• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:47
CEST 10:47
KST 17:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow3[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30
Community News
MaNa leaves Team Liquid8$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy5GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding7Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion [ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow JD's Ro24 review The Korean Terminology Thread so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight.
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group A Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The China Politics Thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2904 users

Neeb advances over sOs in GSL vs the World; soO reverse-sw…

Forum Index > SC2 General
46 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-05 04:38:18
August 05 2017 04:12 GMT
#41
On August 05 2017 07:24 youngjiddle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2017 05:15 pvsnp wrote:
On August 05 2017 05:09 youngjiddle wrote:
On August 05 2017 04:26 pvsnp wrote:
On August 05 2017 02:24 ParksonVN wrote:
On August 05 2017 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
It was a shame.
- Neeb vs. sOs - well done, good series, Neeb played excellent games and sOs was behind.
- TY vs. Scarlett - disappointment, after Scarlett was destroying Inno. in GSL, TY somehow took her seriously, did not make any mistakes and slowly built his lead in each game. So sad about that 3-0.
- Dark vs. Nerchio - if I was a foreigner playing against Dark or Life, I would be sure, they want to make fun of me and would expect pool first. But acknowledgements to Nerchio that he did not break down after 2-0 and won a very good macro game. Unfortunately, Dark was also able to win the next macrogame. But this was a good series.
- ShowTime vs. soO - disappointment, nobody expected anything from ShowTime and he surprised. But a full foreigner at the end it was.


Inno is so good that losing 1-2 to him can also be sonsidered destroying him.

Inno played horribly against Scarlett but for some reason (delusion) some people think that he was at peak form. Peak Inno doesn't throw away four full medivacs for free, nor does he completely fail to scout the opponent, nor does he lose to just about any Zerg, ever (possibly Life). Peak Inno can be seen in 2013 WCS Season 2 OSL Ro8 against Soulkey, or several other games from the early-HotS era. Inno in the recent GSL Season 3 wasn't even at his 2017 peak, if you want to see that watch Inno vs Dark at IEM Katowice or Inno vs ByuL in GSL Season 1.

TY simply took Scarlett seriously and played safe. He demonstrated what happens when a top KR Terran gets serious against Scarlett.


here we go again with the innovation circlejerking.

because any time innovation doesn't do something perfect he "just wasn't taking it serious"

If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both. And clearly haven't made the slightest effort to actually watch any of his games.

Come back once you have some semblance of a clue about the context.


I never claimed he regularly makes mistakes, what are you talking about? I hate when people do this.

Every player makes mistakes, so scarlett took a game. Why do people always have to discredit people's wins by saying "oh, you know he wasn't being himself, he's blah blah blah.

He lost a game.


On August 05 2017 09:30 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2017 05:15 pvsnp wrote:
On August 05 2017 05:09 youngjiddle wrote:
On August 05 2017 04:26 pvsnp wrote:
On August 05 2017 02:24 ParksonVN wrote:
On August 05 2017 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
It was a shame.
- Neeb vs. sOs - well done, good series, Neeb played excellent games and sOs was behind.
- TY vs. Scarlett - disappointment, after Scarlett was destroying Inno. in GSL, TY somehow took her seriously, did not make any mistakes and slowly built his lead in each game. So sad about that 3-0.
- Dark vs. Nerchio - if I was a foreigner playing against Dark or Life, I would be sure, they want to make fun of me and would expect pool first. But acknowledgements to Nerchio that he did not break down after 2-0 and won a very good macro game. Unfortunately, Dark was also able to win the next macrogame. But this was a good series.
- ShowTime vs. soO - disappointment, nobody expected anything from ShowTime and he surprised. But a full foreigner at the end it was.


Inno is so good that losing 1-2 to him can also be sonsidered destroying him.

