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GSL Super Tournament Preview - Power Rank

Forum Index > SC2 General
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GSL Super Tournament Preview - Power Rank

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics bymunch
April 5th, 2017 14:26 GMT

GSL Super Tournament
Power Rank
Brackets and standings on Liquipedia

GSL Super Tournament



It might be only a month on from IEM Katowice, but the Korean SC2 scene refuses to slow down. After Season 1 of the GSL reached its conclusion, and with the SSL and VSL stepping into gear, Afreeca’s Super Tournament lies at a crossroads for many in the scene. Will the players in form continue their hot streaks? Or will sleeping giants roar to life? Time for another power rank.


Power Rank



16. (P)Hush

Hush has been one of the most prolific Koreans on the online circuit in 2017. Unlike most of his countrymen though, he’s made a speciality in foreign events, from go4sc2 cups to various NA tournaments. However, while he's done a decent enough job against unknown opposition, his results against Koreans have been truly dreadful—a 37% winrate this year so far, including a mind boggling 10% winrate in PvT. Of course, he’s had a few successes along the way—two 2-1s over aLive and GuMiho in Olimoleague 84 is the standout, but there’s no doubt that he should be ranked a clear tier below everyone else in the competition.


15. (T)Bunny

The second of our two DuSt Gaming players in the competition, Bunny impressed in patches at the start of 2017, making waves in online competition while advancing to the Round of 16 in the GSL. Since then, with plenty of players ascending the rankings, he’s only gone backwards. Elimination in the open bracket of IEM Katowice was a blow, as was losing to Rogue in a limp 0-2 in the VSL hours after beating him with ease in the opening match. His SSL campaign isn’t going well either—losing to TY last week. In fact, the only thing going right for him so far is qualification for this Super Tournament; coming as it did over JYP and Impact though, that’s not the biggest statement of intent. Much like Hush, even advancing past the first round should be considered an encouraging performance here.


14. (T)Ryung

The more we see from Ryung, the more it becomes clear that his top 4 finish in last season’s GSL perhaps oversells him. Maru in particular was especially poor in their quarterfinal match, while beating ByuN, DRGLing, Trap and Leenock is hardly the strongest run to the playoffs either. It’s clear that either INnoVation’s far better at TvT than anyone else in the world right now (unlikely, given his subsequent match against aLive), or that Ryung’s maybe not as good as we thought, given the ease of his 0-3 humbling in Katowice. His other two matchups simply aren’t that great either, although props to him for a decent performance against Stats in the GSL semis.


13. (Z)ByuL

Last week, it looked like everything was coming up trumps for ByuL. A confident 2-0 start in the SSL Premier and progress to the quarterfinals of the VSL meant that things were looking up for the ex-CJ ace for the first time in LotV. Then, he managed to lose to Impact in an offline match in Korea, and to Patience in the SSL. Great—looks like we’re back to square one. Statistically, his ZvZ is his strongest matchup in the past couple months at 67% (despite his historical weakness in the mirror), but with no zergs in his half of the bracket he’s going to have a tough road to the finals. He's been inconsistent in Legacy so far—up one week, plummeting the next—and he'll have to hope that he times his run in form to perfection.


12. (Z)Solar

At the end of last year, Solar was on an all time high. Finally claiming his first starleague title over Dark in SSL Season 2, an entertaining showing at HomeStory Cup earned him a contract offer from Splyce as their first foray into SC2. The fact that they added Stats to the roster gave them the strongest 1-2 punch in the whole Starcraft scene, and we entered 2017 expecting both to excel. While Stats has thoroughly matched those expectations, Solar has floundered. While he hasn’t been awful (online winrates of 72% and 66% in ZvP and ZvZ respectively are impressive), it’s his offline form which has been disappointing. Losses to TY and Trap in the GSL were ugly, while his 0-3 loss to Dark in Poland saw him hopelessly outmatched. He has undergone a mini-resurgence in the SSL Premier—winning all three matches so far, albeit either against struggling opposition (sOs, Zest) or one with much more important concerns on his mind (Stats pre-GSL)—and hopefully we’ll see more from him here.


11. (T)Maru

It’s funny to see last year’s WESG results and see just how far the two finalists’ paths have diverged. TY may have scraped a 4-3 win there, but the gap between them has widened significantly since then. While Maru did manage to qualify for the SSL Premier, his campaign has stalled out of the gate, with ugly losses to Stats and INnoVation comprehensively demonstrating how far his star has fallen. He simply hasn’t played enough to be considered for a higher spot.


