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TSL7 - Power Rank

Forum Index > SC2 General
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TSL7 - Power Rank

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
June 12th, 2021 07:12 GMT
Power Rank

Brackets and standings on (Wiki)Liquipedia

TeamLiquid Starleague 7

by Wax

The TeamLiquid Starleague is back, and so is TL.net Power Rank!

Much has changed since TL.net last dared enrage the StarCraft II community by giving players numerical ranks, with the international scene vastly narrowing the gap with the traditional powerhouse of Korea. Will this be reflected in the rankings, or will TL.net's Korean elitism live on?

Power Rank

#16: Has

Even the most loyal Has fans such as I have to admit that the mad scientist from Taiwan has lost a few miles off his fastball in recent years, failing to make an impact in international competition and even ceding his regional crown to Nice. While Has did make a solid run through the NA/Asian qualifiers to earn his spot in TSL7, his poor showings in larger international competitions suggest he's headed to a quick exit in the main event.

A series win might be too much ask from Has at this point, but I hope he can at least give one of the title contenders a moment of panic and terror with a deadly cheese. After all, that's what endeared him to fans in the first place.


#15: souL

souL excelled in the TSL7 European server qualifiers back in May, taking down regional stalwarts such as MaNa, uThermal, and MarineLord to claim one of the six hotly contested spots. Unfortunately for the Polish Terran, his performance in the more recent DH Europe regional wasn't quite as strong, exiting the tournament in the RO16.

Overall, it fits souL's generation reputation: someone who's competitive with the top players in Europe when he's playing at his best, but not on a consistent basis. While souL should be able to deliver some entertaining and close games, he'll need some bracket luck to win to take a best-of-five in TSL7.


#14: MaxPax

The sixteen-year-old Danish Protoss is growing up right before our eyes! Initially known for his strategic creativity (notably his namesake proxy-Gate build), MaxPax has grown into a strong all-around player. The latest season of DH Europe was a breakthrough event for MaxPax, as he made it out of the group stages for the first time and went on to finish in the top eight of the playoffs.

The future is certainly bright for MaxPax, but it's probably still too early for him to make a deep run in a tournament of TSL7's magnitude. Top eight in Europe is certainly a good result, but one doesn't jump from there to immediately challenging the best players in the world (he was just eliminated from NeXT Season 1 by Maru and Zest). Still, if MaxPax prepares well and lives up to his reputation as a clever strategist, he might be able to pick up a signature win in a best-of-five.


#13: TIME

Back in 2019, a nineteen-year-old TIME put Chinese StarCraft II on the map by becoming his country's first player to reach the WCS Global Finals. While he hasn't gone on to become the next big Terran star as some had hoped, TIME has remained a dangerous contender in international competitions with plenty of upset potential.

TIME has put in solid performances in recent months, looking competitive against GSL players in events such as World Team League and NeXT Season 1. TIME has given players like Maru and Serral fits in the past, so underestimate him at your own peril.


#12: SpeCial

TSL seems like the exact kind of tournament where SpeCial should excel. He's been quite vocal about Terran being the faction that benefits most from having long preparation time, and he's proved his point on a number of occasions. Recently, he took down INnoVation 3-2 in the GSL Super Tournament II, and most notably, he strategized his way to the semifinals of BlizzCon 2017. If you look even further back in history, one of SpeCial's star-making moments in his early career actually came in TSL4 (2012), when he defeated the seemingly unstoppable HyuN in the first round.

Of course, it's not that preparation guarantees a victory for SpeCial—it just helps his chances. It still wasn't enough to save him from first round elimination against Elazer in last year's TSL6. In any case, I'm interested to see what strategies SpeCial decides to bring to TSL7—fans of mech should keep a particularly close eye on his games.


#11: Armani

Armani is one of the more unpredictable players in the Korean scene, with his form wildly fluctuating from tournament to tournament. He's a player who failed to make it out of the play-in stages of IEM Katowice 2021 (even losing to heavy underdog Kelazhur), but managed to qualify for GSL Code S weeks later by defeating both Maru and Dark (TWICE, in the case of Dark). Similarly, Armani was eliminated from the NeXT Season 1 qualifiers after losing twice to Creator, but then qualified for TSL7 the very next day by defeating Zest and Dream.

