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4 Posts
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After the standard post BlizzCon break, Korean StarCraft II resumed with the qualifiers for 2018 GSL Season 1. Taking place over two days, the first day of action featured a who’s who of Korean pros as well as a number of foreigners.
The players were organized into eight double elimination groups which were played over two sessions. When the dust settled, sixteen players had booked their ticket to Code S, with
 sOs,  Scarlett, soO, Classic, Dark, Trap,  INnoVation, Dear, herO, Impact, Stats, GuMiho, Rogue, aLive, Creator and TY making up the first half of Season 1’s participants.
The players who failed to qualify will reconvene on December 27th, with Maru, Zest, SpeCial and more looking to make up for day one disappointments and fill out the Code S ranks.
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On December 26 2017 21:03 Za7oX wrote:
TY, Byun ?
Xmas vacation.
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TY made it as well, tell the thread opener to edit his post.
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Go BurlaCzech! Destroy that pathetic Cure!
Take your revenge after today!
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On December 26 2017 21:04 Riner1212 wrote:Xmas vacation.
On December 26 2017 21:12 bulya wrote:
TY made it as well, tell the thread opener to edit his post.
So, which is it ?
Also it's cool seeing a foreigner go through. Did Parting participate ?
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Hopefully Zest makes it day 2 otherwise that would be a big disapointment
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
Thread says TY qualified :D
Byun didn't turn up to qualified on Day 1 which means he can't come day 2, so no idea what his plans are.
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Afreeca don't want Cure to win 3 GSL in 2018, so they gave him ro8 players instead of code A ...
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On December 26 2017 21:43 Zaros wrote:
Hopefully Zest makes it day 2 otherwise that would be a big disapointment
I was under the impression that Day 1 and Day 2 are different players. You sign up for one or the other. You don't get a second chance (that's what the loser's bracket is for)?
Anyways, it seems like Maru, ByuL, and Zest are the big names not qualified.
Edit: Nvm I guess it's different this year! Nice that everyone has a second chance.
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On December 26 2017 21:43 Pandemona wrote:
Thread says TY qualified :D
Byun didn't turn up to qualified on Day 1 which means he can't come day 2, so no idea what his plans are.
He loved his Marines, did not he? So it is pretty obvious.
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On December 26 2017 21:56 DieuCure wrote:
Afreeca don't want Cure to win 3 GSL in 2018, so they gave him ro8 players instead of code A ...
BurlaCzech is not RO8, even when it is nice of you to evaluate him so highly. But do not underestimate him! Cure will pay his price if he meets BurlaCzech again.
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On December 26 2017 21:57 Brutaxilos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2017 21:43 Zaros wrote:
Hopefully Zest makes it day 2 otherwise that would be a big disapointment I was under the impression that Day 1 and Day 2 are different players. You sign up for one or the other. You don't get a second chance (that's what the loser's bracket is for)? Anyways, it seems like Maru, ByuL, and Zest are the big names not qualified.
You should read the thread.
It's really explicit on Afreeca's thread.
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Hopefully Zest makes it day 2 otherwise that would be a big disapointment
Yup but i'm pretty confident that he will make it, he is looking very solid at the moment and I dont see him out of code S this season
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Maru and Zest, ladder heroes forever 
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-Even with the new format, there was a huge disparity in the difficulty of some of these groups. I know they use some sort of point system to seed the groups, but it would be nice if they'd follow that up with a human going through and making small adjustments as needed. At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups. (They succeeded with SpeCial's group but failed with Scarlett's)
If they put more than one of Maru, Zest, Solar, or Ryung in a group tomorrow, that would be borderline criminal.
-It looks like we'll only have 2 or 3 non-Koreans (Scarlett plus likely SpeCial with either SortOf or DnS as a possibility) next season. That's much better than season 3 of last year though it is still killing Korean Starcraft.
-I'm glad Creator qualified this time. He seemed crushed when he failed to qualify for season 3 last year and I thought there was a decent chance he was going to retire.
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On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups
On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it.
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wow, group 3 of the afternoon session was stacked
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On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it.
Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well
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On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well
Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game.
It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive.
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Sorry if I've missed this, but how come Neeb isn't competing in GSL, isn't he still in Korea?
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On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive.
Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32.
But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ...
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Spread 7 protoss, 5 zerg and 4 terran.
4 of the protoss were winner bracket qualifiers.
