Should Protoss have a guest house?
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CicadaSC
United States845 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
I doubt we're going to get them anytime soon though given that: - the community doesn't seem to like pocket nats much. - the next three map pools are already basically set | ||
starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On September 27 2020 13:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Pocket nats, and in particular harassable/droppable pocket nats (e.g. Dusk Towers, 16-bit, Acolyte, Honorgrounds, Vaani Research Station [in LotV]) have historically been good for Protoss in PvZ and mostly good for Terrans in the other non-mirrors. So yeah I absolutely do think that maps like those would help P/T against Zerg. I doubt we're going to get them anytime soon though given that: - the community doesn't seem to like pocket nats much. - the next three map pools are already basically set I have so many good memories from Vaani lol | ||
Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
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Blargh
United States2074 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States845 Posts
On September 27 2020 15:56 Blargh wrote: Personally, I thought those 'free' naturals were lame and I hated every one of those maps at all points of SC2. Even as a Zerg, where it was generally advantageous. guest house bases do not favor zerg. an example of a good map with it would be Backwater LE | ||
Durnuu
13271 Posts
On September 27 2020 14:08 starkiller123 wrote: I have so many good memories from Vaani lol Vaani was basically the only good map with a pocket natural, because it made up for the easy natural with a very open third base. Nimbus was also decent in that regard, the pocket natural being on high ground and the 3rd being open. Recent in-base naturals like 16-bit, Acolyte, had a free natural but also very easy to take 3rd, and even 4th bases, making them a snoozefest | ||
ThunderJunk
United States577 Posts
On September 27 2020 13:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Pocket nats, and in particular harassable/droppable pocket nats (e.g. Dusk Towers, 16-bit, Acolyte, Honorgrounds, Vaani Research Station [in LotV]) have historically been good for Protoss in PvZ and mostly good for Terrans in the other non-mirrors. So yeah I absolutely do think that maps like those would help P/T against Zerg. I doubt we're going to get them anytime soon though given that: - the community doesn't seem to like pocket nats much. - the next three map pools are already basically set I think lots of people in the community like pocket nats. It just isn't the majority. But if you have, say, 35% of players that enjoy pocket naturals, wouldn't it be prudent to have, say, 1/7 maps in the map pool have pocket nats? (35% isn't a far-fetched figure. I remember a solid 26% of people reported they like Scrap Station in a poll this year lol) Just wondering how do you know the next three map pools are already set? | ||
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 28 2020 01:43 ThunderJunk wrote: I think lots of people in the community like pocket nats. It just isn't the majority. But if you have, say, 35% of players that enjoy pocket naturals, wouldn't it be prudent to have, say, 1/7 maps in the map pool have pocket nats? (35% isn't a far-fetched figure. I remember a solid 26% of people reported they like Scrap Station in a poll this year lol) Just wondering how do you know the next three map pools are already set? With one TLMC per year we're just going to get all the remaining maps from TLMC14 over the next three seasons, and none of those have pocket nats. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15717 Posts
On September 27 2020 15:35 Dedraterllaerau wrote: Just need to revert the 12 worker start, its one of the reasons zerg is so strong atm. It's A reason, but it's not the only one. You could make an argument it's the biggest reason and you might have a point. There's plenty of other things Blizz can do to knock Zerg down a peg. Pocket Nats are an idea. Smaller maps are an idea also. Making maps with more choke points and bottle necks is another idea. Personally, I think the easiest thing to do right now would be to just tone back the Viper a smidge. Zerg players have finally started using it universally in the late game and are starting to show just how powerful of a unit it actually is especially vs Protoss. Give Abduct a range nerf. Zergs have already gotten really good at chaining multiple abducts together which give its already high cast range of 9 much more effectiveness especially since the Viper can fly so there's no terrain restrictions on their movement and positioning. If you did that, Zerg would be noticeably weaker in the late game vs Protoss air comps. I'm not saying that's the best solution but it's definitely a lot easier than reverting core gameplay elements like the 12 worker start. | ||
AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
If a viper can drag a thor, it should cost the viper all of it's energy or a mothership. The idea that it costs the viper the same energy to drag a templar versus a mothership is a little nutty. If my idea is stupid, np. I like sky-defilers but I think that it looks kinda dumb when 9 of them can pull multiple drags on units that are as large as a hatchery. Or make it a energy-used spell, you cast it at 100, you get a drag so far, you do it at 150 and you get farther. Or make abduct require a release command, aka you abduct cool, but if you abduct and during the spell you viper runs out of energy, tongue ripped out if you don't cancel. If they can nerf parasitic bomb on motherships, they can do the simple work of making abduct cost energy depending on size or type. Just my ideas, feel free to have better ones. | ||
TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19033 Posts
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bela.mervado
Hungary335 Posts
