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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 27 2020 09:09 Hunta15 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 06:18 deacon.frost wrote:On March 27 2020 05:19 Hunta15 wrote:On March 27 2020 05:02 rasi86 wrote:those map win% per MU are ridiculous... hope Trap can somehow do magic but most likely its another ZvZ finals  Except that's not likely at all. Maru is 33-14 vs. Solar (70.21%). I guess that mindset is expected from someone that has "Zerg OP" on their profile. WEll, it's not like Terrans or Protoss players are stomping their opposition and winning tournaments left and right  The last 2 GSL titles go to Zerg, the last 2 world champion titles go to Zerg. And as it seems after the next ST finals we can say that the last 2 ST titles go to Zerg  Is there a balance issue? Doesn't seem so, it just seems Zergs are better, be it Serral, Reynor, Dark or Rogue. While the best Protoss is notoriously known for bad PvZ and there's no other competitive Terran besides Maru. So, how much likely is it that MAru will lose to Solar? Well, I say it's 60 - 40 for Maru. And 70-30 for Dark vs whoever advances(+10 for Dark if Solar). I would love to be wrong, but Maru doesn't seem to be in his top form, Trap is bad in PvZ and Solar is nowhere near Dark's current form. (no matter the balance Dark seems on fire while being showered with gasoline) On March 27 2020 06:17 Argonauta wrote:
my problem with Maru beating Dark is the match order. Because Maru vs Solar is second semifinal, dark will have much more time to rest the wrists. 2 bo7 in a row can be quite demanding Also it's hard to prepare 10 different TvZ games(c'mon, it's Maru, he will use proxies), at the same time Dark will be watching Solar v Maru. Yeah lets cite tournaments that are from before a major balance patch. Remember when Life beat PartinG in the GSL finals? Zerg OP.
If you notice I didn't say that, you're replying to somethign i haven't written. I even wrote
Is there a balance issue? Doesn't seem so
So it's quite hilarious you're replying with this when quoting me.
On March 27 2020 09:15 ThunderJunk wrote:Actually, of all the seasons where Solar has a chance against Maru, I think this might be the one. Rogue has been on vacation so who is Maru practicing against, really? Also, it's really hard to count out Trap. He's been overshadowed... but he's definitely still a champion. I have no idea who he's practicing with though. This Ro4 can go any direction. Maybe... Trap 3-2 Dark (Because Trap is Hot right now) And Maru 3-1 Solar (Because he's Maru) Then I'll finally be able to see Trap put himself over as more than a Dark Horse when goes against Maru. I'm also biased towards more variety in the top players list though
Trap has bad PvZ and nothing shows otherwise. He lost recently to Solar and Scarlett.
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Dominican Republic627 Posts
It's incredible how zerg can hold that long and still in the game with far less bases can we agree now and do some work blizzard? How is zerg able to survive that long.
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On March 28 2020 21:21 BonitiilloO wrote:
It's incredible how zerg can hold that long and still in the game with far less bases can we agree now and do some work blizzard? How is zerg able to survive that long.
That's the power of creep, on the off side it's hard for zerg to be on the offensive without having a distinct advantage.
In other words, Zerg can defend while behind but need to be ahead to effectively trade while off creep.
Another point: on Eternal Empire Dark was massively ahead in every stage of the game and still needed 22 minutes to close is out. I wonder why it doesn't bother as much.
Last point: Terran won. 4 maps out of 7. That's it.
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Dominican Republic627 Posts
On March 28 2020 21:38 batatm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 21:21 BonitiilloO wrote:
It's incredible how zerg can hold that long and still in the game with far less bases can we agree now and do some work blizzard? How is zerg able to survive that long. That's the power of creep, on the off side it's hard for zerg to be on the offensive without having a distinct advantage. In other words, Zerg can defend while behind but need to be ahead to effectively trade while off creep. Another point: on Eternal Empire Dark was massively ahead in every stage of the game and still needed 22 minutes to close is out. I wonder why it doesn't bother as much. Last point: Terran won. 4 maps out of 7. That's it.
Excuse me SR. Terran didn't win 4 maps, MARU won 4 maps out of 7, any other terran would have lost 3-0.