Biggest surprise for me is to see impact qualify, haven't seen him do well in years.
Liquipedia: "After SK Telecom T1 disbanded on October 18, 2016, it was announced that Impact would be retiring."
Good job Scarlett! only foreigner to pass through the needle so far.
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Impact is good.
After the patch INno played against him and was constantly crushed + he was near of 7k I think etc etc
Even if he plays a really cheesy style.
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Creator?
What year is dis?
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Interested to see how the 2 day system turns out, I wonder if they'll keep the qualifiers like this for the later seasons.
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On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ...
There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots.
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On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots.
If you only care about the very top players than they aren't damaging the korean scene but the lower tier koreans also want to make money playing the game.
"stealing a few 32 spots" as you put it sounds so harmless but in reality they are ending careers.
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On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive.
It's always been the case that the best foreigners can sometimes take out low-mid tier koreans.
It would still be sad to see the global starcraft league become region locked because "foreigners got too good". The korean scene shouldn't need it's own welfare league. I don't think any of the korean players are salty enough to ask blizzcon to ban foreigners from GSL either
edit: Banning foreigners from GSL gives us a stupid situation where top koreans are too good to play overseas, top foreigners are too good to play in korea. And that's all because a few of the korean elite are good enough to win every event. I think they should just remove region locking and let ro32 level players finish in ro32 every tournament like they're supposed to. I don't buy that tournament organisers don't like having faceless koreans win either, the biggest viewed tournaments are the ones with koreans in
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On December 27 2017 03:35 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. It's always been the case that the best foreigners can sometimes take out low-mid tier koreans. It would still be sad to see the global starcraft league become region locked because "foreigners got too good". The korean scene shouldn't need it's own welfare league. I don't think any of the korean players are salty enough to ask blizzcon to ban foreigners from GSL either
Wait, locking GSL because foreigners are too good would be sad but locking WCS because koreans are too good is okay?
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On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it.
On the basis that if a player like Dear or Cure doesn't make the GSL after being in a group with Solar and INnoVation, they are basically fucked. If a non-Korean doesn't make it out of that group and fails to make it out of day 2, they can go back and play WCS Circuit events. All things being equal, if a lower tier player is going to get boned by a bracket, that player shouldn't be the one with almost no other options.
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On December 27 2017 03:34 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots. If you only care about the very top players than they aren't damaging the korean scene but the lower tier koreans also want to make money playing the game. "stealing a few 32 spots" as you put it sounds so harmless but in reality they are ending careers.
Korean tournament organizers are the ones who typically insist on incredibly top-heavy prize pools and tournament structures, which is much more harmful to the lower tier guys than a little foreign competition. Yet we don't see many complaints about that compared to the presence of foreigners...
It gets hard to believe that you guys actually care about the well-being of the players rather than the Korean-foreigner dynamic. Calling you Korean elitists might be a bit off though since you're no longer using meritocratic arguments anymore since they don't help you.
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On December 27 2017 03:35 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. It's always been the case that the best foreigners can sometimes take out low-mid tier koreans. It would still be sad to see the global starcraft league become region locked because "foreigners got too good". The korean scene shouldn't need it's own welfare league. I don't think any of the korean players are salty enough to ask blizzcon to ban foreigners from GSL either
In a world where 7/8 of the Koreans were the Ro8 for WCS AM and 6/8 of WCS EU ro8 were Korean, and these were the Koreans who had a tough time in Korea, I would say no, there was a time when foreigners could not even take on the mid-tier Koreans like Stardust, Hyun, Golden, and others.
Right now, partially because of the drop in players, many foreigners can beat mid-tier Koreans, and some of the best foreigners can take on top tier Koreans.
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On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots.
Yes the next generation ( TangTang Pet Nightmare DRGling etc ) can't go full time because of foreigners, returning players to, then it discourage all the sub 32 or potentien returning player, no new blood, the scene die, because it's so cool to lose in ro32 considering you can make money from wcs 
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On December 27 2017 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:35 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. It's always been the case that the best foreigners can sometimes take out low-mid tier koreans. It would still be sad to see the global starcraft league become region locked because "foreigners got too good". The korean scene shouldn't need it's own welfare league. I don't think any of the korean players are salty enough to ask blizzcon to ban foreigners from GSL either Wait, locking GSL because foreigners are too good would be sad but locking WCS because koreans are too good is okay?
