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GSL to host tournament showcasing new balance - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
841 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 43 Next All
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
November 01 2016 18:15 GMT
#121
Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
November 01 2016 18:20 GMT
#122
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote:
Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?


Sadly i doubt that'd stop them.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
November 01 2016 18:23 GMT
#123
On November 02 2016 03:20 Phredxor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote:
Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?


Sadly i doubt that'd stop them.

Yeah first they'd have to read that part before posting.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
DekkuM
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States149 Posts
November 01 2016 18:24 GMT
#124
Looks like they're balance testing Protoss v Protoss. Or maybe they'll offrace.
MUD: staticchaos.mudhosting.net:1982
LuckyGnomTV
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Russian Federation367 Posts
November 01 2016 19:05 GMT
#125
Cmon guys, it's a fckin showmatch league.. get your shit together and invite same number of players of each race.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
November 01 2016 20:58 GMT
#126
On October 31 2016 21:53 Jer99 wrote:
We should run our own tournament with our own balance patch


Do you remember the pm you sent me during the Lotv beta?

But yeah it is about time for the community to take over balancing and if TL leads the way, I guarantee the community will follow.
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8157 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-01 21:20:16
November 01 2016 21:19 GMT
#127
On November 02 2016 05:58 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2016 21:53 Jer99 wrote:
We should run our own tournament with our own balance patch


Do you remember the pm you sent me during the Lotv beta?

But yeah it is about time for the community to take over balancing and if TL leads the way, I guarantee the community will follow.


i do not remember what was it about?

checked my inbox and i don't have any sent/received to you, and i typically don't delete any PMs
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-01 21:38:08
November 01 2016 21:37 GMT
#128
On November 02 2016 03:23 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2016 03:20 Phredxor wrote:
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote:
Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?


Sadly i doubt that'd stop them.

Yeah first they'd have to read that part before posting.


i thought about it but didn't write it :p

And seeing the posts just bellow yours... well...
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
November 01 2016 23:49 GMT
#129
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote:
Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?

This doesn't really change anything. If they can't seem to schedule the tournament to accommodate a diverse group of players, they should just cancel it and make other plans where they could get a diverse group of players.
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
November 02 2016 00:35 GMT
#130
I’d be thankful if when people think of StarCraft, they remembered that there was once a player called Jaedong.


This is a incredibly strong quote, I'm sure JD has spent a great deal of time thinking of his legacy and how does it fit on the greater scale of human history.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
November 02 2016 00:49 GMT
#131
having another event is great.

probably wont watch much of it since its so P heavy. However its great to see there are forces at work in Korea trying to keep the game alive.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-02 06:03:54
November 02 2016 04:18 GMT
#132
On November 02 2016 06:19 Jer99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2016 05:58 BronzeKnee wrote:
On October 31 2016 21:53 Jer99 wrote:
We should run our own tournament with our own balance patch


Do you remember the pm you sent me during the Lotv beta?

But yeah it is about time for the community to take over balancing and if TL leads the way, I guarantee the community will follow.


i do not remember what was it about?

checked my inbox and i don't have any sent/received to you, and i typically don't delete any PMs


Sorry it was Zeromus and not you who pmed me. I am often confused, this time apparently because you both are on the TL strategy team I guess.

But anyway, I've been saying the community should rally around a single balance mod and just move on from Blizzard since the beginning of the LOTV Beta when Blizzard was busy adjusting the Lurker range while completely dismissing double harvesting...

And now that Starleague is dead, it is really the perfect time. We really can't bleed out much more before we go into a complete death spiral. If TL led the charge, then the community would follow. Don't forget that Counterstrike and the MOBA genre were originally community ideas, and created by members of the community. We deserve better than what Blizzard's design team is coming up with.

Starcraft deserves better.
Jett.Jack.Alvir
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada2250 Posts
November 02 2016 04:56 GMT
#133
Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.

I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.

CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.

