A new balance patch that's sure to drastically change the way Legacy of the Void is played will be released soon. The GSL broadcasting team, sponsored by AfreecaTV, has now announced a tournament showcasing these changes.
From November 10 to November 14, 16 competitors will have the chance to show off their skill at adapting to these changes and earn themselves some prize money. The round of 16 and the quarterfinals will be held online, while the semifinals and finals will be held at the FreecUp Studio.
On October 31 2016 19:40 Ej_ wrote: 9 glorious and noble warriors going to storm mineral lines with tempests while David Kim laughs evily in his office in hell
9 glorious and noble warriors and a professional Overwatch player.
This is cool, but hopefully they will push out more changes specifically to Protoss, since this lineup is so Protoss heavy. If it's only DT Blink and 6 Supply Tempests, we will just have a bunch of PvP's that are almost no different from pre patch.
As an aside, by dates, this tournament appears to overlap with the WESG APAC qualifiers, but the exact schedule for that isn't announced yet. If there's conflict there it's possible TY won't participate in this one.
On October 31 2016 19:49 Primelot wrote: So when does the new Major Patch hit accualy?
Who knows? From this it looks like right after Blizzcon.
On October 31 2016 19:50 Elentos wrote: As an aside, by dates, this tournament appears to overlap with the WESG APAC qualifiers, but the exact schedule for that isn't announced yet. If there's conflict there it's possible TY won't participate in this one.
On October 31 2016 19:40 Ej_ wrote: 9 glorious and noble warriors going to storm mineral lines with tempests while David Kim laughs evily in his office in hell
From what I gathered they invited all the players who got top 16 in SSL and GSL to play in this, and it just so happens that all 10 Protoss players accepted to play.
On October 31 2016 21:49 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean i can understand that methodology, but the outcome is still bad :D PvP all day simply makes no sense when you wanna showcase the new patch
The thing is, with that method, they don't have infinite options.
Protoss - all of them accepted
Terran - missing TaeJa (retired), Maru (probably focusing on WESG), ByuN (dunno why he's not involved), Cure (again, not sure why he's not there), Reality (almost certainly retired/retiring) and Bomber (also almost certainly retired)
Zerg - missing Dark and ByuL (no idea about either)
On October 31 2016 21:53 Jer99 wrote: We should run our own tournament with our own balance patch
and our own game made from the MOD Kit. ok, you guys make the game. i'll be in charge of complaining about how i could easily have done a better job.
more seriously, nice to see Blizzard's commitment to a design change in LotV. Blizzard is trying to take a very good game and make it into a great game. its a tough job.
i hope this event provides for some good data at the top level of play.
On October 31 2016 21:49 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean i can understand that methodology, but the outcome is still bad :D PvP all day simply makes no sense when you wanna showcase the new patch
The thing is, with that method, they don't have infinite options.
Protoss - all of them accepted
Terran - missing TaeJa (retired), Maru (probably focusing on WESG), ByuN (dunno why he's not involved), Cure (again, not sure why he's not there), Reality (almost certainly retired/retiring) and Bomber (also almost certainly retired)
Zerg - missing Dark and ByuL (no idea about either)
Sure but if that is the outcome then we need another method :D They really should strife for the best possible racial balance here as biggest priority. Yes Innovation and soO might not be the best players atm (most likely), but i would take them over having only pvp to show any day
When is the patch supposed to hit servers? I didn't read the patch notes and stuff, but on paper, what is the balance supposed to look like after this patch?
look another protoss stacked tournament that nobody will watch, wouldnt b awesome if we had a full protoss playoffs, after 3 years of protoss vs protoss the game is basically empty and some people wonder why nobody watch sc2 anymore
what im asking myself is will WESG be played out on the old patch? Because playing parts of a touney on different patches doesnt make much sense to me.
On October 31 2016 21:30 ZiggyPG wrote: Neeb rekt them so hard @ Kespa Cup poor Koreans need to practice PvP :S
And then Zest beat him when it actually matters. Neeb's reward? Dark.
but did it actually matter more than KeSPA Cup? from what I see they're both in TOP 8 of Blizzcon and Zest got best Korean PvP player Stats against him.
On October 31 2016 21:30 ZiggyPG wrote: Neeb rekt them so hard @ Kespa Cup poor Koreans need to practice PvP :S
And then Zest beat him when it actually matters. Neeb's reward? Dark.
but did it actually matter more than KeSPA Cup? from what I see they're both in TOP 8 of Blizzcon and Zest got best Korean PvP player Stats against him.
I'm not so sure he got the better deal out of it.
Neeb got Dark. That's probably a lot worse than Stats.
With how the balance looks like I wouldn't be surprised to see almost no toss in the later stages of the tournament. Probably better to invite lots of protoss so they have a higher chance of advancing.
Doesn't the new balance patch only include the cyclone and ultralisk changes and not the rest of them? Or are they going to play on the test map? If not inviting a bunch of protosses doesn't sound productive.
On November 01 2016 02:53 petro1987 wrote: Why people are implying that TvP is gonna be so easy for Terrans after the patch? Will mech be actually that good vs Protoss?
I believe the tempest nerf will be the biggest thing in tvp. Also protoss got no buffs in the testmap except slightly faster zealots (DT blink is useless) while the other races got insane buffs like 70 damage tank, 7 range hydras, 40 hp banelings or burrow-fungal (that has still not been removed). I think toss is by far the weakest race in the testmap.
On November 01 2016 02:53 petro1987 wrote: Why people are implying that TvP is gonna be so easy for Terrans after the patch? Will mech be actually that good vs Protoss?
I doubt mech will ever be good against toss. Tempests, disruptors, voidrays, blink, adept, immortals, even carriers (although as I have discovered on ladder widow mines are insanely effective against carriers) counter mech so hard
I'm fairly certain what DK is going for is to have TvZ mostly mech, TvP still bio though with tank support, and TvT can be a mixup. I remember seeing an interview he said he wanted mech viable in at least one matchup.
Edit: I know what afreeca are doing. Have most the players protoss. If the finals isn't PvP, then the game is finally balanced
On November 01 2016 02:53 petro1987 wrote: Why people are implying that TvP is gonna be so easy for Terrans after the patch? Will mech be actually that good vs Protoss?
I believe the tempest nerf will be the biggest thing in tvp. Also protoss got no buffs in the testmap except slightly faster zealots (DT blink is useless) while the other races got insane buffs like 70 damage tank, 7 range hydras, 40 hp banelings or burrow-fungal (that has still not been removed). I think toss is by far the weakest race in the testmap.
They also buffed carriers and void rays.
Besides pretty much all terran changes are for mech wich is already not viable vs protoss, so protoss isnt as weak.
Zerg is pretty insane tho, 7 range hydras are crazy.
On November 01 2016 02:53 petro1987 wrote: Why people are implying that TvP is gonna be so easy for Terrans after the patch? Will mech be actually that good vs Protoss?
