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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 26 2019 11:10 jalstar wrote: sOs really doesn't get a lot of credit for winning Blizzcon twice, considering that Serral's Blizzcon win is a major piece of the argument for Serral being GOAT. sOs is Korean | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7435 Posts
On September 26 2019 11:10 jalstar wrote: sOs really doesn't get a lot of credit for winning Blizzcon twice, considering that Serral's Blizzcon win is a major piece of the argument for Serral being GOAT. But where is your God now? | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2467 Posts
On September 21 2019 08:19 Charoisaur wrote: 1. INnoVation 2. Maru 3. sOs 4. Zest 5. Life 6. Mvp 7. Stats 8. soO 9. Classic 10. herO 11. Rain 12. Dark 13. MMA 14. MC 15. TaeJa 16. Polt 17. Rogue 18. Serral 19. NesTea 20. PartinG I agreed with this list. No way can Serral top them all. It is because of some excessive narratives that make him overly stated. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On September 26 2019 17:52 swarminfestor wrote: I agreed with this list. No way can Serral top them all. It is because of some excessive narratives that make him overly stated. I think Serral's higher than Rogue and that's about it. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
sOs has three World Championships and doesn't bring much more to the table(in a GOAT discussions, his are surely outstanding achievements); he has no Starleague despite playing them since 2013 as well and no notable period of domination as well as a very limited time spent as clear #1 in the world. He wouldn't be called GOAT if he were non korean, be sure of that. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 26 2019 17:52 swarminfestor wrote: I agreed with this list. No way can Serral top them all. It is because of some excessive narratives that make him overly stated. It’s always going to be difficult to compare across eras, so much chopping and changing of how the tournament cycle works added to it. I’d put him higher, personally but who to swap out and what are we looking for? Polt for sure, although a great player and one of my all-time favourite players. Winning stuff over a long period is generally how we tend to rank players, with other factors of course. Serral has a relatively short span of being a top player, but in that span he’s put up ridiculous results and has been very consistent and considered by most to be if not the best player in the world, then in that conversation. I don’t think there are any wrong answers here as long as people establish their criteria for greatness and stick to it somewhat consistently. For me you can’t really be in a GOAT conversation if you weren’t the consensus best player in the world for a period of time, which is a box I think Serral does tick. Cumulative achievements definitely help in determining how high up a ranking I’d put people, but I’d exclude any player from GOAT discussions if they were never the top dog of any particular era. Folks mentioned $o$ and I’d have him higher than many, but his niche to me was more as a top tier player who was extremely clutch in a few huge tournaments. Definitely a great champion and no slouch in StarLeagues and Proleague. If Serral had a decent 2018 and a miracle Blizzcon run that’s still impressive, but it’s doing it amongst the backdrop of all those other wins that really elevated it for me anyway. If Serral does win it again this year with all the other results he’s accumulated I find it difficult to argue against bumping him up a list. I’ve already got him high up anyway, but for others who don’t I’m not sure how you’d argue against the combined weight of his 2018 and hypothetical 2019 | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 26 2019 11:10 jalstar wrote: sOs really doesn't get a lot of credit for winning Blizzcon twice, considering that Serral's Blizzcon win is a major piece of the argument for Serral being GOAT. sOs is korean and so has to achieve twice as much to get the same credit. Probably more tbh. If Serral, Stephano, or Neeb had won two blizzcons, katowice, and multiple korean weekenders, and had a top 3 all-time proleague record, they would be praised as the GOAT without a doubt. People did it to Serral when he had a single blizzcon and korean weekender. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 26 2019 22:00 Fango wrote: sOs is korean and so has to achieve twice as much to get the same credit. Probably more tbh. If Serral, Stephano, or Neeb had won two blizzcons, katowice, and multiple korean weekenders, and had a top 3 all-time proleague record, they would be praised as the GOAT without a doubt. People did it to Serral when he had a single blizzcon and korean weekender. I really don’t think that’s entirely the case, prior to Serral coming along/Neeb to a degree it was a moot point as foreigners didn’t win those things. Long, long before that was a factor those achievements were consistently downplayed by many vs the achievements of his Korean peers. I think it’s definitely partly down to his playstyle, I definitely recall quite a lot of salt where people got annoyed that he took down more ‘deserving’ players, if you swap him with a Rain or Stats winning those tournaments I imagine they’d get more credit in some corners than he did. