzard removing 2 workers and increasing little bit minerals ressource at start.......
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
What about it? It's obvious at this point that unless something like Broodlord/Infestor pops up again there won't be any patches, not like anyone at Blizzard even has the metagame knowledge or the expertise to come up with a good patch anyways.
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
I really dont want anybody in blizzard now to touch the balance of the game, is not is a terrible place and now they can do more harm than good. Achieving balance through maps à la broodwar is preferable.
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
I really dont want anybody in blizzard now to touch the balance of the game, is not is a terrible place and now they can do more harm than good. Achieving balance through maps à la broodwar is preferable.
I am not sure that is even possible in SC2. How do you design a map that is bad for Protoss but equally good for Terran and Zerg?
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
I really dont want anybody in blizzard now to touch the balance of the game, is not is a terrible place and now they can do more harm than good. Achieving balance through maps à la broodwar is preferable.
I am not sure that is even possible in SC2. How do you design a map that is bad for Protoss but equally good for Terran and Zerg?
Perfect balance is unattainable through either patches and maps, but we can come closer with maps imo. Maps like Blackburn are clearly Terran and Protoss favored, while Jagg is a Zerg map through and through, that's what vetos are for :D
You make big maps. Not necessarily open ones, but big ones. Protoss lacks mobility. Even with recall as it has a very very high cooldown.
For example, I had one game in Romanticide where in the Lategame (when I had my 4rth and my 5, onwards), the enemy zerg made nydus, but not to put it in my main and kill me. He put multiple nyduses on the borders of the map and he would instantly teleport his army across the map. Even with recall I couldn't catch it as Nydus has no cooldowns. and Zerg units are super fast. Even if I killed the Nydus he would make them again. And he didn't even need to put the nydus that close to my bases, as again Zerg units are super fast even off creep, and as a Protoss you need to wait for the super slow HT and Carriers to take any engage. I've never seen something so broken in my life. It was truly a "nydus network" and the unit taken to it's maximum potential. Just think about it, there is a reason why recall has a long cooldown and it's shared across al Nexuses. Fortunately that strat is only viable on big maps and no body uses Nydus that way.
But that's one example. In general big maps are Zerg favored. In the case of terran I guess it reduces the strenght of bio agression, but Mech can work in TvZ and Terran can defend far away bases pretty well with tanks/libs and PF. It also nerfs Protoss in a sense as Carriers are pretty slow and VR are not that fast before the upgrade. I've seen a lot of Zergs using Mutas in Romanticide so maybe they're onto something.
Also maybe more bases where minerals are exposed like that gold base in blackburn.
I mean, the fact that the only reason Protoss has more than 0% winrate vs zerg is all maps have only 1 entrance to the main and natura should help shown how important map design is.
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
I really dont want anybody in blizzard now to touch the balance of the game, is not is a terrible place and now they can do more harm than good. Achieving balance through maps à la broodwar is preferable.
I am not sure that is even possible in SC2. How do you design a map that is bad for Protoss but equally good for Terran and Zerg?
Perfect balance is unattainable through either patches and maps, but we can come closer with maps imo. Maps like Blackburn are clearly Terran and Protoss favored, while Jagg is a Zerg map through and through, that's what vetos are for :D
Really? Because the gold base is a very big buff for Zerg as they can take it earlier than other races and have less workers than in other maps that let them make more army or make it faster.
Pride of Altaris looks like a sick map! you can either Siege and defend your third that has destructible rocks and focus on getting the gold one later, but by doing so, you're essentially giving the gold to your opponent as well.
Really? Because the gold base is a very big buff for Zerg as they can take it earlier than other races and have less workers than in other maps that let them make more army or make it faster.
I mean while that is true in a way, it's also an easy map for split map mech and turtle Skytoss, with very close air rush distances which are obviously bad for Zerg. Also lots of chokes make siege tanks extremely strong and the map is very Liberator friendly.
I'm not saying that my opinion on BB is gospel or anything just saying I view it as a bad map for Zerg. That gold base is also ludicrously hard to hold if taken greedily.
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
I really dont want anybody in blizzard now to touch the balance of the game, is not is a terrible place and now they can do more harm than good. Achieving balance through maps à la broodwar is preferable.
Which is possible how given most map pools have 4/5 identikit maps with slight divergence?
Would be nice but without some kind of community server that could experiment a bit and put out a really radical map pool I’m not sure how you balance with maps.
Some new maps, in the past, showed some interesting new stuff. Some of them didn't feel that great but others are cool additions, like the boosting zones, slow zones, which can lead to different interactions and usages. I would like to have always at least 1 map in the pool where they play around with new stuff. This could creative diversity without any balance patches, which is great. As many said its better to not touch balance than to destroy it even when me as a low master terran quit playing by all the random protoss allins :D.
On a high level we are seeing so many great games nowadays its amazing. Especially tvz is so great to watch.
Really? Because the gold base is a very big buff for Zerg as they can take it earlier than other races and have less workers than in other maps that let them make more army or make it faster.
I mean while that is true in a way, it's also an easy map for split map mech and turtle Skytoss, with very close air rush distances which are obviously bad for Zerg. Also lots of chokes make siege tanks extremely strong and the map is very Liberator friendly.
I'm not saying that my opinion on BB is gospel or anything just saying I view it as a bad map for Zerg. That gold base is also ludicrously hard to hold if taken greedily.