10. (P)Dear

Dear’s flown completely under the radar in 2017. He’s not a prominent streamer, he failed to qualify for GSL, and he missed out on the two IEMs too. That said, his recent uptick in results is notable, and in particular his PvT has looked good—see his solid win over ByuN in the SSL Challenge last week. It’s easy to forget that Dear is the same player who made that run in 2013, or more importantly that he made three consecutive GSL semifinals from the end of 2015 to 2016, and it’ll be a bold opponent who overlooks him here.


9. (T)GuMiho

And so the rollercoaster continues for GuMiho. The Towel Terran is the most frustratingly, endearingly entertaining player in Starcraft, equally capable of inventive brilliance and ham-fisted screw-ups. Much like aLive, he’ll have plenty of regrets over his tight 2-3 loss to TY at Katowice, and since that quarterfinal exit his chances have been limited. A loss to herO last week in the SSL Challenge was a poor start to his campaign, while ignoring the VSL has meant that he’s been a little invisible in the offline game. However, his dominance in the Ting Open—wins over soO and Neeb online, before smashing aLive 4-0 and Neeb 5-2 in the offline finals—was some of the best Starcraft we’ve seen from him in a while.


8. (P)herO

Katowice was a major disappointment for herO. His ultra-aggressive PvT style backfired—beaten heavily by Ryung and ByuN—while Solar too easily dispatched of him. In general, he just looked sloppy—poor execution of aggressive strategies rarely works well. Elimination in the group stages of his event isn’t something he’s used to when signing up for IEMs. Since then, though, he’s started to put the pieces together again. Progressing to the quarterfinals of the VSL was a start (beating ByuN in the process), while wins over Dear and GuMiho have put him in pole position to advance to the second stage of the SSL Challenge. While he’s still nowhere near his peak, there’s no doubt he’ll be a threat here at the Super Tournament.


7. (T)aLive

It’s hard to remember the last time a player bought himself so much credit with one tournament—particularly a player as established as aLive. His run had a bit of everything—a 5-0 sweep of his group, a fantastic series against INnoVation featuring an all-time classic of a Game 5, and an enjoyably messy 2-3 loss to TY in the semifinals. His entertaining play and sartorial choices have bought him a well-earned move to mYinsanity, although unfortunately it likely means the end of his glorious run of PJ appearances. Eight years of play and nine teams later, aLive has finally found the acclaim he’s always deserved.


6. (T)TY

It’s pretty ironic really; a month after placing #5 in our IEM Katowice Power Rank, TY returns… in 6th. While TY demonstrated plenty of qualities in Poland—his newly-found mental resilience to clinch the win in the ace match, and his traditionally eclectic variety of builds—it also raised some questions that remain unanswered. Firstly, it’s notable that in his 9-match run to the title, he played no TvZ at all, while he looked distinctly unimpressive in his 2-3 loss to soO a couple weeks before. Secondly, an absurd number of his games went all the way to the deciding map (2-1 jjakji, 2-1 Harstem, 3-2 GuMiho, 3-2 aLive, 4-3 Stats—five in total). It’s truly eyeraising that his TvT winrate for 2017 is a mere 54%—while winning that final set is clearly all that’s important, it also brings into question the likelihood of a repeat of his Katowice run.


5. (T)ByuN

Slowly, ByuN is sliding down the Korean Starcraft hierarchy. While that’s probably more to do with the great performances from others—the arrival of Stats as a championship calibre protoss, the return of INnoVation and soO to the big boy table—it’s also a sign of his stagnation. Time and again he’s lost out this year to players who must simply be considered better now, whether across the board or in specific matchups. Losses to Stats and Ryung both in GSL and at IEM Katowice; losses to Stats and INnoVation in the SSL qualifiers; losses to ByuL and herO in the VSL group stages; a loss to Dear just last week in the SSL Challenge. He can take all the online wins he wants (a staggering 279-96 record this year so far), but ultimately, reputations are won and lost on LAN.


4. (Z)soO

There’s really not much to say about soO, is there? Once again, we stand on the other side of a GSL Final, finding reasons for yet another soO loss. Of all his GSL defeats, this most recent loss to Stats was by far the ugliest. His repeated failure to cope with stasis harassment doomed him to failure, constantly denied the economy to cope with either Stats’ mid-game timings or late-game compositions. Still, as ever with soO, you can’t deny that his run to the finals was impressive. Wins over Dark, TY, and sOs is a pretty impressive triplet, and despite his failure in the qualifiers for the SSL and VSL, along with his patchy online form, the sheer weight of his accomplishment means that he deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt.


