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4 Posts
Seventeen months removed from the first SSL finals of LotV,  Dark and  Stats, the most successful players of their respective races in the new expansion, met once more to determine who would reign supreme over Korea’s second Starleague.
The finals got underway on Newkirk Precinct. Dark put the pedal to the metal from the very start, going for drop play aggression off 19 workers. Queens planted themselves in Stats' main along with a flood of zerglings, but Stats held with minimal losses. Reeling from the failed all-in, Dark had no way to prevent Stats from researching glaives, moving across the map and taking the game with the aid of an immortal.
Dark opened pool first on Abyssal Reef, with Stats favoring a stargate after expanding. He first built an oracle, but quickly added a void ray and another stargate along with his third. Dark built spore crawlers just in time before getting a hydralisk den, infestation pit and eventually a fourth. Stats, meanwhile, was adding a fleet beacon, a third stargate and a fourth base. Stats began to pump carriers three by three, with Dark building up a hydralisk/infestor/viper composition. Stats added on high templars, but had a difficult time piercing Dark's forest of static defense. Only a single carrier died in the first skirmish, but the second battle was far bloodier. Fungal after fungal and a number of abducts chipped away at Stats' army and, while the mothership recalled to safety, they carriers weren’t as lucky. Dark chased the remaining carriers back to Stats' base, killing most of them. Suddenly at a supply deficit, Stats added on void rays, while Dark massed ultralisks and corruptors. Dark kept the pressure on from there, keeping Stats' army count low before cleaning up Stats' forces while taking out a pair of nexus to even the series.
Stats once more led with a stargate after gate/nexus/core, but this time he made a void ray before the first oracle, third base and twilight council. Dark took a quick third and went for overlord speed, but was unable to get any drop play going. Stats made the first move with a glaives attack that bought him a large worker lead. Dark tried to flood zerglings and banelings into Stats' third, but even with the aid of queens he was unable to crack the Splyce Protoss. At a massive disadvantage, Dark added a fourth and lair along with roaches, but was pulled apart as chargelots and archons attacked his main while also killing his third. With the lead having become an insurmountable one, Dark conceded.
Stats took a gold base in game four on Odyssey, prompting Dark to go for a ling flood with banelings off three bases. After failing to make any headway at Stats' gold, Dark baited a final overcharge before bane busting into Stats' main. He killed fifteen probes, darting between both bases, but Stats held with the help of a recall. Dark didn't let up, though, going for the main again, killing four more workers and setting up an attack on Stats' undefended gold that brought the score to 2-2.
Game five saw the players spawn horizontally on Whirlwind, with Dark in the seven o'clock base and Stats opposite him in the five o'clock position. The first unit out of Stats’ stargate was an oracle, with him applying adept pressure from there. He got little done, but was able to weather the worst of Dark's follow up zergling attacks. Dark teched into swarmhosts, but had his fourth base canceled multiple times by archons. Stats gathered his forces and brought his chargelots and archons to bear in an attack outside Dark's natural that hit before banelings were completed. Some hatched, connecting to zealots, but Dark's swarmhosts were coming out piecemeal and were unable to stem the tide. The warpins continued, putting Stats one game from an SSL title.
Game six took place on Frost, with the players once more spawning horizontally, this time on the northern side of the map. Stats' adepts spotted Dark's two base lair build with a roach warren, prompting him to stop stargate production and move into immortals and chargelots. Dark cut roach production and decided to drone and add a third base which he lightly saturated while teching into hydralisks. Stats went for an archon drop, but it was scouted and repulsed by waiting hydralisks. Having pulled massively ahead in supply, Dark marched across the map with roach/hydra. He routed Stats' army and killed the third base while defending against warp prism harassment before crashing into Stats' natural, sending the series to game seven.