The #11 position seems like a fair middle ground for a player who could crash out early or take out a few favorites to make a surprisingly deep run.


#10: HeroMarine

Taking a glance at HeroMarine's record in 2021, you have to marvel at how he lives up to his reputation as the king of consistency. He almost never gives up any upsets, ruthlessly taking care of business against weaker players.

In the past, the problem for HeroMarine has been punching up (figuratively speaking, since he is always punching down due to his massive size), but he's made a lot of progress in that regard. There were some dark times when it seemed like Big Gabe was permanently stuck behind Serral, Reynor, and the championship-tier Koreans in StarCraft II's pecking order, but Gabe has gone on to win take some impressive upsets in world world championship-tier events (notably vs Classic at BlizzCon 2019, and vs Trap at IEM Katowice 2021). After finishing almost exactly where he was projected to at 4th place in DH Europe, will HeroMarine be able to surpass expectations in TSL7?


#9: Neeb

In rather un-Neebly fashion, the American Protoss recently opened up and admitted that the disappointment of dropping the North American crown to Astrea gave him extra motivation heading into the latest season of DreamHack Masters. Neeb actually ended up being the most dominant of all the regional champions, going 10-0 in matches with a 23-3 map score.

We would all be wise to remember that a motivated Neeb travelled to Korea and won the KeSPA Cup, reached the semifinals of Code S, and has generally been capable of standing toe-to-toe with the best players in the world. Of course, one also has to be wary about reading too deeply into North American results, given the relative weakness of the region. But there's no question that an in-form Neeb can make a huge impact at the international level.


#8: Zoun

Zoun is one of the toughest players to rate at the moment. He just finished second place in Super Tournament 2 by defeating both Rogue and Dark—the latter of whom he defeated two MORE times in NeXT Season 1. Yet, Zoun has been losing his fair share of games in many other competitions, which is reflected in his rather modest 13th place position in the Aligulac.com Korea rankings. Aligulac weighs all tournaments equally, so perhaps it is failing to account for a "big tournament Zoun." Or, maybe, it's telling us there's something at least a BIT flukey about his recent good results.

I'll err on the side of caution for now and keep Zoun in the lower half of the rankings, but he's definitely a dangerous wildcard player who could force his way into the championship picture.


#7: Dark

It would have been totally fair to place Zoun ahead of Dark, but out of respect to Dark's history of excellent play, he takes the #7 spot.

Dark's championship path at TSL6 was one of the most brutal tests of skill in StarCraft II history, going through Parting, Rogue, Reynor, ShoWTimE, Maru, ByuN, and Serral to win the title. Who would have thought that absurd run would be followed by a slump? Since TSL6, Dark placed top eight at IEM Katowice, top 16 in GSL Code S, and was eliminated in the first round of two Super Tournaments—rather disappointing for someone who looked like a top-tier championship contender. If Dark underperforms again in TSL7, this slump might turn into a full-blown crisis.


#6: Cure

Prior to publishing, I had to wonder if this placement of Cure would be considered controversial. On one hand, he's a beastly online player who's currently sitting at #2 in the Aligulac.com Korea standings. On the other hand, #2 is a far distance from his typical placement in major events, where he frequently goes out in the round of sixteen.

Cure optimists can point to King of Battles 2020 to prove that he's not destined to remain the king of the minors, as he came in second place after playing fantastic StarCraft (he picked up wins against Reynor, Serral, and TY). TSL7 happens to have the same number of players and a similar prize pool as King of Battles, so perhaps it's a stage upon which Cure can excel.


#5: Zest

Zest was briefly stuck in Cure's position a couple of years ago, crushing the opposition in smaller online tournaments while failing to deliver in big events. However, Zest overcame that difficult time and has become one of the SC2 scene's most prolific players in major and minor tournaments alike. Whether it's an ESL Weekly or the IEM World Championship, Zest will bring his A-game as long as there's ANY money to be won.

Zest's biggest obstacles in this tournament are the European Zerg duo of Reynor and Serral, both of whom he's had precious little success against in major tournaments. But if a certain someone (who might be French and play Terran) can remove those Zergs from Zest's path, then he has a solid chance of winning the championship.


