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Hi guys, it's about time the community has a discussion about this and gets a dialogue going with Blizzard about it as well.
For one reason or another it became taboo to talk about hackers or even fathom that they exist still on StarCraft 2. This needs to change.
People may have most recently seen the drama with me playing versus Nero/Retribution/Spectrum + whatever other aliases he goes by in WCS, and how i ended up getting banned and not allowed another chance at the same qualifier, despite me being the one that is screwed over by the maphacker.
This needs to change. It's unacceptable that players or personalities in this community can point out cheaters/hackers and then be demonized or called toxic or whatever else. Back in Brood War it was the opposite - people called out hackers all the time and there were even many known Brood War players that people thought would never EVER hack that got caught hacking.
An example of this is Pig during the most recent WCS qualifiers making claims that there are no maphacks, as well as personalities in the scene like Nathanias that keep perpetuating that there are no working maphacks for SC2 which is honestly not the case.
Can we get a dialogue going in the community here and with Blizzard that doesn't end up with "fuck avilo" essentially? Honestly keeping the integrity of SC2 tourneys and ladder is pretty important for the game to stay alive and grow more.
Here is a game that i just played today demonstrating how prevalent this is on ladder right now:
The person in the clip above is 100% utilizing a production tab hack + maphack to do what he did in the clip.
Is this going to be addressed by Blizzard at all? Are we all going to pretend it's not going on for even longer? Does it take the Korean SC2 community pro players complaining about it again for anything to be done about it? (is there even enough of a korean progaming team/scene/ladder scene left TO complain about it)?
The last time hacks became prevalent in SC2 was during HOTS, in which the same thing happened - people continuously denied it, and if you showed someone 100% proof they'd say you are making excuses. It wasn't until the korean ladder became infested with these cheaters that blizzard decided they needed to more proactively do something.
As a community there needs to be a discussion about this. No more pretending it's not going on, and that it's become more prevalent.
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Agreed, but I thought there was no real world solution.
Only way to beat a maphacker is to crush them with mechanics/macro
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Whether there are or are not map hacks currently being used I don't know, I'm not of a high enough skill level to know for sure (although after watching some recent clips it does seem like they are currently a problem).
However, it seems naive to say that SC2 hacks do not exist and will not exist. Hacks are always changing, just because one doesn't exist today doesn't mean one wont exist tomorrow. How can you say for sure that map hacks don't exist? People aren't going to make the existence of their hacks obvious.
I honestly think to say no hacks exist is just.... silly. No hacks existing to your knowledge is not the same as non existing at all.
(I don't mean this in a criticising way at all, but I do think something should be done about it... The scene is already the weakest it's been in years :'( )
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This along with Ketroc's post I think are concern enough for Blizzard to take this seriously. Now, that being said, perhaps Avilo's opponent knows the timings of vikings very well; or, he is map-hacking for sure. I'm gonna go with the latter, as I do not know of any person that counts the timings of units that well, let alone knows the units being produced. Who's to say Avilo wasn't trying to build liberators? As far-fetched as it sounds for liberators, still, this is more evidence of map-hacks back in the game. Blizzard, you need to address this swiftly. I'll be damned if I or anyone has to play ladder for months before something is done about it.
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TL:DR: "I didn't get enough attention and sympathy cash from the whole DQ ruling, let's cry wolf about maphackers some more"
To be clear here, do maphacks exist? Yes
Do they exist on the scale the original poster is talking about? Hell no.
Ignore him and maybe he'll go away.
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You can't do the timing precisely the first round because you do not know when it the starport went down, nor do you know what was produced originally. So then, lets say sure he got lucky the first round, NO ONE times it perfectly 2 times in a row the way StimPacker did it. Then again, what do I know? This was pretty obvious in my opinion, but I am no expert.
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but I thought all of your opponents are map hackers/stream snipers or xmen ?
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Now I will say that hacks certainly do exist but I would consider them a rarity more so than a problem.
You cry wolf to the extend where its silly and this clip is nothing more than that.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On April 04 2017 17:13 showstealer1829 wrote:
TL:DR: "I didn't get enough attention and sympathy cash from the whole DQ ruling, let's cry wolf about maphackers some more"
To be clear here, do maphacks exist? Yes
Do they exist on the scale the original poster is talking about? Hell no.
