EPTTLMC7 Results - Page 2
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16101 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 11 2016 06:17 Elentos wrote: Isn't Frozen Zone almost a given because it's the only 4-spawn map in the TLMC finals? I can't imagine they want to have Frost as the only 4-spawn map in the next ladder pool, but I also doubt they'll go scraping for maps who didn't make the finals. It's a two in one map, so not really a four spawn map either. Also it isn't a very good map. The lack of 4 player maps is due to four-player maps being harder to get right than 2 player maps. Also people don't seem to like four player maps much due to added variance of scouting the wrong way which is a shame. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 11 2016 06:36 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Also it isn't a very good map. I mean, I can accept the rest of what you said, but when is the last time this argument stopped a map from making ladder?  | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
 Anesthesia Station is so boring *yawn* | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 11 2016 06:43 Elentos wrote: I mean, I can accept the rest of what you said, but when is the last time this argument stopped a map from making ladder? When Biome wasn't added to the map pool after winning TLMC4, so it isn't completely unheard of. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 11 2016 06:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: When Biome wasn't added to the map pool after winning TLMC4. So yeah, that's a while ago. Keep in mind that that argument wasn't good enough for Ulrena, Prion Terraces, Dash and Terminal, etc. And I'm sure Blizzard would want to keep it to at least 2 4-spawn maps, right? 6 2-player maps, 1 4-player map (and one that's from HotS no less?) doesn't seem varied enough for Blizzard's tastes. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 11 2016 06:48 Elentos wrote: So yeah, that's a while ago. Keep in mind that that argument wasn't good enough for Ulrena, Prion Terraces, Dash and Terminal, etc. And I'm sure Blizzard would want to keep it to at least 2 4-spawn maps, right? 6 2-player maps, 1 4-player map (and one that's from HotS no less?) doesn't seem varied enough for Blizzard's tastes. They most likely wouldn't be completely happy about it. Maybe next map contest we'll get a "not 2 spawn map" category then. It wouldn't be bad category either, certainly much broader than "interesting gold usage". Or maybe Blizzard will make a four-player map for the next map pool. Either option seem more likely than Frozen Zone making it especially since there are so many better "large macro maps" in the contest. | ||
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 11 2016 06:54 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Or maybe Blizzard will make a four-player map for the next map pool. God help us all if we get another Lerilak Crest of Ruins of Seras. | ||
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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Redrot
United States446 Posts
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Namrufus
United States396 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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Avexyli
United States712 Posts
On June 11 2016 07:00 Nerchio wrote: I only voted for 2 out of the 5 (annihilation station, gorija) I don't think other maps will offer such good gameplay in the long term, Apotheosis is too big, new gettysburg is boring <3 <3 <3 glad you liked my changes. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
gratz to the winners, but I'm crossing fingers to not have too many big ass maps in next season's ladder pool. | ||
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Fatam
1986 Posts
The negatives: - Scouting wrong is just dumb RNG that we don't need in the game, and sometimes even results in BO losses, or if not then it can eventually lead to a loss because you got slightly behind and could never quite catch up. - Very difficult to balance non-cross positions - Which leads to them usually being fixed to cross only. - But if a map is cross only, then it might as well have been a 2p map to begin with, because now you just have a bloated overly large 2p map that isn't as good as it could be because it has to be symmetrical in 4 quadrants and have enough bases for 4 quadrants. The positives: - if you can actually balance the non-cross positions, then you can have different games depending on spawns which is sometimes cool. Although scouting RNG is still stupid. So basically you have a ton of risk and very little reward. Do we really have to have a 4p map in the pool? :-\ | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 11 2016 15:37 Fatam wrote: 4 player maps are.. to be brutally honest: straight garbage most of the time. There's very little reason to make one. Lots of negatives, rarely any positives. The negatives: - Scouting wrong is just dumb RNG that we don't need in the game, and sometimes even results in BO losses, or if not then it can eventually lead to a loss because you got slightly behind and could never quite catch up. - Very difficult to balance non-cross positions - Which leads to them usually being fixed to cross only. - But if a map is cross only, then it might as well have been a 2p map to begin with, because now you just have a bloated overly large 2p map that isn't as good as it could be because it has to be symmetrical in 4 quadrants and have enough bases for 4 quadrants. The positives: - if you can actually balance the non-cross positions, then you can have different games depending on spawns which is sometimes cool. Although scouting RNG is still stupid. So basically you have a ton of risk and very little reward. Do we really have to have a 4p map in the pool? :-\ Four player maps play out differently than two player maps. First of all a few builds are much much weaker (proxy-rax reaper, cannon rushes etc). Second of all managing scouting RNG is a skill. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you get unlucky; a great player can leverage or mitigate that variance (most players still hate it though). There's a reason why in some match-ups you scout cross first in BW for example. Or sometimes send out two workers to scout. And then there's the positive you mentioned: that if you do do everything right, you get different games on different spawns, which is something you can't get with two player maps. All that being said, while it's desirable to have a 4p map in the pool, if there isn't a good one, Blizzard shouldn't go out of their way to put one in. Of course the fact that most mapmakers aren't fond of 4p maps due to how hard they are to get right does mean we're less likely to get a good one in the future too. | ||
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Fatam
1986 Posts
Second of all managing scouting RNG is a skill. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you get unlucky; a great player can leverage or mitigate that variance part is kind of BS. Great players can make the best of any terribly designed thing in any game, and they do because they love the game overall, but that doesn't make it a good thing.edit: sort of back on-topic: I am also sad that Shiva + Korhal didn't place. I also liked Paladino. Although maybe even more than those I would have liked to see more action on Dasan now that is has been revamped. Looks like it has potential. | ||
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