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For better or worse, this is our reality. The scene is smaller, but don’t make the mistake of thinking something is lessened simply because something is smaller. I’ve long been a pessimist, perhaps too preoccupied with thinking about the eventual end than finding joy in the present. StarCraft II is about those who play the game and those who support them. As long as you’re here it will never truly disappear. As long as people care it will hold a place in our hearts.
Well put - whether or not the scene dies depends on all of us now. Don't be discouraged because the scene isn't as big as it used to be, be encouraged that we've lasted 10 years already. Carry on the flame!
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Man 2015 Starcraft was the best, I probably watched the most games ever that year and I still couldn’t catch every single proleague or ssl game
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On August 02 2020 13:31 starkiller123 wrote:
Man 2015 Starcraft was the best, I probably watched the most games ever that year and I still couldn’t catch every single proleague or ssl game
Me too. I watched everything that year. Even prime proleague matches
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Wasn’t 2015 mostly HotS AND blink era? No thanks then, even though there were lot of leagues the game just wasn’t good
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On August 02 2020 07:43 Calliope wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2020 05:46 Waxangel wrote:On August 02 2020 05:44 Calliope wrote:
Sorry for a bit of a derail, but speaking of the good old days, does anyone remember that there was a player that people used to joke about being evil? A Korean, probably before 2015 (between 2010-2012 iirc). When he won people would draw his eyes red and write things like "evil wins" etc. Thinking back to it now I find it kind of hilarious that some poor guy was deemed to be evil but I just can't remember who it was. you prolly mean  sniper? stuchiu put the "evil" thing on him because he was a BL-infestor abuser, he was the guy who beat Eve in GSTL and made her cry (it was actually SlayerS' fault for playing a sub-pro level player at all; anyone was going to destroy her), he beat a number of fan-favorites to ruin fan hype, and some other stuff I forget Hah, yes, ty, that's got to be it. This is what 2020 SC2 is lacking, a villain.
I think Rogue is close to that role but he probably still has too many fans for that.
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On August 02 2020 07:43 Calliope wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2020 05:46 Waxangel wrote:On August 02 2020 05:44 Calliope wrote:
Sorry for a bit of a derail, but speaking of the good old days, does anyone remember that there was a player that people used to joke about being evil? A Korean, probably before 2015 (between 2010-2012 iirc). When he won people would draw his eyes red and write things like "evil wins" etc. Thinking back to it now I find it kind of hilarious that some poor guy was deemed to be evil but I just can't remember who it was. you prolly mean sniper? stuchiu put the "evil" thing on him because he was a BL-infestor abuser, he was the guy who beat Eve in GSTL and made her cry (it was actually SlayerS' fault for playing a sub-pro level player at all; anyone was going to destroy her), he beat a number of fan-favorites to ruin fan hype, and some other stuff I forget Hah, yes, ty, that's got to be it. This is what 2020 SC2 is lacking, a villain.
Lacking a villain? The way I see it, the last blizzcon had three out of four villains in the ro4. Our great hero Classic was the only reason why the four supervillains didn't sweep the tournament. Really these four are the true Four Horsemen, heralding the end of everything that is good in this world.
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Northern Ireland13720 Posts
On August 02 2020 17:32 Poopi wrote:
Wasn’t 2015 mostly HotS AND blink era? No thanks then, even though there were lot of leagues the game just wasn’t good
Alas the stars never align for SC. There are times when the tournament scene and depth of players was at its healthiest and the enjoyability was close to its lowest.
Some of that was due to players not figuring everything out of course, and SC2 has still always been a great competitive RTS.
Unrealistic to have all we have now being crammed in 10 years ago I guess, things could have been even bigger if we had more that we have now. The UI is way more polished, even if I still prefer Bnet 1. Co-op seems a great way for people who don’t want to commit to the competitive grind to get into the game etc etc.
Playing older campaigns even really brings into perspective how much more polished things are now, siege tanks and Immortals are way more intuitive to micro and control. Ok it’s not super common that this becomes a factor but it does feel nicer and I know the community had asked for that years and years ago.
Here’s to another 10 years hopefully! Or at least 5 with a prospect of SC3
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On August 02 2020 17:32 Poopi wrote:
Wasn’t 2015 mostly HotS AND blink era? No thanks then, even though there were lot of leagues the game just wasn’t good
I have no idea when I hear this type of discussion. The blink era was season 1 2014. HOTS was clearly a better game than Wings and the level of play in Korea at the time was really at its peak with the Kespa teams and two individual leagues running simultaneously alongside Proleague
I've watched Starcraft II for 9 years now and 2015 was definitely one of the peak years for hardcore fans because of the quality and quantity of games in Korea at the time.