Seems like a good map for Z in ZvT, and neutral in ZvP. 139w - 153l TvZ (47.6%) and 208w - 202l ZvP (50.7%) Blackburn LE
Really? Because the gold base is a very big buff for Zerg as they can take it earlier than other races and have less workers than in other maps that let them make more army or make it faster.
I mean while that is true in a way, it's also an easy map for split map mech and turtle Skytoss, with very close air rush distances which are obviously bad for Zerg. Also lots of chokes make siege tanks extremely strong and the map is very Liberator friendly.
I'm not saying that my opinion on BB is gospel or anything just saying I view it as a bad map for Zerg. That gold base is also ludicrously hard to hold if taken greedily.
Like I said my opinion on the matter isn't gospel by any means, but real talk, how many of those wins are Serral against lesser opponents that he stomps on any map like Heromarine? We all know how certain individual pros who are very dominant can shift balance perceptions.
Would be nice if they did something about the league bug asw. I just returned after a small hiatus (a mere six years or so) and was appalled to know league placement has been whack since FEB??
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
this. we need a balance patch more urgently than new maps. why cant esl just do the balancing? all blizzard needs is 1 intern to implement them as long as its just stat changes and nothing that requires code or art.
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
this. we need a balance patch more urgently than new maps. why cant esl just do the balancing? all blizzard needs is 1 intern to implement them as long as its just stat changes and nothing that requires code or art.
Making the change is the easy part. Knowing what to change and how to change it so it achieves the desired effect and has the least unintended consecuences is the hard part. Also knowing if you should balance for GSL, ESL, GM ladder?
EU is full of Protoss in GM. But then if they nerf protoss more they'll lose even harder. It will be at least 5 years before a Protoss is able to win GSL now for example.
Also what to nerf? Should you nerf VR? does that fix the game? Should you nerf the Queen? Should you nerf BC? Would that require further balance changes?
Changing a number is the easy part. It's everything else that is hard, and making that analisys correctly takes time, work and money, which I doubt Blizzard will want to put in.
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
this. we need a balance patch more urgently than new maps. why cant esl just do the balancing? all blizzard needs is 1 intern to implement them as long as its just stat changes and nothing that requires code or art.
Making the change is the easy part. Knowing what to change and how to change it so it achieves the desired effect and has the least unintended consecuences is the hard part. Also knowing if you should balance for GSL, ESL, GM ladder?
EU is full of Protoss in GM. But then if they nerf protoss more they'll lose even harder. It will be at least 5 years before a Protoss is able to win GSL now for example.
Also what to nerf? Should you nerf VR? does that fix the game? Should you nerf the Queen? Should you nerf BC? Would that require further balance changes?
Changing a number is the easy part. It's everything else that is hard, and making that analisys correctly takes time, work and money, which I doubt Blizzard will want to put in.
Easy, either reduce the HP on the Lurker or remove Adaptive Talons from the game entirely. The unit is way too dominant in all it's match ups and it forces Protoss to play hyper defensive past the early mid game, resulting in boring Skytoss.
I'm pretty much along the lines of EVERY air unit in the game needs both a damage reduction and an HP reduction and the entire game rebalanced around ground fights being the go to but we all know something sweeping like that is never going to happen.
On October 13 2021 22:38 Riner1212 wrote: okay so how about balance?
this. we need a balance patch more urgently than new maps. why cant esl just do the balancing? all blizzard needs is 1 intern to implement them as long as its just stat changes and nothing that requires code or art.
Making the change is the easy part. Knowing what to change and how to change it so it achieves the desired effect and has the least unintended consecuences is the hard part. Also knowing if you should balance for GSL, ESL, GM ladder?
EU is full of Protoss in GM. But then if they nerf protoss more they'll lose even harder. It will be at least 5 years before a Protoss is able to win GSL now for example.
Also what to nerf? Should you nerf VR? does that fix the game? Should you nerf the Queen? Should you nerf BC? Would that require further balance changes?
Changing a number is the easy part. It's everything else that is hard, and making that analisys correctly takes time, work and money, which I doubt Blizzard will want to put in.
Easy, either reduce the HP on the Lurker or remove Adaptive Talons from the game entirely. The unit is way too dominant in all it's match ups and it forces Protoss to play hyper defensive past the early mid game, resulting in boring Skytoss.
I'm pretty much along the lines of EVERY air unit in the game needs both a damage reduction and an HP reduction and the entire game rebalanced around ground fights being the go to but we all know something sweeping like that is never going to happen.
That's my gripe with the unit too, for a siege unit with a lot of health that can be mass produced it sure moves and transitions to and from attack mode very quickly.
it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's because below the pro level, Protoss is easier then the other two races.
And those statistics imo don't support the Lurker not getting looked at, Aligulac has the balance pretty good right now except for PvZ in which Zerg looks a bit weak at the moment, but balance rates shift alot in that match up.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's when you start running into problems with balance. Pro play? Protoss don't do super well, Zerg and Terran do ok? Well not sure about winrate but there are plenty of Protoss. There's also the problem that while Terran is "balanced" and does OK in pro play, it's in my opinion the hardest race to play from gold upwards. Meaning that a Terran GM player is probably mechanically much more skilled then the equivalent in the other races, is that ok?