I believe the tempest nerf will be the biggest thing in tvp. Also protoss got no buffs in the testmap except slightly faster zealots (DT blink is useless) while the other races got insane buffs like 70 damage tank, 7 range hydras, 40 hp banelings or burrow-fungal (that has still not been removed). I think toss is by far the weakest race in the testmap.
They also buffed carriers and void rays.
Besides pretty much all terran changes are for mech wich is already not viable vs protoss, so protoss isnt as weak.
Zerg is pretty insane tho, 7 range hydras are crazy.
Zerg being the winner as far as the balance changes go has been my experience as well, while the changes aren't nearly as dramatic as the Terran or Protoss ones they are by far the most practical since free extra stats for early-midgame units is much more useful than better late game units. I will say that maybe its time to split the Hydra speed and range upgrades again, Hydras weren't really weak vs Protoss to begin with thanks to the LoTV buffs and Lurkers and the extra range just makes them incredibly powerful.
I think if the change goes through as it is its just gonna turn Protoss into the "turtle until deathball" it was before since you can't really fight without aoe anymore since the Zerg midgame units just got way stronger while Voids and Carriers are not useful at all during that stage.
On November 01 2016 02:53 petro1987 wrote: Why people are implying that TvP is gonna be so easy for Terrans after the patch? Will mech be actually that good vs Protoss?
I believe the tempest nerf will be the biggest thing in tvp. Also protoss got no buffs in the testmap except slightly faster zealots (DT blink is useless) while the other races got insane buffs like 70 damage tank, 7 range hydras, 40 hp banelings or burrow-fungal (that has still not been removed). I think toss is by far the weakest race in the testmap.
They also buffed carriers and void rays.
Besides pretty much all terran changes are for mech wich is already not viable vs protoss, so protoss isnt as weak.
Zerg is pretty insane tho, 7 range hydras are crazy.
Carriers got nerfed at the same time by removing release interceptors; not sure if they are better or worse than before. the voidray buff is pretty small.
also as I said, the biggest thing for tvp is the tempest nerf which might turn tvp lategame from incredibly toss favored to balanced or even terran favored which might change the complete dynamics of the matchups. And Bio is as strong as ever.
So what balance are we looking at specifically? How balanced PvP is? Because I fail to see how having only 2z and 4t compared to 10p will help with "balance." Would be super funny if all the Zerg and T knock each other out by having zvz/zvt in the ro16 and then round of 8 will just be 8 Protoss. PvP will be very balance because Protoss has 50% win rate.
On November 01 2016 09:09 Elentos wrote: I wonder how many complaints about the player pool this would have gotten if I left out the part about the new balance patch.
It would be bad no matter what. It being played on the balance changes makes it even worse though. I mean new content is great, but why is it so hard to do it the right way? It's hard to do it worse
They may as well not hold this tournament with so many protoss. Just arrange show matches with a bunch of non mirrors instead. Mirrors aren't even really important when it comes to balance patches anyway.
It's a waste of time, effort, and money. I don't think many people will watch it either unless most of the non protoss go on a major run.
On November 01 2016 09:09 Elentos wrote: I wonder how many complaints about the player pool this would have gotten if I left out the part about the new balance patch.
It would be bad no matter what. It being played on the balance changes makes it even worse though. I mean new content is great, but why is it so hard to do it the right way? It's hard to do it worse
Hey, maybe they'll do a second one some time with the other half of the Korean pro scene. (I mean this quite literally by the way, the active Korean pro scene is small enough that 16 might as well be half of it)
The amount of people in this thread saying "Well I'd rather have no tournament at all than a tournament with bad racial distribution" is mind-boggling to me.
On November 01 2016 09:09 Elentos wrote: I wonder how many complaints about the player pool this would have gotten if I left out the part about the new balance patch.
It would be bad no matter what. It being played on the balance changes makes it even worse though. I mean new content is great, but why is it so hard to do it the right way? It's hard to do it worse
Hey, maybe they'll do a second one some time with the other half of the Korean pro scene. (I mean this quite literally by the way, the active Korean pro scene is small enough that 16 might as well be half of it)
The amount of people in this thread saying "Well I'd rather have no tournament at all than a tournament with bad racial distribution" is mind-boggling to me.
I like new content, a new tournament. But i also think that it should be reasonably easy to do it in a decent way. This racial balance isn't decent, it's horrible and quite frankly destroys hype. I simply cannot understand how they can come to the conclusion that this is ok. That's mind-boggling to me I will still watch it ofc, but yeah i am hugely disappointed atm.
I'll probably take a look at the VOD's to see the non PvP matchups. I do like that they're bringing out a new tournament, but I feel the racial distribution could have been better.
Wow, I'll be skipping this tournament, nothing like 5 PvP, hopefully they at least arrange it so non of the other races have a mirror with eachother so it somewhat balances the race distribution.
I don't think PvP is a bad match up but this will be a bit too much.
Still, I feel like I'm always seeing a lot more zergs qualify for tournaments then get turfed out until there's only a handful left. I'll be surprised if there's PvP in the semi finals/finals.
i don't know how i feel about it. everybody in the west knows how strong zerg was but korean zergs were just complaining like hell. and now we are starting to see foreigners beat koreans consistantly because foreigners play a different meta. but blizzard still balance towards koreans. and this lineup almost twice as many toss as the other races. what kind of balance testing is that? like all PvP?
Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote: Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote: Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?
Sadly i doubt that'd stop them.
Yeah first they'd have to read that part before posting.
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote: Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?
Sadly i doubt that'd stop them.
Yeah first they'd have to read that part before posting.
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote: Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?
This doesn't really change anything. If they can't seem to schedule the tournament to accommodate a diverse group of players, they should just cancel it and make other plans where they could get a diverse group of players.
I’d be thankful if when people think of StarCraft, they remembered that there was once a player called Jaedong.
This is a incredibly strong quote, I'm sure JD has spent a great deal of time thinking of his legacy and how does it fit on the greater scale of human history.
On October 31 2016 21:53 Jer99 wrote: We should run our own tournament with our own balance patch
Do you remember the pm you sent me during the Lotv beta?
But yeah it is about time for the community to take over balancing and if TL leads the way, I guarantee the community will follow.
i do not remember what was it about?
checked my inbox and i don't have any sent/received to you, and i typically don't delete any PMs
Sorry it was Zeromus and not you who pmed me. I am often confused, this time apparently because you both are on the TL strategy team I guess.
But anyway, I've been saying the community should rally around a single balance mod and just move on from Blizzard since the beginning of the LOTV Beta when Blizzard was busy adjusting the Lurker range while completely dismissing double harvesting...
And now that Starleague is dead, it is really the perfect time. We really can't bleed out much more before we go into a complete death spiral. If TL led the charge, then the community would follow. Don't forget that Counterstrike and the MOBA genre were originally community ideas, and created by members of the community. We deserve better than what Blizzard's design team is coming up with.
Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.
I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.
CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.
It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.
On November 02 2016 13:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.
I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.
CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.
It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.
Yeah, my guess is you would have said the same thing when LOTV came out. And now Proleague is dead. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, but that is exactly what you are suggesting we do. And I disagree with your assessment of CS and DOTA, it never took anyone but Gooseman, Cliffe and Icefrog respectively before they became great.
"There are two primary choices in life: to accept conditions as they exist, or accept the responsibility for changing them." - Denis Waitley
It is time to accept responsibility. I am a custom map maker for WC3, and I'd be happy to help do some of the technical work for SC2. Sadly, I don't have the clout to lead this endeavor.
But TL does. And we have literally nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
This is good news! I want to see some form of Toss builds with this new and upcoming SC2 update. It sure would be better though if there are more Ts and Zs.
On November 02 2016 13:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.
I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.
CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.
It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.
Yeah, my guess is you would have said the same thing when LOTV came out. And now Proleague is dead. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, but that is exactly what you are suggesting we do. And I disagree with your assessment of CS and DOTA, it never took anyone but Gooseman, Cliffe and Icefrog respectively before they became great.
"There are two primary choices in life: to accept conditions as they exist, or accept the responsibility for changing them." - Denis Waitley
It is time to accept responsibility. I am a custom map maker for WC3, and I'd be happy to help do some of the technical work for SC2. Sadly, I don't have the clout to lead this endeavor.
But TL does. And we have literally nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
Well, Starbow was a huge effort in this direction, people sunk apparently thousands of man-hours into development and it still hasn't taken off hugely. I think that the problem is essentially that if the people on TL who want to change the game the most start working on it, the result will be pretty much BW 2.0 and that already has a pretty good competitor in actual BW. And then you have to understand that while BW does have a following, it's not really a lot of people and the potential to grow isn't big. This kinda runs in circles for years.
The essentially problem is that the thing that SC2 did well in order to gain new players are mostly exactly those you would like to undo. Where will you get the players then?
On November 02 2016 03:15 FFW_Rude wrote: Elentos ? If it's true that they replaced those who don't accept with other players and that's why we have lots of toss maybe put it in the OP to reduce the whiners ?
This doesn't really change anything. If they can't seem to schedule the tournament to accommodate a diverse group of players, they should just cancel it and make other plans where they could get a diverse group of players.
You really think a tournament planned like this one can be postponed ? They rented the studio, created and niomt a trophee. Have investor and sponsor money already etc... You just can't postpone everything.
On November 02 2016 13:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.
I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.
CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.
It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.
Yeah, my guess is you would have said the same thing when LOTV came out. And now Proleague is dead. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, but that is exactly what you are suggesting we do. And I disagree with your assessment of CS and DOTA, it never took anyone but Gooseman, Cliffe and Icefrog respectively before they became great.
"There are two primary choices in life: to accept conditions as they exist, or accept the responsibility for changing them." - Denis Waitley
It is time to accept responsibility. I am a custom map maker for WC3, and I'd be happy to help do some of the technical work for SC2. Sadly, I don't have the clout to lead this endeavor.
But TL does. And we have literally nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
Well, Starbow was a huge effort in this direction, people sunk apparently thousands of man-hours into development and it still hasn't taken off hugely. I think that the problem is essentially that if the people on TL who want to change the game the most start working on it, the result will be pretty much BW 2.0 and that already has a pretty good competitor in actual BW. And then you have to understand that while BW does have a following, it's not really a lot of people and the potential to grow isn't big. This kinda runs in circles for years.
The essentially problem is that the thing that SC2 did well in order to gain new players are mostly exactly those you would like to undo. Where will you get the players then?
This really doesn't belong here but still: I disagree with you on this, the main problem is not what the changes would be. Most casual players simply wouldn't give a damn about any of that. Is there high ground advantage? Who cares! What these mods really lack is all the features and accessibility. If you want to play those you need to do more than simply click "play". You don't have matchmaking and thus you do not win/lose 50% of your games. People state that the arcade system is one of the reasons sc2 never took off, but who really plays arcade maps in the year 2016 when there are tons adn tons of easily accessible games out there with more "polish" ? This might be ignorant about dota2's arcade scene and if it is tell me, but i actually doubt that it's much different there (ofc the basic playerbase is bigger in that game)
On November 02 2016 13:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Interesting idea BronzeKnee, but we hardly ever agree on anything, so I don't see a mod succeeding if everyone is trying to get their own agenda developed.
I think we should just stick to giving our opinion and let Blizzard decide who to listen to.
CS and mobas were community driven, but to get them polished to a great game required Riot et. al. As great as a community can become, it doesn't have the organizational structure to develop something like SC2 or LoL.
It's a lofty idea, but hardly feasible considering our resources.
Yeah, my guess is you would have said the same thing when LOTV came out. And now Proleague is dead. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, but that is exactly what you are suggesting we do. And I disagree with your assessment of CS and DOTA, it never took anyone but Gooseman, Cliffe and Icefrog respectively before they became great.
"There are two primary choices in life: to accept conditions as they exist, or accept the responsibility for changing them." - Denis Waitley
It is time to accept responsibility. I am a custom map maker for WC3, and I'd be happy to help do some of the technical work for SC2. Sadly, I don't have the clout to lead this endeavor.
But TL does. And we have literally nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
Well, Starbow was a huge effort in this direction, people sunk apparently thousands of man-hours into development and it still hasn't taken off hugely. I think that the problem is essentially that if the people on TL who want to change the game the most start working on it, the result will be pretty much BW 2.0 and that already has a pretty good competitor in actual BW. And then you have to understand that while BW does have a following, it's not really a lot of people and the potential to grow isn't big. This kinda runs in circles for years.
The essentially problem is that the thing that SC2 did well in order to gain new players are mostly exactly those you would like to undo. Where will you get the players then?
This really doesn't belong here but still: I disagree with you on this, the main problem is not what the changes would be. Most casual players simply wouldn't give a damn about any of that. Is there high ground advantage? Who cares! What these mods really lack is all the features and accessibility. If you want to play those you need to do more than simply click "play". You don't have matchmaking and thus you do not win/lose 50% of your games. People state that the arcade system is one of the reasons sc2 never took off, but who really plays arcade maps in the year 2016 when there are tons adn tons of easily accessible games out there with more "polish" ? This might be ignorant about dota2's arcade scene and if it is tell me, but i actually doubt that it's much different there (ofc the basic playerbase is bigger in that game)
Starbow did eventually implement a matchmaking system, no? It is through another piece of software, so it's not as one-click as normal ladder, but it's not really the hassle of normal Arcade either. In any case, the accessibility thing is solvable with enough effort.
You have a key point though - today there is just so much available in terms of games. The whole success of CS/DOTA came in the time when the offer was so much smaller, so even though they were just "custom games" for something else, they drew in so many people who didn't have much else good to play. The landscape now is just so much different.
