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55566 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:26 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 22:07 Elentos wrote:On October 14 2020 21:59 Xain0n wrote:
Why would this change in rules make Risky retire?
He could still play in Europe. Risky probably thinks his level isn't enough to actually make a decent living as a progamer if he is forced to play EU in everything. I really don't like the tone of his message, nobody is forcing him to quit.
Nobody is forcing him, that's true. But it's much easier to make a living as a pro who is top 3 in a region (Risky in OCE) than as a pro who is maybe let's say top 30-40 (Risky in EU). It's like a Korean making the consideration of "I'd like to be a pro but is it worth it to keep trying if I don't get into Code S?"
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On October 14 2020 21:45 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Looking pretty perfect!
Haha you guys couldn't beat Razerblader and Risky so you whine to blizzard to change it. Your scene is a joke.
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On October 14 2020 22:36 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 22:26 Xain0n wrote:On October 14 2020 22:07 Elentos wrote:On October 14 2020 21:59 Xain0n wrote:
Why would this change in rules make Risky retire?
He could still play in Europe. Risky probably thinks his level isn't enough to actually make a decent living as a progamer if he is forced to play EU in everything. I really don't like the tone of his message, nobody is forcing him to quit. Nobody is forcing him, that's true. But it's much easier to make a living as a pro who is top 3 in a region (Risky in OCE) than as a pro who is maybe let's say top 30-40 (Risky in EU). It's like a Korean making the consideration of "I'd like to be a pro but is it worth it to keep trying if I don't get into Code S?"
That would be Risky's decision. While reasonable, it would be Risky himself admitting he's not good enough to find success in Europe(tactually the region he lives in); the melodramatic/whiny tone seems out of place to me.
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55566 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:48 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 22:36 Elentos wrote:On October 14 2020 22:26 Xain0n wrote:On October 14 2020 22:07 Elentos wrote:On October 14 2020 21:59 Xain0n wrote:
Why would this change in rules make Risky retire?
He could still play in Europe. Risky probably thinks his level isn't enough to actually make a decent living as a progamer if he is forced to play EU in everything. I really don't like the tone of his message, nobody is forcing him to quit. Nobody is forcing him, that's true. But it's much easier to make a living as a pro who is top 3 in a region (Risky in OCE) than as a pro who is maybe let's say top 30-40 (Risky in EU). It's like a Korean making the consideration of "I'd like to be a pro but is it worth it to keep trying if I don't get into Code S?" That would be Risky's decision. While reasonable, it would be Risky himself admitting he's not good enough to find success in Europe(tactually the region he lives in); the melodramatic/whiny tone seems out of place to me.
Well he's dealing with a pretty hard situation wouldn't you say? ESL are making a global rule change because the OCE scene has convinced them Risky playing from the UK is even worse than the Korean invasion of WCS NA/EU back in HotS. Hard to take that one in I'd say.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:33 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 21:53 deacon.frost wrote:
So Risky is eligible to play only if he moves for the games to the NZ? uhhhh... sucks for him, but generally this is probably better and I wouldn't say it was built around him. No, he's still eligible to play, he just needs to play in the region he's in. The only reason he doesn't is because it gives him an advantage to get more money and points.
I obviously meant in the NZ region, as for some reason he's not playing in the EU region 
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On October 14 2020 22:54 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 22:48 Xain0n wrote:On October 14 2020 22:36 Elentos wrote:On October 14 2020 22:26 Xain0n wrote:On October 14 2020 22:07 Elentos wrote:On October 14 2020 21:59 Xain0n wrote:
Why would this change in rules make Risky retire?