Also how will one nerf impact a game? I agree sky toss is strong if you're able to turtle, but everything else sucks in pvz. Right now balance is ok. But it's hanging by a thread and if you change something you need to change a few things to get it back to an stable place.
why do you keep hanging on about protoss? terran and its 39% is just as not ok as protoss and its 41%. and also the argument that protoss is not doing well in tournaments is just not true at all. doing well is not only winning. actually making first place depends on so many other things than just player skill and balance. up until the finals protoss is actually doing exceptionally well in tournaments.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's when you start running into problems with balance. Pro play? Protoss don't do super well, Zerg and Terran don't ok. Gm? Well not sure about Winrate but there are plenty of Protoss. There's also the fact that while Terran is "balanced" and does OK in pro play, its the hardest race to play from gold upwards. Meaning that a Terran GM player is probably mechanically much more skilled then the equivalent in the other races, is that ok?
Also how will one nerf impact a game? I agree sky toss is strong if you're able to turtle, but everything else sucks in pvz. Right now balance is ok. But it's hanging by a thread and if you change something you need to change a few things to get it back to an stable place.
This is your opinion, but you state it as fact. Thats a big Problem in todays day and age where so many people diguise their opinion as facts and their misinformation and sometimes Deadly conspiracy Theories as opinion, that should be protected by freedom of speech.
Long story short, I would like to report you for writing that, because I think it doesn t belong here. But I can t.
On October 13 2021 19:06 mythikdawn wrote: Kind of sad that they didn't opt to add any of the new four player maps to the 1v1 pool but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth; very happy to have new maps.
Well let's be honest, the "unusual spawns" maps that made it to the final selection were not that good. For sure they were not as good as the standard 1v1 maps. So it is logical that they are not added to the ladder / ESL pool.
I believe some of the maps that were *not* selected would have been interesting additions, but it is also logical that the poeple in charge of the map pools would not take risks on maps that were never seen in a real context (map pool tournament).
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's when you start running into problems with balance. Pro play? Protoss don't do super well, Zerg and Terran don't ok. Gm? Well not sure about Winrate but there are plenty of Protoss. There's also the fact that while Terran is "balanced" and does OK in pro play, its the hardest race to play from gold upwards. Meaning that a Terran GM player is probably mechanically much more skilled then the equivalent in the other races, is that ok?
Also how will one nerf impact a game? I agree sky toss is strong if you're able to turtle, but everything else sucks in pvz. Right now balance is ok. But it's hanging by a thread and if you change something you need to change a few things to get it back to an stable place.
I think everybody agree here. If community will do the patch, this community has to check the game with a lower speed (not very fast but with fast speed of the game). Opening this kind of tourneys between pros will provide a tons of feedbacks, open a new persepective which can be analyze taking account the master level of hardcore gamers.
As Blizzard won t probably do the patch, their only good choice is to let the community decide or abandon sc2. Then if community starts a patch, it must not be done halfway, it must be in a place between BW and good ideas from SC2..
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's when you start running into problems with balance. Pro play? Protoss don't do super well, Zerg and Terran don't ok. Gm? Well not sure about Winrate but there are plenty of Protoss. There's also the fact that while Terran is "balanced" and does OK in pro play, its the hardest race to play from gold upwards. Meaning that a Terran GM player is probably mechanically much more skilled then the equivalent in the other races, is that ok?
Also how will one nerf impact a game? I agree sky toss is strong if you're able to turtle, but everything else sucks in pvz. Right now balance is ok. But it's hanging by a thread and if you change something you need to change a few things to get it back to an stable place.
This is your opinion, but you state it as fact. Thats a big Problem in todays day and age where so many people diguise their opinion as facts and their misinformation and sometimes Deadly conspiracy Theories as opinion, that should be protected by freedom of speech.
Long story short, I would like to report you for writing that, because I think it doesn t belong here. But I can t.
Another big problem happening today is the need to silence opinions we don't like instead of being able to talk openly about things we disagree on...
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's when you start running into problems with balance. Pro play? Protoss don't do super well, Zerg and Terran don't ok. Gm? Well not sure about Winrate but there are plenty of Protoss. There's also the fact that while Terran is "balanced" and does OK in pro play, its the hardest race to play from gold upwards. Meaning that a Terran GM player is probably mechanically much more skilled then the equivalent in the other races, is that ok?
Also how will one nerf impact a game? I agree sky toss is strong if you're able to turtle, but everything else sucks in pvz. Right now balance is ok. But it's hanging by a thread and if you change something you need to change a few things to get it back to an stable place.
This is your opinion, but you state it as fact. Thats a big Problem in todays day and age where so many people diguise their opinion as facts and their misinformation and sometimes Deadly conspiracy Theories as opinion, that should be protected by freedom of speech.
Long story short, I would like to report you for writing that, because I think it doesn t belong here. But I can t.
The fact is a Terran with a top form AND mechanically as great as a Zerg or Toss can win single match while he could lose in Best Of "X" matchs...Because he has to play aggressive and without any instant of un-awareness, he has to maintain pressure and action.
It s not necessary to talk like you do, you re only wasting your spittle, overstating on little biased words.
Marines has been used to be the central unit in the balance progress, it s not hard to admit that they are key unit in term of measurement between units and what you call "misinformation" hasn t to take place in a game forum...