Back on a two player map, Stats opened with a gateway on the low ground before pylon blocking Dark's natural on Overgrowth. Having opened pool first, Dark took instead took his third first. Stats went gate/nexus/core before adding on a stargate. Dark bled off transferring drones to Stats' first two adepts, but had a queen and spore in position to defend the first oracle which had to settle for planting a stasis ward before retreating. Dark teched into +1 melee and a baneling nest, with Stats taking his third, going for charge and high templar behind it. Dark tried to establish his fourth, but Stats had marshalled a chargelot/archon army in the middle of the map. It fought to a standstill against Dark's hydralisks and queens, but managed to cancel Dark's fourth. Stats withdrew and took a fourth of his own while bolstering his army with storm. Having made two prisms, Stats canceled Dark's building bases with his main army, warped in zealots in Dark's main, dropped zealots in Dark's natural and attacked Dark's third. Dark attempted baneling drops on the high templar, but Stats' splits were too good and the game was already beyond the Zerg's grasp anyway. Having lost 25 workers and his entire army, Dark had no choice but to concede. The loss is Dark's third consecutive in a Premier event finals. The victory is Stats' second of the year, bolstering his record as the most prolific player of 2017 and extending his lead at the top of the Korean WCS ranking.
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Stats performed perfectly in the last game, amazing multitasking and engagement, that HT split was miraculous, a well-deserved victory.
This year is already great for him with the double starleague champions, I wish he will do well at Blizzcon. A player as consistent as he is should not easily choke.
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Dark was perhaps the best player of the season (gsl+ssl), and comes out empty-handed, disappointed for him..
+ Cant wait for the traditionnal "omg where is the spoiler alert" 
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Austria24417 Posts
On September 25 2017 22:21 yht9657 wrote:
Stats performed perfectly in the last game, amazing multitasking and engagement, that HT split was miraculous, a well-deserved victory.
This year is already great for him with the double starleague champions, I wish he will do well at Blizzcon. A player as consistent as he is should not easily choke.
Yeah, that last game was essentially perfect. Very impressed by that.
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On September 25 2017 22:25 DieuCure wrote:Dark was perhaps the best player of the season (gsl+ssl), and comes out empty-handed, disappointed for him.. + Cant wait for the traditionnal "omg where is the spoiler alert"
This, Dark is probably the most fearsome player this season and in the end, won't probably lift a single trophy this year. I'm gutted for him.
On the other hand, Stats really played amazingly & deserved that win, confirming he's the best Protoss there is today, and ARGUABLY the best player this year with 1 GSL win + 1 SSL win + 2x 2nd places in IEM tournaments (Not taking into account the fact that he's also been 3rd & 4th in the GSL season 3 and in the 1st SSL of the year).
While Innovation certainly won more than him, there's no denying that, his runs ended pretty early in every other tournament he entered, which is why I think it's hard to decide which one of the two is the best in 2017. (But that's just my opinion, don't start a debate on this  )
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On September 25 2017 23:00 Snarosc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 22:25 DieuCure wrote:Dark was perhaps the best player of the season (gsl+ssl), and comes out empty-handed, disappointed for him.. + Cant wait for the traditionnal "omg where is the spoiler alert" This, Dark is probably the most fearsome player this season and in the end, won't probably lift a single trophy this year. I'm gutted for him. On the other hand, Stats really played amazingly & deserved that win, confirming he's the best Protoss there is today, and ARGUABLY the best player this year with 1 GSL win + 1 SSL win + 2x 2nd places in IEM tournaments (Not taking into account the fact that he's also been 3rd & 4th in the GSL season 3 and in the 1st SSL of the year). While Innovation certainly won more than him, there's no denying that, his runs ended pretty early in every other tournament he entered, which is why I think it's hard to decide which one of the two is the best in 2017. (But that's just my opinion, don't start a debate on this )
It's abundantely clear that Dark Stats and Inno are the best players of their race in LotV. Disregarding any of them or their abilities is simply idiotic.
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Ehhh...Another tournament of (according to many people) "Zerg too stronk" era, yet without Zerg win...I feel so bad for Dark...