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So when will the best games of 2019 release?
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On March 28 2020 21:40 BonitiilloO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 21:38 batatm wrote:On March 28 2020 21:21 BonitiilloO wrote:
It's incredible how zerg can hold that long and still in the game with far less bases can we agree now and do some work blizzard? How is zerg able to survive that long. That's the power of creep, on the off side it's hard for zerg to be on the offensive without having a distinct advantage. In other words, Zerg can defend while behind but need to be ahead to effectively trade while off creep. Another point: on Eternal Empire Dark was massively ahead in every stage of the game and still needed 22 minutes to close is out. I wonder why it doesn't bother as much. Last point: Terran won. 4 maps out of 7. That's it. Excuse me SR. Terran didn't win 4 maps, MARU won 4 maps out of 7, any other terran would have lost 3-0.
Is that really surprising? Which terran player would you trust to win against Dark?
On the same note, which Zerg can make it to game 7 vs Maru? Definitely Serral, probably Rogue.
When you look at the best players right now, there aren't many who can match up to those.
Also, nice dodge on my first 2 points.
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Canada8991 Posts
On March 28 2020 21:40 BonitiilloO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 21:38 batatm wrote:On March 28 2020 21:21 BonitiilloO wrote:
It's incredible how zerg can hold that long and still in the game with far less bases can we agree now and do some work blizzard? How is zerg able to survive that long. That's the power of creep, on the off side it's hard for zerg to be on the offensive without having a distinct advantage. In other words, Zerg can defend while behind but need to be ahead to effectively trade while off creep. Another point: on Eternal Empire Dark was massively ahead in every stage of the game and still needed 22 minutes to close is out. I wonder why it doesn't bother as much. Last point: Terran won. 4 maps out of 7. That's it. Excuse me SR. Terran didn't win 4 maps, MARU won 4 maps out of 7, any other terran would have lost 3-0.
You mean it took the best terran in the world to beat the best zerg in the world?
Shocker.
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Dominican Republic627 Posts
On March 28 2020 23:39 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 21:40 BonitiilloO wrote:On March 28 2020 21:38 batatm wrote:On March 28 2020 21:21 BonitiilloO wrote:
It's incredible how zerg can hold that long and still in the game with far less bases can we agree now and do some work blizzard? How is zerg able to survive that long. That's the power of creep, on the off side it's hard for zerg to be on the offensive without having a distinct advantage. In other words, Zerg can defend while behind but need to be ahead to effectively trade while off creep. Another point: on Eternal Empire Dark was massively ahead in every stage of the game and still needed 22 minutes to close is out. I wonder why it doesn't bother as much. Last point: Terran won. 4 maps out of 7. That's it. Excuse me SR. Terran didn't win 4 maps, MARU won 4 maps out of 7, any other terran would have lost 3-0. You mean it took the best terran in the world to beat the best zerg in the world? Shocker.
considering zerg just do lings all day longs is a big shocker
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hah the poll favored Dark last night
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 28 2020 23:39 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 21:40 BonitiilloO wrote:On March 28 2020 21:38 batatm wrote:On March 28 2020 21:21 BonitiilloO wrote:
It's incredible how zerg can hold that long and still in the game with far less bases can we agree now and do some work blizzard? How is zerg able to survive that long. That's the power of creep, on the off side it's hard for zerg to be on the offensive without having a distinct advantage. In other words, Zerg can defend while behind but need to be ahead to effectively trade while off creep. Another point: on Eternal Empire Dark was massively ahead in every stage of the game and still needed 22 minutes to close is out. I wonder why it doesn't bother as much. Last point: Terran won. 4 maps out of 7. That's it. Excuse me SR. Terran didn't win 4 maps, MARU won 4 maps out of 7, any other terran would have lost 3-0. You mean it took the best terran in the world to beat the best zerg in the world? Shocker.
Well it's not just that, it's the fact that we have 3 really top zerg players(and several slightly under them - e.g. Reynor) while we have struggle to name 2 really top Terrans or Protoss. At least a year ago we had Classic. Nowadays? Trap? With his PvZ while this is a zerg era? And let's not move into the Terran departement. And foreign scene isn't exactly helpful either 
And probably nobody(except few ) wishes a racial dominance, but it would be nice to see somebody else holding the banner than Trap or Maru.