#4: Reynor

At IEM Katowice 2021, we saw the best version of Reynor ever—a player who practiced 1v5 archon mode to improve his reaction speed, a player whose iron mental let him view every butt-clenching 3-2 victory as a '5-0' stomp, and a player who brought on Lambo as his personal coach to shore up holes in his strategic planning. The Reynor we've seen ever since then has certainly been excellent—he just finished the DH Europe regional in second place—but he's not quite that Reynor from Katowice.

Still, defeat has been a good motivator for the Italian Zerg in the past, and perhaps his two losses to Clem in DreamHack Summer will have inspired him to try and regain his honor. We all know what Reynor can be at his best—it's just a matter of whether or not he'll reach that level.


#3: Clem

Clem solidified his reign over Europe with his second straight regional title—now it's time to take aim at the rest of the world.

When you look at how handily Clem defeated Reynor and Serral in their battles over the last year, his TvZ really seems to exist on an entirely different plane from the rest of the StarCraft II scene. However, Clem's TvT and TvP are 'merely' excellent compared to his transcendent TvZ, and those two match-ups have been the reason he hasn't enjoyed more success in international tournaments so far.

Still, considering the rapid and consistent growth Clem displayed in 2020, one has to wonder if it's inevitable that he'll eventually be dominating the other two match-ups as well. Given the Terran and Protoss heavy composition of TSL7, we'll soon know if Clem is truly a world championship class player, or if we should briefly tap the brakes on the hype.

#2: Serral

Finally, we've arrived at a time and place where Serral isn't the odds-on championship favorite headed into a tournament. In late 2018, many fans would have picked the Finnish Phenom as the favorite versus the entire field of players in any given competition. Since then, his aura of invincibility has gradually faded away, with the rest of the StarCraft II scene catching up to him and creating this current era of chaos.

Still, long-time TL.net readers will know we're big on giving credit for past accomplishments, and few players have accomplished more than Serral in the past couple of years. Oddly, my mind immediately goes back to WESG 2019, when INnoVation came 'out of nowhere' to defeat Serral in the $100,000+ grand finals, proving that there was a timeless quality to his greatness. Perhaps now, it's Serral's time to pull an INnoVation himself, and teach the kids a lesson about what it means to play championship-class StarCraft.


#1: Trap

If this were a tournament with a $20,000+ first place prize, then Trap would definitely have been placed lower in the rankings. But with a $9,000 first place prize, TSL7 falls into the category of tournaments that are truly in Trap's wheelhouse. Since last December, Trap has won five out of six events that were held at a similar scale (NeXT Winter, three Super Tournaments, and DH Last Chance—but NOT TSL6), proving the quality of his play to the world.

Protoss greats have generally been defined by their specialized skills, be it the micro of MC and PartinG, the defense of Stats and Rain, or the creativity of sOs and Has. Trap is the closest thing we have to a Protoss version of Maru or Rogue, who's equally deadly at every stage of the game.

The problem with Trap isn't his gameplay—it's his mentality. Typically, I'm loath to speculate too much about a player's state of mind—there's so much variance baked into StarCraft II that we don't need to resort to half-baked psychoanalysis to explain why someone lost. But after Trap's complete meltdown at IEM Katowice, and the disastrous reverse-sweep he gave up to Maru in the Code S semifinals, what else can we do but look to outside-the-game factors?

It's harder than ever to make predictions in this era of parity, but Trap does seem like the strongest all-around player in TSL7 if he can play at his absolute best level. This tournament could be the perfect chance for Trap to take inventory of his failures and successes, re-center his mindset, and show us the amazing StarCraft II he's capable of.




Writer: Wax
Images: TeamLiquid
Statistics and records: Liquipedia and Aligulac.com