Well locking GSL would be sad because it's supposed to be the pinnacle of skill from the best players in the world, you'd have to take the "global" out of the name if it's turned into a welfare league for koreans
btw I've been against region locking since it started. I think the current system fucks low-mid tier koreans because the elite are too good. An ideal situation would be all ro32 level players (foreign or korean) can compete everywhere, and the elite are restricted to a specific region. And even that sounds like a stupid idea tbh
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On December 27 2017 03:48 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:35 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. It's always been the case that the best foreigners can sometimes take out low-mid tier koreans. It would still be sad to see the global starcraft league become region locked because "foreigners got too good". The korean scene shouldn't need it's own welfare league. I don't think any of the korean players are salty enough to ask blizzcon to ban foreigners from GSL either In a world where 7/8 of the Koreans were the Ro8 for WCS AM and 6/8 of WCS EU ro8 were Korean, and these were the Koreans who had a tough time in Korea, I would say no, there was a time when foreigners could not even take on the mid-tier Koreans like Stardust, Hyun, Golden, and others. Right now, partially because of the drop in players, many foreigners can beat mid-tier Koreans, and some of the best foreigners can take on top tier Koreans.
The best foreigners in HoTS (Snute, Scarlett, TLO, Lilbow, Bunny, Mana etc) could still take maps or sometimes series against koreans. Snute would have made blizzcon 2014 with no welfare league if Inno didn't clutch the last GSL run iirc. Koreans still won every event sure, but it wasn't foreigners couldn't survive past qualifiers
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On December 27 2017 03:50 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 03:35 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. It's always been the case that the best foreigners can sometimes take out low-mid tier koreans. It would still be sad to see the global starcraft league become region locked because "foreigners got too good". The korean scene shouldn't need it's own welfare league. I don't think any of the korean players are salty enough to ask blizzcon to ban foreigners from GSL either Wait, locking GSL because foreigners are too good would be sad but locking WCS because koreans are too good is okay? Well locking GSL would be sad because it's supposed to be the pinnacle of skill from the best players in the world, you'd have to take the "global" out of the name if it's turned into a welfare league for koreans
do you know what the W in WCS stands for?
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On December 27 2017 03:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:50 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 03:35 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. It's always been the case that the best foreigners can sometimes take out low-mid tier koreans. It would still be sad to see the global starcraft league become region locked because "foreigners got too good". The korean scene shouldn't need it's own welfare league. I don't think any of the korean players are salty enough to ask blizzcon to ban foreigners from GSL either Wait, locking GSL because foreigners are too good would be sad but locking WCS because koreans are too good is okay? Well locking GSL would be sad because it's supposed to be the pinnacle of skill from the best players in the world, you'd have to take the "global" out of the name if it's turned into a welfare league for koreans do you know what the W in WCS stands for?
WCS is technically divided into two regions that collectively cover the entire world. You can't really restrict the Global Starcraft League to korea without changing the name
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On December 27 2017 03:48 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots. Yes the next generation ( TangTang Pet Nightmare DRGling etc ) can't go full time because of foreigners, returning players to, then it discourage all the sub 32 or potentien returning player, no new blood, the scene die, because it's so cool to lose in ro32 considering you can make money from wcs
The reasons for no new blood in the Korean scene are a lot more nuanced than a couple less Ro32 spots, it's disingenuous to try to say that scene is dying because of a couple foreigners stealing a spots. You've literally named all the potential new blood players, I don't even think the etc was necessary, and this has been a trend since before Scarlett and other foreigners went to Korea.
The system is unfair for those Koreans, the foreigners are very lucky they can try for both, I can't really argue that. But it's not doing even close to the level of damage that made region-locking necessary in the foreigner scene.
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sOs Scarlett Stats Rogue Creator aLive <3
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On December 27 2017 03:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:34 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots. If you only care about the very top players than they aren't damaging the korean scene but the lower tier koreans also want to make money playing the game. "stealing a few 32 spots" as you put it sounds so harmless but in reality they are ending careers. Korean tournament organizers are the ones who typically insist on incredibly top-heavy prize pools and tournament structures, which is much more harmful to the lower tier guys than a little foreign competition. Yet we don't see many complaints about that compared to the presence of foreigners... It gets hard to believe that you guys actually care about the well-being of the players rather than the Korean-foreigner dynamic. Calling you Korean elitists might be a bit off though since you're no longer using meritocratic arguments anymore since they don't help you. in GSL season 3 2017 a ro32 finish actually got you 2,674$.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Code_S
Take that *3 and it's an ok amount of money. If you can't make the ro32 because a foreigner knocks you out in the qualifier you get 0$ which is less than 2,674$
I can't understand why you don't seem to think that this is bad for the korean scene.