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On September 25 2017 23:28 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:00 Snarosc wrote:On September 25 2017 22:25 DieuCure wrote:Dark was perhaps the best player of the season (gsl+ssl), and comes out empty-handed, disappointed for him.. + Cant wait for the traditionnal "omg where is the spoiler alert" This, Dark is probably the most fearsome player this season and in the end, won't probably lift a single trophy this year. I'm gutted for him. On the other hand, Stats really played amazingly & deserved that win, confirming he's the best Protoss there is today, and ARGUABLY the best player this year with 1 GSL win + 1 SSL win + 2x 2nd places in IEM tournaments (Not taking into account the fact that he's also been 3rd & 4th in the GSL season 3 and in the 1st SSL of the year). While Innovation certainly won more than him, there's no denying that, his runs ended pretty early in every other tournament he entered, which is why I think it's hard to decide which one of the two is the best in 2017. (But that's just my opinion, don't start a debate on this ) It's abundantely clear that Dark Stats and Inno are the best players of their race in LotV. Disregarding any of them or their abilities is simply idiotic.
Which makes soO the 2nd best Zerg?
Yes, no doubt Dark had a stellar year. Came so close to beating Inno and Stats, played with heart. It's not a case where you can really point to a moment and say "Yeah, he botched that real bad, what a choker". Yes, he made mistakes, but who doesn't? It's not like he made significantly more mistakes than Inno and Stats in those games. He deserves better. Hopefully Blizzcon can be his salvation!
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On September 26 2017 00:17 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:28 Cricketer12 wrote:On September 25 2017 23:00 Snarosc wrote:On September 25 2017 22:25 DieuCure wrote:Dark was perhaps the best player of the season (gsl+ssl), and comes out empty-handed, disappointed for him.. + Cant wait for the traditionnal "omg where is the spoiler alert" This, Dark is probably the most fearsome player this season and in the end, won't probably lift a single trophy this year. I'm gutted for him. On the other hand, Stats really played amazingly & deserved that win, confirming he's the best Protoss there is today, and ARGUABLY the best player this year with 1 GSL win + 1 SSL win + 2x 2nd places in IEM tournaments (Not taking into account the fact that he's also been 3rd & 4th in the GSL season 3 and in the 1st SSL of the year). While Innovation certainly won more than him, there's no denying that, his runs ended pretty early in every other tournament he entered, which is why I think it's hard to decide which one of the two is the best in 2017. (But that's just my opinion, don't start a debate on this ) It's abundantely clear that Dark Stats and Inno are the best players of their race in LotV. Disregarding any of them or their abilities is simply idiotic. Which makes soO the 2nd best Zerg? Yes, no doubt Dark had a stellar year. Came so close to beating Inno and Stats, played with heart. It's not a case where you can really point to a moment and say "Yeah, he botched that real bad, what a choker". Yes, he made mistakes, but who doesn't? It's not like he made significantly more mistakes than Inno and Stats in those games. He deserves better. Hopefully Blizzcon can be his salvation!
It's an odd year. We both know who is winning blizzcon and it ain't Dark
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On September 26 2017 00:30 Cricketer12 wrote:
It's an odd year. We both know who is winning blizzcon and it ain't Dark
Serral?
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On September 25 2017 22:21 yht9657 wrote:
Stats performed perfectly in the last game, amazing multitasking and engagement, that HT split was miraculous, a well-deserved victory.
This year is already great for him with the double starleague champions, I wish he will do well at Blizzcon. A player as consistent as he is should not easily choke.
at the moment he could only lose to sOs or Inno, perhaps Dark as well. I don't see him losing to anyone else.
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Gotta feel for Dark, he played the two best players in the world in GSL then SSL, and took both of them to Game 7, but at the end of the day he walks away empty-handed.
As for the current best player, Stats and Inno are extremely close but I would have to give a (very) slight edge to Inno. He made it through a tough playoff bracket while Stats rested, beat sOs where Stats failed, and put on a much better show in his Bo7 against Dark.
Stats has been more consistent in 2017, but when Inno peaks he dominates every other player in the world, Stats included. An example of this is the multiple times Inno fought Stats throughout the year. When Stats won it was tightly contested, but Inno simply looks invincible in victory.
Looking forward to the Super Tournament and Blizzcon, hopefully we more epic showdowns between Dark, Inno and Stats.
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On September 26 2017 00:35 RCCar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 00:30 Cricketer12 wrote:
It's an odd year. We both know who is winning blizzcon and it ain't Dark Serral?
sOs, the only player to ever win at Blizzcon in an odd numbered year.
He shows up every other year and wins.
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Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year.
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Maru will be the great favorite.