Ignore him and maybe he'll go away.
I missed a drama! Can I have details, please?
___
Honestly, now it's too late to try to solve the issue of maphackers no matter how many of them are there or how often they play against Avilo.
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Yes we can talk about it...
1) I am convinced there are hacks for the present iteration of SC2.
2) My estimation (by time spent on the ladder) is that the percentage of players hacking in the US region is no larger than 1% of the total players in the region. I lived in Korea for most of HoTS and I estimate the percentage hacking there was 0.1 %. EU I have no idea...
3) The example you show could be coincidence, it could be hacks - this is not conclusive evidence.
WHICH leads to...
4) Avilo here is what the community, the casters, players, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general, need from you to ever truly acknowledge and/or trust a single word you post or say:
A) "I avilo, have accused incorrectly too many players of hacking."
B) "I avilo, have too often in the past refused to own up to my own mistakes and failures."
C) "I avilo, have never been able to compete at the highest levels in SC2 and am predictable in my playstyle. " (This is important as 1 - the vast majority of players you have accused of hacking in the past, KNOW HOW YOU PLAY. 2 - Your lack of humility in stating your arguments is detrimental to the credibility of your stance).
D) "I avilo, have been disrespectful towards others players and dismissed their skills at the game too often."
E) "I avilo, will in the future try to be more honest and respectful. I will aim to conduct myself in a more adult manner with the community, the casters, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general."
F) "I avilo, will stop crying wolf."
G) "I avilo am not special and thus am subject to the same rules and guidelines as participants in any given tournament."
Until you testify to this or something like it, no one of any rational/impartial standing will ever take you seriously. It is sad to see you throw away what potential you might have because you cannot (have not so far) owned up to this.
I am sorry, this is just the truth.
Good luck and Have Fun.
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Oh wow I guessed the author of this topic even before opening it. I must be using telepathy hacks.
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I´m quite new to the scene and do not know anything about coding or stuff like that. Its pretty clear to me that hacking might be possible, considering the possibillities computers offer these days.
I dont like Avilo for obvious reasons (toxic, bla bla bla).
That said, the thread of Ketroc shows more evidence then the clip from OP in this thread that hacking exists.
Also, people demanded a more elaborated and thought through approach by Avilo. In my opinion, Avilo tried this with this thread.
Taking into account that Avilo is a likely target because of his attitude, reaction and manner, I have the feeling that it is understandable that he has a special interest to solve the issue.
All emotions aside, talking about hacking and how to prevent it, seems a good idea to me.
An official statement of Blizzard if they work on that issue and which priority it has to them would be very welcome.
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First of all, most of the community will always dismiss any hacking complaining, because hackers accounts usualy reach masters level, where a very small percentage of people will face them and know they are common, so the rest will always say hacks don't matter.
Second, Blizzard never fixed hacking in SC2 and will never fix hacking in SC2, and don't be surprised if they ruin BW Remaster anti hacking engines.
Third, Avilo complaining about something will just make people instantly dismiss the problem, because Avilo is Avilo. Something to keep in mind. So it would be better if someone else oppened this thread.
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On April 04 2017 21:45 xTJx wrote:
Second, Blizzard never fixed hacking in SC2 and will never fix hacking in SC2, and don't be surprised if they ruin BW Remaster anti hacking engines..