He could still play in Europe. Risky probably thinks his level isn't enough to actually make a decent living as a progamer if he is forced to play EU in everything. I really don't like the tone of his message, nobody is forcing him to quit. Nobody is forcing him, that's true. But it's much easier to make a living as a pro who is top 3 in a region (Risky in OCE) than as a pro who is maybe let's say top 30-40 (Risky in EU). It's like a Korean making the consideration of "I'd like to be a pro but is it worth it to keep trying if I don't get into Code S?" That would be Risky's decision. While reasonable, it would be Risky himself admitting he's not good enough to find success in Europe(tactually the region he lives in); the melodramatic/whiny tone seems out of place to me. Well he's dealing with a pretty hard situation wouldn't you say? ESL are making a global rule change because the OCE scene has convinced them Risky playing from the UK is even worse than the Korean invasion of WCS NA/EU back in HotS. Hard to take that one in I'd say.
Risky's situation would still be pretty standard and better than the one of any european Zerg with comparable skill since he could still theorically fly to ANZ to play there.
If anything, Risky's situation is very advantageous as things stand now; not his fault, of course, the rules allow it.
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Just weird entitlement from both Risky and the Aus players. You are all relatively bad at the game. Just get better and be competitive. The region is embarrassing to watch the games. Most of them wouldnt make NA GM. Instead of relying on handouts or giving up, just get better at the game.
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On October 14 2020 22:30 CreightonOlsen wrote:Show nested quote +Wait until you see the whole picture next year, we shared insight on potential plans to help provide transparency without the full context of next year. It will all make sense soon. Apollo's second tweet here is by far the most interesting part of this story. We can squabble over minutia for DH: Winter, but this seems to suggest there's a lot going on under the hood that we're not privy to yet. I think it would be foolish to rush to a long-term judgement on the health of the scene before we hear what's coming. Prediction: It's big.
If that's the case, then seeking feedback on these changes without any of us knowing the rest of the context is not very useful or helpful at all. We can only give feedback based on what we're told.
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On October 14 2020 22:26 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 22:07 Elentos wrote:On October 14 2020 21:59 Xain0n wrote:
Why would this change in rules make Risky retire?
He could still play in Europe. Risky probably thinks his level isn't enough to actually make a decent living as a progamer if he is forced to play EU in everything. I really don't like the tone of his message, nobody is forcing him to quit.
It's easier to compete/acquire $ in the oceanic/aus region compared to eu.
Seems logical to me and I don't blame him for retiring if that's the case.
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This is pretty crazy to me, the OCE scene is so bad and they whine so hard about a mid/bottom tier european pro who has a passport for the region competing, the fact it's actually being changed is crazy
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On October 14 2020 23:42 Comedy wrote:
This is pretty crazy to me, the OCE scene is so bad and they whine so hard about a mid/bottom tier european pro who has a passport for the region competing, the fact it's actually being changed is crazy
He doesn't just have a passport. He's a citizen of New Zealand. He's quite literally a citizen of OCE
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On October 14 2020 23:26 1gragequit wrote:
Just weird entitlement from both Risky and the Aus players. You are all relatively bad at the game. Just get better and be competitive. The region is embarrassing to watch the games. Most of them wouldnt make NA GM. Instead of relying on handouts or giving up, just get better at the game.
I m pretty sure, most of the guys, actually making it into the main DH Aus/RoA Event are actually somewhere around 6k MMR. While that is obviously way better than "nOt EveN gM!!" They are obviously not even closely on the same level as Players from Regions like Korean, EU, NA or even China.
I m not to sure about the bottom tier Players from TW and LA, though.
I actually like that ESL tries to keep the regions alive. As without any region lock, pretty much every scene but Korea and EU would be insta dead and with how important the Chinese Market for SC2 as a whole is, that would obviously pretty bad news. Also any other traditional sport has national/ continental Championships as well, so having the same system in SC2 is great IMO.
I agree with the point, that they should relax a bit, afaik the guys, actually complaining the loudest about Risky, arent even full time, but do SC2 more as a hobby. So they don t depend on it for a living.
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On October 14 2020 22:36 Luolis wrote:Haha you guys couldn't beat Razerblader and Risky so you whine to blizzard to change it. Your scene is a joke.