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On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year.
Is there some mysterious external factor that prevents any of the big three from peaking at Blizzcon?
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On September 26 2017 01:25 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 22:21 yht9657 wrote:
Stats performed perfectly in the last game, amazing multitasking and engagement, that HT split was miraculous, a well-deserved victory.
This year is already great for him with the double starleague champions, I wish he will do well at Blizzcon. A player as consistent as he is should not easily choke.
at the moment he could only lose to sOs or Inno, perhaps Dark as well. I don't see him losing to anyone else.
soO can do it if it isn't the finals.
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Incredible year for Stats. Really cool to see him coming into his own as a superstar this year after being a workhorse on KT Rolster for so long but never being a "big name" among KT/SKT guys.
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Fantastic finals all round, I feel Dark did not have to mix it up as much as he did, he is a goldy macro player and had he just gone more toe to toe with Stats I think he would have won this series.
But there is no denying Stats - what a supreme high grand elite Auir master in PvZ and PvT....
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On September 26 2017 04:22 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. Is there some mysterious external factor that prevents any of the big three from peaking at Blizzcon?
Of course there is, fate.
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On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year.
It's complicated. You people don't understand the structure of a matrix or even the basic algebra associated with partial orders. The closest thing to a realistic ranking that is even close to factual over 2017 (to present) is the following 3by3 matrix (Yes Aligulac may say differently):
. vsZ . . . . . vs P . . . . . . . vs T
_______________________________________________________________
. soO . . . . Rogue . . . . . . Dark .......|..... best Zerg
.
. Stats . . . . sOs . . . . . . herO ........|.... best Protoss
.
. TY . . . . . . INnoVation . Gumiho ....|........ best Terran
.
.
Of course I'm tempted to write (herO+Classic)/2 in the PvT spot and (2Gumiho - Byun + INnoVation)/2 in the TvT spot, but binary choices have to be made.
Overall best: INnoVation, Stats, Dark
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On September 26 2017 09:29 Sogetsu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 04:22 pvsnp wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. Is there some mysterious external factor that prevents any of the big three from peaking at Blizzcon? Of course there is, fate.
There's no fate but what we make for ourselves.
Therefore, Inno wins by pop culture reference.
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On September 26 2017 04:22 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. Is there some mysterious external factor that prevents any of the big three from peaking at Blizzcon?
They've been in almost peak form for over a year now. Other players will prepare themselves to peak around blizzcon time. Players always try to step it up for blizzcon, if you're at your best for the whole year how you gonna step it up? I know this sounds like nonsense, but I genuinely feel like the guys that dominate consistancy over the year are less likely to take it. Like Life said at blizzcon 2015, at that point it doesn't matter how well you did over the course of the year
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On September 26 2017 09:41 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 09:29 Sogetsu wrote:On September 26 2017 04:22 pvsnp wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. Is there some mysterious external factor that prevents any of the big three from peaking at Blizzcon? Of course there is, fate. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves. Therefore, Inno wins by pop culture reference.
Variance is higher for weekender tournaments. Matches are compressed, tiredness sets in, less time to prepare against opponents, and everything falls on 2-3 days' span of form.
Let's use a chess analogy. Starleague format would be classical chess, weekender format would be rapid/blitz. The only difference in SC2 is that there is no real consensus on what constitutes the 'better format'. Top Korean tourneys favour the Starleague format (which is carried forward from BW tradition, hence arguably fitting the 'classical' mould), top foreign tourneys favour weekender format (since the early days of SC2).
But more to the point, it shouldn't be surprising why some Starleague champions may not fare as well in Blizzcon. The road and conditions to victory are somewhat different. And yes, because of variance.
(Personally, I'm not saying Starleague is ideal. Few months may be too long. What would be great is a format in between - Blizzcon to be stretched over 2 weeks, with 2-3 days of rest in between rounds. Packing multiple rounds in a single day is not the best test of a player's skill, I feel. Even in BW, Starleague group matches tend to be stretched over a few days. So even SC2 Starleagues seem to be a lite version of classical BW Starleague.)
