On September 17 2017 02:58 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2017 22:07 ejozl wrote:On September 16 2017 20:53 pvsnp wrote:On September 16 2017 20:30 ejozl wrote:On September 16 2017 20:19 pvsnp wrote:On September 16 2017 20:17 ejozl wrote:On September 16 2017 20:03 pvsnp wrote:On September 16 2017 18:19 ejozl wrote:On September 16 2017 07:45 pvsnp wrote:On September 16 2017 07:42 Alarak89 wrote:
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And countless players (ofc including Bogus) said going to Blizzcon "is about the prestige" (and the money) as well. If you are going to seriously argue that being the best out of 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans over a couple days is somehow superior to being best out of 32 Koreans (or maybe with a few foreigners these days) over a couple months..... .....yeah, there's no point in continuing this discussion. A Starleague requires more skill to win, and that should simply be self-evident. Blizzcon also factors in how you did the entire year. It's supposed to be the culmination and end all tournament and I think it is. I personally value Blizzcon higher than GSL and I think a lot of players do as well. I agree that Blizzcon was more stacked pre WCS top 8 KR top 8, but the tournament still holds more prestige IMO. Blizzcon does have more prestige, because bigger $$$ prizepool, there's more PR and hype, and the winner gets the title of World Champion. But a Starleague takes more skill to win. I don't disagree, but you yourself said that to be GOAT you have to be the most accomplished. I'm saying that a Blizzcon win is more accomplishing than a GSL title. Why? If GOAT is a measurement of skill, as it should be, then we measure accomplishments because there is no way to directly and objectively measure skill. Accomplishments are (theoretically at least) the product of skill, so the biggest accomplishments are those which require the highest skill to achieve. i.e, GSL I think Blizzcon has a bigger entry and I think it's more top heavy as well. It's very easy to imagine, lets say, TY vs Stats finals. This could easily happen in both GSL and Blizzcon, but I think winning that match in Blizzcon holds more value, since there's the prestige of Blizzcon and everything that comes with it. They both will try and peak their skill around Blizzcon because it's the one they want the most, they will both have the biggest jitters here and mind games will have a bigger impact since both will be so focused on winning. If it was only about the player pool then an olimoleague or Ballistix Brawl could hold more value than a GSL and I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Well, at that point you are trying to factor in unquantifiable factors like how much each player "wants" to win a tournament. While that distinction is clear between online and offline tournaments, for instance, I don't know how you can really draw that distinction between GSL and Blizzcon. Sure, players probably "want" to win a Blizzcon more, but how large is that difference? And if you decide to consider factors like that, why not consider the factors of flying to the US, of practice partners available, of some player getting sick, or a thousand others? I prefer to stick to the (reasonably) quantifiable, objective measures, like time, player pool, and trophies. I'm not saying I value all these factors, I'm saying I value higher stakes the most. Stakes comes from higher prestige. Higher prestige means it's bigger tournament, bigger tournament means more accomplishing than lesser tournaments. That makes sense. The question of course is whether stakes translates directly to skill, which you apparently agree with and I disagree with.
Yep. I value a player's ability to play a best of series and ability to play under pressure very highly. That sOs series vs herO in IEM Katowice winner takes it all, is a very impressive feat to me. I would like to take the time to actually study it sometime.
I tend to dislike players who play tournaments as if they're just ladder games, INnoVation used to fall into this catagory, but he's evolved a lot as of this year in that regard. Grats to him.
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