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TL+ Member
ByDa
Profile Joined January 2021
Germany5 Posts
June 12 2021 07:29 GMT
#2
Wonderful PowerRank <3 Thank you for the Write-Up Wax.
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1238 Posts
June 12 2021 07:35 GMT
#3
Damn Wax take it easy, people are going to think I wrote this article without looking at the credits
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
June 12 2021 07:37 GMT
#4
Good ranking, I think vs non EU players Serral is still the most proven so I agree with this. Trap first is fine as well, but I honestly expect Dark to do pretty well too. Indeed, I could easily see Dark as the last Korean standing and potentially winning.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33367 Posts
June 12 2021 07:43 GMT
#5
I'm really enjoying the era of parity, and I think any ordering of the top four players could make sense, depending on your point of view.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
dbRic1203
Profile Joined July 2019
Germany2655 Posts
June 12 2021 10:28 GMT
#6
This can t be right, Wax putting Has in last place?
Are you ok?
MaxPax
StarcraftPeffo
Profile Joined May 2019
Italy66 Posts
June 12 2021 11:16 GMT
#7
Lol
Howard_Kao
Profile Joined September 2018
China261 Posts
June 12 2021 11:25 GMT
#8
Wait, I just found out INno didn't even play the qualifiers for tsl7?
"You don't need a gsl champion, you don't need a esl champion. I feel like I'm just a normal man. I just practice very hard this time, like 15hrs everyday" Oliveira 2023
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10304 Posts
June 12 2021 11:31 GMT
#9
Soul might pull a Thorzain if he plays his best
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
dysenterymd
Profile Joined January 2019
1207 Posts
June 12 2021 13:21 GMT
#10
I agree with Serral so high but only because Armani is the only Zerg in his half of the bracket.
Serral | Inno | sOs | soO | Has | Classic
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
June 12 2021 13:49 GMT
#11
On June 12 2021 20:25 Howard_Kao wrote:
Wait, I just found out INno didn't even play the qualifiers for tsl7?

neither did Maru
Faker is the GOAT!
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-12 15:43:46
June 12 2021 15:30 GMT
#12
Without looking at the bracket, if you look at the players that everyone has to 'dodge' to win then I think Trap, Reynor and Dark should be the top three.

Trap: Underdog vs Serral and Reynor
Reynor: Probably can't beat Clem
Dark: Probably can't beat Clem, underdog vs Trap

Serral: Probably can't beat Clem, underdog vs Reynor and Dark
Clem: Probably can't beat Trap, underdog vs Zest, Cure and maybe Zoun as well
Cure: Probably can't beat Serral, underdog vs Trap, Reynor and Dark
Zest: Probably can't beat Serral and Reynor, underdog vs Trap and Dark

But then if you include the bracket, Clem/Cure and Dark/Reynor most likely meet in the second round if nothing weird happens, and the losers of those matches will have to fight a long way through the lower bracket. In comparison, Serral and Trap appear to have a much easier path laid out to the semifinals, so perhaps it does make sense to put them as the top two overall.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
conormcgregor156
Profile Joined June 2020
22 Posts
June 12 2021 15:48 GMT
#13
On June 13 2021 00:30 FuRong wrote:
Without looking at the bracket, if you look at the players that everyone has to 'dodge' to win then I think Trap, Reynor and Dark should be the top three.

Trap: Underdog vs Serral and Reynor
Reynor: Probably can't beat Clem
Dark: Probably can't beat Clem, underdog vs Trap

Serral: Probably can't beat Clem, underdog vs Reynor and Dark
Clem: Probably can't beat Trap, underdog vs Zest, Cure and maybe Zoun as well
Cure: Probably can't beat Serral, underdog vs Trap, Reynor and Dark
Zest: Probably can't beat Serral and Reynor, underdog vs Trap and Dark

But then if you include the bracket, Clem/Cure and Dark/Reynor most likely meet in the second round if nothing weird happens, and the losers of those matches will have to fight a long way through the lower bracket. In comparison, Serral and Trap appear to have a much easier path laid out to the semifinals, so perhaps it does make sense to put them as the top two overall.


Trap is underdog against Maru and Rogue, and I don't see them in the tournament.
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2214 Posts
June 12 2021 21:05 GMT
#14
Power rank ftw
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
Haku
Profile Joined August 2013
Germany550 Posts
June 12 2021 22:23 GMT
#15
On June 12 2021 16:35 Gemini_19 wrote:
Damn Wax take it easy, people are going to think I wrote this article without looking at the credits


Was so confused about Trap beeing #1 I literally went instantly to the credits and searched for your name.