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On September 26 2017 09:32 KR_4EVR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. It's complicated. You people don't understand the structure of a matrix or even the basic algebra associated with partial orders. The closest thing to a realistic ranking that is even close to factual over 2017 (to present) is the following 3by3 matrix (Yes Aligulac may say differently): . vsZ . . . . . vs P . . . . . . . vs T _______________________________________________________________ . soO . . . . Rogue . . . . . . Dark .......|..... best Zerg . . Stats . . . . sOs . . . . . . herO ........|.... best Protoss . . TY . . . . . . INnoVation . Gumiho ....|........ best Terran . . Of course I'm tempted to write (herO+Classic)/2 in the PvT spot and (2Gumiho - Byun + INnoVation)/2 in the TvT spot, but binary choices have to be made. Overall best: INnoVation, Stats, Dark
Inno is honestly best at all three of the matchups for terran, TY has had issues with zergs whereas Inno never does. And his recent TvT run is insane.
I would also say that in PvT, Zest>Stats>herO
I agree zerg is split over soO Rogue and Dark, however Dark is the best overall.
(this is right now btw, not over the course of the year)
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On September 26 2017 00:35 RCCar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 00:30 Cricketer12 wrote:
It's an odd year. We both know who is winning blizzcon and it ain't Dark Serral?
SoO
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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On September 26 2017 09:53 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 04:22 pvsnp wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. Is there some mysterious external factor that prevents any of the big three from peaking at Blizzcon? They've been in almost peak form for over a year now. Other players will prepare themselves to peak around blizzcon time. Players always try to step it up for blizzcon, if you're at your best for the whole year how you gonna step it up? I know this sounds like nonsense, but I genuinely feel like the guys that dominate consistancy over the year are less likely to take it. Like Life said at blizzcon 2015, at that point it doesn't matter how well you did over the course of the year
I dunno Kev, I don't buy the idea that any pros have hit the skill ceilings of their race, or are even anywhere near. There's always room to improve, even if you are already the best in the world.
On September 26 2017 10:01 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 09:41 pvsnp wrote:On September 26 2017 09:29 Sogetsu wrote:On September 26 2017 04:22 pvsnp wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. Is there some mysterious external factor that prevents any of the big three from peaking at Blizzcon? Of course there is, fate. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves. Therefore, Inno wins by pop culture reference. Variance is higher for weekender tournaments. Matches are compressed, tiredness sets in, less time to prepare against opponents, and everything falls on 2-3 days' span of form. Let's use a chess analogy. Starleague format would be classical chess, weekender format would be rapid/blitz. The only difference in SC2 is that there is no real consensus on what constitutes the 'better format'. Top Korean tourneys favour the Starleague format (which is carried forward from BW tradition, hence arguably fitting the 'classical' mould), top foreign tourneys favour weekender format (since the early days of SC2). But more to the point, it shouldn't be surprising why some Starleague champions may not fare as well in Blizzcon. The road and conditions to victory are somewhat different. And yes, because of variance. (Personally, I'm not saying Starleague is ideal. Few months may be too long. What would be great is a format in between - Blizzcon to be stretched over 2 weeks, with 2-3 days of rest in between rounds. Packing multiple rounds in a single day is not the best test of a player's skill, I feel. Even in BW, Starleague group matches tend to be stretched over a few days. So even SC2 Starleagues seem to be a lite version of classical BW Starleague.)
Oh, I understand the whole higher variance thing. But simply because Stats/Inno/Dark might not be overwhelming favorites does not mean they have no chance to win at all, as some other posters are implying.
Blizzcon being a weekender increases the likelihood of chance playing a hand, and favorites always suffer disproportionately when chance takes a hand. But to imply that Stats/Inno/Dark are somehow not favorites simply because of increased variance is.....unjustified.