Edit> In other words - it would be really nice to see a complement to Maru and Trap the same way Dark has Serral and Rogue(and several others waiting closely behind).
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On March 29 2020 03:46 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 23:39 Nakajin wrote:On March 28 2020 21:40 BonitiilloO wrote:On March 28 2020 21:38 batatm wrote:On March 28 2020 21:21 BonitiilloO wrote:
It's incredible how zerg can hold that long and still in the game with far less bases can we agree now and do some work blizzard? How is zerg able to survive that long. That's the power of creep, on the off side it's hard for zerg to be on the offensive without having a distinct advantage. In other words, Zerg can defend while behind but need to be ahead to effectively trade while off creep. Another point: on Eternal Empire Dark was massively ahead in every stage of the game and still needed 22 minutes to close is out. I wonder why it doesn't bother as much. Last point: Terran won. 4 maps out of 7. That's it. Excuse me SR. Terran didn't win 4 maps, MARU won 4 maps out of 7, any other terran would have lost 3-0. You mean it took the best terran in the world to beat the best zerg in the world? Shocker. Well it's not just that, it's the fact that we have 3 really top zerg players(and several slightly under them - e.g. Reynor) while we have struggle to name 2 really top Terrans or Protoss. At least a year ago we had Classic. Nowadays? Trap? With his PvZ while this is a zerg era? And let's not move into the Terran departement. And foreign scene isn't exactly helpful either And probably nobody(except few ) wishes a racial dominance, but it would be nice to see somebody else holding the banner than Trap or Maru. Edit> In other words - it would be really nice to see a complement to Maru and Trap the same way Dark has Serral and Rogue(and several others waiting closely behind).
Retirements are hurting and will hurt Protoss the most. It's frankly hard to think there will be many Protoss player at the top with herO and Classic already gone and Zest, Stats joining the army this year the perspective is dire. Balance has to favor Protoss for your scenario to take place.
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On March 29 2020 01:08 Aunvilgodess wrote:
hah the poll favored Dark last night
Dark was absolutely favored in last night's match before it started. He hadn't dropped a map, was the reigning Blizzcon champ, and everything we've seen so far in 2020 seems to suggest Zerg is still favored in the meta (although admittedly not as bad they were in 2019.)
I don't blame people for voting for Dark, if I had voted with my head I would have too, but I'm a massive Maru fan so I voted with my heart.
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On March 02 2020 17:07 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2020 16:48 sneakyfox wrote:On March 02 2020 11:03 Die4Ever wrote:just wrote some little code... using this page as a source  Premier Tournamentscounting finalists 2010, T=10, P=6, Z=4 percents: T=50%, P=30%, Z=20% 2011, T=31, P=22, Z=25 percents: T=40%, P=28%, Z=32% 2012, T=22, P=30, Z=34 percents: T=26%, P=35%, Z=40% 2013, T=18, P=22, Z=26 percents: T=27%, P=33%, Z=39% 2014, T=27, P=28, Z=17 percents: T=38%, P=39%, Z=24% 2015, T=7, P=17, Z=20 percents: T=16%, P=39%, Z=45% 2016, T=9, P=17, Z=16 percents: T=21%, P=40%, Z=38% 2017, T=9, P=11, Z=14 percents: T=26%, P=32%, Z=41% 2018, T=6, P=12, Z=12 percents: T=20%, P=40%, Z=40% 2019, T=6, P=7, Z=21 percents: T=18%, P=21%, Z=62% 2020, T=0, P=1, Z=1 percents: T=0%, P=50%, Z=50% + Show Spoiler [code] +function count(header, c) {
var table = header.parent().nextAll('table')[0];
table = $(table);
var t = table.find('[title=Terran]').length;
var p = table.find('[title=Protoss]').length;
var z = table.find('[title=Zerg]').length;
if(!c) c={t:t,p:p,z:z};
else {
c.t+=t;
c.p+=p;
c.z+=z;
}
c.total = c.t+c.p+c.z;
return c;
}
function percent(v, total) {
return Math.round(v/total*100)+"%";
}
var out='counting finalists\n';
for(var i=2010; i<=2020; i++) {
var h=$('#'+i);
var c = count(h);
if( $('#'+i+"_2").length ) {
h=$('#'+i+"_2");
c = count(h, c);
}
out += i+", T="+c.t+", P="+c.p+", Z="+c.z;
out += "\n percents: ";
out += "T="+percent(c.t, c.total)+", P="+percent(c.p, c.total)+", Z="+percent(c.z, c.total)+"\n\n";
}
console.log(out); 2019 is the worst percentage with zerg at 62%, otherwise no race has gotten over 50% for any year, and the only 50% was back in 2010 with terran (excluding this year of course) terran has been the lowest race since 2014 lol Interesting. Could you do the same count for Top4? And maybe also Top8? it wouldn't be easy unless you could find a single page that contains all that info this guy did some other stats though https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/fc67qz/spicy_stats_on_tournament_results_2019_2020/
From another thread but seems relevant.