3. (Z)Dark

soO’s run in the GSL raised eyebrows, not least for his elimination of Dark in the ex-SKT teamkill group of death. Not only did it maintain Dark’s stellar record of failing to make the GSL playoffs, it also broached the question of Dark’s unimpeachable hold over the zerg race in Legacy of the Void. For the first time in over a year, we were questioning the identity of the best zerg in the world. That maybe says as much about Dark as it did soO. For all his consistency—reaching the finals of both seasons of SSL last year, losing to ByuN at BlizzCon, finishing in the top 4 at both IEM Gyeonggi and Katowice—it’s becoming an awkward fact that Dark hasn’t won a tournament for almost exactly one year. And as his ex-stablemate will tell him, losing deep into a tournament isn’t a habit he should want to indulge.


2. (T)INnoVation

Oh INnoVation. You just love to disappoint, don’t you? Heading into IEM Katowice, INnoVation was the best player in the world. His 2-3 reverse kill loss to Stats in the GSL was a mere dent in his record—an error he’d hope to fix in Poland. In a tournament stacked with terran talent, INnoVation was the final boss of the terran mirror—a 70% winrate for the year, with frequent wins online against all his contenders for the terran throne.

What does he do? 1-2 GuMiho, 1-2 uThermal, 2-3 aLive (albeit with a 3-0 detour over similarly struggling Ryung in the Ro.12).

Still, there’s no doubt that he remains in the very top tier of Starcraft players in Korea right now. His 6-0 rampage over his fellow SSL Premier contestants (2-0 Zest, 2-0 Dark, 2-0 Maru) shows no signs of stopping just yet, although somewhat patchy online form means that he does enter the Super Tournament with more questions surrounding him than in Katowice. It’s undeniable that for all the hype and praise surrounding him recently, he’s still only won a single, relatively minor tournament this season in IEM Gyeonggi. Time for him to correct that.


1. (P)Stats

The problem with calling Stats a Kong heading into the GSL Finals was that he really wasn’t one, and reducing his previous tournament placements to mere numbers detracts from the full story of his path to the top. Throughout HotS, he was the king of the second tier protosses; perfectly capable of denting anyone in Proleague, but without the necessary tools to impact on the latter stages of a starleague. His two SSL Top 4 finishes revealed the cap to his talent; soundly beaten by Maru and Classic on their paths to eventual glory.

LotV in 2016 told a similar story—bested by Dark in the SSL Finals, Neeb in the KeSPA Cup semis, ByuN in the BlizzCon semis, and Patience in the HSC semis once more. The key linking those losses together? His opponent was favoured on practically every occasion, save for Neeb—who demonstrated an understanding of PvP far above that of his opponents in that tournament—and Patience—in the middle of a career-high week-long peak in form.

Finally we come to the current WCS season, and it was instantly clear that Stats had kicked into a whole new gear. Stellar play at Gyeonggi and Katowice led to double silvers, but only the most ardent of Stats fans will have argued that he wasn’t hopelessly outgunned by INnoVation in one of the most one-sided finals in Starcraft history, while his 3-4 loss to ex-teammate TY was as close as things get.

The definition of a Kong is a player who repeatedly loses in finals despite being a clear championship contender—a player who fails to learn from his lessons; fails to get better; fails to fix the reasons behind his previous losses. Stats is a whole different story. He’s a player who’s repeatedly come up against better players, and who’s gone away to fix his issues, returning as a stronger player. The best example is the sheer difference in his PvT between IEM appearances—the vast chasm of quality between his losses to INnoVation and his clean wins over ByuN, for example. Throughout Legacy of the Void, Stats has taken hit after hit, and come back stronger and stronger. Now, he stands as the best player in the world.




Credits:
Writers: munch.
Editors: munch.
Graphics: munch.
Stats: Aligulac

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TL+ Member
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50123 Posts
April 05 2017 14:27 GMT
#2
munch rank?
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
April 05 2017 14:28 GMT
#3
3 dark
10 dear
12 solar
...
TL+ Member
ZertoN
Profile Joined February 2014
Germany214 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-09 02:31:46
April 05 2017 14:45 GMT
#4
this has to be the worst ranking ive seen yet. maru at 11, byul at 13, solar at 12 and soo at 4????
"I don't like games that i need to think a lot, i am not interested in those games." - TaeJa, 2016
Scarlett`
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada2385 Posts
April 05 2017 15:03 GMT
#5
gumiho over dear & solar ~_~?
Progamer
Kaizor
Profile Joined May 2015
Singapore909 Posts
April 05 2017 15:10 GMT
#6
sometimes i really wonder do the TL writers screw up the rankings on purpose to create controversy and attract interest.

