EPTNeeb advances over sOs in GSL vs the World; soO reverse-sw…
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pNRG
United States333 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1970 Posts
On August 05 2017 05:15 pvsnp wrote: If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both. And clearly haven't made the slightest effort to actually watch any of his games. Come back once you have some semblance of a clue about the context. "Normally" is an imprecise and poorly chosen word to use in this circumstance. Like all players, INnoVation's form is in constant flux and can probably be fairly represented by a bell curve rather than one line labeled "Normally" with ever error he's ever committed slotted under that to be stricken from memory and discounted as irrelevant. INnoVation's baseline skill level is very high, but just going on this year's results alone (reverse all killed by Stats in GSL Season 1, dropping out in the R16 in Season 2, losing to aLive at Katowice and again in the first round of the Super Tournament) you start to see someone who regularly slips up in tournaments he is one of the heavy favorites (if not THE favorite) in. He won SSL and VSL, (SSL was enormously impressive, VSL not as much) but besides that INnoVation has been coasting on this "best player in the world" image since Gyeonggi. (Which is not in any way an indictment of him or his form. He can't control what people call him.) I'll say this so people can't misconstrue this post some TL Writer anti-INnoVation propaganda: INnoVation is one of the best players currently playing (and maybe ever in SC2), but he is mortal. It's not INnoVation who calls himself the best player in the world, it's writers like myself and the community (which includes you). Some of the people who do so should be a little more responsible when throwing terms like "Bonjwa" around and saying stuff like "If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both." because INnoVation loses plenty in situations he should objectively win, just like every other player. INnoVation lost to Scarlett in that game because Scarlett was the better player on that map, at that moment. He doesn't need you to make excuses for him. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On August 05 2017 05:59 mizenhauer wrote: [for] all players, [..] form is in constant flux and can probably be fairly represented by a bell curve ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nNFz0c4.png) | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 05 2017 05:59 mizenhauer wrote: "Normally" is an imprecise and poorly chosen word to use in this circumstance. Like all players, INnoVation's form is in constant flux and can probably be fairly represented by a bell curve rather than one line labeled "Normally" with ever error he's ever committed slotted under that to be stricken from memory and discounted as irrelevant. INnoVation's baseline skill level is very high, but just going on this year's results alone (reverse all killed by Stats in GSL Season 1, dropping out in the R16 in Season 2, losing to aLive at Katowice and again in the first round of the Super Tournament) you start to see someone who regularly slips up in tournaments he is one of the heavy favorites (if not THE favorite) in. He won SSL and VSL, (SSL was enormously impressive, VSL not as much) but besides that INnoVation has been coasting on this "best player in the world" image since Gyeonggi. (Which is not in any way an indictment of him or his form. He can't control what people call him.) I'll say this so people can't misconstrue this post some TL Writer anti-INnoVation propaganda: INnoVation is one of the best players currently playing (and maybe ever in SC2), but he is mortal. It's not INnoVation who calls himself the best player in the world, it's writers like myself and the community (which includes you). Some of the people who do so should be a little more responsible when throwing terms like "Bonjwa" around and saying stuff like "If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both." because INnoVation loses plenty in situations he should objectively win, just like every other player. INnoVation lost to Scarlett in that game because Scarlett was the better player on that map, at that moment. He doesn't need you to make excuses for him Thank you. Recognizing the subtleties of a player's form and how said player is viewed in the SC2 zeitgeist is rarely done, in my experience. I usually lack the patience to explain such nuances in the lowest-common-denominator environment of internet forums (especially when the conversation starts with such an intelligent opener as "here we go again with the INnoVation circlejerking"). Also I am mildly annoyed that you seem to have forgotten my post about the cultural relativism regarding the definition of bonjwa. Though regarding your criticism of "normally" as an "imprecise and poorly chosen word," then immediately referring to bell curves just made me laugh, even though I know this is semantics (technical vs vernacular definitions): ![[image loading]](https://www.mathsisfun.com/data/images/normal-distrubution-large.svg) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
This is an impossibly accurate depiction | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1970 Posts
I wasn't talking about over a period of time btw. I simply meant that most of the time players play at (or around) their baseline skill level and then, over a lesser amount of the time, they fall short of or exceed it. But, yes, that is Dear's career trajectory, although it actually peaked far higher and dipped lower.  | ||
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CBAS2TheHumanLife
Korea (South)29 Posts
ro16 Stats > herO SpeCial > Kelazhur INnoVation > iAsonu Serral < ByuN Neeb > sOs TY > Scarlett Nerchio < Dark soO > ShoWTimE ro8 Stats > SpeCial INnoVation > ByuN Neeb < TY Dark < soO ro4 Stats < INnoVation TY > soO final INnoVation < TY and looks like my predictions for first 2 days are all right :D | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4561 Posts