Accusing me of not caring about the lower tier koreans and just wanting to see foreigners fail is very far-fetched.
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On December 27 2017 04:02 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:48 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots. Yes the next generation ( TangTang Pet Nightmare DRGling etc ) can't go full time because of foreigners, returning players to, then it discourage all the sub 32 or potentien returning player, no new blood, the scene die, because it's so cool to lose in ro32 considering you can make money from wcs The reasons for no new blood in the Korean scene are a lot more nuanced than a couple less Ro32 spots, it's disingenuous to try to say that scene is dying because of a couple foreigners stealing a spots. You've literally named all the potential new blood players, I don't even think the etc was necessary, and this has been a trend since before Scarlett and other foreigners went to Korea. The system is unfair for those Koreans, the foreigners are very lucky they can try for both, I can't really argue that. But it's not doing even close to the level of damage that made region-locking necessary in the foreigner scene.
of course it's not the only reason for the lack of new blood but it heavily discourages the remaining players who might try to break into the pro-scene.
Don't you remember Nightmare and DRGling qualifying for GSL when Scarlett was the only foreigner in it?
If it had continued like that we might have seen them constantly improving and gaining experience. Now they just get knocked out in the qualifiers.
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On December 27 2017 04:03 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 27 2017 03:34 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots. If you only care about the very top players than they aren't damaging the korean scene but the lower tier koreans also want to make money playing the game. "stealing a few 32 spots" as you put it sounds so harmless but in reality they are ending careers. Korean tournament organizers are the ones who typically insist on incredibly top-heavy prize pools and tournament structures, which is much more harmful to the lower tier guys than a little foreign competition. Yet we don't see many complaints about that compared to the presence of foreigners... It gets hard to believe that you guys actually care about the well-being of the players rather than the Korean-foreigner dynamic. Calling you Korean elitists might be a bit off though since you're no longer using meritocratic arguments anymore since they don't help you. in GSL season 3 2017 a ro32 finish actually got you 2,674$. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Code_STake that *3 and it's an ok amount of money. If you can't make the ro32 because a foreigner knocks you out in the qualifier you get 0$ which is less than 2,674$ I can't understand why you don't seem to think that this is bad for the korean scene. Accusing me of not caring about the lower tier koreans and just wanting to see foreigners fail is very far-fetched.
To be honest, I think the better players are the ones who deserve the money (and this goes for all events). Banning foreigners from GSL only helps those koreans because they're are being robbed from competing in other events. Removing the region locking all together is better than add more.
Also, I would seriously want to know the opinions of the korean players in GSL. We all know about salty EU players that asked for region locking before it happened. But koreans players seem to support the idea of better players being the ones who win
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so, some Terrans are winning and getting into Code S on the current patch.
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On December 27 2017 04:03 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 27 2017 03:34 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots. If you only care about the very top players than they aren't damaging the korean scene but the lower tier koreans also want to make money playing the game. "stealing a few 32 spots" as you put it sounds so harmless but in reality they are ending careers. Korean tournament organizers are the ones who typically insist on incredibly top-heavy prize pools and tournament structures, which is much more harmful to the lower tier guys than a little foreign competition. Yet we don't see many complaints about that compared to the presence of foreigners... It gets hard to believe that you guys actually care about the well-being of the players rather than the Korean-foreigner dynamic. Calling you Korean elitists might be a bit off though since you're no longer using meritocratic arguments anymore since they don't help you. in GSL season 3 2017 a ro32 finish actually got you 2,674$. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Code_STake that *3 and it's an ok amount of money. If you can't make the ro32 because a foreigner knocks you out in the qualifier you get 0$ which is less than 2,674$ I can't understand why you don't seem to think that this is bad for the korean scene. Accusing me of not caring about the lower tier koreans and just wanting to see foreigners fail is very far-fetched.
The effect of foreigners on the Korean scene is insignificant compared to the structural issues that have plagued it for years, so if you legitimately care about lower tiered Koreans you should choose your battles better.
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On December 27 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Don't you remember Nightmare and DRGling qualifying for GSL when Scarlett was the only foreigner in it?