It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-02 06:13:57
November 02 2016 06:01 GMT
#134
On November 02 2016 13:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.

I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.

CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.

It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.


Yeah, my guess is you would have said the same thing when LOTV came out. And now Proleague is dead. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, but that is exactly what you are suggesting we do. And I disagree with your assessment of CS and DOTA, it never took anyone but Gooseman, Cliffe and Icefrog respectively before they became great.

"There are two primary choices in life: to accept conditions as they exist, or accept the responsibility for changing them." - Denis Waitley

It is time to accept responsibility. I am a custom map maker for WC3, and I'd be happy to help do some of the technical work for SC2. Sadly, I don't have the clout to lead this endeavor.

But TL does. And we have literally nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
gingerfluffmuff
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria4570 Posts
November 02 2016 07:41 GMT
#135
Gonna be interesting, G to the S to the L!
・゚✧:・゚+..。✧・゚:・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚ ゜・:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING *・゜・:・゚✧:・゚✧。゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:・゜・:・゚✧::・・:・゚・゚
Raineeb
Profile Joined September 2016
Philippines39 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-02 07:53:46
November 02 2016 07:53 GMT
#136
This is good news! I want to see some form of Toss builds with this new and upcoming SC2 update. It sure would be better though if there are more Ts and Zs.
My Life for Aiur! But Freedom is priceless also :) [ Neeb | Stats | Rain | sOs | ByuN | Maru | MCanning | Winter | Lowko | PiG ]
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
November 02 2016 08:01 GMT
#137
On November 02 2016 15:01 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2016 13:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.

I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.

CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.

It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.


Yeah, my guess is you would have said the same thing when LOTV came out. And now Proleague is dead. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, but that is exactly what you are suggesting we do. And I disagree with your assessment of CS and DOTA, it never took anyone but Gooseman, Cliffe and Icefrog respectively before they became great.

"There are two primary choices in life: to accept conditions as they exist, or accept the responsibility for changing them." - Denis Waitley

It is time to accept responsibility. I am a custom map maker for WC3, and I'd be happy to help do some of the technical work for SC2. Sadly, I don't have the clout to lead this endeavor.

But TL does. And we have literally nothing to lose, and everything to gain.


Well, Starbow was a huge effort in this direction, people sunk apparently thousands of man-hours into development and it still hasn't taken off hugely. I think that the problem is essentially that if the people on TL who want to change the game the most start working on it, the result will be pretty much BW 2.0 and that already has a pretty good competitor in actual BW. And then you have to understand that while BW does have a following, it's not really a lot of people and the potential to grow isn't big. This kinda runs in circles for years.

The essentially problem is that the thing that SC2 did well in order to gain new players are mostly exactly those you would like to undo. Where will you get the players then?
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
November 02 2016 08:19 GMT
#138
On November 02 2016 08:49 TheWinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote:
Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?

This doesn't really change anything. If they can't seem to schedule the tournament to accommodate a diverse group of players, they should just cancel it and make other plans where they could get a diverse group of players.


You really think a tournament planned like this one can be postponed ? They rented the studio, created and niomt a trophee. Have investor and sponsor money already etc... You just can't postpone everything.
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
November 02 2016 13:51 GMT
#139
On November 02 2016 17:01 opisska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2016 15:01 BronzeKnee wrote:
On November 02 2016 13:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.

I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.

CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.

It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.


Yeah, my guess is you would have said the same thing when LOTV came out. And now Proleague is dead. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, but that is exactly what you are suggesting we do. And I disagree with your assessment of CS and DOTA, it never took anyone but Gooseman, Cliffe and Icefrog respectively before they became great.

"There are two primary choices in life: to accept conditions as they exist, or accept the responsibility for changing them." - Denis Waitley

It is time to accept responsibility. I am a custom map maker for WC3, and I'd be happy to help do some of the technical work for SC2. Sadly, I don't have the clout to lead this endeavor.