It s easy to understand excepted Byun in 2016 (with 16 marines drop), noone could have prevent 4 Zergs (Life Rogue Serral and Dark) and two times SOS to win the big trophey.... The most important years of SC2 hasn t been Terran favored, and by now, mechanically speaking, as the game doesn t call into question the problem of speed being a more effective value than decision making, it will lead to a battle of endurance.
Already said Lurkers are balanced with marines.
And Blizzard said three Lurkers hits are necessary to kill a marine.
If you decrease the base damage done by lurkers against light armor units, in retrun something must be offered to Zerg race
Regarding balance, I really wish all the pro players/commentators came together and had some sort of input to make the game as good as it possibly can.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's when you start running into problems with balance. Pro play? Protoss don't do super well, Zerg and Terran don't ok. Gm? Well not sure about Winrate but there are plenty of Protoss. There's also the fact that while Terran is "balanced" and does OK in pro play, its the hardest race to play from gold upwards. Meaning that a Terran GM player is probably mechanically much more skilled then the equivalent in the other races, is that ok?
Also how will one nerf impact a game? I agree sky toss is strong if you're able to turtle, but everything else sucks in pvz. Right now balance is ok. But it's hanging by a thread and if you change something you need to change a few things to get it back to an stable place.
This is your opinion, but you state it as fact. Thats a big Problem in todays day and age where so many people diguise their opinion as facts and their misinformation and sometimes Deadly conspiracy Theories as opinion, that should be protected by freedom of speech.
Long story short, I would like to report you for writing that, because I think it doesn t belong here. But I can t.
Another big problem happening today is the need to silence opinions we don't like instead of being able to talk openly about things we disagree on...
I m up to discussing opinions, thats not the Problem. I have a problem when people claim to talk about facts, while it s realy just their opinion. If I would say "it s a fact that it s good that the greens and liberals" are Forming a governmend in Germany", that wouldn t make it a fact. Thats just my opinion. If I state it as fact, I dont realy want to discuss it, though. It s obviously an analogy, but I hope it transports the message.
On October 13 2021 19:06 mythikdawn wrote: Kind of sad that they didn't opt to add any of the new four player maps to the 1v1 pool but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth; very happy to have new maps.
Well let's be honest, the "unusual spawns" maps that made it to the final selection were not that good. For sure they were not as good as the standard 1v1 maps. So it is logical that they are not added to the ladder / ESL pool.
I believe some of the maps that were *not* selected would have been interesting additions, but it is also logical that the poeple in charge of the map pools would not take risks on maps that were never seen in a real context (map pool tournament).
We’re never going to find out unless orgs take a few risks, or alternatively make a bigger map pool that can accommodate a few experimental maps that may or may not work.
I’d lean more to a bigger pool with more experimental maps, especially now we have the dual problem of map pool rotation being slower than before, less fatigue playing 14 or 11 maps for ages.
Ultimately what constitutes a standard map pool now was built through years of testing and tweaking by map makers and those playing on their creations, Wings especially was a testing ground to figure out what features maps needed to be good for the game, as it sure wasn’t fleshed out at launch.
We’ve got a pretty good handle on what makes a stock standard 2 player macro map, but limited testing of just about anything else.
And worse still, Golden Wall which was a pretty successful, different kind of map was gone really quickly.
There’s so substitute for the ladder in having all levels of the game try things out, even the most dedicated map testers can’t compete with that volume.
With experimental maps we’re in that jobseeker’s paradox where they need experience to get a job, but can’t get experience without a job.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's when you start running into problems with balance. Pro play? Protoss don't do super well, Zerg and Terran don't ok. Gm? Well not sure about Winrate but there are plenty of Protoss. There's also the fact that while Terran is "balanced" and does OK in pro play, its the hardest race to play from gold upwards. Meaning that a Terran GM player is probably mechanically much more skilled then the equivalent in the other races, is that ok?
Also how will one nerf impact a game? I agree sky toss is strong if you're able to turtle, but everything else sucks in pvz. Right now balance is ok. But it's hanging by a thread and if you change something you need to change a few things to get it back to an stable place.
This is your opinion, but you state it as fact. Thats a big Problem in todays day and age where so many people diguise their opinion as facts and their misinformation and sometimes Deadly conspiracy Theories as opinion, that should be protected by freedom of speech.
Long story short, I would like to report you for writing that, because I think it doesn t belong here. But I can t.
You want to report me for saying Terran is the hardest race?
Alright, maybe I shouldn't state it as a fact because it's hard to verify, but I don't think that's a controversial opinion at all. And I don't even play Terran (except when I random). I'll edit the wording of my previous post.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
That's when you start running into problems with balance. Pro play? Protoss don't do super well, Zerg and Terran don't ok. Gm? Well not sure about Winrate but there are plenty of Protoss. There's also the fact that while Terran is "balanced" and does OK in pro play, its the hardest race to play from gold upwards. Meaning that a Terran GM player is probably mechanically much more skilled then the equivalent in the other races, is that ok?
Also how will one nerf impact a game? I agree sky toss is strong if you're able to turtle, but everything else sucks in pvz. Right now balance is ok. But it's hanging by a thread and if you change something you need to change a few things to get it back to an stable place.
This is your opinion, but you state it as fact. Thats a big Problem in todays day and age where so many people diguise their opinion as facts and their misinformation and sometimes Deadly conspiracy Theories as opinion, that should be protected by freedom of speech.
