Lilbow and his Approach to WCS Finals 2015 - Page 8

It's often said but it's not true. If he had lost three macro games, there would be no thread. If he had cheesed three times and Life had defended, there would be no thread. Inno said that he didn't prepare, but he looked good in his game, so nobody would claim that he was disrespectful for saying it.

INnoVation said he didn't practice much. But that's to HIS standard. We can't even say what constitutes much practice for him. He'd probably play 30 hours a week and say it wasn't much.

RvB

Netherlands6209 Posts

November 02 2015 19:41 GMT

#143

On November 03 2015 04:12 Incognoto wrote:
meh i'm getting annoyed at this thread

i don't personally care about lilbow (just a foreigner and a protoss player, says a lot really), but the guy did what none of the other drips did and won wcs. he went through a lot of good players.

to say that he was unprepared for the match is a stretch, since he had probably prepared some shit. we didn't see it because he got all-in'd three times in a row.

it's bad foresight on his part, but that's how it rolls. were his builds unsafe? maybe, maybe that's all he knew. maybe he figured that life would take him seriously and he'd get at least one game going the way he wanted. we'll never know and frankly who gives a shit.

foreigners are bad, so why not blame all foreigners for being bad instead of laying the blame on the ONE SINGLE foreigner who managed to make it, just because he didn't live up to your expectations versus one of the favorites to take the entire damn thing.

lol, calm yourselves

I agree. Lilbow fucked up but the rage is getting excessive.

Nebuchad

Switzerland12169 Posts

November 02 2015 19:42 GMT

#144

On November 03 2015 04:31 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

INnoVation said he didn't practice much. But that's to HIS standard. We can't even say what constitutes much practice for him. He'd probably play 30 hours a week and say it wasn't much.

So? He could have done more to prepare, he could have practiced "much" to HIS standard, but he didn't. I guess he didn't give it his all then. Do you feel "disrespected" as a viewer? Of course not.

malady

United States600 Posts

November 02 2015 19:45 GMT

#145

We always complain there are no foreigners and we get one in and look what happens lol what a joke.

Elentos

55511 Posts

November 02 2015 19:56 GMT

#146

On November 03 2015 04:42 Nebuchad wrote:

Show nested quote +

So? He could have done more to prepare, he could have practiced "much" to HIS standard, but he didn't. I guess he didn't give it his all then. Do you feel "disrespected" as a viewer? Of course not.

First off, INnoVation won, so clearly his practice was on point enough.

Secondly, he isn't on Twitter spouting unprofessional nonsense.

Makro

France16890 Posts

November 02 2015 19:59 GMT

#147

On November 03 2015 04:41 RvB wrote:

Show nested quote +

I agree. Lilbow fucked up but the rage is getting excessive.

now when lilbow is going to play he's going to attract more viewers

starcraft 2 is gonna be more alive than ever

lilbow acting for the good of the game, taking the throne of the bad cop

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

November 02 2015 20:00 GMT

#148

On November 03 2015 04:42 Nebuchad wrote:

Show nested quote +

So? He could have done more to prepare, he could have practiced "much" to HIS standard, but he didn't. I guess he didn't give it his all then. Do you feel "disrespected" as a viewer? Of course not.

When did he even say this? Do you mean his "after flying i had a little break" ?

But in the end it doesn't matter, Innovation is the best player in the world right now, if he says he didn't practice much he still will be more than competetive.
Lilbow on the other hand is the underdog going into blizzcon, BUT he is also the foreign hope for a lot of people who were excited about him (as foreigner) being there.
Saying he didn't give a shit is like a slap in the face for those people.
Personally i don't care for him because i always thought he is an overhyped player, but i can see why people are upset.

wtfishedoing

Austria8 Posts

November 02 2015 20:05 GMT

#149

Lilbow's attitude was very disappointing and it is definitely the main reason, why people are angry at him. But to say that the games have no part in this, would be simply not true.

When you go up against life, it is a no brainer to prepare for ling cheese plays. Especially when you have less exposure to them and their specific timings because you played quite a bit of LotV. Not checking your backdoor rocks on Moonlight Madness in a match of this importance against Life is not a reasonable risk to take. Still, maybe one could excuse this failure, if it wasn't for the other games.

But above all, Lilbow's excuses make no sense because you don't need very skilled practice partners to make sure that you are prepared against these kinds of strategies. He could have trained them with someone and he would have laugehd at Life's attempt to get these cheap wins. What's so disappointing is that Life's plays didn't surprise anyone but Lilbow. These games could have been easy wins. I could care less if he played too cautiously and lost a macro game as a result. Going down this easily against predictable cheese is really bad. And it is also embarrassing because Lilbow apparently couldn't be bothered to prepare for these basic things.

pure.Wasted

Canada4701 Posts

November 02 2015 20:08 GMT

#150

On November 03 2015 03:39 Dodgin wrote:
I'm wondering if the backlash would have been the same if one of the Korean players claimed this and then won their match.

I think this is more of a case of foreign player fans projecting their insecurities and lofty expectations onto their only hope, and taking his decision far too personally.