Additionally, one has to take into account that DOTA was a radically different game than Warcraft, with different objectives and gameplay. Any "modified SC2" will have to deal with the biggest competitor, that is SC2 itself.
so funny seeing ppl thinking they can make better strategy than sc2 is. We had plenty of modes including the biggest - Starbow. There was some kind of hype around it, but basically none plays it now (well i mean comparetively to sc2). And its rly hilarious how every dia\plat\master players thinks that he understands game better then blizz does.
Preliminary (Nov 9th 9 pm kst) full league with trust, super, alive, and Byul. two maps for each match. The tie breaker will be bo1 top 3 goes to the ro16
Ro16 single elimination bo3 for ro16 bo5 for ro8 and ro4 bo7 for the final
Left bracket (10th) hero vs stats Dear vs TY Patience vs Gumiho sOs vs Zest
Right bracket(11th) Myungsik vs Byun Classic vs 1st place from the preliminary Solar vs 2nd place from the preliminary Ryung vs 3rd place from the preliminary
To add to that David Kim in pre-finals interview said that they are possibly going to look at Cyclone lock-on damage (which is now AA only) thinking it may be too low as it certainly seems so - it's 160 flat over 14 seconds with mag-field accelerator upgrade currently removed in the test patch.
On November 09 2016 21:45 PinoKotsBeer wrote: Just close the chat windows and the stream will perform much better.
Wow, seems fine for now, thanks never knew this could be a problem, or maybe my internet at work started to work better... but innovation's and soo's streams were stuttering every 5 seconds for me for days (watched them through TL)
On November 09 2016 21:45 PinoKotsBeer wrote: Just close the chat windows and the stream will perform much better.
Wow, seems fine for now, thanks never knew this could be a problem, or maybe my internet at work started to work better... but innovation's and soo's streams were stuttering every 5 seconds for me for days (watched them through TL)
It has nothing to do with your internet, its just a very bad player/interface (dunno what to call it). Glad it fixed the problem
On November 10 2016 22:08 Elentos wrote: Oh god the new cyclone xD
It's funny though how the new cyclone is only used as a supplement to bio forces. They are obviously very good vs stalkers. I don't think opening blink stalkers is viable in this patch.
On November 11 2016 03:51 NinjaToss wrote: Any recommended game?
sOs vs Zest game 1 was quite good, herO vs Stats game 3 was decent, Dear vs TY (full series) is excellent if you want to laugh at how silly the new cyclone can be (and only for that purpose).
sOs vs Zest game 1 and Dear vs TY game 1 also feature blink DTs so that's great.
It's interesting to Zerg players but maybe not others. Hydras being better is important since they're already meat and potatoes good stuff you want to use. But conversely, banes are often used against mass hydra play. So there's room for shit to get weird real fast. I don't think we'll see any mid game heavy baneling stuff or just a straight up roach hydra army over RR/ling roach muta. But I'm really interested to see exactly what they will do.
Like I said though, this may not be interesting to people who don't play the MU 50% of the time.
I really don't know shit about PvP or how the balance test mod will change it. I probably feel about PvP the same way others feel about ZvZ.
I didn't say it wasn't interesting, just that I don't think it'll change a lot.
PvP so far looks quite similar, but that makes sense, none of the core units (adepts, stalkers, sentries, immortals, disruptors) really got touched. Zealots got buffed but no Protoss game has lasted long enough for it to matter.
On November 11 2016 21:04 Elentos wrote: There's a Korean Youtube stream for this by the way for those who don't like Afreeca
Thanks, youtube stream is smooth.
Reaper was very effective but Byun?? why are you winning games with reaper and marines? Where are your mass cyclone builds man, innovation would be proud
I thought this tournament would feature scripted 40 minute games with every single new upgrade/unit day9 hosted before hots, byun is having none of that
Let's see, cyclone anti-armored damage reduction should hit the test map today or tomorrow Dayvie said, maybe Stats and Classic will then have a chance against TY and ByuN.
Or maybe they get killed without cyclones instead of with cyclones.
On November 11 2016 22:11 Probe1 wrote: Good match. I wish I could get my hands on the replay and see the BO
You could rewind the Youtube stream and write it down
They were a little focused on the other guys base and I don't have the interest to go count how much gas he's mining and deduce from there when he put on/pulled off gas and how many drones
This current build looks hot too
On November 11 2016 22:14 Isualin wrote: Did Byul use something new in his spine crawler build? I don't know most of the changes for zerg
No it wasn't part of the balance changes it was just executed extremely well.
On November 11 2016 22:43 Probe1 wrote: I liked watching it more than tankidank tankivacs. What do you guys as Terran players think of it?
I'd like a few more games first. Wasn't bad but not amazing. Especially wanna see if mech is back to being the stronger composition in TvT with this patch or if it was just the players. The way Ryung just busted through the middle of the map easily made me a bit uneasy.
Brilliant tactics and decision-making by aLive, letting Ryung get into a great position right between his natural and 3rd and surprising him by cutting off his own reinforcement path.
Mech vs mech looks hilariously stupid, bio vs mech looks okay.
Tomorrow: Stats vs TY & Patience vs Zest; Sunday: ByuN vs Classic & ByuL vs Ryung; Monday: Ro4 + Finals
I just had a short look into the stream: Mass cyclones?! Man thats just obnoxious... or I really did miss the context. That unit feels like a pencil with no room in the pencil case.
There's an amateur English cast but I dunno if he's online.
Thanks. This tournament is being terribly promoted.
At least the community could do its part but nope, apparently Nordic Championship qualifiers on VikingTV are worth featuring on calendar but not this tournament with 8x more viewers and world class players.
There's an amateur English cast but I dunno if he's online.
Thanks. This tournament is being terribly promoted.
At least the community could do its part but nope, apparently Nordic Championship qualifiers on VikingTV are worth featuring on calendar but not this tournament with 8x more viewers and world class players.
There's an amateur English cast but I dunno if he's online.
Thanks. This tournament is being terribly promoted.
At least the community could do its part but nope, apparently Nordic Championship qualifiers on VikingTV are worth featuring on calendar but not this tournament with 8x more viewers and world class players.
Did you submit it?
I didn't even know it was happening until someone bumped this thread an hour ago.
There's an amateur English cast but I dunno if he's online.
Thanks. This tournament is being terribly promoted.
At least the community could do its part but nope, apparently Nordic Championship qualifiers on VikingTV are worth featuring on calendar but not this tournament with 8x more viewers and world class players.
Did you submit it?
I thought you went to bed, are you trying to fake out the universe?
There's an amateur English cast but I dunno if he's online.
Thanks. This tournament is being terribly promoted.
At least the community could do its part but nope, apparently Nordic Championship qualifiers on VikingTV are worth featuring on calendar but not this tournament with 8x more viewers and world class players.
Did you submit it?
I thought you went to bed, are you trying to fake out the universe?
