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On July 31 2020 02:32 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 00:30 ilax30 wrote:On July 30 2020 18:46 Charoisaur wrote:
Impressive Zergs still manage to steal series from terran players even after Banelings have been nerfed into the ground.
User was warned for this post. "banelings nerfed into the ground" I think we read a different patchnote That was the point. The banelings and the queens nerfs were just a backward step of buffs because one player could click on the banelings better than anyone else and the other because of the liberators, but the liberators got nerfd in the meantime in 2016, so, yeah.
Why do people still think ByuN was the reason banelings got buffed? The buff only came into play after baneling speed finished, ByuN's abusive target firing were mostly winning games before then.
The queen range buff should just never have been a thing. It was a band aid fix to zergs struggling with liberators because the maps weren't designed with them in mind when LotV was released. No one even goes fast liberator range since 2016.
That's the problem with doing patches as soon as a game's released I guess, things seemed broken that really weren't.
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the nerf was like 2 less damage to armored units if i recall correctly, they were considering a harder nerf but didnt go through with it.
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Northern Ireland26943 Posts
On July 31 2020 00:33 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2020 23:14 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 30 2020 23:08 BisuDagger wrote:On July 30 2020 22:35 Charoisaur wrote:On July 30 2020 18:46 Charoisaur wrote:
Impressive Zergs still manage to steal series from terran players even after Banelings have been nerfed into the ground.
User was warned for this post. Okay, they have not been nerfed in the ground but I thought Zergs would struggle way harder now. I understood what you meant lol. Shame on you for exaggerating. Regarding the actual nerf, I thought that was for the benefit of Protoss more then Terrans. If that's the case, then it shows here that the change wasn't a huge factor in the match up. TvZ features consistent trading in a way PvZ doesn’t. A baneling nerf should have more impact there, plus Terran have more micro countermeasures against them too. In PvZ I guess the difference has to be looked at in more of a ‘pre patch this would have wiped my army, but now because of nerfs it barely touched my army’ Just given how the match tends to flow, and how P needs to keep its tech units intact most games. With TvZ you’re looking more at trade after trade with T being able to replenish on lower tech units, so post nerf say 5/6 slightly better trades is cumulatively impactful. Great explanation! That's a good way to look at it.
Thanks. I do try, well, occasionally.
That said it’s been 10 years and PvZ being a consistently decent matchup seems beyond my humble brain, or indeed most alas.
Part of me wonders if balance patches are at least part placebo too. Even a change that ultimately shouldn’t change much may change the mentality somewhat away from being defeatist.
For me the real eye-catching TvZ scalps were TY whitewashing Dark and Inno going 4-0 across their group matches.
Basically all those games were really sharp timings that caught the Zerg somewhat offguard. When we got into mano o mano macro games with ever-expanding Zergs in the first Ro8, plus a few sneaky Zerg moves things looked rather different.
Hell the changes could also over-embolden Terrans to aggressively push, only to get punished mercilessly against better players. I think we may have seen a little of that even.
Man balance patches and their consequences are complicated when I start to think.
As for it being a ‘Terran patch’, if anything they seem better equipped vs Protoss nowadays after adapting to the previous patch, and Zerg is at the very least doable if you play well.
If I’m a Protoss pro, vT is looking achievable now but vZ looks really daunting outside of a Code S prep format.
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Can't we all just relax, stop whinging about balance and just enjoy the brilliant 'comeback' of DRG. The guy just returned recently from the army and has now made it ro4 in GSL. That is a pretty damn amazing feat.
I really hope PartinG can pull off his revenge against TY and then that'll give us a PvZ finals.
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On July 30 2020 23:14 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2020 23:08 BisuDagger wrote:On July 30 2020 22:35 Charoisaur wrote:On July 30 2020 18:46 Charoisaur wrote:
Impressive Zergs still manage to steal series from terran players even after Banelings have been nerfed into the ground.
User was warned for this post. Okay, they have not been nerfed in the ground but I thought Zergs would struggle way harder now. I understood what you meant lol. Shame on you for exaggerating. Regarding the actual nerf, I thought that was for the benefit of Protoss more then Terrans. If that's the case, then it shows here that the change wasn't a huge factor in the match up. TvZ features consistent trading in a way PvZ doesn’t. A baneling nerf should have more impact there, plus Terran have more micro countermeasures against them too. In PvZ I guess the difference has to be looked at in more of a ‘pre patch this would have wiped my army, but now because of nerfs it barely touched my army’ Just given how the match tends to flow, and how P needs to keep its tech units intact most games. With TvZ you’re looking more at trade after trade with T being able to replenish on lower tech units, so post nerf say 5/6 slightly better trades is cumulatively impactful.
The baneling nerfs were the 5 less hp after baneling speed upgrade and less damage vs none light units right?
In TvZ the dmg change only matters against marauder, tank, thor and cyclone. In the example you point out when T goes bio the damage nerf barely matters, the hp nerf does though but how often do you think those 5 hp is the difference between a killed baneling and dead terran units? Early game when focus fire i possible due to relatively low eco and few banelings it can make a difference but as soon as the game progress to midgame its not really that impactful anymore. Maybe focus firing tanks on clumped baneling can kill more than previously in some situation but thats about it.
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On July 31 2020 05:59 MoonyD wrote:
Can't we all just relax, stop whinging about balance and just enjoy the brilliant 'comeback' of DRG. The guy just returned recently from the army and has now made it ro4 in GSL. That is a pretty damn amazing feat.
I really hope PartinG can pull off his revenge against TY and then that'll give us a PvZ finals.
It is truly an amazing feet by drg, no question. But not super surprising that a 6-0 result in a matchup makes people question the balance.
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United States4126 Posts
I'm rooting for a DRG vs PartinG finals 
Gogo PartinG!
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Northern Ireland26943 Posts
On July 31 2020 06:51 Kinky wrote:I'm rooting for a DRG vs PartinG finals Gogo PartinG!
I’m torn between loving those guys and it being a fantastic story and well, PvZ. But hey we had a TvT final recently and it didn’t give us amazing games.
Personally hoping Trap gets that GSL he’s been so close to in recent times but really would be happy for any of these guys to kiss the trophy (Covid permitting).
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Anyone knows who DRG practices with?
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On August 01 2020 03:29 serralfan18 wrote:
Anyone knows who DRG practices with?
Bunny, Taeja, Dream etc dunno who he would practice with for ZvZ. Solar, soO maybe
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I'm on the DRG hype train now. Racial preference be damned!
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EPT