On August 05 2017 06:39 CBAS2TheHumanLife wrote: my prediction was ro16 Stats > herO SpeCial > Kelazhur INnoVation > iAsonu Serral < ByuN Neeb > sOs TY > Scarlett Nerchio < Dark soO > ShoWTimE ro8 Stats > SpeCial INnoVation > ByuN Neeb < TY Dark < soO ro4 Stats < INnoVation TY > soO final INnoVation < TY and looks like my predictions for first 2 days are all right :D i'll be back at the end of the tournament to tell everyone my predictions :D | ||
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Myrddrael
United Kingdom291 Posts
On August 05 2017 06:42 FataLe wrote: i'll be back at the end of the tournament to tell everyone my predictions :D This :') | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On August 05 2017 05:15 pvsnp wrote: If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both. And clearly haven't made the slightest effort to actually watch any of his games. Come back once you have some semblance of a clue about the context. I never claimed he regularly makes mistakes, what are you talking about? I hate when people do this. Every player makes mistakes, so scarlett took a game. Why do people always have to discredit people's wins by saying "oh, you know he wasn't being himself, he's blah blah blah. He lost a game. | ||
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highsis
259 Posts
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Blargh
United States2104 Posts
Also props for that Dear skill graph. It's so accurate! | ||
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CBAS2TheHumanLife
Korea (South)29 Posts
i'll be back at the end of the tournament to tell everyone my predictions :D the first two days were very easy to predict for anyone. All Koreans victory except Neeb > sOs cuz even Koreans predicted that Neeb will beat sOs :D | ||
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CBAS2TheHumanLife
Korea (South)29 Posts
This :') Do not ever doubt on Dark's vs foreigner again  | ||
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CBAS2TheHumanLife
Korea (South)29 Posts
I don't have all statistics in my head but isn't Elazer better than Nerchio or is it a close call between them? Nerchio is good but I'm a bit surprised not to see Elazer there. Nerchio was invited as top 4 in WCS Circuit. And I was also surprised that sOs was picked instead of GuMiho, Maru and Classic. (I understand that Rogue and Zest weren't picked as they were not showing great performances at that time during votes) but yea.. it was votes from fans, so what can you do about it? | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On August 05 2017 05:59 mizenhauer wrote: "Normally" is an imprecise and poorly chosen word to use in this circumstance. Like all players, INnoVation's form is in constant flux and can probably be fairly represented by a bell curve rather than one line labeled "Normally" with ever error he's ever committed slotted under that to be stricken from memory and discounted as irrelevant. INnoVation's baseline skill level is very high, but just going on this year's results alone (reverse all killed by Stats in GSL Season 1, dropping out in the R16 in Season 2, losing to aLive at Katowice and again in the first round of the Super Tournament) you start to see someone who regularly slips up in tournaments he is one of the heavy favorites (if not THE favorite) in. He won SSL and VSL, (SSL was enormously impressive, VSL not as much) but besides that INnoVation has been coasting on this "best player in the world" image since Gyeonggi. (Which is not in any way an indictment of him or his form. He can't control what people call him.) I'll say this so people can't misconstrue this post some TL Writer anti-INnoVation propaganda: INnoVation is one of the best players currently playing (and maybe ever in SC2), but he is mortal. It's not INnoVation who calls himself the best player in the world, it's writers like myself and the community (which includes you). Some of the people who do so should be a little more responsible when throwing terms like "Bonjwa" around and saying stuff like "If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both." because INnoVation loses plenty in situations he should objectively win, just like every other player. INnoVation lost to Scarlett in that game because Scarlett was the better player on that map, at that moment. He doesn't need you to make excuses for him. Great post. | ||
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beepbeeeeeeep
145 Posts
oh my god thank you. this is how i felt liquibetting on Dear games last season | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On August 05 2017 05:15 pvsnp wrote: If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both. And clearly haven't made the slightest effort to actually watch any of his games. Come back once you have some semblance of a clue about the context. you're proving his point. yes inno makes mistakes, yes he will lose games and no you don't get to make up that he "didnt care". i understand youre a big fan of the player but hes not a perfect unbeatable god and he will make a percentage of mistakes like any other player - just the lowest percentage. when the top player has his worst day that still counts. if you count only a player's best day then everyone is innovation. what makes him different is consistently making fewer mistakes than anyone, not being "above" mistakes like some kind of morally pure archangel beast the player worship in sc2 is embarrassing... | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On August 05 2017 04:26 pvsnp wrote: Inno played horribly against Scarlett but for some reason (delusion) some people think that he was at peak form. Peak Inno doesn't throw away four full medivacs for free, nor does he completely fail to scout the opponent, nor does he lose to just about any Zerg, ever (possibly Life). Peak Inno can be seen in 2013 WCS Season 2 OSL Ro8 against Soulkey, or several other games from the early-HotS era. Inno in the recent GSL Season 3 wasn't even at his 2017 peak, if you want to see that watch Inno vs Dark at IEM Katowice or Inno vs ByuL in GSL Season 1. TY simply took Scarlett seriously and played safe. He demonstrated what happens when a top KR Terran gets serious against Scarlett. Peak Inno in 2013 threw away full medivacs tho. It was glorious tbh. | ||
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