Yes and it worked. I am actually in bed though, watching on phone :p
Elentos why dont you update OP with results rather than in the thread? makes it easier for people who havent been following the tournament /thread to keep up with the results.
On November 12 2016 22:52 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Elentos why dont you update OP with results rather than in the thread? makes it easier for people who havent been following the tournament /thread to keep up with the results.
edit: thanks for keeping us updated by the way
It's already pretty big and nobody reads the OP anyway. If there was a Liquipedia page for this I wouldn't even bother doing it at all
On November 12 2016 22:54 Durnuu wrote: The cyclone is like a machine gun but with missiles instead of bullets It looks kinda silly, though it already did before
Did you watch the new Carbot episode about the cyclone? Fucking terrifying.
I have updated the OP with streams and results and the event is now in the calendar (listed as GSL because I didn't really know what else to call it). Now all we need is a Liquipedia page.
Thanks for getting this in the sidebar folks, and for keeping spoilers out. I just found out about the matches and am catching up. Real happy to see these guys playing.
On November 13 2016 00:14 Elentos wrote: I have updated the OP with streams and results and the event is now in the calendar (listed as GSL because I didn't really know what else to call it). Now all we need is a Liquipedia page.
The name of the this tournament is GSL "Cataclysm Tournament" (Koreans call the upcoming big patch cataclysm patch)
On November 13 2016 00:14 Elentos wrote: I have updated the OP with streams and results and the event is now in the calendar (listed as GSL because I didn't really know what else to call it). Now all we need is a Liquipedia page.
The name of the this tournament is GSL "Cataclysm Tournament" (Koreans call the upcoming big patch cataclysm patch)
Yes I know that (it even says so in the OP), but it's not like GSL Cataclysm Tournament is a pre-set option from the drop down menu I can choose for a calendar event so I just went with GSL is what I'm saying.
On October 31 2016 21:25 AbouSV wrote: Byun may still be dead from Blizzcon, so it's fine :p
Ahem..
ByuN: Right after I became champion I went back to the practice room, plugged in my equipment and started playing a few more games so I could connect the feeling of winning the World Championship with practicing and not forget it. The staff working there was really shocked about that.
On November 13 2016 00:45 Socke wrote: how to find vods for this?
Check the Global Afreeca stream linked in the OP, at the top left there will be little thumbnails for the VODs of every day (Youtube link only has VODs for today and yesterday). Unfortunately I can't seem to find a VOD for the qualifier though.
yeah but I think all the korean streams are down. One worked for like 5 mins for me. Funny that GSL is hosting a tournament to showcase the new changes etc. and there are no streams for people to watch
I really like the build soO is doing. I first saw it Losira execute it on Gettysburg and have fallen in love with it. It messes with everything that isn't reaper FE
Sadly enough Gumi is one of those mad men that open reaper on Apotheosis
On November 13 2016 21:59 Isualin wrote: the tank damage is so satisfying
It is but I don't think Gumi is making enough tanks yet
On November 13 2016 22:04 Ej_ wrote: I really like the build soO is doing. I first saw it Losira execute it on Gettysburg and have fallen in love with it. It messes with everything that isn't reaper FE
How much did it hurt you to admit you like something you saw Losira do?
On November 13 2016 22:08 Durnuu wrote: Did cyclones get an armor buff ? They look tankier than usual. Maybe it's just because they kill stuff faster, idk
On November 13 2016 22:08 Durnuu wrote: Did cyclones get an armor buff ? They look tankier than usual. Maybe it's just because they kill stuff faster, idk
On November 14 2016 00:27 The_Red_Viper wrote: I hope we get a TvT final
I'm not sure how hyped I can get for mass cyclone vs mass cyclone
Didn't watch the other tvts, it's that bad huh?
Well
aLive went bio against Ryung's mech for 1 game but it didn't really go amazingly well. And then in the second game both of them just massed cyclones.
Maybe it gets better when top Terrans like TY and ByuN play TvT though.
By all logic mass siege tanks should just annihilate mass cyclone, especially due to how short ranged they are. I guess the definitive answer will come once Blizz rolls out the patch on ladder.
On November 14 2016 00:56 DrunkenJedi wrote: Protoss underwhelming in this new patch? Don't know too much about the patch though.
I'd say Protoss mostly stayed the same (minor buffs and nerfs) while the other races got some very major changes (mostly buffs) so it'll be hard for Protoss at least at the start.
Maybe it gets better when top Terrans like TY and ByuN play TvT though.
People still pretending Ryung isn't a top TvTer smh.
He's a top TvTer alright. But there's still a whole tier between him and TY/ByuN. You could say Ryung is top tier and TY/ByuN are god tier TvTers. Especially with preparation, even players like Ryung lose the vast majority of their matches against them.
Also they're way better micro players than Ryung or aLive which is pretty essential for bio play and that was mostly what I was getting at. And the fact that I don't think Ryung and aLive are on the same level atm in TvT.
Maybe it gets better when top Terrans like TY and ByuN play TvT though.
People still pretending Ryung isn't a top TvTer smh.
He's a top TvTer alright. But there's still a whole tier between him and TY/ByuN. You could say Ryung is top tier and TY/ByuN are god tier TvTers. Especially with preparation, even players like Ryung lose the vast majority of their matches against them.
Also they're way better micro players than Ryung or aLive which is pretty essential for bio play and that was mostly what I was getting at. And the fact that I don't think Ryung and aLive are on the same level atm in TvT.
Funny you should mention that since in the last two months the head-to-head between Ryung and ByuN in online cups was the closest it's ever been, with a lot of close series and close matches. And as we know in SC2, recent form is the only form that really matters at any given time.
On November 14 2016 04:11 Poopi wrote: So on the new patch it's Z>T>P? But is P>Z?
Z>T is still questionable imo. aLive destroyed ByuL with bio in the preliminary. GuMiho and Ryung went mech in 5 out of 6 games but failed. I want to see ByuN vs ByuL first before calling that.
It's looking like Z>P though from everything I've seen (and that superiority is in due part because of the hydra buff).
is my guess from here on out. Hope ByuL finally wins something, but I'm doubtful he can survive ByuN's bio. If ByuN screws around and goes mech I think ByuL stomps him as his anti-mech prowess seems to have transitioned over to LotV.
On November 14 2016 04:11 Poopi wrote: So on the new patch it's Z>T>P? But is P>Z?
Z>T is still questionable imo. aLive destroyed ByuL with bio in the preliminary. GuMiho and Ryung went mech in 5 out of 6 games but failed. I want to see ByuN vs ByuL first before calling that.
It's looking like Z>P though from everything I've seen (and that superiority is in due part because of the hydra buff).
Yeah looks like mech is not as strong as ought to be, or they don't know yet how to play it. ByuN will have a hard time tho I expect
On November 14 2016 00:27 The_Red_Viper wrote: I hope we get a TvT final
I'm not sure how hyped I can get for mass cyclone vs mass cyclone
Didn't watch the other tvts, it's that bad huh?