But TL does. And we have literally nothing to lose, and everything to gain.


Well, Starbow was a huge effort in this direction, people sunk apparently thousands of man-hours into development and it still hasn't taken off hugely. I think that the problem is essentially that if the people on TL who want to change the game the most start working on it, the result will be pretty much BW 2.0 and that already has a pretty good competitor in actual BW. And then you have to understand that while BW does have a following, it's not really a lot of people and the potential to grow isn't big. This kinda runs in circles for years.

The essentially problem is that the thing that SC2 did well in order to gain new players are mostly exactly those you would like to undo. Where will you get the players then?

This really doesn't belong here but still:
I disagree with you on this, the main problem is not what the changes would be. Most casual players simply wouldn't give a damn about any of that. Is there high ground advantage? Who cares!
What these mods really lack is all the features and accessibility. If you want to play those you need to do more than simply click "play". You don't have matchmaking and thus you do not win/lose 50% of your games. People state that the arcade system is one of the reasons sc2 never took off, but who really plays arcade maps in the year 2016 when there are tons adn tons of easily accessible games out there with more "polish" ?
This might be ignorant about dota2's arcade scene and if it is tell me, but i actually doubt that it's much different there (ofc the basic playerbase is bigger in that game)
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
November 02 2016 14:02 GMT
#140
On November 02 2016 22:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2016 17:01 opisska wrote:
On November 02 2016 15:01 BronzeKnee wrote:
On November 02 2016 13:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.

I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.

CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.

It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.


Yeah, my guess is you would have said the same thing when LOTV came out. And now Proleague is dead. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, but that is exactly what you are suggesting we do. And I disagree with your assessment of CS and DOTA, it never took anyone but Gooseman, Cliffe and Icefrog respectively before they became great.

"There are two primary choices in life: to accept conditions as they exist, or accept the responsibility for changing them." - Denis Waitley

It is time to accept responsibility. I am a custom map maker for WC3, and I'd be happy to help do some of the technical work for SC2. Sadly, I don't have the clout to lead this endeavor.

But TL does. And we have literally nothing to lose, and everything to gain.


Well, Starbow was a huge effort in this direction, people sunk apparently thousands of man-hours into development and it still hasn't taken off hugely. I think that the problem is essentially that if the people on TL who want to change the game the most start working on it, the result will be pretty much BW 2.0 and that already has a pretty good competitor in actual BW. And then you have to understand that while BW does have a following, it's not really a lot of people and the potential to grow isn't big. This kinda runs in circles for years.

The essentially problem is that the thing that SC2 did well in order to gain new players are mostly exactly those you would like to undo. Where will you get the players then?

This really doesn't belong here but still:
I disagree with you on this, the main problem is not what the changes would be. Most casual players simply wouldn't give a damn about any of that. Is there high ground advantage? Who cares!
What these mods really lack is all the features and accessibility. If you want to play those you need to do more than simply click "play". You don't have matchmaking and thus you do not win/lose 50% of your games. People state that the arcade system is one of the reasons sc2 never took off, but who really plays arcade maps in the year 2016 when there are tons adn tons of easily accessible games out there with more "polish" ?
This might be ignorant about dota2's arcade scene and if it is tell me, but i actually doubt that it's much different there (ofc the basic playerbase is bigger in that game)


Starbow did eventually implement a matchmaking system, no? It is through another piece of software, so it's not as one-click as normal ladder, but it's not really the hassle of normal Arcade either. In any case, the accessibility thing is solvable with enough effort.

You have a key point though - today there is just so much available in terms of games. The whole success of CS/DOTA came in the time when the offer was so much smaller, so even though they were just "custom games" for something else, they drew in so many people who didn't have much else good to play. The landscape now is just so much different.

Additionally, one has to take into account that DOTA was a radically different game than Warcraft, with different objectives and gameplay. Any "modified SC2" will have to deal with the biggest competitor, that is SC2 itself.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
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