There was so much quality content it was difficult to keep up at all. Even if you watched every morning of the week for months on end there seemed to be another great match on the horizon.
Comparing to the 2015 scene to the scene today is difficult, but I think the thinning of player talent has hurt the professional scene in Korea quite a bit. Losing many top players and many more mid-tier players really hurts the scene as a whole in my opinion.
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On August 02 2020 17:32 Poopi wrote:
Wasn’t 2015 mostly HotS AND blink era? No thanks then, even though there were lot of leagues the game just wasn’t good
Article
SC2 was great because of all the koreans leagues, and dream maru and life trading insane series after insane serirs
Poopi
dUh BluNK
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I might have the dates wrong, but I definitely remember this time as the SC2 dark ages. Many things were moving around in Korea, yes, but foreigner level was really bad. MorroW stream was carrying this time hard, or you'd have to watch Avilo or WinterSC at night.. The level in Korea was high, yes, but even Life, Dream and PartinG of that era would die to Serral now. I will say that both EU and Kr is too top heavy, but what we have now is so much more healthy. Koreans are allowed to stream and play online, so we have more content too. 2014 had some really magical tournament moments. WCS EU was a really good broadcast and we had Grubby stream. So yeah. I dno.
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On August 03 2020 03:48 ejozl wrote:
The level in Korea was high, yes, but even Life, Dream and PartinG of that era would die to Serral now.
Doubt it. Serral would have to practice the game in 2015 to learn the build orders and get used to everything like 6 worker start and different units and all sorts of balance changes. Once he does any practice in 2015, KeSPA with all their players and coaches would see his replays and take whatever lessons they can learn from the future knowledge. It's not like he could just show up in 2015 and win a GSL. Remember that many of the balance changes were designed to make skilled players appear even more impressive. Also I think korean players were more in-shape back then, they practiced more and lived in teamhouses and had coaches.
I think players like Dream, DRG, Parting coming back, and GSL shrinking down to just 24 players instead of 32, is showing that 2019 really was not the highest skill era and neither is 2020. Even Byun showed this a bit, I mean if he was so good and skill of the scene only goes upwards, then why didn't he dominate back in 2010 and 2011?
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On August 03 2020 04:52 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2020 03:48 ejozl wrote:
The level in Korea was high, yes, but even Life, Dream and PartinG of that era would die to Serral now. Doubt it. Serral would have to practice the game in 2015 to learn the build orders and get used to everything like 6 worker start and different units and all sorts of balance changes. Once he does any practice in 2015, KeSPA with all their players and coaches would see his replays and take whatever lessons they can learn from the future knowledge. It's not like he could just show up in 2015 and win a GSL. Remember that many of the balance changes were designed to make skilled players appear even more impressive. Also I think korean players were more in-shape back then, they practiced more and lived in teamhouses.
Yeah, it's not like Serral played the game in 2015 ":D"
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On August 03 2020 04:54 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2020 04:52 Die4Ever wrote:On August 03 2020 03:48 ejozl wrote:
The level in Korea was high, yes, but even Life, Dream and PartinG of that era would die to Serral now. Doubt it. Serral would have to practice the game in 2015 to learn the build orders and get used to everything like 6 worker start and different units and all sorts of balance changes. Once he does any practice in 2015, KeSPA with all their players and coaches would see his replays and take whatever lessons they can learn from the future knowledge. It's not like he could just show up in 2015 and win a GSL. Remember that many of the balance changes were designed to make skilled players appear even more impressive. Also I think korean players were more in-shape back then, they practiced more and lived in teamhouses. Yeah, it's not like Serral played the game in 2015 ":D"
remembering 2015 and practicing in 2015 are completely different things, you need to actually practice to get good again, he wasn't even that good back then so idk how recalling how he played in 2015 would help him that much.
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On August 03 2020 02:24 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2020 17:32 Poopi wrote:
Wasn’t 2015 mostly HotS AND blink era? No thanks then, even though there were lot of leagues the game just wasn’t good Article SC2 was great because of all the koreans leagues, and dream maru and life trading insane series after insane serirs Poopi dUh BluNK
There were korean leagues in 2016 as well and LotV was just a better game for all of its lifespan than HotS ever was imo.
But yeah the article is cool, korean leagues are the most interesting that's for sure.