Hit me up if you need chinese translations. soO fighting !!
starkiller123
Profile Joined January 2016
United States4030 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 15:32:05
April 05 2017 15:30 GMT
#7
Lol wtf are Dear and Gumiho doing so high?? I would put Dear below Bunny and Gumiho below Ryung. I alsp question soO above TY
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
April 05 2017 15:33 GMT
#8
On April 06 2017 00:03 Scarlett` wrote:
gumiho over dear & solar ~_~?

#10 is still too high for #1 choker :D
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
KappaKingPrime
Profile Joined May 2014
United States468 Posts
April 05 2017 15:41 GMT
#9
I would put #1 INnoVation, because he is INnoVation.
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
April 05 2017 16:36 GMT
#10
some ammunition for shitposters, great
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
April 05 2017 16:37 GMT
#11
Maru #11???? I dont want to live in this planet anymore
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 17:00:02
April 05 2017 16:54 GMT
#12
Dear is way too high, as if he was put there just to troll posters.

Can't see how Dark is still above soO either, we're not in 2016 anymore..
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Ishmael
Profile Joined June 2016
92 Posts
April 05 2017 17:06 GMT
#13
On April 06 2017 01:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:

Can't see how Dark is still above soO either, we're not in 2016 anymore..


was just about to post the exact opposite ... soO wins against a terrible terrible sOs and then gets wrecked by stats, proceeds to fail to qualify for anything, and we're supposed to treat the GSL as a return to form, not just bracket and luck fluke ... ??

I love soO, he's got a ways to go before he can be considered on Dark's LOTV level
The Nature of Infinity is this: That every thing has its own Vortex
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
April 05 2017 17:13 GMT
#14
Joke list

ByuN should be #1, Maru #2
Community News
TL+ Member
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 17:22:25
April 05 2017 17:19 GMT
#15
On April 06 2017 02:06 Ishmael wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 01:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:

Can't see how Dark is still above soO either, we're not in 2016 anymore..


was just about to post the exact opposite ... soO wins against a terrible terrible sOs and then gets wrecked by stats, proceeds to fail to qualify for anything, and we're supposed to treat the GSL as a return to form, not just bracket and luck fluke ... ??

I love soO, he's got a ways to go before he can be considered on Dark's LOTV level


As I understand, power ranks place more emphasis on recent form (another reason why I don't see how in the world Dear is where he is..)

- Dark also got rekt by Stats at IEM Katowice

- Dark had an even easier run at IEM Katowice playing mostly foreigners and ZvZ

- Dark went down in the same group of death that soO was in, 0-4

- In general, Dark has a much smaller sampling of games in 2017 to go with as opposed to soO.

About the only edge Dark has atm is also being in SSL, where soO isn't even in Challenger.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 17:42:34
April 05 2017 17:41 GMT
#16
Here come the shitposts....

Really though, objectively ranking players is hard af and there's bound to be a lot of disagreement. Besides the obvious Hush/Bunny in last and Stats/Inno in first everyone else is more or less in flux right now.

I'm just hyped for some sick matches.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 17:46:30
April 05 2017 17:44 GMT
#17
^ I could not have timed this post better...

On April 06 2017 01:36 Makro wrote:
some ammunition for shitposters, great

We bring our own.

We'll see if Innovation can perform. Interesting you gave him #2.
kiss kiss fall in love
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 17:49:24
April 05 2017 17:46 GMT
#18
TY only at #6??
TY should be top 3 and Dear behind Solar/Byul/Ryung.
Otherwise the ranking looks solid.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 17:47:17
April 05 2017 17:46 GMT
#19
On April 06 2017 01:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Dear is way too high, as if he was put there just to troll posters.

In this same thread: Scarlett saying he's too low considering GuMiho's placement.
On April 06 2017 02:46 Charoisaur wrote:
TY only at #6??

Well he did get 2-0'd by Creator the other day...
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13974 Posts
April 05 2017 17:48 GMT
#20
agreed, Maru should be 16, 11 is way too fucking high
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
April 05 2017 17:51 GMT
#21
Oh and how did Byun deserve rank 5?
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
April 05 2017 17:53 GMT
#22
On April 06 2017 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:
Oh and how did Byun deserve rank 5?

Delusional TL writers

He should be first
Community News
TL+ Member
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16838 Posts
April 05 2017 17:54 GMT
#23
Bomber would have been rank 1 ez
The Bomber boy
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
April 05 2017 17:54 GMT
#24
A lot of these matches in the Ro16 could easily have been tournament finals in another year. Looking forward to the actual games. Shame I can't stay up to watch them though.