If it had continued like that we might have seen them constantly improving and gaining experience. Now they just get knocked out in the qualifiers.
Nightmare and DRGling are awesome players, but if they get beaten in qualifers then they get beaten. It shouldn't matter if it's by Dark or Scarlett, the tournament is about the best players in the world. Although Afreeca expanding the league to accomidate a new influx of players would be nice (would be a good way to spend warchest money as well)
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On December 27 2017 04:08 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:03 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 03:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 27 2017 03:34 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots. If you only care about the very top players than they aren't damaging the korean scene but the lower tier koreans also want to make money playing the game. "stealing a few 32 spots" as you put it sounds so harmless but in reality they are ending careers. Korean tournament organizers are the ones who typically insist on incredibly top-heavy prize pools and tournament structures, which is much more harmful to the lower tier guys than a little foreign competition. Yet we don't see many complaints about that compared to the presence of foreigners... It gets hard to believe that you guys actually care about the well-being of the players rather than the Korean-foreigner dynamic. Calling you Korean elitists might be a bit off though since you're no longer using meritocratic arguments anymore since they don't help you. in GSL season 3 2017 a ro32 finish actually got you 2,674$. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Code_STake that *3 and it's an ok amount of money. If you can't make the ro32 because a foreigner knocks you out in the qualifier you get 0$ which is less than 2,674$ I can't understand why you don't seem to think that this is bad for the korean scene. Accusing me of not caring about the lower tier koreans and just wanting to see foreigners fail is very far-fetched. Also, I would seriously want to know the opinions of the korean players in GSL. We all know about salty EU players that asked for region locking before it happened. But koreans players seem to support the idea of better players being the ones who win
Why is that important? Only making a positive/fair change when there is an outcry happening doesn't seem like a good idea. People that are too polite to start a controversy get fucked over while the egoistical/rude people get rewarded.
Remember the Fantasy vs Hyun incident where the game crashed and Hyun resumed from replay at a time which was favorable for him and Fantasy was too polite to confront him.
Just because some people are too polite to always start a fight doesn't mean it's okay to just fuck them over.
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On December 27 2017 04:12 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Don't you remember Nightmare and DRGling qualifying for GSL when Scarlett was the only foreigner in it?
If it had continued like that we might have seen them constantly improving and gaining experience. Now they just get knocked out in the qualifiers.
Nightmare and DRGling are awesome players, but if they get beaten in qualifers then they get beaten. It shouldn't matter if it's by Dark or Scarlett, the tournament is about the best players in the world. Although Afreeca expanding the league to accomidate a new influx of players would be nice (would be a good way to spend warchest money as well)
when koreans get beaten by foreigners: "git gud", "Should have played better"
when foreigners get beaten by koreans: "Ban them now, this is unfair"
The double-standards are strong here.
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The GSL should be open to everyone, but if you play in it, you can't play in WCS Circuit. If non-Koreans want to go all in on playing in Korea, that's fine, but if not, get the hell out.
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On December 27 2017 04:18 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:12 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Don't you remember Nightmare and DRGling qualifying for GSL when Scarlett was the only foreigner in it?
If it had continued like that we might have seen them constantly improving and gaining experience. Now they just get knocked out in the qualifiers.
Nightmare and DRGling are awesome players, but if they get beaten in qualifers then they get beaten. It shouldn't matter if it's by Dark or Scarlett, the tournament is about the best players in the world. Although Afreeca expanding the league to accomidate a new influx of players would be nice (would be a good way to spend warchest money as well) when koreans get beaten by foreigners: "git gud", "Should have played better" when foreigners get beaten by koreans: "Ban them now, this is unfair" The double-standards are strong here.
Huh? Are you accusing me of double standards? I've always argued that the best players should win and that region shouldn't matter. I'm litterally arguing against banning foreigners from GSL in this thread for that very reason.
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On December 27 2017 04:25 Boggyb wrote:
The GSL should be open to everyone, but if you play in it, you can't play in WCS Circuit. If non-Koreans want to go all in on playing in Korea, that's fine, but if not, get the hell out.
Or just have all regions available for all to play in. That way the best players succeed where they deserve to
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On December 27 2017 04:26 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:18 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 04:12 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Don't you remember Nightmare and DRGling qualifying for GSL when Scarlett was the only foreigner in it?
If it had continued like that we might have seen them constantly improving and gaining experience. Now they just get knocked out in the qualifiers.