Great write up Wax!
Jaedong | Life | MKP | PartinG | LosirA | ByuN | TaeJa | TY | TLO | Bomber | HerO | Rotti | Dark | Stephano | Maru | Ragnarok | MC | IdrA | Serral | Creator | Bunny | INnoVation | Liquid | Prime | JinAir
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10141 Posts
June 13 2021 04:33 GMT
#16
Loathe*
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2718 Posts
June 13 2021 04:48 GMT
#17
TIME the only player to upset the power rank on the first day. Excited to see what Sunday will bring!
very illegal and very uncool
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1238 Posts
June 13 2021 12:00 GMT
#18
On June 13 2021 00:48 conormcgregor156 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2021 00:30 FuRong wrote:
Without looking at the bracket, if you look at the players that everyone has to 'dodge' to win then I think Trap, Reynor and Dark should be the top three.

Trap: Underdog vs Serral and Reynor
Reynor: Probably can't beat Clem
Dark: Probably can't beat Clem, underdog vs Trap

Serral: Probably can't beat Clem, underdog vs Reynor and Dark
Clem: Probably can't beat Trap, underdog vs Zest, Cure and maybe Zoun as well
Cure: Probably can't beat Serral, underdog vs Trap, Reynor and Dark
Zest: Probably can't beat Serral and Reynor, underdog vs Trap and Dark

But then if you include the bracket, Clem/Cure and Dark/Reynor most likely meet in the second round if nothing weird happens, and the losers of those matches will have to fight a long way through the lower bracket. In comparison, Serral and Trap appear to have a much easier path laid out to the semifinals, so perhaps it does make sense to put them as the top two overall.


Trap is underdog against Maru and Rogue, and I don't see them in the tournament.


*laughs in Trap 16-3 map score record vs Rogue since July 2020 and Trap/Maru's all time dead even map and match score*
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
hyuu
Profile Joined August 2011
163 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-13 12:52:09
June 13 2021 12:51 GMT
#19
On June 13 2021 00:30 FuRong wrote:
Without looking at the bracket, if you look at the players that everyone has to 'dodge' to win then I think Trap, Reynor and Dark should be the top three.

Trap: Underdog vs Serral and Reynor
Reynor: Probably can't beat Clem
Dark: Probably can't beat Clem, underdog vs Trap

Serral: Probably can't beat Clem, underdog vs Reynor and Dark
Clem: Probably can't beat Trap, underdog vs Zest, Cure and maybe Zoun as well
Cure: Probably can't beat Serral, underdog vs Trap, Reynor and Dark
Zest: Probably can't beat Serral and Reynor, underdog vs Trap and Dark

But then if you include the bracket, Clem/Cure and Dark/Reynor most likely meet in the second round if nothing weird happens, and the losers of those matches will have to fight a long way through the lower bracket. In comparison, Serral and Trap appear to have a much easier path laid out to the semifinals, so perhaps it does make sense to put them as the top two overall.


I would not consider Clem in a 'probably can't beat Trap' state, considering he won the last time they met. Maybe underdog but a close one
TentativePanda
Profile Joined August 2014
United States800 Posts
June 13 2021 14:31 GMT
#20
Nice power rank. Personally, I'd place Clem at the top though
tommey.liang
Profile Joined November 2020
United States362 Posts
June 13 2021 15:01 GMT
#21
Great write-up.
FF, KH, Persona, Uncharted, Yakuza | Porter, Illenium, MitiS, Dabin, Seven Lions, Petit Biscuit | Diablo II, SC2 | Pho, sushi, tacos
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25161 Posts
June 13 2021 18:12 GMT
#22
Great write up, miss more frequently general power ranks though can we get one of those sometime?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2718 Posts
June 13 2021 21:58 GMT
#23
Another power rank upset today in Zest > Serral. PR still holding strong 5/6 times tho, and the upsets have been within a difference of 3 positions.
very illegal and very uncool
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33367 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-27 22:29:47
June 27 2021 22:28 GMT
#24
guess I was right or wrong!

+ Show Spoiler [finals results] +
right

Even though Power Rank isn't supposed to be a prediction of the final standings I'll just pretend it was
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-27 23:03:33
June 27 2021 23:01 GMT
#25
Serral is having trouble proving he is #3 in Europe right now, certainly not #2 in a field with Koreans. Reynor was right when he said people don't respect him even when he's playing better than Serral(which has been the case for the whole year). Trap has been great as usual. The eye test shows its an amazing streak, i'm sure a number cruncher could back that up.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-27 23:07:01
June 27 2021 23:03 GMT
#26
Trap being No 1 was right
He had a winning record against everyone he played in the tourney and tied with Reynor in map wins against each other.
Faker is the GOAT!
Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States831 Posts
June 27 2021 23:34 GMT
#27
On June 28 2021 08:01 Morbidius wrote:
Serral is having trouble proving he is #3 in Europe right now, certainly not #2 in a field with Koreans. Reynor was right when he said people don't respect him even when he's playing better than Serral(which has been the case for the whole year). Trap has been great as usual. The eye test shows its an amazing streak, i'm sure a number cruncher could back that up.