Long story short, I would like to report you for writing that, because I think it doesn t belong here. But I can t.
You want to report me for saying Terran is the hardest race?
Alright, maybe I shouldn't state it as a fact because it's hard to verify, but I don't think that's a controversial opinion at all. And I don't even play Terran (except when I random). I'll edit the wording of my previous post.
If terran is the hardest race, how come Diamond most popular race is zerg, then it magically becomes less popular in masters and GM by a long margin. There is usually almost twice as many terran as zergs in GM.
But yea sure terran is hardest race. All the zergs are stuck in diamond, because the race is so much harder. I can tell you why its harder. You cant just have a build and execute it. Every game you have to react to opponents build, harass and style. You have to scout and adapt in real time all game every game, Droning is a risk. Attacking is a risk. You usually need to scout, and defend many attacks until late game then you can try to win the game. You usually have to win 3-4 battles to maybe win a game.
Terran, you pick a build you execute it. You win one fight and you have solid chance to win the game right there. The opponent has to adapt to you and your speed.
Terran being the hardest race is old news, Every single stats you can look at, player base, race strategic style, it all points towards zerg being the hardest.
In any region, the higher on the ladder you go, the least zergs there are.
Also, Protoss blaming stargate play on certain OP zerg thing is toxic and overused. *Protoss always goes stargate because of hatchery overlord drop*.Overlord drop removed, protoss still go stargates every game. * Protoss always goes stargate because they need it to secure third* *Shield battery overcharge added, protoss still goes stargate every game* *Its because of banelings!!* * banelings nerf, protoss still goes stargate every game*.
Now the new thing is: * protoss goes stargate every game because of lurkers!!!*
Come on man, you guys got enough zerg things nerfed.
The real reason is. Protoss goes stargate everygame because its very easy for how strong it is. You can skip early/mid game units and start massing your perfect army from the start. All the gas you invest early game is in units that cant die to lings, bane, roaches or ravagers, making the game very easy for toss early game.
Saying Zerg takes risks while they have the larger vision on map with creep and overlord is the most idiot thing you can say in favor of Terran...
If Zerg has been A-click by Toss, it s not Terran fault, and there s absolutely not twice many terrans as zerg in GM, (1.8 to be accurate).
Then you say Lurkers doesn t need a little tweak while many people doesn t agree here.
If Terran wasn t the hardest race, how do you explain only Byun win Blizzcon, exploiting a single build-order called 16-marines double medivacs ? (and snowball with it) Don t answer, i have my toughts
On October 16 2021 00:15 Vision_ wrote: Saying Zerg takes risks while they have the larger vision on map with creep and overlord is the most idiot thing you can say in favor of Terran...
If Zerg has been A-click by Toss, it s not Terran fault, and there s absolutely not twice many terrans as zerg in GM, (1.8 to be accurate).
Then you say Lurkers doesn t need a little tweak while many people doesn t agree here.
If Terran wasn t the hardest race, how do you explain only Byun win Blizzcon, exploiting a single build-order called 16-marines double medivacs ? (and snowball with it) Don t answer, i have my toughts
"there s absolutely not twice many terrans as zerg in GM, (1.8 to be accurate)."
lmao.
You guys, it's not sunny outside, it's 98% non-cloudy, get it right.
On October 16 2021 00:15 Vision_ wrote: Saying Zerg takes risks while they have the larger vision on map with creep and overlord is the most idiot thing you can say in favor of Terran...
If Zerg has been A-click by Toss, it s not Terran fault, and there s absolutely not twice many terrans as zerg in GM, (1.8 to be accurate).
Then you say Lurkers doesn t need a little tweak while many people doesn t agree here.
If Terran wasn t the hardest race, how do you explain only Byun win Blizzcon, exploiting a single build-order called 16-marines double medivacs ? (and snowball with it) Don t answer, i have my toughts
"there s absolutely not twice many terrans as zerg in GM, (1.8 to be accurate)."
lmao.
You guys, it's not sunny outside, it's 98% non-cloudy, get it right.
I don t mind as Zergs lose twice times more than Toss
On October 16 2021 00:15 Vision_ wrote: Saying Zerg takes risks while they have the larger vision on map with creep and overlord is the most idiot thing you can say in favor of Terran...
If Zerg has been A-click by Toss, it s not Terran fault, and there s absolutely not twice many terrans as zerg in GM, (1.8 to be accurate).
Then you say Lurkers doesn t need a little tweak while many people doesn t agree here.
If Terran wasn t the hardest race, how do you explain only Byun win Blizzcon, exploiting a single build-order called 16-marines double medivacs ? (and snowball with it) Don t answer, i have my toughts
Lurkers definitely need a tweak, they are simply too tanky and too mobile for how much insane ground control they give, and I'm a lifelong Zerg player. I dislike when a certain unit is the absolute go to.
ZvP? All about the Lurker tech up
ZvT? I personally play old school with ling/bling/muta but in pro games Lurkers are the go to end game tech.
Hell, even in ZvZ at least on ladder it's just a rush to Lurkers which are soooo soo tedious to break through, they really just extend the length of the games so dramatically.
THAT being said, if the Lurker gets nerfed, Skytoss or some of Protoss's defensive capabilities will absolutely need to be tweaked. Protoss players like to cry about the dominance of Zerg ground armies while a few shield batteries and cannons make outlying expansions very difficult and costly to punish.