#noPassionLife
kiss kiss fall in love
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
April 05 2017 17:54 GMT
#25
I actually think Munch is pretty on the mark with this one. Maybe soO too high, I don't know where his mental game is at after another GSL
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
AlexGPunkt
Profile Joined January 2016
Germany258 Posts
April 05 2017 17:54 GMT
#26
I´m totally hyped for this tournament!
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
April 05 2017 17:56 GMT
#27
On April 06 2017 02:54 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I actually think Munch is pretty on the mark with this one. Maybe soO too high, I don't know where his mental game is at after another GSL

If I had to guess, not a great place. Probably contemplating retirement again.
kiss kiss fall in love
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
April 05 2017 17:58 GMT
#28
On April 06 2017 02:56 intotheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 02:54 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I actually think Munch is pretty on the mark with this one. Maybe soO too high, I don't know where his mental game is at after another GSL

If I had to guess, not a great place. Probably contemplating retirement again.

Contemplating asking aLive for the secrets of invisibility
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
April 05 2017 17:59 GMT
#29
On April 06 2017 02:58 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 02:56 intotheheart wrote:
On April 06 2017 02:54 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I actually think Munch is pretty on the mark with this one. Maybe soO too high, I don't know where his mental game is at after another GSL

If I had to guess, not a great place. Probably contemplating retirement again.

Contemplating asking aLive for the secrets of invisibility
https://twitter.com/Sc2sOO/status/846058827661398018

I like how he didn't actually tweet at aLive though.

Further demonstration of aLive not existing.
kiss kiss fall in love
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
April 05 2017 18:01 GMT
#30
On April 06 2017 02:59 intotheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 02:58 Elentos wrote:
On April 06 2017 02:56 intotheheart wrote:
On April 06 2017 02:54 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I actually think Munch is pretty on the mark with this one. Maybe soO too high, I don't know where his mental game is at after another GSL

If I had to guess, not a great place. Probably contemplating retirement again.

Contemplating asking aLive for the secrets of invisibility
https://twitter.com/Sc2sOO/status/846058827661398018

I like how he didn't actually tweet at aLive though.

Further demonstration of aLive not existing.

If you think about it, mYi made the sickest pick-up with aLive. Everyone supports them now because they signed a good Korean player, but they don't have to pay any salary because aLive doesn't actually exist
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
April 05 2017 18:04 GMT
#31
The ROI must be pretty crazy for a pickup like that.
kiss kiss fall in love
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
April 05 2017 18:20 GMT
#32
On April 06 2017 02:56 intotheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 02:54 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I actually think Munch is pretty on the mark with this one. Maybe soO too high, I don't know where his mental game is at after another GSL

If I had to guess, not a great place. Probably contemplating retirement again.

But there's so many tournaments out there to get 2nd in! I hope he reconsiders
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
April 05 2017 18:28 GMT
#33
And 2nd place still makes a decent amount of money. Hm...
kiss kiss fall in love
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9390 Posts
April 05 2017 18:32 GMT
#34
As I understand, power ranks place more emphasis on recent form (another reason why I don't see how in the world Dear is where he is..)


I think the guy who makes the list just watched a few random games here and there and doesn't look at all results. Hence there is little consistency in the rankings.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
April 05 2017 18:50 GMT
#35
ByuN does nothing since last year - gets 5th
Maru loses to Inno and Stats - gets 11th

huh
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
nick00bot
Profile Joined November 2010
326 Posts
April 05 2017 18:51 GMT
#36
To me the weirdest pair of rankings are Ryung at 14 and Dear at 10.

Every time I see TL staff talk about Ryung, its nothing but negativity. Two Ro4 finishes in the last year is amazing, and its weird that this article says he had a relatively easy path, when they rank all the supposedly "easy" people higher on the list.
Even in his losses, like the 0-3 against innovation, he was STILL looking super solid. He just has a playstyle that I think doesnt match up that well against Innos, so despite all the games being pretty close, Ryung was never able to take him down.

I'd honestly switch ryung and dear, but other wise the list isnt too far off what I think
SoO~Speed~Serral~$o$~Dark~Myungsik~TY~Byun~Classic
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 05 2017 19:07 GMT
#37
Byun should be 17
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
April 05 2017 19:22 GMT
#38
These days power ranks are fairly hard to make tbh, what do you consider? Like there are online tournaments every week but the participation is fairly inconsistent in general. There is no weekly proleague anymore, etc

I don't think the list is too bad, at a certain rank it just is fairly hard to be sure about anything. I think the best way to make a PR would be to have a point system you simply have to apply for the recent tournaments though, that way it's at leat 100% consistent
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
April 05 2017 19:42 GMT
#39
What has Dear done in recent months except lose a lot of PvPs. Should without a doubt be in the bottom 3.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
April 05 2017 19:48 GMT
#40
On April 06 2017 03:51 nick00bot wrote:
To me the weirdest pair of rankings are Ryung at 14 and Dear at 10.