Nightmare and DRGling are awesome players, but if they get beaten in qualifers then they get beaten. It shouldn't matter if it's by Dark or Scarlett, the tournament is about the best players in the world. Although Afreeca expanding the league to accomidate a new influx of players would be nice (would be a good way to spend warchest money as well) when koreans get beaten by foreigners: "git gud", "Should have played better" when foreigners get beaten by koreans: "Ban them now, this is unfair" The double-standards are strong here. Huh? Are you accusing me of double standards? I've always argued that the best players should win and that region shouldn't matter. I'm litterally arguing against banning foreigners from GSL in this thread........
uh okay you weren't one of the people who argued for region-locking WCS.
I just think it's weird to say people who can't qualify for GSL don't deserve to play there while the entire foreign scene is currently region-locked to make sure players who otherwise wouldn't be able to earn money can do it.
edit: You're right that no region-locking at all would be best but I think when one region is locked the other ones MUST be too otherwise it's very unfair.
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On December 27 2017 04:33 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:26 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 04:18 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 04:12 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Don't you remember Nightmare and DRGling qualifying for GSL when Scarlett was the only foreigner in it?
If it had continued like that we might have seen them constantly improving and gaining experience. Now they just get knocked out in the qualifiers.
Nightmare and DRGling are awesome players, but if they get beaten in qualifers then they get beaten. It shouldn't matter if it's by Dark or Scarlett, the tournament is about the best players in the world. Although Afreeca expanding the league to accomidate a new influx of players would be nice (would be a good way to spend warchest money as well) when koreans get beaten by foreigners: "git gud", "Should have played better" when foreigners get beaten by koreans: "Ban them now, this is unfair" The double-standards are strong here. Huh? Are you accusing me of double standards? I've always argued that the best players should win and that region shouldn't matter. I'm litterally arguing against banning foreigners from GSL in this thread........ uh okay you weren't one of the people who argued for region-locking WCS. I just think it's weird to say people who can't qualify for GSL don't deserve to play there while the entire foreign scene is currently region-locked to make sure players who otherwise wouldn't be able to earn money can do it.
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
The easiest solution at this point (seeing how blizz won't undo region locking) is to expand GSL so there's a chance for both low level koreans and foreigners to compete. The GSL should always remain the highest level of play imo, if foreigners get in then it's fair game
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On December 27 2017 04:02 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 03:48 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 03:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 27 2017 03:04 DieuCure wrote:On December 27 2017 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:On December 27 2017 02:30 Fango wrote:On December 27 2017 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 01:26 Boggyb wrote:
At the very least, the non-Korean should be slapped in the more difficult groups On what basis? They can straight-up ban non-Koreans if they consider it an issue, no need to pretend the tournament is open and then rig it. Imagine the day they have to ban foreigners from GSL to stop them from doing well Right now top foreigners are better than low-mid tier koreans so banning them would make sense to allow those lower tier koreans to earn money from playing the game. It's not about preventing foreigners from doing well, it's for keeping the scene alive. Blizzard prefers foreigners , so they get their paycheck and kill the scene to die in ro32. But wow so cool Scarlett is in beating returning players and new generation ... There's a bit of a difference between when Koreans were killing the foreign scene by winning all their tournaments and whats going on here, foreigners are hardly killing the Korean scene by stealing a few Ro32 spots. Yes the next generation ( TangTang Pet Nightmare DRGling etc ) can't go full time because of foreigners, returning players to, then it discourage all the sub 32 or potentien returning player, no new blood, the scene die, because it's so cool to lose in ro32 considering you can make money from wcs The reasons for no new blood in the Korean scene are a lot more nuanced than a couple less Ro32 spots, it's disingenuous to try to say that scene is dying because of a couple foreigners stealing a spots. You've literally named all the potential new blood players, I don't even think the etc was necessary, and this has been a trend since before Scarlett and other foreigners went to Korea. The system is unfair for those Koreans, the foreigners are very lucky they can try for both, I can't really argue that. But it's not doing even close to the level of damage that made region-locking necessary in the foreigner scene.
Sure but that's one of the reasons. They was a lot of foreigner in GSL s3 last year and it was more and it was more problematic than now (if we stop there with Scarlett as sole foreigner).
One performance can be life changing in esports, and this performance is even harder to achieve because of greedy foreigners ( I can't blame them I know but Blizzard ).
4 players = a lot, if 6 regular code S players have to retire next year ( soO and 5 others ) we have back up, with new blood and returning players.