The new maps seem too much zerg favored. Other than that, I disagree on the need of a balance patch or maybe a few tweaks, lurkers, ghosts, bink dts can be nerfed but no by much.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
IEM WC titles: 2017 -> TY (and since then Zergs rule the World Championship) 2018 -> Rogue 2019 -> soO 2020 -> Rogue 2021 -> Reynor
Many people call me a Serral hater. So I am obviously wrong as you can see from this long list which mentions Serral like 3 times. In reality he was in 1 final of the 7 finals. (edit> zerg won finals, otherwise we can enlarge the selection to anger them fanboys)
On October 19 2021 19:59 MarianoSC2 wrote: Hm, it feels like all of the new maps except Curious minds are super Zerg favored, no?
Didn't check them in the game yet but from the preview pictures it looks like there are plenty chokepoints, should be Terran favored, no? But I didn't give it muhc tthought as I don't watch the SC2 anymore.
On October 19 2021 19:59 MarianoSC2 wrote: Hm, it feels like all of the new maps except Curious minds are super Zerg favored, no?
Do you mean the other way around? Because I saw Curious Mind with that triangle 3rd is super open against Zerg attack.I think creep can get all the way to the upper ramp next to the base after 2-3 rounds of spread from Zerg linear 3rd. Other map seems to be so-so but we have more macro map than rush map IMO, and thats a good thing in general, except for when it comes to PvZ.
On October 13 2021 11:43 tigera6 wrote: I noticed its 8 maps pool now, so either Beckett will be gone, or it will be weird with the whole map veto/pick process.
Beckett will be gone as well (source: Sinistro from esl)
On October 13 2021 11:43 tigera6 wrote: I noticed its 8 maps pool now, so either Beckett will be gone, or it will be weird with the whole map veto/pick process.
Beckett will be gone as well (source: Sinistro from esl)
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
Those two statistics are not even comparable to each other, yet here you are. How you came to the conclusion that 19% of GM being Zergs is okay because Zerg has won the WC many years in a row, some that are not even the current balance patch, while entirely ignoring literally every other tournament that happens is beyond me.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
Those two statistics are not even comparable to each other, yet here you are. How you came to the conclusion that 19% of GM being Zergs is okay because Zerg has won the WC many years in a row, some that are not even the current balance patch, while entirely ignoring literally every other tournament that happens is beyond me.
In case you didnt know, game balance are made around the top pro players, many people have said that. So if you are on the ladder rank and cant play like pro, tough luck, time to find a new game, dont expect Blizzard to change game balance for ladder player.
On October 13 2021 19:32 BisuDagger wrote: 3v3 and 4v4 maps need more changes.
Agreed, I'm happy there are _some_ changes, but they could switched up the entire pool. Even with older maps, it's been so long and they kept Nekodrec LE which is terrible.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
Those two statistics are not even comparable to each other, yet here you are. How you came to the conclusion that 19% of GM being Zergs is okay because Zerg has won the WC many years in a row, some that are not even the current balance patch, while entirely ignoring literally every other tournament that happens is beyond me.
In case you didnt know, game balance are made around the top pro players, many people have said that. So if you are on the ladder rank and cant play like pro, tough luck, time to find a new game, dont expect Blizzard to change game balance for ladder player.
Not exclusively, although it is factored in. If you can find me Blizzard saying they don’t even factor the top amateur players into their balance and design decisions I’ll retract.
Unless there’s a noticeably smaller faction population for other reasons such as ‘bugs are icky’ you really should start to see relative parity at a GM kind of level.
In an asymmetric kind of game I think it’s totally fine to have big differentials at different bands, it’s hard to make interesting factions that are different while being equally as rewarding to everyone’s skillset.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
Those two statistics are not even comparable to each other, yet here you are. How you came to the conclusion that 19% of GM being Zergs is okay because Zerg has won the WC many years in a row, some that are not even the current balance patch, while entirely ignoring literally every other tournament that happens is beyond me.
It's a theoretical blabering anyway, there's no balance team and they cannot buff zergs anyway and cannot nerf rest either. Deal with it
Edit> also claiming zerg is dead when they have won terrible terrible amount of big titles is just wrong
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
Those two statistics are not even comparable to each other, yet here you are. How you came to the conclusion that 19% of GM being Zergs is okay because Zerg has won the WC many years in a row, some that are not even the current balance patch, while entirely ignoring literally every other tournament that happens is beyond me.
In case you didnt know, game balance are made around the top pro players, many people have said that. So if you are on the ladder rank and cant play like pro, tough luck, time to find a new game, dont expect Blizzard to change game balance for ladder player.
Not exclusively, although it is factored in. If you can find me Blizzard saying they don’t even factor the top amateur players into their balance and design decisions I’ll retract.
Unless there’s a noticeably smaller faction population for other reasons such as ‘bugs are icky’ you really should start to see relative parity at a GM kind of level.
In an asymmetric kind of game I think it’s totally fine to have big differentials at different bands, it’s hard to make interesting factions that are different while being equally as rewarding to everyone’s skillset.
i'd guess that if any group has been left out of balance considerations, it's top amateur players. for the most part they are poor copies of pro players. their issues have solutions on display by the top players' of their race.
lower ranked players are playing such a different game than what pros are doing is irrelevant. i believe they have been taken into consideration over the years but pro play has always had the priority.
but i don't think GM populations have ever been this skewed for this long? it seems like a situation that previous balance teams would've addressed. but it's very tricky like i said because you've really got two sets of players playing the same build orders and strategies. one set is playing well and it's balanced. the other set is playing poorly and it's not. it's difficult to find changes that fix one without affecting the other
In case you didnt know, game balance are made around the top pro players, many people have said that. So if you are on the ladder rank and cant play like pro, tough luck, time to find a new game, dont expect Blizzard to change game balance for ladder player.