Until Clem consistently beats Korean Protoss's he wont be better overall than Serral, even if he has his number in the TvZ matchup. Reynor/Serral > Clem > Showtime/Lambo/Heromarine imo.
You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-27 23:49:11
June 27 2021 23:43 GMT
#28
On June 28 2021 08:34 Husyelt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2021 08:01 Morbidius wrote:
Serral is having trouble proving he is #3 in Europe right now, certainly not #2 in a field with Koreans. Reynor was right when he said people don't respect him even when he's playing better than Serral(which has been the case for the whole year). Trap has been great as usual. The eye test shows its an amazing streak, i'm sure a number cruncher could back that up.

Until Clem consistently beats Korean Protoss's he wont be better overall than Serral, even if he has his number in the TvZ matchup. Reynor/Serral > Clem > Showtime/Lambo/Heromarine imo.

Hot take to say the guy who won 2 non region locked premiers(WC included) this year isn't better than the guy who didn't make season finals coming from Europe. Sure you can respect Serral's history but there isn't any convincing argument for Serral being an S class player right now other than his history.
Also i don't even know what to say about the ''korean protoss'' argument, is sweeping Zoun twice better than wins over Zest and Trap?
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-27 23:56:01
June 27 2021 23:55 GMT
#29
On June 28 2021 08:43 Morbidius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2021 08:34 Husyelt wrote:
On June 28 2021 08:01 Morbidius wrote:
Serral is having trouble proving he is #3 in Europe right now, certainly not #2 in a field with Koreans. Reynor was right when he said people don't respect him even when he's playing better than Serral(which has been the case for the whole year). Trap has been great as usual. The eye test shows its an amazing streak, i'm sure a number cruncher could back that up.

Until Clem consistently beats Korean Protoss's he wont be better overall than Serral, even if he has his number in the TvZ matchup. Reynor/Serral > Clem > Showtime/Lambo/Heromarine imo.

Hot take to say the guy who won 2 non region locked premiers(WC included) this year isn't better than the guy who didn't make season finals coming from Europe. Sure you can respect Serral's history but there isn't any convincing argument for Serral being an S class player right now other than his history.
Also i don't even know what to say about the ''korean protoss'' argument, is sweeping Zoun twice better than wins over Zest and Trap?

I mean losing to Cure and Zest is certainly not a deal-breaker
Faker is the GOAT!
Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States831 Posts
June 28 2021 00:36 GMT
#30
On June 28 2021 08:43 Morbidius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2021 08:34 Husyelt wrote:
On June 28 2021 08:01 Morbidius wrote:
Serral is having trouble proving he is #3 in Europe right now, certainly not #2 in a field with Koreans. Reynor was right when he said people don't respect him even when he's playing better than Serral(which has been the case for the whole year). Trap has been great as usual. The eye test shows its an amazing streak, i'm sure a number cruncher could back that up.

Until Clem consistently beats Korean Protoss's he wont be better overall than Serral, even if he has his number in the TvZ matchup. Reynor/Serral > Clem > Showtime/Lambo/Heromarine imo.

Hot take to say the guy who won 2 non region locked premiers(WC included) this year isn't better than the guy who didn't make season finals coming from Europe. Sure you can respect Serral's history but there isn't any convincing argument for Serral being an S class player right now other than his history.
Also i don't even know what to say about the ''korean protoss'' argument, is sweeping Zoun twice better than wins over Zest and Trap?

No need to get hot and bothered. Going out in a ZvZ is not indicative of any thing. I would take Serral's chances in a premiere tourney to get farther than Clem any day of the week. He's still overall a more solid player at this point. But Clem has the potential of eclipsing both him and Reynor for sure.
You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4405 Posts
June 28 2021 00:58 GMT
#31
On June 28 2021 09:36 Husyelt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2021 08:43 Morbidius wrote:
On June 28 2021 08:34 Husyelt wrote:
On June 28 2021 08:01 Morbidius wrote:
Serral is having trouble proving he is #3 in Europe right now, certainly not #2 in a field with Koreans. Reynor was right when he said people don't respect him even when he's playing better than Serral(which has been the case for the whole year). Trap has been great as usual. The eye test shows its an amazing streak, i'm sure a number cruncher could back that up.