TLDR: Terran is consistently under-represented.
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On March 29 2020 06:57 Pentarp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2020 17:07 Die4Ever wrote:On March 02 2020 16:48 sneakyfox wrote:On March 02 2020 11:03 Die4Ever wrote:just wrote some little code... using this page as a source Premier Tournamentscounting finalists 2010, T=10, P=6, Z=4 percents: T=50%, P=30%, Z=20% 2011, T=31, P=22, Z=25 percents: T=40%, P=28%, Z=32% 2012, T=22, P=30, Z=34 percents: T=26%, P=35%, Z=40% 2013, T=18, P=22, Z=26 percents: T=27%, P=33%, Z=39% 2014, T=27, P=28, Z=17 percents: T=38%, P=39%, Z=24% 2015, T=7, P=17, Z=20 percents: T=16%, P=39%, Z=45% 2016, T=9, P=17, Z=16 percents: T=21%, P=40%, Z=38% 2017, T=9, P=11, Z=14 percents: T=26%, P=32%, Z=41% 2018, T=6, P=12, Z=12 percents: T=20%, P=40%, Z=40% 2019, T=6, P=7, Z=21 percents: T=18%, P=21%, Z=62% 2020, T=0, P=1, Z=1 percents: T=0%, P=50%, Z=50% + Show Spoiler [code] +function count(header, c) {
var table = header.parent().nextAll('table')[0];
table = $(table);
var t = table.find('[title=Terran]').length;
var p = table.find('[title=Protoss]').length;
var z = table.find('[title=Zerg]').length;
if(!c) c={t:t,p:p,z:z};
else {
c.t+=t;
c.p+=p;
c.z+=z;
}
c.total = c.t+c.p+c.z;
return c;
}
function percent(v, total) {
return Math.round(v/total*100)+"%";
}
var out='counting finalists\n';
for(var i=2010; i<=2020; i++) {
var h=$('#'+i);
var c = count(h);
if( $('#'+i+"_2").length ) {
h=$('#'+i+"_2");
c = count(h, c);
}
out += i+", T="+c.t+", P="+c.p+", Z="+c.z;
out += "\n percents: ";
out += "T="+percent(c.t, c.total)+", P="+percent(c.p, c.total)+", Z="+percent(c.z, c.total)+"\n\n";
}
console.log(out); 2019 is the worst percentage with zerg at 62%, otherwise no race has gotten over 50% for any year, and the only 50% was back in 2010 with terran (excluding this year of course) terran has been the lowest race since 2014 lol Interesting. Could you do the same count for Top4? And maybe also Top8? it wouldn't be easy unless you could find a single page that contains all that info this guy did some other stats though https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/fc67qz/spicy_stats_on_tournament_results_2019_2020/ From another thread but seems relevant. TLDR: Terran is consistently under-represented.
Yup, and Terran are also struggling this year as well. Only 5 Terran made the group stages at IEM out of 24 spots and for this GSL Super Tournament, only 4 Terran made it out of 16 spots.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://preview.redd.it/05i86eenm6k41.png?width=1007&auto=webp&s=6eac6d359fb5dd148bd20a1782b17b6a7d1429a5)
