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Bastinian
Serbia177 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eycktnP.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JFBlquq.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m7r74mK.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/48cqedv.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/01XBtc8.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/61T15pD.jpg) I personally think this would be pretty helpful for both casuals and pros. Now if Blizzard would accept this idea, they should make it look that it doesn't block vision of important stuff like resources on top right of screen. What do you think about this? Poll: Share your opinion in poll! No (131) Yes (34) 165 total votes Your vote: Share your opinion in poll! | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
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Bastinian
Serbia177 Posts
On May 18 2016 20:40 swissman777 wrote: why so many nos? This would make this more casual friendly game! If it doesn't affect the pro scene too much this is great improvement! I'm wondering too.. :D I expected a feedback after those No votes but I didn't got it :D | ||
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Sennmeister
United Kingdom7 Posts
Also what happens if you are being attacked in multiple places at once? I'd expect this to become annoying quite quickly! | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On May 18 2016 20:49 Sennmeister wrote: Also what happens if you are being attacked in multiple places at once? I'd expect this to become annoying quite quickly! Good point. I personally would certainly not use it. I want to improve my minimap awareness and avoid any clutter on the screen. Imagine Showtime's screen vs Nerchio in game 1 haha. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
I could see it as a turn on/off feature, but if you use it, it will greatly slow your progress. | ||
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
But then, your screen can jump fast in many directions every seconds, so it would be like disco party with red signs all over the screen if you attack from 2 sides, your enemy attacks from 2-3 sides + you expanding....its just RED EVERYWHEEEEEERE | ||
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Thinh123456
70 Posts
 )))) you don't want to cover all your screen with those red arrows because of multi-pronged attacks )) So, i say: HELL NO!!! | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
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Bastinian
Serbia177 Posts
Also, my basic idea would be these red arrows. Blizz could add some basic arrows that you can see, and not cover half of screen. i don't like it, the whole "screen flashing red" thing is closely associated to the idea that the player character got injured in 1st person games, and in an RTS there is no player character so it doesn't make sense. About this, it wouldn't work like that, but like minimap indicator. It would basically show you where is attack like minimap, and point it out on screen. | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19216 Posts
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
Maybe it would be useful for lower level players, so the motive behind it is good | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 18 2016 21:35 BisuDagger wrote: It would be okay if there was an option to turn it off. I think at the highest level it is a distraction. Imagine the Nerchio game where he attacked at 4 locations. It is much more important he looks at the minimap then has 4 different parts of the screen glowing. I'm no pro and maybe I'm old school, but I would rather have it off. Army warning: - full warning(what is shown) - light warning(what someone wrote, only small arrows) - map only warning(what I would love) - off(your setting :-)) I think everybody could take what is their desire :-) On May 18 2016 21:46 mGGrinehart wrote: Because there isn't a "single character" that a player controls I don't really think it fits agree with sc2. It could get really messy when shit gets real in the midgame. Imagine Terran dropping everywhere and everything flashing red. Plus the information is already conveyed on the minimap and with sounds. Maybe it would be useful for lower level players, so the motive behind it is good Hmm, actually the red color would be wonderful. I cannot count how many games I lost to a drop + some light harass. Because the "announcer" was silent as the only thing I heard was "we cannot hold" and then I realized I do not have workers. (meaning I haven't heard "your workers are under attack" message) The red warning on a map would be a miracle for me. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
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iLovePartinG
20 Posts
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Bastinian
Serbia177 Posts
Because the "announcer" was silent as the only thing I heard was "we cannot hold" and then I realized I do not have workers. Yes this is also a huge problem, and one of reasons why I suggested this. | ||
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IIEclipseII
Germany157 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
I cannot count how many games I lost to a drop + some light harass. Because the "announcer" was silent as the only thing I heard was "we cannot hold" and then I realized I do not have workers. (meaning I haven't heard "your workers are under attack" message) This is one of the biggest problems with sc2 sound and why you can not trust audio. I'm not a fan of this idea in particular but i would like some more audio and minimap settings | ||
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TelecoM
United States10667 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