But if it were to happen now, we would have just 6 others profiteers foreigners, so the koreans would nt have time to catch up, which is dramatic.
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Worth noting there are already more than 32 korean players entering GSL. Even with no foreigners not all of them would get in
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On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans?
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On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans?
Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament.
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On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament.
I'm sure Team Liquid, ROOT, mYinsanity and co. are just waiting to pick up DRGLing, HHs and Dandy.
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On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament.
Maybe your suggestion is obviously idiotic, and there's no way that lower tier Koreans would get picked up when there's so many other better players on the market.
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On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans?
By "lower level koreans", I'm just refering to the ones that aren't the elite. The ones that won't qualify for blizzcon by playing in korea. Many of them are good enough to play and have success overseas (like in pre-LoTV years) but can't.
On December 27 2017 05:25 Elentos wrote:
I'm sure Team Liquid, ROOT, mYinsanity and co. are just waiting to pick up DRGLing, HHs and Dandy.
The list of teamless koreans extends much further than GMs that like to try Code A every now and again
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On December 27 2017 05:41 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament. Maybe your suggestion is obviously idiotic, and there's no way that lower tier Koreans would get picked up when there's so many other better players on the market.
Look up the WCS Austin and WCS Montreal sign ups and note all the European players who never put up results at those tournaments.
On December 27 2017 05:25 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament. I'm sure Team Liquid, ROOT, mYinsanity and co. are just waiting to pick up DRGLing, HHs and Dandy.
They have players on their roster who they fly out to tournaments who accomplish just as little. e.g. TLO
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On December 27 2017 05:43 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? By "lower level koreans", I'm just refering to the ones that aren't the elite. The ones that won't qualify for blizzcon by playing in korea. Many of them are good enough to play and have success overseas (like in pre-LoTV years) but can't. Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:25 Elentos wrote:
I'm sure Team Liquid, ROOT, mYinsanity and co. are just waiting to pick up DRGLing, HHs and Dandy. The list of teamless koreans extends much further than GMs that like to try Code A every now and again
How does that change what I said? They're not good enough to get through online qualifiers consistently should the high level Koreans sign up (and if it's totally open, why not try to qualify for a weekender?). We're not in 2015 anymore where any of these guys would be favored to win against 100% of all available foreigners either. Flight & hotel to play open bracket and Dreamhack for those teamless guys? Teamless, they'd have to finish top 16 to make a profit. Sure, not impossible, but one bad day, one unlucky group away from it just entirely not being worth it.
This is far less "fucking lower levels Koreans" than "making sure top level Koreans don't take all the money".
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On December 27 2017 05:52 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:41 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament. Maybe your suggestion is obviously idiotic, and there's no way that lower tier Koreans would get picked up when there's so many other better players on the market. Look up the WCS Austin and WCS Montreal sign ups and note all the European players who never put up results at those tournaments. Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:25 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament. I'm sure Team Liquid, ROOT, mYinsanity and co. are just waiting to pick up DRGLing, HHs and Dandy. They have players on their roster who they fly out to tournaments who accomplish just as little. e.g. TLO
So you're actually delusional enough to think that foreign teams would sign them? Korean players just cost more to foreign teams and gain them less (unless they're at the very top). Reverting region lock doesn't help the low-tier Koreans you affect to care for one wit.
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On December 27 2017 05:25 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament. I'm sure Team Liquid, ROOT, mYinsanity and co. are just waiting to pick up DRGLing, HHs and Dandy.
DRGLing doesn't even play anymore. After he loss in GSL Code S Ro32 he legit stopped playing so people need to stop mentioning him when he legit doesn't even attempt to qualify. This is his choice.
http://aligulac.com/players/9866-DRGLing/
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On December 27 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:25 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament. I'm sure Team Liquid, ROOT, mYinsanity and co. are just waiting to pick up DRGLing, HHs and Dandy. DRGLing doesn't even play anymore. After he loss in GSL Code S Ro32 he legit stopped playing so people need to stop mentioning him when he legit doesn't even attempt to qualify. This is his choice. http://aligulac.com/players/9866-DRGLing/
Sure, I'll use another example from now on, but I don't think the Ghost of Christmas Past signed him up for the GSL qualifiers every season since then, even if he never actually played.