The official battle.net servers have had non-existent anti cheat for years lol they're actually improving that with the re-release
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On April 04 2017 14:48 avilo wrote:Hi guys, it's about time the community has a discussion about this and gets a dialogue going with Blizzard about it as well. For one reason or another it became taboo to talk about hackers or even fathom that they exist still on StarCraft 2. This needs to change. People may have most recently seen the drama with me playing versus Nero/Retribution/Spectrum + whatever other aliases he goes by in WCS, and how i ended up getting banned and not allowed another chance at the same qualifier, despite me being the one that is screwed over by the maphacker. This needs to change. It's unacceptable that players or personalities in this community can point out cheaters/hackers and then be demonized or called toxic or whatever else. Back in Brood War it was the opposite - people called out hackers all the time and there were even many known Brood War players that people thought would never EVER hack that got caught hacking. An example of this is Pig during the most recent WCS qualifiers making claims that there are no maphacks, as well as personalities in the scene like Nathanias that keep perpetuating that there are no working maphacks for SC2 which is honestly not the case. Can we get a dialogue going in the community here and with Blizzard that doesn't end up with "fuck avilo" essentially? Honestly keeping the integrity of SC2 tourneys and ladder is pretty important for the game to stay alive and grow more. Here is a game that i just played today demonstrating how prevalent this is on ladder right now: https://clips.twitch.tv/FlaccidScaryIcecreamChefFrankThe person in the clip above is 100% utilizing a production tab hack + maphack to do what he did in the clip.Is this going to be addressed by Blizzard at all? Are we all going to pretend it's not going on for even longer? Does it take the Korean SC2 community pro players complaining about it again for anything to be done about it? (is there even enough of a korean progaming team/scene/ladder scene left TO complain about it)? The last time hacks became prevalent in SC2 was during HOTS, in which the same thing happened - people continuously denied it, and if you showed someone 100% proof they'd say you are making excuses. It wasn't until the korean ladder became infested with these cheaters that blizzard decided they needed to more proactively do something. As a community there needs to be a discussion about this. No more pretending it's not going on, and that it's become more prevalent.
Clearly you are not reading my posts in reply to your idiocy, and moreover, it's amazing that you have the audacity to continually post your denial on TL. As I have mentioned previously, there are no working production tab hacks that are similar to the ones previously known to us (the ones we think of with UI etc). This sort of misinformation and crying is pathetic and makes you look like a complete (enter 4 letter derogatory word here). For that reason, I have reported your post.
Seriously dude, grow up. This is why nobody likes you; and moreover, why you're banned from WCS. You should be incredibly thankful you're still on TL's featured list even thought you're banned from the competitive circuit (which I find interesting?).
Simply read my previous posts to you on this topic, the pathetic video of you vs Jason, or just about anything else about you on this topic and you'll understand everyone's point of view... or at least you should.
Seriously speaking on the topic you've brought up, I do know that many pros are always looking over replays when they practice. If you think they've never had a thought in the back of their mind that some1 may be map hacking you'd be silly. This is what they're looking for a lot of the times in addition to what went wrong on their end and how to improve. The thing is, almost all of them simply don't find evidence and thus don't make flamboyant claims... They're open to the info, as Snute was. But unless it can be proven... don't be silly -_-
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Coming from someone who accused Pilipili of being an hacker because he scouted a common proxy location.
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@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack?
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It's a problem and has to be adressed, but you can be sure Blizz is working on it. They've always been secretive about anti hacking measures.
At least we had way less of this since LotV. None at all for quite some time even.
Btw that player might've been hacking, but in the clip you posted, there is no evidence at all. The build time of Vikings is not exactly a secret.
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On April 04 2017 22:06 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack?
I've sent this to multiple people in PM's but ... -_-;;
How about...
Checking the hacking websites........??
![[image loading]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LLpIMRowndg/maxresdefault.jpg)
edit: also the report link for the OP is broken; unless it just bugged out after I sent the pastebin. If any mod wants the info feel free to msg me, tho i've sent some of it to lichter already (no clue if he checked it)
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The person starting this thread doesn't matter, only the topic.
Do hacks exist? Yes, it comes with the nature of a competitive game like SC2.
Do hacks ruin the gameplay of a considerable part of the playerbase? I don't know any statistics but I think the answer is no. There are more important things to improve in SC2 in my opinion.
Now some more interesting questions:
Can hacks ever be stopped? No, not at all. This is like the fight of virus and antivirus systems. Or like illegal downloading. This is another reason why developers shouldn't put too much effort in it.
Do we have to stop hacks at all? Probably not. Firstly, hacks in SC2 are only "light" hacks. Which means that you can "play around" maphacks by better macro and mechanics. Additionally some players (TY for example) know the game so well that it feels like a maphack. Sometimes he moves out to a random location on the map, snipes a drop and pulls back.
So my point is that it's possible to play on such a high level that production or map hacks are almost irrelevant.
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EPT