Yea I mean we saw where that approach got us. If noone plays the game or watches it, pro scene cannot exist.
If anything, balance should be based around the most active player base, and PRO PLAYERS SHOULD BE THE ONE ADAPTING.
In GM and masters, Zerg was most populated race a few years ago, and protoss least popular. And it was like that for at least 6 years straight.
Now they barely exist, last time i played i could play non stop for 6-7 hours and see one or two zerg. For protoss to become most popular race and zerg least popular race when it was other way around before, im gonna tell you; a lot of players had to quit for that to happen.
And then once ladder is mostly PVP or TVT for hours, what you think happen? More players quit and its a snowball effect.
I hate the old argument of balance around pro level only because its all that matters.
Mate, there are like 30 players that are considered top pro, with no new comers ever, same players for years.
What are the odds that out of those 30 players, the top 3 would be one of each race. What are the odds that there would be 10 of each race doing equally good?
I see tournament wins being used as proof of balance or lack of balance... What are the odds of 2 players being in the final of a tournament, and being identically equal in term of skills, and in equal form that day? Starcraft 2 skill scales infinitely and some people seem to think pros are evenly matched.
Mate, if you look carefully and have watched sc2 for years and arent too anti-zerg bias, you will understand that Serral is the player that makes the least amount of mistakes or mis-scouts in the history of starcraft. You basically NEVER see him make huge mistakes. Even Maru and Trap have their days where they do horrible misplays and mistakes, same for Dark and Rogue.
Pro level is not balanced, and is NOT decided by balance.
Balance only starts to have a big effect when you look at a population of thousands of players.
In case you didnt know, game balance are made around the top pro players, many people have said that. So if you are on the ladder rank and cant play like pro, tough luck, time to find a new game, dont expect Blizzard to change game balance for ladder player.
Pro level is not balanced, and is NOT decided by balance.
Balance only starts to have a big effect when you look at a population of thousands of players.
Strongly disagree, Pro level is the only place where balance matters. Below that you can always improve to overcome balance, however the best player of a given race is already extremely close to the humanly attainable skill level so there really isn't much room to improve and balance starts to play a role.
Also very difficult to compare players like that as Zerg objectively has the best scouting tools in the game so obviously the best macro Zerg is the player with the least mis-scouts. There is no way to say Serral or Maru are objectively better players than Trap
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
IEM WC titles: 2017 -> TY (and since then Zergs rule the World Championship) 2018 -> Rogue 2019 -> soO 2020 -> Rogue 2021 -> Reynor
Many people call me a Serral hater. So I am obviously wrong as you can see from this long list which mentions Serral like 3 times. In reality he was in 1 final of the 7 finals. (edit> zerg won finals, otherwise we can enlarge the selection to anger them fanboys)
On October 19 2021 19:59 MarianoSC2 wrote: Hm, it feels like all of the new maps except Curious minds are super Zerg favored, no?
Didn't check them in the game yet but from the preview pictures it looks like there are plenty chokepoints, should be Terran favored, no? But I didn't give it muhc tthought as I don't watch the SC2 anymore.
I guess the Serral GOAT claims then make sense when his fans apparently think all those tournaments have been won by Serral. I understand it now
All the GOAT talk is silly anyway, hard to compare past and current SC2. If anything Maru is GOAT since he's been relevant for a long time and won many tournaments. Serral is imo the strongest player of the last 3 years, but that's not GOAT material since Maru was also the 2nd best in that time frame in my eyes, some may say even the best, but I don't think so.
But I still value Mvp a lot, he was such a monster when he was competing.. as was MC.
On October 21 2021 20:15 HolydaKing wrote: All the GOAT talk is silly anyway, hard to compare past and current SC2. If anything Maru is GOAT since he's been relevant for a long time and won many tournaments. Serral is imo the strongest player of the last 3 years, but that's not GOAT material since Maru was also the 2nd best in that time frame in my eyes, some may say even the best, but I don't think so.
But I still value Mvp a lot, he was such a monster when he was competing.. as was MC.
MVP is the goat. He was the best in a time when the game was so unpredictable. What Nestea did was also really impressive.
In case you didnt know, game balance are made around the top pro players, many people have said that. So if you are on the ladder rank and cant play like pro, tough luck, time to find a new game, dont expect Blizzard to change game balance for ladder player.
Yea I mean we saw where that approach got us. If noone plays the game or watches it, pro scene cannot exist.
If anything, balance should be based around the most active player base, and PRO PLAYERS SHOULD BE THE ONE ADAPTING.
In GM and masters, Zerg was most populated race a few years ago, and protoss least popular. And it was like that for at least 6 years straight.
Now they barely exist, last time i played i could play non stop for 6-7 hours and see one or two zerg. For protoss to become most popular race and zerg least popular race when it was other way around before, im gonna tell you; a lot of players had to quit for that to happen.