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On September 26 2017 10:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 09:32 KR_4EVR wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. It's complicated. You people don't understand the structure of a matrix or even the basic algebra associated with partial orders. The closest thing to a realistic ranking that is even close to factual over 2017 (to present) is the following 3by3 matrix (Yes Aligulac may say differently): . vsZ . . . . . vs P . . . . . . . vs T _______________________________________________________________ . soO . . . . Rogue . . . . . . Dark .......|..... best Zerg . . Stats . . . . sOs . . . . . . herO ........|.... best Protoss . . TY . . . . . . INnoVation . Gumiho ....|........ best Terran . . Of course I'm tempted to write (herO+Classic)/2 in the PvT spot and (2Gumiho - Byun + INnoVation)/2 in the TvT spot, but binary choices have to be made. Overall best: INnoVation, Stats, Dark Inno is honestly best at all three of the matchups for terran, TY has had issues with zergs whereas Inno never does. And his recent TvT run is insane. I would also say that in PvT, Zest>Stats>herO I agree zerg is split over soO Rogue and Dark, however Dark is the best overall. (this is right now btw, not over the course of the year)
Inno, Stats, and Dark are the clear frontrunners for their races, but they all have their own weak points. Inno's TvT and TvZ are nearly invincible, but his TvP looks pretty mortal by comparison. Stats can take on the best Terrans and Zergs head-on, but his PvP is predictable and exploitable. Dark's ZvT is peerless and his ZvP lategame just as strong, but he also struggles in the mirror matchup.
Out of the other top-tiers, TY is probably as good as Inno in TvP, Zest better than Stats in PvT, and soO/Rogue better than Dark in ZvZ.
My estimate for the top for each race would go something like:
Terran: Inno > TY > Gumiho > Maru > ByuN/aLive
Protoss: Stats > Classic > sOs > Dear/Zest > herO
Zerg: Dark > Rogue > soO > Solar
Overall: Inno > Stats > Dark
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On September 26 2017 10:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 09:32 KR_4EVR wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. It's complicated. You people don't understand the structure of a matrix or even the basic algebra associated with partial orders. The closest thing to a realistic ranking that is even close to factual over 2017 (to present) is the following 3by3 matrix (Yes Aligulac may say differently): . vsZ . . . . . vs P . . . . . . . vs T _______________________________________________________________ . soO . . . . Rogue . . . . . . Dark .......|..... best Zerg . . Stats . . . . sOs . . . . . . herO ........|.... best Protoss . . TY . . . . . . INnoVation . Gumiho ....|........ best Terran . . Of course I'm tempted to write (herO+Classic)/2 in the PvT spot and (2Gumiho - Byun + INnoVation)/2 in the TvT spot, but binary choices have to be made. Overall best: INnoVation, Stats, Dark Inno is honestly best at all three of the matchups for terran, TY has had issues with zergs whereas Inno never does. And his recent TvT run is insane. I would also say that in PvT, Zest>Stats>herO I agree zerg is split over soO Rogue and Dark, however Dark is the best overall. (this is right now btw, not over the course of the year)
Zest in 2017 LOL
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Austria24417 Posts
On September 27 2017 00:46 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 10:02 Fango wrote:On September 26 2017 09:32 KR_4EVR wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. It's complicated. You people don't understand the structure of a matrix or even the basic algebra associated with partial orders. The closest thing to a realistic ranking that is even close to factual over 2017 (to present) is the following 3by3 matrix (Yes Aligulac may say differently): . vsZ . . . . . vs P . . . . . . . vs T _______________________________________________________________ . soO . . . . Rogue . . . . . . Dark .......|..... best Zerg . . Stats . . . . sOs . . . . . . herO ........|.... best Protoss . . TY . . . . . . INnoVation . Gumiho ....|........ best Terran . . Of course I'm tempted to write (herO+Classic)/2 in the PvT spot and (2Gumiho - Byun + INnoVation)/2 in the TvT spot, but binary choices have to be made. Overall best: INnoVation, Stats, Dark Inno is honestly best at all three of the matchups for terran, TY has had issues with zergs whereas Inno never does. And his recent TvT run is insane. I would also say that in PvT, Zest>Stats>herO I agree zerg is split over soO Rogue and Dark, however Dark is the best overall. (this is right now btw, not over the course of the year) Zest in 2017 LOL
He's been bad in tournaments, but his PvT is actually excellent right now.
