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StarCraft II: DeepMind Demonstration: Jan 24 - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
585 CommentsPost a Reply
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pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
January 24 2019 19:46 GMT
#341
Given the way neural nets learn, I fully expect AlphaStar to be completely invincible in the very near future.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
gophersnake
Profile Joined July 2018
48 Posts
January 24 2019 19:46 GMT
#342
You have to consider that if it is capped to 180-200 apm, if it allocates ALL 200 actions to blinking stalkers in a few second window you will get a ridiculous APM spike, it's for sure the most difficult hurdle to overcome in terms of creating a machine that can play the game versus humans in a "fair" way.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-24 19:46:24
January 24 2019 19:46 GMT
#343
On January 25 2019 04:45 IshinShishi wrote:
if its 310 pure effective apm then its still inhuman

actually that is Serral level

Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Garrl
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Scotland1982 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-24 19:46:52
January 24 2019 19:46 GMT
#344
this is a place where that zoomhack also comes into play which I see, of course, none of them are mentioning.
Serimek
Profile Joined August 2011
France2274 Posts
January 24 2019 19:47 GMT
#345
On January 25 2019 04:46 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2019 04:45 IshinShishi wrote:
if its 310 pure effective apm then its still inhuman

actually that is Serral level

https://twitter.com/retjah/status/959047573930696704


But Serral does not have a zoomhack and he has hands.
SC2 is the best game to watch and was the best to play before I grew old and slow...
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14463 Posts
January 24 2019 19:47 GMT
#346
So AlphaStar is like AlphaGo, it wants to win and does not care how given how game 5 went.
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18489 Posts
January 24 2019 19:47 GMT
#347
I mean, decisionmaking on blink stalker micro at an individual stalker, constantly, all over the map, is obviously superhuman level microing. That said, it's an AI, we don't expect it to play like a human.

Another superhuman play you saw was the timing on making the observer: a human almost certainly wouldn't see the blurred dark templar crossing the map until they are very near his base. Whereas alphastar has 100% map awareness.
peanuts
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States1225 Posts
January 24 2019 19:48 GMT
#348
The micro is incredibly interesting, the overdroning to immediately saturate/handle any workers killed from harassment was intriguing, and the army movement was brilliant. But overall, it seems like it's just exploiting its inherent ability to control units better/have persistent awareness of its FOV, and leveraging that to get into micro intensive situations and win.
Writer"My greatest skill is my enjoyment of the game" - Grubby | @TL_Peanuts
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France13023 Posts
January 24 2019 19:48 GMT
#349
On January 25 2019 04:46 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2019 04:45 IshinShishi wrote:
if its 310 pure effective apm then its still inhuman

actually that is Serral level

https://twitter.com/retjah/status/959047573930696704

Fun thing is that Lambo had the same ePM in his games against Maru.
Shows how much they hyped Serral on even silly things :D.
WriterMaru
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-24 19:48:59
January 24 2019 19:48 GMT
#350
On January 25 2019 04:46 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2019 04:45 IshinShishi wrote:
if its 310 pure effective apm then its still inhuman

actually that is Serral level

https://twitter.com/retjah/status/959047573930696704


No it isnt, are everyone of serral's 310 actions perfectly calculated and precise. no.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
January 24 2019 19:49 GMT
#351
On January 25 2019 04:45 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2019 04:44 Brutaxilos wrote:
On January 25 2019 04:37 Majick wrote:
Blizzcon 2019 Ro16:

15 AlphaStar Agents
Serral

Honestly though, if AlphaStar can beat Mana 5-0 in 2 weeks of training, Serral doesn't stand a chance.


It hasnt had 2 weeks it has had 200 years


put it back in the hyperbolic time chamber
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Dav1oN
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine3164 Posts
January 24 2019 19:49 GMT
#352
On January 25 2019 04:46 Garrl wrote:
this is a place where that zoomhack also comes into play which I see, of course, none of them are mentioning.


exactly, it needs to see the same way as a player does, only one screen
In memory of Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson 11.09.1985 - 21.07.2019 A tribute to incredible man, embodiment of joy, esports titan, starcraft community pillar all in one. You will always be remembered!
rednusa
Profile Joined October 2012
651 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-24 19:49:35
January 24 2019 19:49 GMT
#353
Any idea the whereabouts the live segment is being recorded?
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
January 24 2019 19:49 GMT
#354
On January 25 2019 04:48 peanuts wrote:
The micro is incredibly interesting, the overdroning to immediately saturate/handle any workers killed from harassment was intriguing, and the army movement was brilliant. But overall, it seems like it's just exploiting its inherent ability to control units better/have persistent awareness of its FOV, and leveraging that to get into micro intensive situations and win.


I feel like Artosis and Rotterdam are kind of over-hyping it to the point where they're overlooking the ridiculous inhuman micro.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Brutaxilos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2634 Posts
January 24 2019 19:49 GMT
#355
On January 25 2019 04:45 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2019 04:44 Brutaxilos wrote:
On January 25 2019 04:37 Majick wrote:
Blizzcon 2019 Ro16:

15 AlphaStar Agents
Serral

Honestly though, if AlphaStar can beat Mana 5-0 in 2 weeks of training, Serral doesn't stand a chance.


It hasnt had 2 weeks it has had 200 years

Yea, but 2 weeks of real life time. If we do a showmatch at Blizzcon, thats like another 40 or so weeks? So the equivalent of 4 millennia of training?
Jangbi favorite player. Forever~ CJ herO the King of IEM. BOMBERRRRRRRR. Sexy Boy Rogue. soO #1! Oliveira China Represent!
JyB
Profile Joined January 2012
France466 Posts
January 24 2019 19:49 GMT
#356
Again, just outmicroing with zoom hack. Boring.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19399 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-24 19:50:40
January 24 2019 19:50 GMT
#357
When you talk about years played, SC2 players are really in their infancy. You are never a year away from a patch. This is coupled with the fact that we don't have truly dominant players in SC2 yet. Winning for a year or two is as good as it has gotten. I would have found this more interesting had SC2 had 5 more years between its last patch or if this were trained in Brood War. In Brood War their is at least a definitive player with the most well rounded skill set in Macro, Micro, and Strategy. *Note: I'm not comparing the games at all in terms of content.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
January 24 2019 19:50 GMT
#358
On January 25 2019 04:48 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2019 04:46 Musicus wrote:
On January 25 2019 04:45 IshinShishi wrote:
if its 310 pure effective apm then its still inhuman

actually that is Serral level

https://twitter.com/retjah/status/959047573930696704


No it isnt, are everyone of serral's 310 actions perfectly calculated and precise. no.

We need that Kappa emote allowed on TL already, does not cut in anymore.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
fLyiNgDroNe
Profile Joined September 2005
Belgium4148 Posts
January 24 2019 19:50 GMT
#359
they are saying like letting AI figuring out strats and humans learning from it is a good thing. No its not. Mistakes and new meta is what makes it super exciting.
Drone is a way of living
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
January 24 2019 19:50 GMT
#360
"it's got an average human/pro apm"

Can't recall the last time I saw Serral's APM peak above 700 even in intense fights.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
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