On May 19 2016 15:48 GGzerG wrote: Once you play StarCraft long enough, this is called Star Senses, I already sense / feel / see that indicator above just from years of experience. You can stare at the minimap 24/7 and pick up on these things, but having a sound such as "your workers are under attack" and/or a visual effect makes it much easier to play well. We react faster and more cleanly to audio especially when there is a lot of visual information or your eyes are busy - you can only look at one thing at a time, but you can use your eyes and ears simultaneously. We have audio warnings in the game already for exactly this reason but they don't always play so it's not possible to rely on them 100% | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2622 Posts
Plus, this is what spacebar is for (if you use it...) | ||
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
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Judgement
Netherlands152 Posts
Imo starcraft requires you to do multiple things inside and outside the game, why do you want things that take those things away that makes the game so great? I mean it would be ok if they made this possible in a custom game with options. That you could have a checkbox where you can check it. But not for (ladder)games. | ||
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Chidoriiiii
United States21 Posts
Note: If I'm wrong on this, it's because I've played too many games and (at this point) I subconsciously click the minimap | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
Because SC2 is NOT TOO EASY, get over with this stupid argument. It's still way to hard for the vast majority of people and that's the main reason for its limited success. Any small improvement helps, all these ideas should be discussed, refined and then repeatedly pitched to Blizzard on their forums. | ||
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DalaiiLameR
42 Posts
so imagine, youre in your mainbase and get that alert. what will you do? best option would be to look at the minimap, to see, how far away this signal is coming from and click on the minimap. you would allrdy do this without this strange alert. OR would you just scroll up and waste about 4-5 seconds, till your screen is in the alert zone? lol. this is good for games, where you only control one unit, but for a rts game, its just bullsh...t no need for this. ps: and your first reaction to a "youre attacked" alert is to jump to that location with e.g. space anyway, so you dont even have to look on the minimap to see where its comingi from. | ||
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Judgement
Netherlands152 Posts
On May 19 2016 16:51 opisska wrote: TL should detect when people write "the game is already too easy" in a SC2 forum and hide SC2 forums from such user, permanently redirect them to BW forums. Moreover, it could also try to hack into the user's computer, uninstall SC2 and install BW with Fish predefined and make his homepage some Introduction to Hangul website. Because SC2 is NOT TOO EASY, get over with this stupid argument. It's still way to hard for the vast majority of people and that's the main reason for its limited success. Any small improvement helps, all these ideas should be discussed, refined and then repeatedly pitched to Blizzard on their forums. Maybe some players that play Starcraft 2 like the fact that Starcraft 2 isn't that easy. People like different things in life, just because people that play in lower leagues find things hard doesn't mean a CORE mechanic(looking at the minimap) of a game has to change. And the argument that a game is hard and therefor has no major succes is a silly one at best. Look at Dark Souls, that is a hard game however it enjoys major succes. Lowering the skill ceiling doesn't increase the number of players that is going to try the game. This was tested with removing other core mechanics during the Beta, removing injecting, and this was not really a succes the barrier between players was somewhat removed and this didn't improve the gameplay. To quote the words of a wise man "Git gud!", don't get angry at the game that you are not good at certain aspects of the game, improve adapt evolve. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On May 19 2016 17:29 Judgement wrote: Maybe some players that play Starcraft 2 like the fact that Starcraft 2 isn't that easy. People like different things in life, just because people that play in lower leagues find things hard doesn't mean a CORE mechanic(looking at the minimap) of a game has to change. And the argument that a game is hard and therefor has no major succes is a silly one at best. Look at Dark Souls, that is a hard game however it enjoys major succes. Lowering the skill ceiling doesn't increase the number of players that is going to try the game. This was tested with removing other core mechanics during the Beta, removing injecting, and this was not really a succes the barrier between players was somewhat removed and this didn't improve the gameplay. To quote the words of a wise man "Git gud!", don't get angry at the game that you are not good at certain aspects of the game, improve adapt evolve. So are you agreeing with him? | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On May 19 2016 17:26 DalaiiLameR wrote: it would do nothing but being rly annoying. so imagine, youre in your mainbase and get that alert. what will you do? best option would be to look at the minimap, to see, how far away this signal is coming from and click on the minimap. you would allrdy do this without this strange alert. OR would you just scroll up and waste about 4-5 seconds, till your screen is in the alert zone? lol. this is good for games, where you only control one unit, but for a rts game, its just bullsh...t no need for this. ps: and your first reaction to a "youre attacked" alert is to jump to that location with e.g. space anyway, so you dont even have to look on the minimap to see where its comingi from. I disagree. People new to the franchise should have sth familiar to cling on to until they get used to the mechanics. And they can always make that bloody red thing less bloody and more neat if that's what people want. | ||