Well
aLive went bio against Ryung's mech for 1 game but it didn't really go amazingly well. And then in the second game both of them just massed cyclones.
Maybe it gets better when top Terrans like TY and ByuN play TvT though.
By all logic mass siege tanks should just annihilate mass cyclone, especially due to how short ranged they are. I guess the definitive answer will come once Blizz rolls out the patch on ladder.
In my experience so far, the cyclone is so good that when I go seige tank heavy mech they just run in and snipe CC's in about 4 seconds. It's actually ridiculous. You can't expand, the cyclone player has all the map control and can always force a base trade. I've had no success vs cyclone heavy mech so far.
Okay I made it home in time to update the OP and shit during the matches. Seems like we're not getting a professional English cast live from the studio, that's kind of a shame, I was somewhat hoping that would happen. Either way hoping for some good games today and less cyclone cheese. Youtube for today:
But really, does anyone know the name/ID of the Korean host (the one who did the introduction)? I always want to praise him for his epic amounts of passion but I can't remember his name.
On November 14 2016 19:02 Elentos wrote: But really, does anyone know the name/ID of the Korean host (the one who did the introduction)? I always want to praise him for his epic amounts of passion but I can't remember his name.
HT: How do you think you will do against your opponent BT: He is an excellent player but I am sorry to be away from my puppy so I will 3-0 him to get home faster HT: [Loud noises]
On November 14 2016 19:03 Musicus wrote: ByuN will have to buy a lot of Pizza.
Oh yeah it's probably not a crowd of Starcraft fans. It's actually a bunch of people who saw there was an event in the studio today and went in praying for free pizza.
On November 14 2016 19:03 Musicus wrote: ByuN will have to buy a lot of Pizza.
Oh yeah it's probably not a crowd of Starcraft fans. It's actually a bunch of people who saw there was an event in the studio today and went in praying for free pizza.
On November 14 2016 19:03 Musicus wrote: ByuN will have to buy a lot of Pizza.
Oh yeah it's probably not a crowd of Starcraft fans. It's actually a bunch of people who saw there was an event in the studio today and went in praying for free pizza.
Reported for game bashing.
RIP in pepperoni pizza
These interviews are so long and elaborate but we don't have a translator ._.
On November 14 2016 19:03 Musicus wrote: ByuN will have to buy a lot of Pizza.
Oh yeah it's probably not a crowd of Starcraft fans. It's actually a bunch of people who saw there was an event in the studio today and went in praying for free pizza.
Reported for game bashing.
RIP in pepperoni pizza
These interviews are so long and elaborate but we don't have a translator ._.
TY and Zest: I'm sad I lost at Blizzcon, I will win this to redeem myself and show good games.
Byun: I want to continue my good form and show good games.
On November 14 2016 19:03 Musicus wrote: ByuN will have to buy a lot of Pizza.
Oh yeah it's probably not a crowd of Starcraft fans. It's actually a bunch of people who saw there was an event in the studio today and went in praying for free pizza.
Reported for game bashing.
RIP in pepperoni pizza
These interviews are so long and elaborate but we don't have a translator ._.
TY and Zest: I'm sad I lost at Blizzcon, I will win this to redeem myself and show good games.
Byun: I want to continue my good form and show good games.
I've never quite understood why they use a mix of English and Hangul. You'll have the players and tourney name written in Hangul but Best of 5 and Ro16 in English.
On November 14 2016 19:20 Probe1 wrote: I've never quite understood why they use a mix of English and Hangul. You'll have the players and tourney name written in Hangul but Best of 5 and Ro16 in English.
On November 14 2016 19:20 Probe1 wrote: I've never quite understood why they use a mix of English and Hangul. You'll have the players and tourney name written in Hangul but Best of 5 and Ro16 in English.
Writing ro16 requires 4 keyboard clicks, whilst 16 강 is written with 5. Efficiency at its best ;d
On November 14 2016 19:20 Probe1 wrote: I've never quite understood why they use a mix of English and Hangul. You'll have the players and tourney name written in Hangul but Best of 5 and Ro16 in English.
And then the maps in Hangul RIP
pretty sure it's Hangul spelling of the english names so if you type it on google translate you should see something like "frost-uh" under there
On November 14 2016 19:20 Probe1 wrote: I've never quite understood why they use a mix of English and Hangul. You'll have the players and tourney name written in Hangul but Best of 5 and Ro16 in English.
And then the maps in Hangul RIP
pretty sure it's Hangul spelling of the english names so if you type it on google translate you should see something like "frost-uh" under there
I'll do that later if I have to, now there's no time.
On November 14 2016 19:20 Probe1 wrote: I've never quite understood why they use a mix of English and Hangul. You'll have the players and tourney name written in Hangul but Best of 5 and Ro16 in English.
And then the maps in Hangul RIP
pretty sure it's Hangul spelling of the english names so if you type it on google translate you should see something like "frost-uh" under there
I'll do that later if I have to, now there's no time.
Map 1 : New Gettysburg (duh) Map 2 : King Sejong Station Map 3 : Frozen Temple Map 4 : Apotheosis Map 5 : Galactic Process
On November 14 2016 19:20 Probe1 wrote: I've never quite understood why they use a mix of English and Hangul. You'll have the players and tourney name written in Hangul but Best of 5 and Ro16 in English.
And then the maps in Hangul RIP
pretty sure it's Hangul spelling of the english names so if you type it on google translate you should see something like "frost-uh" under there
I'll do that later if I have to, now there's no time.
Map 1 : New Gettysburg (duh) Map 2 : King Sejong Station Map 3 : Frozen Temple Map 4 : Apotheosis Map 5 : Galactic Process
On November 14 2016 19:20 Probe1 wrote: I've never quite understood why they use a mix of English and Hangul. You'll have the players and tourney name written in Hangul but Best of 5 and Ro16 in English.
And then the maps in Hangul RIP
pretty sure it's Hangul spelling of the english names so if you type it on google translate you should see something like "frost-uh" under there
I'll do that later if I have to, now there's no time.
Map 1 : New Gettysburg (duh) Map 2 : King Sejong Station Map 3 : Frozen Temple Map 4 : Apotheosis Map 5 : Galactic Process
Thanks dude.
Zest was like "Yeah I've seen enough of this cyclone rush shit to know how this works"
Perfect I'm here for the 1-1 between TY and Zest. With a bit of luck I will be able to see some games of ByuN. Why isn't it in tournament subsection tho :o
On November 14 2016 20:41 SeriousLus wrote: sooo... no twitch at all? only that fing afreeca sh*t that noone can watch? and no english stream? wtf is going on?
youtube stream as well. But yeah no english stream.
On November 14 2016 20:41 SeriousLus wrote: sooo... no twitch at all? only that fing afreeca sh*t that noone can watch? and no english stream? wtf is going on?