They both got rekt last season dude
On October 14 2020 23:26 1gragequit wrote:
Just weird entitlement from both Risky and the Aus players. You are all relatively bad at the game. Just get better and be competitive. The region is embarrassing to watch the games. Most of them wouldnt make NA GM. Instead of relying on handouts or giving up, just get better at the game.
This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this site.
RiSky was Top 16 EU GM at one point, all the top players in our region are over 6k on Korea/NA. "Most of them wouldn't make NA GM" lol why even open your mouth if you have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about???
Also please continue to stay mad that ESL asked for feedback, we provided feedback, and ESL agreed that something needed to change.
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On October 14 2020 22:30 CreightonOlsen wrote:Show nested quote +Wait until you see the whole picture next year, we shared insight on potential plans to help provide transparency without the full context of next year. It will all make sense soon. Apollo's second tweet here is by far the most interesting part of this story. We can squabble over minutia for DH: Winter, but this seems to suggest there's a lot going on under the hood that we're not privy to yet. I think it would be foolish to rush to a long-term judgement on the health of the scene before we hear what's coming. Prediction: It's big.
Very interesting indeed. At the time of the initial announcement of the EPT, Apollo already said that they wanted to look at the old region lock system but there wasn't time to do it on short notice. Instead that would have to happen for the 2021 season.
Then corona happened, and we got a taste of what a non-region locked system could look like with DH Masters season finals. Surely this is the system we get going forward: region locked qualifiers for S-tier tournaments (with the season finals taking place at the Dreamhack events). And the overall EPT points ranking would probably also be divided into the many regions that exist for DH events.
It would be extremely strange to see them return to the 2016-2019 two-tiered system.
The question then is what role the GSL should have. In my opinion it is fine to keep it open since it taking place over so long time "shields" the Korean scene somewhat. ESL could then adjust the number of qualification spots the GSL has according to how many non-Koreans participate.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:30 CreightonOlsen wrote:Show nested quote +Wait until you see the whole picture next year, we shared insight on potential plans to help provide transparency without the full context of next year. It will all make sense soon. Apollo's second tweet here is by far the most interesting part of this story. We can squabble over minutia for DH: Winter, but this seems to suggest there's a lot going on under the hood that we're not privy to yet. I think it would be foolish to rush to a long-term judgement on the health of the scene before we hear what's coming. Prediction: It's big.
Perhaps, for sure. If that were the case I’d personally prefer it if the options being mulled over were being more publicly aired, if only to prevent kneejerk speculation.
I think Apollo and his boys know what they’re doing, I like what they’ve done with the SC2 calendar thus far, despite being hamstrung by Covid. The weeklies feeding into the overall circuit standings was a great move and gives both observers like myself and content creators like yourself a constant stream of quality, meaningful Starcraft to mull over. So I have a lot of faith in the ESL folks.
I’m just not really a fan of announcements of announcements in this particular manner.
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On October 15 2020 00:02 RPR_Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 22:36 Luolis wrote:On October 14 2020 21:45 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Looking pretty perfect! Haha you guys couldn't beat Razerblader and Risky so you whine to blizzard to change it. Your scene is a joke. They both got rekt last season dude Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 23:26 1gragequit wrote:
Just weird entitlement from both Risky and the Aus players. You are all relatively bad at the game. Just get better and be competitive. The region is embarrassing to watch the games. Most of them wouldnt make NA GM. Instead of relying on handouts or giving up, just get better at the game. This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this site. RiSky was Top 16 EU GM at one point, all the top players in our region are over 6k on Korea/NA. "Most of them wouldn't make NA GM" lol why even open your mouth if you have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about??? Also please continue to stay mad that ESL asked for feedback, we provided feedback, and ESL agreed that something needed to change.
As a spectator, I found the whole schtick not so amusing either way.
Strictly speaking 6k now doesn't mean a lot of things now. It's not especially a high bar to reach except for the NA region at times. The rules had to be looked at but many corners of the Australian scene should never have flamed Risky. If someone was to be "blamed", it should have been solely the ESL organization.
