On August 05 2017 07:24 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 05:15 pvsnp wrote:On August 05 2017 05:09 youngjiddle wrote:On August 05 2017 04:26 pvsnp wrote:On August 05 2017 02:24 ParksonVN wrote:On August 05 2017 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
It was a shame.
- Neeb vs. sOs - well done, good series, Neeb played excellent games and sOs was behind.
- TY vs. Scarlett - disappointment, after Scarlett was destroying Inno. in GSL, TY somehow took her seriously, did not make any mistakes and slowly built his lead in each game. So sad about that 3-0.
- Dark vs. Nerchio - if I was a foreigner playing against Dark or Life, I would be sure, they want to make fun of me and would expect pool first. But acknowledgements to Nerchio that he did not break down after 2-0 and won a very good macro game. Unfortunately, Dark was also able to win the next macrogame. But this was a good series.
- ShowTime vs. soO - disappointment, nobody expected anything from ShowTime and he surprised. But a full foreigner at the end it was. Inno is so good that losing 1-2 to him can also be sonsidered destroying him. Inno played horribly against Scarlett but for some reason (delusion) some people think that he was at peak form. Peak Inno doesn't throw away four full medivacs for free, nor does he completely fail to scout the opponent, nor does he lose to just about any Zerg, ever (possibly Life). Peak Inno can be seen in 2013 WCS Season 2 OSL Ro8 against Soulkey, or several other games from the early-HotS era. Inno in the recent GSL Season 3 wasn't even at his 2017 peak, if you want to see that watch Inno vs Dark at IEM Katowice or Inno vs ByuL in GSL Season 1. TY simply took Scarlett seriously and played safe. He demonstrated what happens when a top KR Terran gets serious against Scarlett. here we go again with the innovation circlejerking. because any time innovation doesn't do something perfect he "just wasn't taking it serious" If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both. And clearly haven't made the slightest effort to actually watch any of his games. Come back once you have some semblance of a clue about the context. I never claimed he regularly makes mistakes, what are you talking about? I hate when people do this. Every player makes mistakes, so scarlett took a game. Why do people always have to discredit people's wins by saying "oh, you know he wasn't being himself, he's blah blah blah. He lost a game.
On August 05 2017 09:30 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 05:15 pvsnp wrote:On August 05 2017 05:09 youngjiddle wrote:On August 05 2017 04:26 pvsnp wrote:On August 05 2017 02:24 ParksonVN wrote:On August 05 2017 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
It was a shame.
- Neeb vs. sOs - well done, good series, Neeb played excellent games and sOs was behind.
- TY vs. Scarlett - disappointment, after Scarlett was destroying Inno. in GSL, TY somehow took her seriously, did not make any mistakes and slowly built his lead in each game. So sad about that 3-0.
- Dark vs. Nerchio - if I was a foreigner playing against Dark or Life, I would be sure, they want to make fun of me and would expect pool first. But acknowledgements to Nerchio that he did not break down after 2-0 and won a very good macro game. Unfortunately, Dark was also able to win the next macrogame. But this was a good series.
- ShowTime vs. soO - disappointment, nobody expected anything from ShowTime and he surprised. But a full foreigner at the end it was. Inno is so good that losing 1-2 to him can also be sonsidered destroying him. Inno played horribly against Scarlett but for some reason (delusion) some people think that he was at peak form. Peak Inno doesn't throw away four full medivacs for free, nor does he completely fail to scout the opponent, nor does he lose to just about any Zerg, ever (possibly Life). Peak Inno can be seen in 2013 WCS Season 2 OSL Ro8 against Soulkey, or several other games from the early-HotS era. Inno in the recent GSL Season 3 wasn't even at his 2017 peak, if you want to see that watch Inno vs Dark at IEM Katowice or Inno vs ByuL in GSL Season 1. TY simply took Scarlett seriously and played safe. He demonstrated what happens when a top KR Terran gets serious against Scarlett. here we go again with the innovation circlejerking. because any time innovation doesn't do something perfect he "just wasn't taking it serious" If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both. And clearly haven't made the slightest effort to actually watch any of his games. Come back once you have some semblance of a clue about the context. you're proving his point. yes inno makes mistakes, yes he will lose games and no you don't get to make up that he "didnt care". i understand youre a big fan of the player but hes not a perfect unbeatable god and he will make a percentage of mistakes like any other player - just the lowest percentage. when the top player has his worst day that still counts. if you count only a player's best day then everyone is innovation. what makes him different is consistently making fewer mistakes than anyone, not being "above" mistakes like some kind of morally pure archangel beast the player worship in sc2 is embarrassing...
On August 05 2017 12:27 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 04:26 pvsnp wrote:On August 05 2017 02:24 ParksonVN wrote:On August 05 2017 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
It was a shame.
- Neeb vs. sOs - well done, good series, Neeb played excellent games and sOs was behind.
- TY vs. Scarlett - disappointment, after Scarlett was destroying Inno. in GSL, TY somehow took her seriously, did not make any mistakes and slowly built his lead in each game. So sad about that 3-0.
- Dark vs. Nerchio - if I was a foreigner playing against Dark or Life, I would be sure, they want to make fun of me and would expect pool first. But acknowledgements to Nerchio that he did not break down after 2-0 and won a very good macro game. Unfortunately, Dark was also able to win the next macrogame. But this was a good series.
- ShowTime vs. soO - disappointment, nobody expected anything from ShowTime and he surprised. But a full foreigner at the end it was. Inno is so good that losing 1-2 to him can also be sonsidered destroying him. Inno played horribly against Scarlett but for some reason (delusion) some people think that he was at peak form. Peak Inno doesn't throw away four full medivacs for free, nor does he completely fail to scout the opponent, nor does he lose to just about any Zerg, ever (possibly Life). Peak Inno can be seen in 2013 WCS Season 2 OSL Ro8 against Soulkey, or several other games from the early-HotS era. Inno in the recent GSL Season 3 wasn't even at his 2017 peak, if you want to see that watch Inno vs Dark at IEM Katowice or Inno vs ByuL in GSL Season 1. TY simply took Scarlett seriously and played safe. He demonstrated what happens when a top KR Terran gets serious against Scarlett. Peak Inno in 2013 threw away full medivacs tho. It was glorious tbh.
Mizenhauer already addressed everything, and I don't feel like reiterating what he said. Suffice to say fluctuations in form happen to everyone, and Inno that day was hardly in peak form. It's only fair to apply the same logic to every other player, including Scarlett.
Expecting her to play as well as she did against Inno, or for TY to play as poorly as he did when he got reverse-swept by soO, is just as foolish as assuming Inno will always be in peak form or that he will always get reverse-swept.
Assuming a sufficiently large sample (relatively speaking) a rough (and inherently subjective) estimate of the median form of a player can be deduced, and applied for predictive purposes (basically a crude form of regression). It might sound complex but it's very intuitive and probably what any rational person is already doing. Such a prediction won't always be correct, of course, but it's better than nothing. And applying this back to the original point, TY > Scarlett, so it shouldn't be a surprise or disappointment that he won 3-0 yesterday (as OP expressed), Scarlett's momentary peak in GSL notwithstanding (after today it appears to be an outlier).
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