And then once ladder is mostly PVP or TVT for hours, what you think happen? More players quit and its a snowball effect.
I hate the old argument of balance around pro level only because its all that matters.
Mate, there are like 30 players that are considered top pro, with no new comers ever, same players for years.
What are the odds that out of those 30 players, the top 3 would be one of each race. What are the odds that there would be 10 of each race doing equally good?
I see tournament wins being used as proof of balance or lack of balance... What are the odds of 2 players being in the final of a tournament, and being identically equal in term of skills, and in equal form that day? Starcraft 2 skill scales infinitely and some people seem to think pros are evenly matched.
Mate, if you look carefully and have watched sc2 for years and arent too anti-zerg bias, you will understand that Serral is the player that makes the least amount of mistakes or mis-scouts in the history of starcraft. You basically NEVER see him make huge mistakes. Even Maru and Trap have their days where they do horrible misplays and mistakes, same for Dark and Rogue.
Pro level is not balanced, and is NOT decided by balance.
Balance only starts to have a big effect when you look at a population of thousands of players.
I am not trying to protect the way they treat the Game Balance, I am just stating the way it is with SC2 and Blizzard. and its futile to make a fuss about it now when it has been that way for almost a decade. Until recently, Serral usually play the most "standard" gameplay but with extra speed, planning, scouting and decision making, but that still doesnt win him as many world title as you thought he could. Rogue played the most extreme way between "too aggro" and "too greedy" while playing standard at some games as well. But he has mixed it so well that it look like he would just crush people left and right when things going well for him. I think Serral style is for stability, but Rogue style is suited for winning tournament imo. In general, I wished SC2 could follow the AOE2 approach where they make game balance change every 2 months or so, and actually base on ranked game ladded match, not just pro level. But Blizzard doesnt do things like that, and they probably dont even care at this point given the personnel changes.
On October 15 2021 06:56 freelifeffs wrote: it is so insane to me that people even talk about potentially nerfing zerg when zerg makes up only 19% of the global gm population currently. 19%! that is the lowest a race has ever been since release of sc2. protoss is at 41% btw and terran at 39%. just nuts.
and not that master league is super relevant, but even there zerg is the least represented race.
zerg is dead.
Yeah, until the next WC is Zerg. Again. Hey, zergs are dead, but somehow have the WC title streak for years now. But Zergs are dead. yup. Totally dead.
Those two statistics are not even comparable to each other, yet here you are. How you came to the conclusion that 19% of GM being Zergs is okay because Zerg has won the WC many years in a row, some that are not even the current balance patch, while entirely ignoring literally every other tournament that happens is beyond me.
In case you didnt know, game balance are made around the top pro players, many people have said that. So if you are on the ladder rank and cant play like pro, tough luck, time to find a new game, dont expect Blizzard to change game balance for ladder player.
Not exclusively, although it is factored in. If you can find me Blizzard saying they don’t even factor the top amateur players into their balance and design decisions I’ll retract.
Unless there’s a noticeably smaller faction population for other reasons such as ‘bugs are icky’ you really should start to see relative parity at a GM kind of level.
In an asymmetric kind of game I think it’s totally fine to have big differentials at different bands, it’s hard to make interesting factions that are different while being equally as rewarding to everyone’s skillset.
i'd guess that if any group has been left out of balance considerations, it's top amateur players. for the most part they are poor copies of pro players. their issues have solutions on display by the top players' of their race.
lower ranked players are playing such a different game than what pros are doing is irrelevant. i believe they have been taken into consideration over the years but pro play has always had the priority.
but i don't think GM populations have ever been this skewed for this long? it seems like a situation that previous balance teams would've addressed. but it's very tricky like i said because you've really got two sets of players playing the same build orders and strategies. one set is playing well and it's balanced. the other set is playing poorly and it's not. it's difficult to find changes that fix one without affecting the other
Honestly, I believe the Swarmhost patch back in HOTS was based on the ladder and nothing else. Proplayers already adapted and these games generally had great viewership. IT was mostly issue of the ladder where "park and aim" approach in lower leagues was way too easy
Also it is tricky and it would require a bigger tweaking with most probably post-tweaking. And I doubt Blizzard will break their promise to not touch the game now.
Berlingrad is quickly becoming my new favorite map for purely aesthetic reasons. There's almost no bling and weird doodahs to distract you .. just an eminently enjoyable map to watch a game on.
I feel like the new maps are to big. Imo this is a very poor map pool for Terran. I do think they help late game zvp a bit though but I wish they had struck a better balance.
After watching the Super Tournament today, I am struck again by how pleasant it is to watch a game unfold on Berlingrad. It reminds me of the best of the BW maps like Destination and Heartbreak Ridge. I don't know if it is balanced though but I don't care as long as it makes watching a game so enjoyable.
Hopefully more map makers take heed and avoid the distracting elements such as: floating sharks, units that ascend when they are killed (why the f**k?) lava lakes (try finding a prism or medevac over it) or moving doodahs that blink and what not.
Just because you can add them does not mean that you should. Keep those things to a minimum on a map (or remove them entirely) and game play improves subjectively for spectators. Hats of to "Skypirinha1" who designed Berlingrad. Thank you sir!
Just my thoughts but I'd like to hear what other people think.
[edit] Here is another way to put it: I am there for the game, not the spectacular scenery.
EPT
2000 Atmospheres LE (Updated)