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On September 26 2017 10:35 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 09:53 Fango wrote:On September 26 2017 04:22 pvsnp wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. Is there some mysterious external factor that prevents any of the big three from peaking at Blizzcon? They've been in almost peak form for over a year now. Other players will prepare themselves to peak around blizzcon time. Players always try to step it up for blizzcon, if you're at your best for the whole year how you gonna step it up? I know this sounds like nonsense, but I genuinely feel like the guys that dominate consistancy over the year are less likely to take it. Like Life said at blizzcon 2015, at that point it doesn't matter how well you did over the course of the year I dunno Kev, I don't buy the idea that any pros have hit the skill ceilings of their race, or are even anywhere near. There's always room to improve, even if you are already the best in the world.
None of them have reached a true skill ceiling. But by any definition they've been peaking for a while in terms of their personal form. I don't think they can get much better than they are at the minute
I know it seems ridiculous to disregard their chances purely because they're good. I just think for an event like blizzcon, where players will show their true colours more than anywhere else, the more low key guys have a better chance (assuming they get in). Life and sOs defined this
I'd give blizzon to TY, sOs, or Dark, over Stats and Inno any day
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On September 27 2017 00:46 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 10:02 Fango wrote:On September 26 2017 09:32 KR_4EVR wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. It's complicated. You people don't understand the structure of a matrix or even the basic algebra associated with partial orders. The closest thing to a realistic ranking that is even close to factual over 2017 (to present) is the following 3by3 matrix (Yes Aligulac may say differently): . vsZ . . . . . vs P . . . . . . . vs T _______________________________________________________________ . soO . . . . Rogue . . . . . . Dark .......|..... best Zerg . . Stats . . . . sOs . . . . . . herO ........|.... best Protoss . . TY . . . . . . INnoVation . Gumiho ....|........ best Terran . . Of course I'm tempted to write (herO+Classic)/2 in the PvT spot and (2Gumiho - Byun + INnoVation)/2 in the TvT spot, but binary choices have to be made. Overall best: INnoVation, Stats, Dark Inno is honestly best at all three of the matchups for terran, TY has had issues with zergs whereas Inno never does. And his recent TvT run is insane. I would also say that in PvT, Zest>Stats>herO I agree zerg is split over soO Rogue and Dark, however Dark is the best overall. (this is right now btw, not over the course of the year) Zest in 2017 LOL
As of right now, Zest is looking like the best PvT. Even TY and Inno have said this iirc
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Just rewatched the final game of this series - How the hell did Stats manage cancelling the 5th, dropping the main + warp ins, dropping the nat, controlling his main army (splits + storms) in 20 seconds without losing everything? Top 3 control 100% confirmed.
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On September 26 2017 10:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 09:32 KR_4EVR wrote:On September 26 2017 04:15 Fango wrote:
Stats Dark and Inno are the obvious big three. Although I don't think it's by as big a margin as people say. TY, sOs, Classic, soO etc and a few others could beat them on a good day
And neither of the big three will win blizzcon imo. Blizzcon usually goes to whoever peaks on the day, not who was conistant over the year. It's complicated. You people don't understand the structure of a matrix or even the basic algebra associated with partial orders. The closest thing to a realistic ranking that is even close to factual over 2017 (to present) is the following 3by3 matrix (Yes Aligulac may say differently): . vsZ . . . . . vs P . . . . . . . vs T _______________________________________________________________ . soO . . . . Rogue . . . . . . Dark .......|..... best Zerg . . Stats . . . . sOs . . . . . . herO ........|.... best Protoss . . TY . . . . . . INnoVation . Gumiho ....|........ best Terran . . Of course I'm tempted to write (herO+Classic)/2 in the PvT spot and (2Gumiho - Byun + INnoVation)/2 in the TvT spot, but binary choices have to be made. Overall best: INnoVation, Stats, Dark Inno is honestly best at all three of the matchups for terran, TY has had issues with zergs whereas Inno never does. And his recent TvT run is insane. I would also say that in PvT, Zest>Stats>herO I agree zerg is split over soO Rogue and Dark, however Dark is the best overall. (this is right now btw, not over the course of the year)
You may be right. But definitely hard to tell over a year; the elements were my best guess. My main point was, ppl were saying, "his dude best that dude not" - better to be specific with all 9 options. (Yes, 6 matchups, but from any 1-person perspective, 9).
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EPT
2017 StarCraft II StarLeague Season 2/Premier