Every time I see TL staff talk about Ryung, its nothing but negativity. Two Ro4 finishes in the last year is amazing, and its weird that this article says he had a relatively easy path, when they rank all the supposedly "easy" people higher on the list.
Even in his losses, like the 0-3 against innovation, he was STILL looking super solid. He just has a playstyle that I think doesnt match up that well against Innos, so despite all the games being pretty close, Ryung was never able to take him down.

I'd honestly switch ryung and dear, but other wise the list isnt too far off what I think

Small correction: Ryung doesn't have two Ro4 finishes, last year he lost in the ro8 against Byun.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
April 05 2017 19:51 GMT
#41
On April 06 2017 04:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
What has Dear done in recent months except lose a lot of PvPs. Should without a doubt be in the bottom 3.

He's beaten aLive, GuMiho, ByuN, ByuL and soO in the last month. Outside of PvP, he's actually a threat.

Unless he goes full Dear.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 05 2017 20:01 GMT
#42
On April 06 2017 04:51 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 04:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
What has Dear done in recent months except lose a lot of PvPs. Should without a doubt be in the bottom 3.

He's beaten aLive, GuMiho, ByuN, ByuL and soO in the last month. Outside of PvP, he's actually a threat.

Unless he goes full Dear.

so basically he's not a threat
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
April 05 2017 20:03 GMT
#43
On April 06 2017 02:13 Lorning wrote:
Joke list

ByuN should be #1, Maru #2


Could have been but Gerrard threw them out.
Moderator
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 20:06:55
April 05 2017 20:04 GMT
#44
On April 06 2017 05:01 Shellshock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 04:51 Elentos wrote:
On April 06 2017 04:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
What has Dear done in recent months except lose a lot of PvPs. Should without a doubt be in the bottom 3.

He's beaten aLive, GuMiho, ByuN, ByuL and soO in the last month. Outside of PvP, he's actually a threat.

Unless he goes full Dear.

so basically he's not a threat


Pretty much...

Top 10 power rank stats yo...

Low sampling and sub 50% in games and matches xD
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 20:33:03
April 05 2017 20:16 GMT
#45
On April 06 2017 05:04 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 05:01 Shellshock wrote:
On April 06 2017 04:51 Elentos wrote:
On April 06 2017 04:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
What has Dear done in recent months except lose a lot of PvPs. Should without a doubt be in the bottom 3.

He's beaten aLive, GuMiho, ByuN, ByuL and soO in the last month. Outside of PvP, he's actually a threat.

Unless he goes full Dear.

so basically he's not a threat


Pretty much...

Top 10 power rank stats yo...

Low sampling and sub 50% in games and matches xD

They wouldn't need to make an article if they were just gonna throw the players at you in order of their Aligulac winrates for 2017. Anyone can look that up for themselves.

For the record, that would be:

1 - Inno
2 - ByuN
3 - Maru
4 - herO
5 - Solar
6 - GuMiho
7 - TY
8 - Stats
9 - aLive
10 - Dark
11 - ByuL
12 - Hush
13 - Bunny
14 - soO
15 - Ryung
16 - Dear

I'm sure you'd find nearly everything about that list wrong.

Point being, PRs are opinion pieces in the end so they don't have to align with statistics. And in this case the writer seems to be of the opinion that beating 5 of the players ranked ahead of Dear in the last month is enough to put Dear at 10 despite all his PvP losses.

Although I wish the PRs were longer so there'd be more text invested into justifying every position. The texts range from 5 (Maru) to 22 (Stats) lines and the lower end seems really low.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
April 05 2017 20:40 GMT
#46
On April 06 2017 05:16 Elentos wrote:
Although I wish the PRs were longer so there'd be more text invested into justifying every position. The texts range from 5 (Maru) to 22 (Stats) lines and the lower end seems really low.


Not enough time, maybe for the next set after exams
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
April 05 2017 21:21 GMT
#47
Not enough time, maybe for the next set after exams

Empathy. IRL always takes priority.

As an idea, I remember when stuchiu wrote his "Greatest Players" list he put a short explanation at the end of each player bio on why Player X was ahead of Player X+1.