Until Clem consistently beats Korean Protoss's he wont be better overall than Serral, even if he has his number in the TvZ matchup. Reynor/Serral > Clem > Showtime/Lambo/Heromarine imo.

Hot take to say the guy who won 2 non region locked premiers(WC included) this year isn't better than the guy who didn't make season finals coming from Europe. Sure you can respect Serral's history but there isn't any convincing argument for Serral being an S class player right now other than his history.
Also i don't even know what to say about the ''korean protoss'' argument, is sweeping Zoun twice better than wins over Zest and Trap?

No need to get hot and bothered. Going out in a ZvZ is not indicative of any thing. I would take Serral's chances in a premiere tourney to get farther than Clem any day of the week. He's still overall a more solid player at this point. But Clem has the potential of eclipsing both him and Reynor for sure.


Serral didn't go out in a ZvZ in either of the premier tournaments that just ended.
Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States831 Posts
June 28 2021 01:01 GMT
#32
On June 28 2021 09:58 JJH777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2021 09:36 Husyelt wrote:
On June 28 2021 08:43 Morbidius wrote:
On June 28 2021 08:34 Husyelt wrote:
On June 28 2021 08:01 Morbidius wrote:
Serral is having trouble proving he is #3 in Europe right now, certainly not #2 in a field with Koreans. Reynor was right when he said people don't respect him even when he's playing better than Serral(which has been the case for the whole year). Trap has been great as usual. The eye test shows its an amazing streak, i'm sure a number cruncher could back that up.

Until Clem consistently beats Korean Protoss's he wont be better overall than Serral, even if he has his number in the TvZ matchup. Reynor/Serral > Clem > Showtime/Lambo/Heromarine imo.

Hot take to say the guy who won 2 non region locked premiers(WC included) this year isn't better than the guy who didn't make season finals coming from Europe. Sure you can respect Serral's history but there isn't any convincing argument for Serral being an S class player right now other than his history.
Also i don't even know what to say about the ''korean protoss'' argument, is sweeping Zoun twice better than wins over Zest and Trap?

No need to get hot and bothered. Going out in a ZvZ is not indicative of any thing. I would take Serral's chances in a premiere tourney to get farther than Clem any day of the week. He's still overall a more solid player at this point. But Clem has the potential of eclipsing both him and Reynor for sure.


Serral didn't go out in a ZvZ in either of the premier tournaments that just ended.

I was referring to the he didnt even get to the EU finals, he not the top 3 EU claim. Zest beating him 3-1 was surprising for sure.
You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
dysenterymd
Profile Joined January 2019
1207 Posts
June 28 2021 02:15 GMT
#33
There aren't honestly that many "S" class players this year, (almost) everyone is really inconsistent. I'd say Rogue, Maru, Reynor, and Trap are in a tier of their own this year, while the next pack would be like Serral/Zest/Clem/Cure/Dark in no particular order. I'd still favor Serral to advance further than Clem in a tournament with Koreans just because I think he's still better versus Terran and Protoss than Clem, but Clem is much better at European tournaments so Clem vs Serral can be argued either way.
Serral | Inno | sOs | soO | Has | Classic
parksonsc
Profile Joined May 2019
175 Posts
June 28 2021 03:57 GMT
#34
So basically in any upcoming premier tournaments in this year:

- If Reynor/Serral faces Clem: they are dead.
- If Clem faces S-tier Korean Terran/Protoss: he is dead.
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-28 09:28:13
June 28 2021 09:25 GMT
#35
On June 28 2021 12:57 parksonsc wrote:
So basically in any upcoming premier tournaments in this year:

- If Reynor/Serral faces Clem: they are dead.
- If Clem faces S-tier Korean Terran/Protoss: he is dead.

and Neeb

also, who said Serral isn't top 3? the top 3 of Europe are literally Serral/Clem/Reynor in no particular order
Faker is the GOAT!
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