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On December 27 2017 05:52 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:41 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament. Maybe your suggestion is obviously idiotic, and there's no way that lower tier Koreans would get picked up when there's so many other better players on the market. Look up the WCS Austin and WCS Montreal sign ups and note all the European players who never put up results at those tournaments. Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 05:25 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 05:21 Boggyb wrote:On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? Maybe they don't have teams that would be willing to pay their flights because they can't play overseas outside of one tournament. I'm sure Team Liquid, ROOT, mYinsanity and co. are just waiting to pick up DRGLing, HHs and Dandy. They have players on their roster who they fly out to tournaments who accomplish just as little. e.g. TLO
If this post was any denser, it would collapse into a white dwarf.
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On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_DreamHack_Open/Stockholm
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_DreamHack_Open/Valencia
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_DreamHack_Open/Tours
A number of participants from those tournaments: Reality, Curious, Leenock, Sacsri, Armani, Apocalypse, Hurricane, HerO, Ryung, Patience, Terminator, Pigbaby, San, Marineking, Heart.
All top tier koreans, right?
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On December 27 2017 06:40 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:48 Elentos wrote:On December 27 2017 04:39 Fango wrote:
I agree that the current system fucks the lower level koreans. However it's not the addition of foreigners to GSL that's doing it, it's being restricted from playing in overseas events
Really? Being restricted from playing overseas events fucks lower level Koreans? Ones where they can't get through the online qualifiers because, as "lower level" Koreans, the better ones beat them? Ones where since they don't have teams, paying their own flight is hardly worth it considering how high they'd have to finish to cover the costs? That's what fucks lower level Koreans? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_DreamHack_Open/Stockholmhttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_DreamHack_Open/Valenciahttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_DreamHack_Open/ToursA number of participants from those tournaments: Reality, Curious, Leenock, Sacsri, Armani, Apocalypse, Hurricane, HerO, Ryung, Patience, Terminator, Pigbaby, San, Marineking, Heart. All top tier koreans, right?
Don't see how that relates to anything I said so please explain to me what exactly you're getting at.
Unless your explanation would result in me having to explain how and why these events would look entirely different today. Because that's too much work.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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On December 27 2017 07:11 Lorning wrote:
Creator my boiiiii
Hey look, an on-topic post
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On December 27 2017 07:11 Lorning wrote:
Creator my boiiiii
Lorning my boiiiii
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I agree with Elentos, and that's why we need to protect the Korean scene, or better arrange the tournaments.
What tried to develop the SSL last year was good, but it lacked means unfortunately.
Imagine an online Code B where the top 4 get as much money as ( or a little less ) the ro32 Code S players with the warchest money.
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Here’s a radical concept for supporting the up-and-coming players: bring back Code A. It doesn’t even have to be the feeder tournament it used to be, just make it a weekly tournament to give players who didn’t qualify for Code S something to do for the three months between qualifiers. SC2 in general has become too all-or-nothing. With so few tournaments if you fail to qualify you have nothing to do for the next few months, in both Korea and WCS.
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Whoa does this mean supernova is back?? I see his id in one of the qualifiers.
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On December 27 2017 08:18 zealotstim wrote:
Whoa does this mean supernova is back?? I see his id in one of the qualifiers.
He was discharged from the army awhile back and has been streaming regularly. Not sure how good he is or will become, but it's good to see him playing in the qualifiers.
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On December 27 2017 08:26 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 08:18 zealotstim wrote:
Whoa does this mean supernova is back?? I see his id in one of the qualifiers. He was discharged from the army awhile back and has been streaming regularly. Not sure how good he is or will become, but it's good to see him playing in the qualifiers.
Oh coool! I loved watching him stream back before he went in the military. He was very high on the Korean ladder and would crush people with silly builds when on the NA ladder. I look forward to seeing him back in the gsl when he regains his form!
One of the most memorable gsl series' for me was him against Solar where Solar drone rushed him a second time after failing the first time, predicting correctly that supernova would float his cc to the gold base. Good times.
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Well done Scarlett!
Code S for life :D
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With all the hype on Scarlett I'm super happy that NoRegreT made it 2 code S in a row
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On December 28 2017 08:13 ragz_gt wrote:
With all the hype on Scarlett I'm super happy that NoRegreT made it 2 code S in a row
Agree, and think most of ous do
This is for day 1 where Scarlett qualified, NoRegret qualified day 2 so you will find the hype for him their.
Code S Zergs :D
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EPT
2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Qualifier