I.e. "Stats is ahead of Inno because he won GSL Season 1, a stronger result than anything Inno has done recently."
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9390 Posts
April 05 2017 22:04 GMT
#48
On April 06 2017 04:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:
These days power ranks are fairly hard to make tbh, what do you consider? Like there are online tournaments every week but the participation is fairly inconsistent in general. There is no weekly proleague anymore, etc

I don't think the list is too bad, at a certain rank it just is fairly hard to be sure about anything. I think the best way to make a PR would be to have a point system you simply have to apply for the recent tournaments though, that way it's at leat 100% consistent


Nah, use Aligulac as baseline. And whenever you want to deviate from their rankings, you make sure you have very convincing arguments.

The problem is whenever you don't actually look at all of their results but just cherry pick. That's a consistent problem with most of TLs power ranks.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
April 05 2017 22:32 GMT
#49
At that point they could link aligulac though, no? I am fine with having the PR be an opinion piece which is obviously based on stats but can weigh them somewhat subjectively (like putting more emphasis on recent offline events than online ones, etc)

At the end of the day this is just a nice little list done by a writer who had the passion to do it in the first place and not something which is used to place odds, etc.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
starkiller123
Profile Joined January 2016
United States4030 Posts
April 05 2017 22:39 GMT
#50
Even when I really disagree with these articles I still really enjoy reading them
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 23:01:22
April 05 2017 22:57 GMT
#51
On April 06 2017 05:16 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 05:04 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On April 06 2017 05:01 Shellshock wrote:
On April 06 2017 04:51 Elentos wrote:
On April 06 2017 04:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
What has Dear done in recent months except lose a lot of PvPs. Should without a doubt be in the bottom 3.

He's beaten aLive, GuMiho, ByuN, ByuL and soO in the last month. Outside of PvP, he's actually a threat.

Unless he goes full Dear.

so basically he's not a threat


Pretty much...

Top 10 power rank stats yo...

Low sampling and sub 50% in games and matches xD


They wouldn't need to make an article if they were just gonna throw the players at you in order of their Aligulac winrates for 2017. Anyone can look that up for themselves.



It isn't just in order of the winrates on Aligulac. I just used that as a starting point as I feel those poor stats alone could keep Dear from being ranked as highly as he is. Going more in depth, there's also:

- Sample size (pretty low compared to others on the list)

- Level of competition (Decent enough)

- Offline results should carry more weight (of which Dear has played very very few of this year)

- Results with respect to balance (Dear has done fairly good in PvT)

- Consistency (of which he hasn't demonstrated this year)

- Peak performances (nothing extraordinary so far this year..)

all in all, I can't see Dear beating anyone except Hush and Bunny here in ranking. So he beat a few people ranked ahead of him. You can say the same of Solar and ByuL who also blow him out of the water on pretty much every other front.

On April 06 2017 07:39 starkiller123 wrote:
Even when I really disagree with these articles I still really enjoy reading them


and that's the take-home message. Thanks Munch :3
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
usopsama
Profile Joined April 2008
6502 Posts
April 05 2017 23:10 GMT
#52
The list looks fine, except for #5, #7, #9 and #14. They should not be on the list.
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
April 05 2017 23:10 GMT
#53
On April 06 2017 07:04 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 04:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:
These days power ranks are fairly hard to make tbh, what do you consider? Like there are online tournaments every week but the participation is fairly inconsistent in general. There is no weekly proleague anymore, etc

I don't think the list is too bad, at a certain rank it just is fairly hard to be sure about anything. I think the best way to make a PR would be to have a point system you simply have to apply for the recent tournaments though, that way it's at leat 100% consistent


Nah, use Aligulac as baseline. And whenever you want to deviate from their rankings, you make sure you have very convincing arguments.

The problem is whenever you don't actually look at all of their results but just cherry pick. That's a consistent problem with most of TLs power ranks.


Statistics are meaningless without context.

TY went 20-14 at IEM Katowice @ 59% map winrate
INnoVation went 13-7 @ 65%
Stats went 25-12 @ 68%
GuMiho went 17-9 @ 65%
Ryung went 14-7 @ 67%
aLive went 15-7 @ 68%

Who had the best tournament?

You can say "Filter by KR only"; but then are you saying that Hush is better than ShoWTimE? That Impact is better than Nerchio? That some random online game played at 3AM KST is equally important as a GSL match?

All arguments are biased and cherry picked; just realise that and move on

WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
ClaudeSc2
Profile Joined May 2014
United States73 Posts
April 05 2017 23:14 GMT
#54
Maru's resume for 2017, 2nd place in a tournament with only 2 Koreans...
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
April 05 2017 23:52 GMT
#55
Yo munch, haters gonna hate hate hate. i enjoyed the read.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9390 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-06 00:45:19
April 06 2017 00:36 GMT
#56
On April 06 2017 07:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:
At that point they could link aligulac though, no? I am fine with having the PR be an opinion piece which is obviously based on stats but can weigh them somewhat subjectively (like putting more emphasis on recent offline events than online ones, etc)

At the end of the day this is just a nice little list done by a writer who had the passion to do it in the first place and not something which is used to place odds, etc.