On November 03 2015 04:21 Nebuchad wrote:
It's often said but it's not true. If he had lost three macro games, there would be no thread. If he had cheesed three times and Life had defended, there would be no thread. Inno said that he didn't prepare, but he looked good in his game, so nobody would claim that he was disrespectful for saying it.

The difference is that when a Korean says they didn't practice, or didn't prepare much... we have absolutely no reason to believe them. Korean culture values both work ethic and modesty, two factors that make such statements extremely suspect. Case in point: Life says he doesn't prepare for Lilbow, then the match is over and Life admits to watching lots of Lilbow replays. (Life. Prepared for Lilbow.)

When Lilbow says it... and then sticks to the same story after the game is over... and other pros/commentators believe him completely... and TLO calls him out on the excuses...

Yeah, those are no longer comparable situations.

Lots of Koreans had to get fucked by the WCS system just so Lilbow could have a chance to show up in the Ro16, which by any objective global ranking, he did not deserve to. And all it would have taken to prevent a shitstorm, all the community wanted for the sacrifice to appear worthwhile, was for Lilbow to appear gracious and humble at the opportunity he had been charitably given by Blizzard. He appeared as ungracious and as unhumble as it was humanly possible to be, and continues to by saying "I could have beaten Life if I just practiced, it's his fault for cheesing." He shit all over the competition. He shit all over the WCS system that made his successes possible in the first place.

I hope Korean players know how many foreign fans find his behavior deplorable. I would hate for them to think any worse of our standards for competitive play and sportsmanlike behavior.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

November 02 2015 20:10 GMT

#151

On November 03 2015 04:59 Makro wrote:

Show nested quote +

now when lilbow is going to play he's going to attract more viewers

starcraft 2 is gonna be more alive than ever

lilbow acting for the good of the game, taking the throne of the bad cop

Nah, for that kind of thing you have to pull a ragequit. Showing up, getting walked over and go sight seeing. Will just make people switch streams the next time you play. After reminding you that you threw the chance of your life away of course, which will be a giant pain in the ass.

DSK

England1110 Posts

November 02 2015 20:25 GMT

#152

Ultimately it was disappointing, but I found it entertaining nonetheless, hearing Life shit talk Lilbow before seeing him walk all over Lilbow.

I feel for the fans that stayed up to watch him, and I really hope that his LotV practice will pay him dividends, because the community will crucify him if he doesn't do well.

neptunusfisk

2286 Posts

November 02 2015 20:28 GMT

#153

On November 03 2015 04:42 Nebuchad wrote:

Show nested quote +

So? He could have done more to prepare, he could have practiced "much" to HIS standard, but he didn't. I guess he didn't give it his all then. Do you feel "disrespected" as a viewer? Of course not.

the difference is that Innovation was already better than his opponent beforehand

and that his "not so much" probably is only the mandatory 12 hours a day with no extra hours, instead of two games in a month

Phredxor

New Zealand15076 Posts

November 02 2015 20:30 GMT

#154

I kinda hope he bombs out early at DH now just to see what a shit storm that will cause.

DarkPlasmaBall

United States44271 Posts

November 02 2015 20:42 GMT

#155

On November 03 2015 05:30 Phredxor wrote:
I kinda hope he bombs out early at DH now just to see what a shit storm that will cause.

He'll probably only play like 2 games before then. After all, I hear he wants to be REALLY set for when SC3 come out.

Wuster

1974 Posts

November 02 2015 20:43 GMT

#156

On November 03 2015 05:30 Phredxor wrote:
I kinda hope he bombs out early at DH now just to see what a shit storm that will cause.

You got it backwards, the real shit storm happens when he wins a tournament.

Tenks

United States3104 Posts

November 02 2015 20:43 GMT

#157

He's trying to be good at LotV before the Koreans have it figured out

CynicalDeath

Italy3375 Posts

November 02 2015 20:48 GMT

#158

On November 03 2015 05:43 Tenks wrote:
He's trying to be good at LotV before the Koreans have it figured out

..and in the week that it will take what will he do?

Nebuchad

Switzerland12169 Posts

November 02 2015 20:52 GMT

#159

Viper:
IIRC, Chobra asked how he felt about the match given that he's viewed as a favourite to ship it all. Inno said he didn't think it was going to be as easy as everyone claimed, because Zest is good and because he didn't practice a lot.

On November 03 2015 05:08 pure.Wasted wrote:
The difference is that when a Korean says they didn't practice, or didn't prepare much... we have absolutely no reason to believe them. Korean culture values both work ethic and modesty, two factors that make such statements extremely suspect.

You can tell an argument started from the conclusion when you read stuff like this. You think Inno said he didn't prepare much before he easily 3-0ed Zest out of "modesty"? Come on...

Also you touch on the problem yourself: you think it's true in the case of Lilbow. Why do you think that? Because the games looked bad. Welcome to the end of the line.

This notion that the games looking bad had nothing to do with why you feel disrespected by a player is kind of ridiculous.