Inno played horribly against Scarlett but for some reason (delusion) some people think that he was at peak form. Peak Inno doesn't throw away four full medivacs for free, nor does he completely fail to scout the opponent, nor does he lose to just about any Zerg, ever (possibly Life). Peak Inno can be seen in 2013 WCS Season 2 OSL Ro8 against Soulkey, or several other games from the early-HotS era. Inno in the recent GSL Season 3 wasn't even at his 2017 peak, if you want to see that watch Inno vs Dark at IEM Katowice or Inno vs ByuL in GSL Season 1.

TY simply took Scarlett seriously and played safe. He demonstrated what happens when a top KR Terran gets serious against Scarlett.


here we go again with the innovation circlejerking.

because any time innovation doesn't do something perfect he "just wasn't taking it serious"

If you actually think a guy regularly called the best player in the world normally makes the mistakes he did against Scarlett, you are blind or ignorant or both. And clearly haven't made the slightest effort to actually watch any of his games.

Come back once you have some semblance of a clue about the context.

you're proving his point. yes inno makes mistakes, yes he will lose games and no you don't get to make up that he "didnt care". i understand youre a big fan of the player but hes not a perfect unbeatable god and he will make a percentage of mistakes like any other player - just the lowest percentage. when the top player has his worst day that still counts. if you count only a player's best day then everyone is innovation. what makes him different is consistently making fewer mistakes than anyone, not being "above" mistakes like some kind of morally pure archangel beast

the player worship in sc2 is embarrassing...


On August 05 2017 12:27 Phredxor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2017 04:26 pvsnp wrote:
On August 05 2017 02:24 ParksonVN wrote:
On August 05 2017 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
It was a shame.
- Neeb vs. sOs - well done, good series, Neeb played excellent games and sOs was behind.
- TY vs. Scarlett - disappointment, after Scarlett was destroying Inno. in GSL, TY somehow took her seriously, did not make any mistakes and slowly built his lead in each game. So sad about that 3-0.
- Dark vs. Nerchio - if I was a foreigner playing against Dark or Life, I would be sure, they want to make fun of me and would expect pool first. But acknowledgements to Nerchio that he did not break down after 2-0 and won a very good macro game. Unfortunately, Dark was also able to win the next macrogame. But this was a good series.
- ShowTime vs. soO - disappointment, nobody expected anything from ShowTime and he surprised. But a full foreigner at the end it was.


Inno is so good that losing 1-2 to him can also be sonsidered destroying him.

Inno played horribly against Scarlett but for some reason (delusion) some people think that he was at peak form. Peak Inno doesn't throw away four full medivacs for free, nor does he completely fail to scout the opponent, nor does he lose to just about any Zerg, ever (possibly Life). Peak Inno can be seen in 2013 WCS Season 2 OSL Ro8 against Soulkey, or several other games from the early-HotS era. Inno in the recent GSL Season 3 wasn't even at his 2017 peak, if you want to see that watch Inno vs Dark at IEM Katowice or Inno vs ByuL in GSL Season 1.

TY simply took Scarlett seriously and played safe. He demonstrated what happens when a top KR Terran gets serious against Scarlett.


Peak Inno in 2013 threw away full medivacs tho. It was glorious tbh.


Mizenhauer already addressed everything, and I don't feel like reiterating what he said. Suffice to say fluctuations in form happen to everyone, and Inno that day was hardly in peak form. It's only fair to apply the same logic to every other player, including Scarlett.

Expecting her to play as well as she did against Inno, or for TY to play as poorly as he did when he got reverse-swept by soO, is just as foolish as assuming Inno will always be in peak form or that he will always get reverse-swept.

Assuming a sufficiently large sample (relatively speaking) a rough (and inherently subjective) estimate of the median form of a player can be deduced, and applied for predictive purposes (basically a crude form of regression). It might sound complex but it's very intuitive and probably what any rational person is already doing. Such a prediction won't always be correct, of course, but it's better than nothing. And applying this back to the original point, TY > Scarlett, so it shouldn't be a surprise or disappointment that he won 3-0 yesterday (as OP expressed), Scarlett's momentary peak in GSL notwithstanding (after today it appears to be an outlier).
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
zyce
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States649 Posts
August 05 2017 04:34 GMT
#42
Congratulations to the winners!