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On August 03 2020 04:52 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2020 03:48 ejozl wrote:
The level in Korea was high, yes, but even Life, Dream and PartinG of that era would die to Serral now. Doubt it. Serral would have to practice the game in 2015 to learn the build orders and get used to everything like 6 worker start and different units and all sorts of balance changes. Once he does any practice in 2015, KeSPA with all their players and coaches would see his replays and take whatever lessons they can learn from the future knowledge. It's not like he could just show up in 2015 and win a GSL. Remember that many of the balance changes were designed to make skilled players appear even more impressive. Also I think korean players were more in-shape back then, they practiced more and lived in teamhouses and had coaches. I think players like Dream, DRG, Parting coming back, and GSL shrinking down to just 24 players instead of 32, is showing that 2019 really was not the highest skill era and neither is 2020. Even Byun showed this a bit, I mean if he was so good and skill of the scene only goes upwards, then why didn't he dominate back in 2010 and 2011?
I didn't make up a story about him going back and beating them, I'm comparing his skill with theirs. I think preparation was much stronger back then and players were under strict regiments to try and eek out as much of their performance as possible for short-term benefits. 5 years is a LOT to hone your finger dexterity and feeling of the game though and with practice comes expertise. But as I said there certainly is not the same depth as it is spread out on EU and Kr instead. But for top level play it's best to compare the rivalries I think. Life vs Dream, Life vs PartinG, Life vs TaeJa I feel were the highest levels we'd seen and Reynor vs Serral is above that as I see it.
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Amazing article, for me really any period of proleague was the golden era of SC2. Proleague was my drug I loved it so so much and I miss it, warchest teamleague is the closest I've seen to get me back to the same hype but its till a ways off.
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2015 was SC2's golden age and it sadly flew too close to the sun, with matchfixing and Kespa ensuring it crashed down. Some people who came along in the last few years will never understand why everyone doesn't worship the vultures that feast on this corpse as GOATs and bonjwas, but deep down everyone knows why someone won GSL 4 times in a row and why a foreigner won Blizzcon. Its simply because its easier than ever.
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A great nostalgia trip, thank you.
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On August 03 2020 05:05 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2020 02:24 Cricketer12 wrote:On August 02 2020 17:32 Poopi wrote:
Wasn’t 2015 mostly HotS AND blink era? No thanks then, even though there were lot of leagues the game just wasn’t good Article SC2 was great because of all the koreans leagues, and dream maru and life trading insane series after insane serirs Poopi dUh BluNK There were korean leagues in 2016 as well and LotV was just a better game for all of its lifespan than HotS ever was imo. But yeah the article is cool, korean leagues are the most interesting that's for sure.
The game in 2016 was shit with tankivacs, mass Reapers, mass Adepts, 4 supply mass Tempest spam and Ultras that got healed by marine bullets...
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On August 03 2020 05:30 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2020 04:52 Die4Ever wrote:On August 03 2020 03:48 ejozl wrote:
The level in Korea was high, yes, but even Life, Dream and PartinG of that era would die to Serral now. Doubt it. Serral would have to practice the game in 2015 to learn the build orders and get used to everything like 6 worker start and different units and all sorts of balance changes. Once he does any practice in 2015, KeSPA with all their players and coaches would see his replays and take whatever lessons they can learn from the future knowledge. It's not like he could just show up in 2015 and win a GSL. Remember that many of the balance changes were designed to make skilled players appear even more impressive. Also I think korean players were more in-shape back then, they practiced more and lived in teamhouses and had coaches. I think players like Dream, DRG, Parting coming back, and GSL shrinking down to just 24 players instead of 32, is showing that 2019 really was not the highest skill era and neither is 2020. Even Byun showed this a bit, I mean if he was so good and skill of the scene only goes upwards, then why didn't he dominate back in 2010 and 2011? I didn't make up a story about him going back and beating them, I'm comparing his skill with theirs. I think preparation was much stronger back then and players were under strict regiments to try and eek out as much of their performance as possible for short-term benefits. 5 years is a LOT to hone your finger dexterity and feeling of the game though and with practice comes expertise. But as I said there certainly is not the same depth as it is spread out on EU and Kr instead. But for top level play it's best to compare the rivalries I think. Life vs Dream, Life vs PartinG, Life vs TaeJa I feel were the highest levels we'd seen and Reynor vs Serral is above that as I see it.
Well then we agree to disagree here.
Dream vs Life is still the highest level series I have watched to this date.
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EPT