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SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
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Judgement
Netherlands152 Posts
So are you agreeing with him? No I am just saying that you shouldn't force your opinion on to people just because you disagree with them. All I am saying is that some mechanics are corner stone of a RTS game. Such as looking at the minimap to detect attacks. And the dumbing down of the game is not something that Blizzard should focus on, this has proven IMO already not something that people want to happen. I mean it could be an option in everything besides ladder and tournaments. If for instance they want to do this in CO-OP or Campaign or an option in Custom Games between friends sure why not, hell if they do it for people in bronze/silver great. But don't force this on people that want to enjoy the harder parts of the game. Which I assume are people that play this game purely for the competion part of the game. | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On May 19 2016 15:58 Brutaxilos wrote: I say no because I pretty much just think this isn't that big of an issue. If you're a bad player, chances are your opponent won't be doing THAT many multiprong attacks anyways. And if you're a good player, then you'll be used to it already. Plus, this is what spacebar is for (if you use it...) The problem is frustration for not being able to do sth about it. And I assure you, I feel much better if I at least recognized that there was a drop happening the realizing it 5 secs too late and cost the whole game bc of it. | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On May 19 2016 17:40 Judgement wrote: No I am just saying that you shouldn't force your opinion on to people just because you disagree with them. All I am saying is that some mechanics are corner stone of a RTS game. Such as looking at the minimap to detect attacks. And the dumbing down of the game is not something that Blizzard should focus on, this has proven IMO already not something that people want to happen. I mean it could be an option in everything besides ladder and tournaments. If for instance they want to do this in CO-OP or Campaign or an option in Custom Games between friends sure why not, hell if they do it for people in bronze/silver great. But don't force this on people that want to enjoy the harder parts of the game. Which I assume are people that play this game purely for the competion part of the game. Then why don't we forbid it for higher leagues like hardcore mode in bf? | ||
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Judgement
Netherlands152 Posts
Then why don't we forbid it for higher leagues like hardcore mode in bf? I mean sure why not more options the better. But for instance if we make Platinum the league in which people can no longer have this option, what then happens? You have used this function and gotten into Platinium. But what happens now that you no longer have this function? You no longer have it at your disposal, so now what? You get more fustrated at the fact that you failed to notice a drop. If at this moment you have trouble with spotting something on the minimap, it is logical to ask for an "improvement" in the UI. But that doesn't make YOU better, you are asking for a tool to become better instead of training your eyes to spot small movements. Don't lay the blame at the game, blame yourself and become better. Instead of asking for tools that make it easier. But hey that is my "try-hard" opinion. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On May 19 2016 17:52 Judgement wrote: I mean sure why not more options the better. But for instance if we make Platinum the league in which people can no longer have this option, what then happens? You have used this function and gotten into Platinium. But what happens now that you no longer have this function? You no longer have it at your disposal, so now what? You get more fustrated at the fact that you failed to notice a drop. If at this moment you have trouble with spotting something on the minimap, it is logical to ask for an "improvement" in the UI. But that doesn't make YOU better, you are asking for a tool to become better instead of training your eyes to spot small movements. Don't lay the blame at the game, blame yourself and become better. Instead of asking for tools that make it easier. But hey that is my "try-hard" opinion. Yep, it would be frustrating, but I'd say less now bc your unit micro is now better along with your game knowledge so the learning curve won't be so high at the start anymore | ||
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
On May 19 2016 17:42 swissman777 wrote: Then why don't we forbid it for higher leagues like hardcore mode in bf? There would be zero reason to forbid it in higher leagues. If you're reacting to a Baneling drop when your Probes are already under attack, you're doing it wrong :D | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
On May 19 2016 16:51 opisska wrote: TL should detect when people write "the game is already too easy" in a SC2 forum and hide SC2 forums from such user, permanently redirect them to BW forums. Moreover, it could also try to hack into the user's computer, uninstall SC2 and install BW with Fish predefined and make his homepage some Introduction to Hangul website. Because SC2 is NOT TOO EASY, get over with this stupid argument. It's still way to hard for the vast majority of people and that's the main reason for its limited success. Any small improvement helps, all these ideas should be discussed, refined and then repeatedly pitched to Blizzard on their forums. Totally agree | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Quateras
Germany867 Posts
So please dont add it to sc2 :o | ||
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Djangoobie
13 Posts
For the hearing impaired and beginners it will help a lot. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