On August 05 2017 13:12 pvsnp wrote:
WORDS



Someone please make it stop.
Beauty is not the goal of competitive sports, but high-level sports are a prime venue for the expression of human beauty. The relation is roughly that of courage to war.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-05 04:42:11
August 05 2017 04:39 GMT
#43
On August 05 2017 13:34 zyce wrote:
Congratulations to the winners!

Show nested quote +
On August 05 2017 13:12 pvsnp wrote:
WORDS



Someone please make it stop.

It looks like I included this line for nothing.
On August 05 2017 13:12 pvsnp wrote:
It might sound complex but it's very intuitive and probably what any rational person is already doing.



Without bringing the actual math in (though least-squares is not particularly complex itself), there's nothing counterintuitive about using past results to predict future performance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_squares
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
August 05 2017 05:15 GMT
#44
Thats a lot of words. All i'm saying it that peak Inno isn't perfect either. He can indeed fly medivacacs into certain death and has done so.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17442 Posts
August 05 2017 05:24 GMT
#45
4 interesting series. the Protoss mirror was good. the Zerg mirror was ok. i liked seeing Mech from TY in game 1. the game is in a great spot.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
muppet70
Profile Joined January 2017
Sweden72 Posts
August 05 2017 14:49 GMT
#46
On August 05 2017 08:16 CBAS2TheHumanLife wrote:
Show nested quote +
I don't have all statistics in my head but isn't Elazer better than Nerchio or is it a close call between them?
Nerchio is good but I'm a bit surprised not to see Elazer there.


Nerchio was invited as top 4 in WCS Circuit. And I was also surprised that sOs was picked instead of GuMiho, Maru and Classic. (I understand that Rogue and Zest weren't picked as they were not showing great performances at that time during votes) but yea.. it was votes from fans, so what can you do about it?



I thought so too, but looking at liquipedia
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Portal:2017_WCS

Elazer is sitting 2 pinholes above Nerchio.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55570 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-05 14:51:50
August 05 2017 14:51 GMT
#47
On August 05 2017 23:49 muppet70 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2017 08:16 CBAS2TheHumanLife wrote:
I don't have all statistics in my head but isn't Elazer better than Nerchio or is it a close call between them?
Nerchio is good but I'm a bit surprised not to see Elazer there.


Nerchio was invited as top 4 in WCS Circuit. And I was also surprised that sOs was picked instead of GuMiho, Maru and Classic. (I understand that Rogue and Zest weren't picked as they were not showing great performances at that time during votes) but yea.. it was votes from fans, so what can you do about it?



I thought so too, but looking at liquipedia
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Portal:2017_WCS

Elazer is sitting 2 pinholes above Nerchio.

That's after the last WCS tournament, which wasn't considered yet for GSL vs The World. Before that, Nerchio was ahead of Elazer so he got invited.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft482
Nina 141
SortOf 96
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 22548
Jaedong 877
BeSt 225
Killer 216
Larva 209
firebathero 184
910 122
actioN 117
ggaemo 74
ZerO 52
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 39
soO 33
NotJumperer 23
Bale 16
yabsab 16
ToSsGirL 10
Terrorterran 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe308
NeuroSwarm164
League of Legends
JimRising 507
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss875
kRYSTAL_32
Other Games
crisheroes115
Mew2King28
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV470
Counter-Strike
PGL464
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH247
• LUISG 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade899
• Stunt838
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
13m
Afreeca Starleague
1h 13m
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Wardi Open
2h 13m
Monday Night Weeklies
7h 13m
OSC
15h 13m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 1h
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 1h
GSL
1d 3h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Escore
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
IPSL
5 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Ladder Legends
6 days
BSL
6 days
IPSL
6 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.