On November 14 2016 20:41 SeriousLus wrote: sooo... no twitch at all? only that fing afreeca sh*t that noone can watch? and no english stream? wtf is going on?
What a game lol. But do they use any of the patch changes at all? Or they only removed tankivac+buffed cyclone? They changed hydra but did they change bling/ling? I don't think so so they are not showing any of the new stuff :x.
On November 14 2016 20:51 Poopi wrote: What a game lol. But do they use any of the patch changes at all? Or they only removed tankivac+buffed cyclone? They changed hydra but did they change bling/ling? I don't think so so they are not showing any of the new stuff :x.
Speed banes have 10 more health and it was kinda noticeable in all of ByuN's failed attempts to snipe them in time. But that was the only thing.
On November 14 2016 20:51 Poopi wrote: What a game lol. But do they use any of the patch changes at all? Or they only removed tankivac+buffed cyclone? They changed hydra but did they change bling/ling? I don't think so so they are not showing any of the new stuff :x.
Well they're not supposed to show new stuff, they're playing in a tournament they're trying to win.
On November 14 2016 20:51 Poopi wrote: What a game lol. But do they use any of the patch changes at all? Or they only removed tankivac+buffed cyclone? They changed hydra but did they change bling/ling? I don't think so so they are not showing any of the new stuff :x.
On November 14 2016 20:41 SeriousLus wrote: sooo... no twitch at all? only that fing afreeca sh*t that noone can watch? and no english stream? wtf is going on?
On November 14 2016 20:56 Charoisaur wrote: this mass ling counter to reapers with good micro seems more effective than roaches. I guess after all Dark really didn't react optimally.
but I still hate the build
both are valid responses. Roaches have more HP so terran can't just kill them off in a stroke of brilliance as easily, but they're slower making it easier to outposition them or react to a counter attack.
On November 14 2016 20:56 Charoisaur wrote: this mass ling counter to reapers with good micro seems more effective than roaches. I guess after all Dark really didn't react optimally.
but I still hate the build
both are valid responses. Roaches have more HP so terran can't just kill them off in a stroke of brilliance as easily, but they're slower making it easier to outposition them or react to a counter attack.
yeah but with roaches it's a huge pain to take a third
On November 14 2016 21:06 Elentos wrote: Not gonna lie
The patch doesn't look very good.
how so... ? nothing about this game has anything to do with the patch in the first plac
That is exactly why. TvZ is still the same. PvP is still the same. ZvZ is still the same. TvT looks awful and PvT got even cheesier than it already was.
On November 14 2016 21:06 Elentos wrote: Not gonna lie
The patch doesn't look very good.
how so... ? nothing about this game has anything to do with the patch in the first plac
That is exactly why. TvZ is still the same. PvP is still the same. ZvZ is still the same. TvT looks awful and PvT got even cheesier than it already was.
the players are still used to the old patch so don't expect that they know exactly how to play on the new patch. I expect the meta to change quite drastically in a few months
On November 14 2016 21:06 Elentos wrote: Not gonna lie
The patch doesn't look very good.
how so... ? nothing about this game has anything to do with the patch in the first plac
That is exactly why. TvZ is still the same. PvP is still the same. ZvZ is still the same. TvT looks awful and PvT got even cheesier than it already was.
the players are still used to the old patch so don't expect that they know exactly how to play on the new patch. I expect the meta to change quite drastically in a few months
There's no reason for the meta to change much because many changes didn't affect units that are common in the meta. And the ones that did aren't going like Blizzard wanted them to (e.g. cyclone buff doesn't lead to mech in TvP but bio/cyclone instead).
On November 14 2016 21:06 Elentos wrote: Not gonna lie
The patch doesn't look very good.
how so... ? nothing about this game has anything to do with the patch in the first plac
That is exactly why. TvZ is still the same. PvP is still the same. ZvZ is still the same. TvT looks awful and PvT got even cheesier than it already was.
Well These players didn't spend much time trying out the new patch because most of them still play in tournaments on the old patch IIRC, which means that sticking to what they know and already trained to do is their best bet to win. Also it always takes some time to figure macro builds out after drastic changes, so there's going to be predominantly cheesiness in certain matchups.
I'm a huge fan of tankivacs so I'm not too much of a fan of the patch honestly but take all what you're seeing here with a grain of salt
On November 14 2016 21:06 Elentos wrote: Not gonna lie
The patch doesn't look very good.
how so... ? nothing about this game has anything to do with the patch in the first plac
That is exactly why. TvZ is still the same. PvP is still the same. ZvZ is still the same. TvT looks awful and PvT got even cheesier than it already was.
the players are still used to the old patch so don't expect that they know exactly how to play on the new patch. I expect the meta to change quite drastically in a few months
There's no reason for the meta to change much because many changes didn't affect units that are common in the meta. And the ones that did aren't going like Blizzard wanted them to (e.g. cyclone buff doesn't lead to mech in TvP but bio/cyclone instead).
On November 14 2016 21:06 Elentos wrote: Not gonna lie
The patch doesn't look very good.
how so... ? nothing about this game has anything to do with the patch in the first plac
That is exactly why. TvZ is still the same. PvP is still the same. ZvZ is still the same. TvT looks awful and PvT got even cheesier than it already was.
the players are still used to the old patch so don't expect that they know exactly how to play on the new patch. I expect the meta to change quite drastically in a few months
There's no reason for the meta to change much because many changes didn't affect units that are common in the meta. And the ones that did aren't going like Blizzard wanted them to (e.g. cyclone buff doesn't lead to mech in TvP but bio/cyclone instead).
baneling buff and ultra/lib nerf are huge for tvz and the tempest nerf for pvt. also mech might become a thing.
On November 14 2016 21:14 dNa wrote: I'm a huge fan of tankivacs so I'm not too much of a fan of the patch honestly but take all what you're seeing here with a grain of salt
What I'm seeing is just as problematic as what I'm not seeing.
On November 14 2016 21:14 dNa wrote: I'm a huge fan of tankivacs so I'm not too much of a fan of the patch honestly but take all what you're seeing here with a grain of salt
What I'm seeing is just as problematic as what I'm not seeing.
the reason you're not seeing what you want to see is because it's just old builds on new patch. ByuN literally used the same build against Dark at blizzcon. Meta doesn't change that fast because players didn't play the testmaps very much clearly.
On November 14 2016 21:14 dNa wrote: I'm a huge fan of tankivacs so I'm not too much of a fan of the patch honestly but take all what you're seeing here with a grain of salt
What I'm seeing is just as problematic as what I'm not seeing.
the reason you're not seeing what you want to see is because it's just old builds on new patch. ByuN literally used the same build against Dark at blizzcon. Meta doesn't change that fast because players didn't play the testmaps very much clearly.