Very simple idea: cost reduced 75->50 mana, units dragged for 8 cells, massive units dragged for 5 cells (half of current value). It's a buff for tank/cyclone/lib/immortal/lurker, nerf for carrier/tempest/momma/colossus/thor, and a slight overall buff against feedback. | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2169 Posts
What if it worked like a sort of tether? Viper abducts, and then the unit, lets say, colossus, starts walking towards the viper, at colosus walk speed. Same with a carrier for example, the carrier starts moving towards the viper. Sort of like a slow pull instead of an isntant one. Maybe the viper is "rooted" in place, or maybe you actually have to move the viper back to pull the unit. It wouldn't work on siege tanks anymore, but viper already have blinding cloud for that. And since units would walk, it would be time to feedback or focus the viper and have some counterplay, and not just an insta kill without any counterplay. | ||
ejozl
Denmark3169 Posts
On September 28 2020 06:09 [Phantom] wrote: What if abduct wasn't instant? What if it worked like a sort of tether? Viper abducts, and then the unit, lets say, colossus, starts walking towards the viper, at colosus walk speed. Same with a carrier for example, the carrier starts moving towards the viper. Sort of like a slow pull instead of an isntant one. Maybe the viper is "rooted" in place, or maybe you actually have to move the viper back to pull the unit. It wouldn't work on siege tanks anymore, but viper already have blinding cloud for that. And since units would walk, it would be time to feedback or focus the viper and have some counterplay, and not just an insta kill without any counterplay. I don't personally think Z is very strong atm, but I think this sort of a change would be good. I would just give it like a 0.5 sec cast time. That would also make it impossible to do the shift + double abduct, which looks stupid. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19033 Posts
On September 28 2020 06:27 ejozl wrote: I don't personally think Z is very strong atm, but I think this sort of a change would be good. I would just give it like a 0.5 sec cast time. That would also make it impossible to do the shift + double abduct, which looks stupid. I'd like the guardian shield to solve these problems. I think it should prevent "spells" from happening. Like a guardian shield could protect the army from 1(many)biles, abducts etc. In return the guardian shield duration is either shortened or canceled when hit with a spell while defending units under it. | ||
yubo56
662 Posts
On September 28 2020 06:09 [Phantom] wrote: What if abduct wasn't instant? What if it worked like a sort of tether? Viper abducts, and then the unit, lets say, colossus, starts walking towards the viper, at colosus walk speed. Same with a carrier for example, the carrier starts moving towards the viper. Sort of like a slow pull instead of an isntant one. Maybe the viper is "rooted" in place, or maybe you actually have to move the viper back to pull the unit. It wouldn't work on siege tanks anymore, but viper already have blinding cloud for that. And since units would walk, it would be time to feedback or focus the viper and have some counterplay, and not just an insta kill without any counterplay. I was thinking about this earlier today too, and I came to a similar conclusion, since abduct just leaves no room for in-the-moment counterplay. An abduct change like yours, along with a feedback range reversion, would be a step in the right direction in my opinion. Or, since neural can be used to do exactly what you're suggesting, it might work to delete abduct and buff neural to some extent to compensate. I think that most instant-reward spells produce quite binary interactions, so it would be nice to remove even more of these if possible, since other spells have really cool interactions: Spells w/ an animation - Raven disable, can be dodged sometimes like with a prism - Disruptor/HT/raven anti-armor, can be split against or target fired - Parasitic bomb/fungal/storm, splits (widow mines and banes to an extent) - New snipe in a sense due to the charging time, you can effectively only use it on a retreating army Compare w/ spells that are instant: - EMP/feedback has been very hard to balance in the past, though it's somewhat better now that P favor disruptor to counter the huge EMP range + feedback damage nerf - abduct/feedback, current case in point - old fungal - nexus overcharge - old time warp (compare w/ new time warp) - old snipe If the trio of EMP/feedback/abduct were all changed in some way to have a duration during which counterplay is possible (like you suggested), then I think the matchups might all feel a bit more dynamic. | ||
Xamo
Spain863 Posts
On September 28 2020 06:55 BisuDagger wrote: I'd like the guardian shield to solve these problems. I think it should prevent "spells" from happening. Like a guardian shield could protect the army from 1(many)biles, abducts etc. In return the guardian shield duration is either shortened or canceled when hit with a spell while defending units under it. What a cool and innovative idea... I think right now there is no ability that works just as spell defense, it is worth to explore more. Feedback kills spellcasters, but does not defend against spells. If all races would have some kind of spell defense, then spellcasters would not be as powerful. For that to work, I guess that the defense shouldn't be on a spellcaster, or should be on a "defensive" spellcaster like the sentry. | ||
Cricketer12
United States13831 Posts
On September 27 2020 13:33 CicadaSC wrote: So im not sure if this was suggested before but i wonder if u think protoss should have a guest house. by this i mean like a pocket base on maps where they can secure for free. i think if protoss can safely put on pressure without threat of sacrificing defense at home or economy back door will be a good buff. thoguhts? at first I thought this was memeing on the threads made after zest getting hit by drone drill yesterday...but then everyone took this seriously | ||
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