I say we implement it as a default feature. But the tryhard players that want to get into higher leagues will likely look up guides and stuff which hold all the settings information. Like the 51% mouse sensitivity and the enhanced pointer precision. Casual players don't pay attention to such details but tryhard players do. So implement it. The people that want to tryhard and improve will find the guides and resources to turn that feature off and work on minimap awareness instead. For example, some guides out there suggest playing without sound so that you're forced to rely on the minimap. In my super tryhard phase I jumped on that suggestion and played without sound to improve my minimap awareness and realize the importance of spreading Overlords for map vision. aka, default settings should be for casual players. Tryhard players will find the online resources and guides to know to turn it off. It's why most of us are on TL ya know. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
In RTS games it would cause a problem in my opinion, since in games where you control many things it's up to a player to divert attention to certain unit/building or situation. In some cases it's wise to ignore certain damage being dealt to the player while he's trying to do something else, so it's hardly needed. It might make sense for people with certain disabilities though, as mentioned by Djangoobie. International TL police would be a fine idea, maybe if the forums were purged from ultra-skilled casualphobic players by moving them to Brood War we, moderately-skilled players could have a say in these matters. | ||
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Senkii
Hungary37 Posts
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Apoteosis
Chile820 Posts
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readdyeddy
United States1 Post
You need to develop "Spatial Awareness", which these "HUD" will not allow you to learn. If you want to get "Better", you need to practice. Like, cheats doesn't make you a better player, experience does. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 20 2016 00:34 Apoteosis wrote: I think it's not a good idea because, you know, imagine some probe attacking a hatch... casuals will freak out. that's actually a good point | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44053 Posts
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Bastinian
Serbia177 Posts
It seems that a lot of people don't look onto this more deeply and rationally and that's a bit unfortunate. I would honestly like to see this implemented as it has many benefits. I mentioned it doesn't need to look exactly like I imagined on those preview pictures, it would perhaps be distracting, but making it visible and not overly distracting. I remember some RTS games had similar mechanics like this one, but I can't remember which ones, so it wouldn't be problematic for SC2 to have something similar. Also, having options to turn this on or off is also fine, as message alerts that scroll at left side of screen can be also turned on or off. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44053 Posts
On May 20 2016 03:45 Bastinian wrote: Im reading comments and a lot of people actually didn't give any valid feedback about this It's literally redundant, because you already get alerts that you're under attack. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
On May 20 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: It's literally redundant, because you already get alerts that you're under attack. Those alerts do not always work, which is a significant UI problem IMO. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44053 Posts
On May 20 2016 03:49 Cyro wrote: Those alerts do not always work, which is a significant UI problem IMO. You don't always get minimap/ sound alerts? Then that's a UI problem that should be fixed, rather than throwing in a redundant solution that may not work either. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
On May 20 2016 03:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: You don't always get minimap/ sound alerts? Then that's a UI problem that should be fixed, rather than throwing in a redundant solution that may not work either. Nobody always gets them, there are issues with the sound channels or the way that sounds overlap. You can have a zergling hit one of your pylons once while meanwhile 20 zerglings kill every probe at your natural and you'd never know from the audio because the first sound blocks the worker specific one from going off, etc. You have to rely on the minimap alone, which is inefficient use of UI (using ears and eyes is much better than using only eyes, especially since eyes can only focus on one narrow part of the screen at a time) This is one of a handful of issues that i've wanted fixed for 5 years but seems to go under the radar of most players | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
 You also have the same issue with multiple attacks resulting in only the first alert going off. I however agree that there's no harm in including these types of features if you can turn them off. If these type of features are detrimental to the learning of beginners and they actually care about that, then I'm sure they'll be able to find that information online. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On May 20 2016 01:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Aren't you supposed to pay attention to the minimap? I know in games like mobas and WOT watching the minimap is a skill for the elite lol. Instead of this i would have some cool tutorials explaining what the minimap is and why it's important. Maybe some tips on using it, like glancing over every few seconds, when you get "under attack" messages and so on. But i had no idea the minimap was an advanced feature for the try hards lol. The proposed idea is redundant, adds clutter and it's not helpful as knowing a direction is not enough in RTS, you need to know the exact location. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
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