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On September 26 2019 22:00 Fango wrote: sOs is korean and so has to achieve twice as much to get the same credit. Probably more tbh. If Serral, Stephano, or Neeb had won two blizzcons, katowice, and multiple korean weekenders, and had a top 3 all-time proleague record, they would be praised as the GOAT without a doubt. People did it to Serral when he had a single blizzcon and korean weekender. sOs was so good, his 10 straight pvz games vs Rogue and Life to top Blizzcon were some of the most incredible Starcraft ever, such a wide array of oppening. It's a shame he never got that GSL trophy. Also he gave us that Kespa Cup final against MarineKing. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19397 Posts
On September 26 2019 23:37 Nakajin wrote: sOs was so good, his 10 straight pvz games vs Rogue and Life to top Blizzcon were some of the most incredible Starcraft ever, such a wide array of oppening. It's a shame he never got that GSL trophy. Also he gave us that Kespa Cup final against MarineKing. I think the best way to make sOs/Serral discussion continue is to ask this: "Rank the 10 best non-SSL/GSL winning players" | ||
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On September 27 2019 00:16 BisuDagger wrote: I think the best way to make sOs/Serral discussion continue is to ask this: "Rank the 10 best non-SSL/GSL winning players" Oh hard one, I would go. 1- soO 2- sOs 3- TaeJa 4- Serral 5- Would be Rogue but he's gonna be champ in a week 5- Parting 6- TY 7- Bomber 8- Polt 9- HerO 10- MKP or JD edit: forgot Polt | ||
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Poopi
France13023 Posts
On September 27 2019 01:07 Nakajin wrote: Oh hard one, I would go. 1- soO 2- sOs 3- TaeJa 4- Serral 5- Would be Rogue but he's gonna be champ in a week 5- Parting 6- TY 7- Bomber 8- Polt 9- HerO 10- MKP or JD edit: forgot Polt Well the first super tournament Polt won was even more stacked than a regular GSL Code S so he is kind of a GSL winner. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On September 27 2019 01:19 Poopi wrote: Well the first super tournament Polt won was even more stacked than a regular GSL Code S so he is kind of a GSL winner. Felt more like a Kespa Cup to me, also it feel weird to leave ByuL out of this list, but Idk where to put him | ||
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Poopi
France13023 Posts
On September 27 2019 01:29 Nakajin wrote: Felt more like a Kespa Cup to me, also it feel weird to leave ByuL out of this list, but Idk where to put him A kespa cup with 93k$ for the winner and 64 participants? | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19397 Posts
On September 27 2019 01:07 Nakajin wrote: Oh hard one, I would go. 1- soO 2- sOs 3- TaeJa 4- Serral 5- Would be Rogue but he's gonna be champ in a week 5- Parting 6- TY 7- Bomber 8- Polt 9- HerO 10- MKP or JD edit: forgot Polt What's nice about this list is it gives Serral more visibility amongst an extremely talented group of players. Regarding JD, I dont think he reached the level of scary we saw out of peal MKP. I think MKP can sit alone here. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On September 27 2019 01:31 Poopi wrote: A kespa cup with 93k$ for the winner and 64 participants? A tournament where over half the player are a certain race after the first round does sound a lot like a KC/ super tournament  Actually I didn't remember there was that many player and that much money, let say a Blizzcon/Blizzard cup. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
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archanasinghr
India1 Post
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On September 21 2019 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote: Polt, MC and MMA had great periods for sure, are they ahead of the guy? What has Dark done to be ahead of Serral, especially given their head to head? 18th? The difference between players like MC, MMA, Polt and Serral, is that in all periods of their careers MMA, MC and Polt were championship contenders. so yes they are ahead of Serral Since GOAT means Greatest of ALL TIME, not just the last two years, there is no argument that can justify Serral as ever being even close to GOAT, first of all cuz he was a nobody in WOL and HOTS (a nobody in 2012-2016, he only 'got good' after KeSPA dissolved), which means the AT (ALL TIME) part of GOAT is already denied from him. Now he could definitely be in contention for the Greatest of LOTV, but not All time. | ||
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