Yes, but you still need to be aware of the data. If you only are aware of like 20% of all games played by the players, you end up with these flawed ratings.

What you should do is to understand what the "numbers say", and if you think the numbers are misleading, present your case.

However, if you only look at 20% of the data, Aligulac is always gonna outperform.

So to sum up, use Aligulac (or another "data-based method") and then add subjective analysis on top of that.

Statistics are meaningless without context.

TY went 20-14 at IEM Katowice @ 59% map winrate
INnoVation went 13-7 @ 65%
Stats went 25-12 @ 68%
GuMiho went 17-9 @ 65%
Ryung went 14-7 @ 67%
aLive went 15-7 @ 68%

Who had the best tournament?


What's your point? Aligulac takes into account the relevant context, as in the skill level of opponent.

And if you think Aligulac is missing important factors, then present your case.

Also, statistical analysis is always just a matter of how good it is. If it's good enough it always beat subjective analysis (not saying Aligulac does that though).

You can say "Filter by KR only"; but then are you saying that Hush is better than ShoWTimE? That Impact is better than Nerchio? That some random online game played at 3AM KST is equally important as a GSL match?


That's what a data-based analysis takes into account. You look at all relevant data as in, skill level of opponent and importance of match.

It's quite naive if you just think numbers = win/rate.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 06 2017 00:51 GMT
#57
#BringBackTLPD
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
April 06 2017 02:44 GMT
#58
If soO wins this does that count as a GSL victory?
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
April 06 2017 03:44 GMT
#59
On April 06 2017 11:44 Pandain wrote:
If soO wins this does that count as a GSL victory?


No. But if he loses this in the finals I'm willing to consider it a GSL second place.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
April 06 2017 04:17 GMT
#60
On April 06 2017 12:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 11:44 Pandain wrote:
If soO wins this does that count as a GSL victory?


No. But if he loses this in the finals I'm willing to consider it a GSL second place.


Seems fair
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4163 Posts
April 06 2017 05:21 GMT
#61
On April 06 2017 11:44 Pandain wrote:
If soO wins this does that count as a GSL victory?

Absolutely, it says GSL in the title!
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
April 06 2017 06:28 GMT
#62
aligulac PR best PR. Nerchio #3 and Showtime #6 above Stats. Seems good man.
kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary483 Posts
April 06 2017 06:56 GMT
#63
On April 06 2017 11:44 Pandain wrote:
If soO wins this does that count as a GSL victory?


Even if alive beats Innovation theres TY,Stats,Byun,Dark at the upper bracket. Plus he would need to go trough Maru/Dear etc first and thats also a big if. His chance to win this cup is very very slim. If Inno loses to alive, then maybe but just maybe he has a chance to go the finals but i don't see him winning there again.
Why so serious?
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13974 Posts
April 06 2017 14:33 GMT
#64
On April 06 2017 14:21 lestye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2017 11:44 Pandain wrote:
If soO wins this does that count as a GSL victory?

Absolutely, it says GSL in the title!

If soO wins, that's all the proof we need that this isn't a GSL
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
April 06 2017 14:54 GMT
#65
On April 06 2017 15:28 Phredxor wrote:
aligulac PR best PR. Nerchio #3 and Showtime #6 above Stats. Seems good man.

well now we know that Stats sucks after all so maybe Aligulac was right?
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
MoonyD
Profile Joined December 2013
Australia191 Posts
April 06 2017 21:40 GMT
#66
I think it should be official by now that Inno has taken over Bomber's mantle of being Bomber. He's amazing when you expect him to fail and bombs out when you expect him to win.
The world wants to be deceived
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
April 06 2017 21:44 GMT
#67
On April 07 2017 06:40 MoonyD wrote:
I think it should be official by now that Inno has taken over Bomber's mantle of being Bomber. He's amazing when you expect him to fail and bombs out when you expect him to win.

Nah I never "expect" him to fail.
But he surely disappoints a lot after hyping everyone up.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
April 06 2017 21:52 GMT
#68
On April 07 2017 06:40 MoonyD wrote:
I think it should be official by now that Inno has taken over Bomber's mantle of being Bomber. He's amazing when you expect him to fail and bombs out when you expect him to win.


He plays tomorrow....?
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
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