TBF, with BlizzCon and VSL, it's hard to fault ByuN for not playing that much test map so far
On November 14 2016 21:14 dNa wrote: I'm a huge fan of tankivacs so I'm not too much of a fan of the patch honestly but take all what you're seeing here with a grain of salt
What I'm seeing is just as problematic as what I'm not seeing.
the reason you're not seeing what you want to see is because it's just old builds on new patch. ByuN literally used the same build against Dark at blizzcon. Meta doesn't change that fast because players didn't play the testmaps very much clearly.
TBF, with BlizzCon and VSL, it's hard to fault ByuN for not playing that much test map so far
duh, I'm not faulting him for it, I'm just explaining why TvZ looks so similar to before the patch ;p
Shit banes got buffed? I hope they nerfed zerg late game enough because ByuN struggled hard with far better tech (medivacs mines liberators marines). Could not see the other games. Hopefully ByuN can win but it seems very hard on this patch :/.
On November 14 2016 21:20 JabuSeika wrote: is fun TvZ back? is this real?
It's only fun until ultras are out.
they got nerfed
So? I'm just saying it as I see it.
Obviously well played by ByuL though.
before the patch I agree that the game got boring once ultras came out because they kind of stagnated the game with terran having to turtle with ghosts and liberators. Now terran can continue to trade once ultras are out so imo it remains fun.
On November 14 2016 21:20 JabuSeika wrote: is fun TvZ back? is this real?
It's only fun until ultras are out.
they got nerfed
So? I'm just saying it as I see it.
Obviously well played by ByuL though.
before the patch I agree that the game got boring once ultras came out because they kind of stagnated the game with terran having to turtle with ghosts and liberators. Now terran can continue to trade once ultras are out so imo it remains fun.
well judging by that last game it still seems hard to trade with ultras, but I'm still hopeful.
On November 14 2016 21:20 JabuSeika wrote: is fun TvZ back? is this real?
It's only fun until ultras are out.
they got nerfed
So? I'm just saying it as I see it.
Obviously well played by ByuL though.
before the patch I agree that the game got boring once ultras came out because they kind of stagnated the game with terran having to turtle with ghosts and liberators. Now terran can continue to trade once ultras are out so imo it remains fun.
well judging by that last game it still seems hard to trade with ultras, but I'm still hopeful.
Byun was already far behind when the ultras came out
On November 14 2016 21:30 Yiome wrote: Just tuned in. Byun made tanks and lost...? Theoretically new siege tank should be much better against Ultra right?
no. unless you make a metric shitton they're worse because they get 2 shots off and then are dead when you can't pick them up. And if you make enough to kill ultras with they just end up blinding clouded. So. Tanks are worse than last patch in tvz.
On November 14 2016 21:20 JabuSeika wrote: is fun TvZ back? is this real?
It's only fun until ultras are out.
they got nerfed
So? I'm just saying it as I see it.
Obviously well played by ByuL though.
before the patch I agree that the game got boring once ultras came out because they kind of stagnated the game with terran having to turtle with ghosts and liberators. Now terran can continue to trade once ultras are out so imo it remains fun.
I'll concede that g3 wasn't the best example since ByuN stayed on bio for too long and when he finally got some thors and libs he effectively suicided them by targetting mutas, but it's still not amazing to watch in my opinion.
On November 14 2016 21:20 JabuSeika wrote: is fun TvZ back? is this real?
It's only fun until ultras are out.
they got nerfed
So? I'm just saying it as I see it.
Obviously well played by ByuL though.
before the patch I agree that the game got boring once ultras came out because they kind of stagnated the game with terran having to turtle with ghosts and liberators. Now terran can continue to trade once ultras are out so imo it remains fun.
I'll concede that g3 wasn't the best example since ByuN stayed on bio for too long and when he finally got some thors and libs he effectively suicided them by targetting mutas, but it's still not amazing to watch in my opinion.
at least it probably won't be worth anymore to rush them on 3 bases
Cyclones seem so bad, he was unscouted afaik (didn't see the beginning but they showed ByuN having no vision, don't know if he scouted no 2nd base/raw at home) and still got trashed by a simple surround. Maybe it's better if you mix in hellions? Every time I see the new cyclones in TvZ it looks good until they all get killed easily. Better to keep it as a niche unit like it was before :o. So far seems like a bad patch for fun games but I did not see TvZ late yet.
On November 14 2016 21:46 Charoisaur wrote: Byun is losing a lot of tvz's lately. first soO, than solar and now byul
ByuN's TvZ has always been his worst matchup in LotV. In the three starleagues he didn't win, it was a Zerg that knocked him out (RagnaroK SSL1, Curious GSL1, Solar SSL2). I believe it was Losira who knocked him out of WESG and lost in the cross-over finals vs. Dark 3-2. He just managed to play a phenomenal series vs. Dark at Blizzcon when everything was on the line.
Love how little downtime there is in this tourney, they did the semis and finals in half the time of blizzcon and so far all series have gone to match point haha
One of the koreans in the youtube chat said that they were worried about no more starleagues in korea. Could be a bad translation so take it with a grain of salt.
On November 14 2016 23:12 Lil_nooblet wrote: One of the koreans in the youtube chat said that they were worried about no more starleagues in korea. Could be a bad translation so take it with a grain of salt.
I remember not too long ago DK saying "mech might be too strong" based on exactly 0 pro games. It's kinda ironic that, between the shoutcraft at blizzcon and this tournament, I haven't see mech win a single game outside TvT. What happened?
On November 14 2016 23:56 petro1987 wrote: I remember not too long ago DK saying "mech might be too strong" based on exactly 0 pro games. It's kinda ironic that, between the shoutcraft at blizzcon and this tournament, I haven't see mech win a single game outside TvT. What happened?
David Kim happened. He has been making mech better ever since HotS and every single time it would actually get worse. That man should be called 'the bane of mech'.
On November 14 2016 23:56 petro1987 wrote: I remember not too long ago DK saying "mech might be too strong" based on exactly 0 pro games. It's kinda ironic that, between the shoutcraft at blizzcon and this tournament, I haven't see mech win a single game outside TvT. What happened?
if we happen to have less mech after the patch than before (and tbh it's not that bad in the last few months, except that Inno doesn't play enough tournament games :p) it would be hilarious.
On November 14 2016 23:56 petro1987 wrote: I remember not too long ago DK saying "mech might be too strong" based on exactly 0 pro games. It's kinda ironic that, between the shoutcraft at blizzcon and this tournament, I haven't see mech win a single game outside TvT. What happened?
if we happen to have less mech after the patch than before (and tbh it's not that bad in the last few months, except that Inno doesn't play enough tournament games :p) it would be hilarious.
i dont think that´ll be the case. mech shouldnt be the go to build but it should be a viable option
EPT
Protoss - 
Classic, 
Terran - 
aLive, 
Zerg - 
ByuL, 
GSLTV on Global Afreeca
PiGGieBANx on Global Afreeca
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![[image loading]](https://a.pomf.cat/bknbaw.jpg)