Now what I'd like to see is whether the OCE region will be able to regularly compete with the best of the rest of the world like they used to in the past. Looking at some of the older matches involving iaguz vs for instance, Has. Given what I saw of Probe in the season finals, not being very optimistic about it for the near future. If there should be a level up, regional lockouts are a thing, but there should be no other handouts whatsoever.
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On October 15 2020 01:20 Philippe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2020 00:02 RPR_Tempest wrote:On October 14 2020 22:36 Luolis wrote:On October 14 2020 21:45 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Looking pretty perfect! Haha you guys couldn't beat Razerblader and Risky so you whine to blizzard to change it. Your scene is a joke. They both got rekt last season dude On October 14 2020 23:26 1gragequit wrote:
Just weird entitlement from both Risky and the Aus players. You are all relatively bad at the game. Just get better and be competitive. The region is embarrassing to watch the games. Most of them wouldnt make NA GM. Instead of relying on handouts or giving up, just get better at the game. This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this site. RiSky was Top 16 EU GM at one point, all the top players in our region are over 6k on Korea/NA. "Most of them wouldn't make NA GM" lol why even open your mouth if you have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about??? Also please continue to stay mad that ESL asked for feedback, we provided feedback, and ESL agreed that something needed to change. As a spectator, I found the whole schtick not so amusing either way. Strictly speaking 6k now doesn't mean a lot of things now. It's not especially a high bar to reach except for the NA region at times. The rules had to be looked at but many corners of the Australian scene should never have flamed Risky. If someone was to be "blamed", it should have been solely the ESL organization. Now what I'd like to see is whether the OCE region will be able to regularly compete with the best of the rest of the world like they used to in the past. Looking at some of the older matches involving iaguz vs for instance, Has. Given what I saw of Probe in the season finals, not being very optimistic about it for the near future. If there should be a level up, regional lockouts are a thing, but there should be no other handouts whatsoever.
It's a lot harder for the current OCE players to distinguish themselves. In the past with iaguz, Petraeus, PiG, etc they went to tournaments that were more open, and got to compete against international pros of various skill levels. Now the player from our region who manages to qualify is against quite literally the best in the world. The best from EU, KR, NA, etc. It's rough going out there. Best they can realistically hope for is to beat the TW rep, IMO. Probe has had series where he's looked really good in the past (Like his 2-3 at LAN against Neeb when Neeb was at his peak form) and I think a lot of his games he does look quite good, but you can tell he's lacking just the refinement that the higher level pros have, and missing a real killer instinct.
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It's a lot harder for the current OCE players to distinguish themselves. In the past with iaguz, Petraeus, PiG, etc they went to tournaments that were more open, and got to compete against international pros of various skill levels. Now the player from our region who manages to qualify is against quite literally the best in the world. The best from EU, KR, NA, etc. It's rough going out there. Best they can realistically hope for is to beat the TW rep, IMO. Probe has had series where he's looked really good in the past (Like his 2-3 at LAN against Neeb when Neeb was at his peak form) and I think a lot of his games he does look quite good, but you can tell he's lacking just the refinement that the higher level pros have, and missing a real killer instinct.
Saw that. There's no miracle solution about it but there's steps to try at least reduce it. I saw Seither trying to get the feel of the NA server several seasons ago, and Pezz doing it now (I think Azure does that too), and Probe in the KR one. It's not a bad step to try reducing that gap, but I'd like to see some OCE players currently duking it out in the EU server. Maybe it's already the case, but then I didn't see that.
I repeat if needed : ESL had to move at one point. What I'm more afraid of is that it results in players retreating back to more comfort instead of using that push as a springboard to be more adventurous. I don't know, mixing out cheese between more traditional games, doing allins, etc. (not something I see that often)
Now it's only my opinion and if players do feel it different, I won't blame them. It's mostly what I think would be better. And hoping everybody will move on from all this mess.
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Oceania should be lumped together with Asia. Having them separate allows players to get rankings that they haven't earned.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Is GSL counted as part of it? (some restrictions were already in place due to its offline nature, but still)
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EPT
