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On September 24 2015 09:03 OtherWorld wrote:FINALLY so hyped for this Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 08:59 Tyrhanius wrote:
You really seem to have killed zerg :
Nerf larvas mecanism hard (less larvas per drones, only 4 larvas per hatch instead of 19), then you make all roach/hydras need more larvas. You nerf creep hard too. Actually nearly all zerg units nerfed, and worst.
On the other side you don't touch marines dps at all, nor reactor, and do a huge buff for bunker rush. You make VCS way powerful than drone/worker (buffing hard vcs pull). Then nearly all the terrans units gets some buff.
Nerf creep buff of speed, no vision anymore too, then nerf zergling speed, and only nerf of 0.25 hellion speed while you nerf of 0.45 + the 15% decreased of speed on creep, of course queen back to 3 range.
And you buff banshee too, more speed, less cost, less supply, faster to build, and of course you nerf queen range (banshee now outrange queen), nerf transfusion, nerf spores with evo requirement, and decrease detection range.
The most troll change is maybe baneling decreased dmg vs building, probably the terran bias hating baneling bust.
It's very hard work to do a mod of SC2, but sadly you seem to have just act as a terran player, it's just full of terran bias, and you don't seem to have a vision of Zerg gameplay, it just : i've removed all the things that annoys me when as terran i play vs a Zerg. As a Zerg myself, may I ask you if you played the mod? Granted, I played one of its first version, when it was still in alpha stages, but Zerg did feel really Zerg. A different kind of taste from SC2 Zerg, but a better taste.
Yeah i've played as zerg, the 1 supply cost allow you to have more units, but everyzerg units are slow, low range so easy too kite. There is no new micro things with zerg, but at the contrary, you just massing units with no micro potential.
And on the other side, your macro is way harder than in HOTS, you need to inject way more, you need 2 queen per hatch cause when inject is finished, one queen has not enough energy to inject again. Anyway while your macro need from you way more action, you're nerf hard with no stacking and less larvas per inject.
The creep spread is the most painful things, and you need to have a unit in front of to give vision, as with no vision, creep tumor can't spread. Anyway the bonus on creep is nerfed hard, and except queen, the other unit are as slow on than off creep.
Not for me, LOTV is even better.
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I personally dont like many of the changes. They might be better then LotV / HotS (in some regard) but definitely not enough. I just dislike blind nostalgia of bringing BW units back to SC2 just cause nostalgia. Instead of the Goliath, why not simply use the Warhound?
And why reintroduce the Dragoon? Why not use the Immortal instead?
Its just blind nostalgia in my opinion.
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On September 24 2015 02:12 EatingBomber wrote:
May I provide some feedback on the games/design?
Sure!
On September 24 2015 02:27 Starecat wrote:
Is it Starbow?
Nope, it's SCynergie. Not related at all.
On September 24 2015 03:59 GuoJing wrote:
And what do you think about the matchmaking for arcade games, which doesn't exist ?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/495143-sc2-the-community-and-balance-mods?page=2#37
On September 24 2015 05:48 UberNuB wrote:
With that said, it'd be nice to see some YouTube videos instead of just replays. It's hard to get a sense for how the game plays with so many changes, and I'd imagine lots of people browse TL when they don't have access to load up SC2+replays.
That was my initial plan, but I can't do it myself and didn't find someone who could. If anyone knows someone who would be willing to host those few games on his Twitch or Youtube channel, I gladly take it!
On September 24 2015 07:23 Xiphias wrote:
Flying e-bays work fine in Starbow, feel free to open the mod file from the editor via battle.net and copy over whatever you need. Same for making turrets.
Thanks, but the EB belongs to a set of objects which are irreparably and mysteriously locked in time. Any change I make to them is simply not applied at all. The flying EBay works fine in local but always bugged on BNet. Courtesy of dependencies or the extension mod, I don't know.
On September 24 2015 09:03 OtherWorld wrote:FINALLY so hyped for this Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 08:59 Tyrhanius wrote:
You really seem to have killed zerg :
Nerf larvas mecanism hard (less larvas per drones, only 4 larvas per hatch instead of 19), then you make all roach/hydras need more larvas. You nerf creep hard too. Actually nearly all zerg units nerfed, and worst.
On the other side you don't touch marines dps at all, nor reactor, and do a huge buff for bunker rush. You make VCS way powerful than drone/worker (buffing hard vcs pull). Then nearly all the terrans units gets some buff.
Nerf creep buff of speed, no vision anymore too, then nerf zergling speed, and only nerf of 0.25 hellion speed while you nerf of 0.45 + the 15% decreased of speed on creep, of course queen back to 3 range.
And you buff banshee too, more speed, less cost, less supply, faster to build, and of course you nerf queen range (banshee now outrange queen), nerf transfusion, nerf spores with evo requirement, and decrease detection range.
The most troll change is maybe baneling decreased dmg vs building, probably the terran bias hating baneling bust.
It's very hard work to do a mod of SC2, but sadly you seem to have just act as a terran player, it's just full of terran bias, and you don't seem to have a vision of Zerg gameplay, it just : i've removed all the things that annoys me when as terran i play vs a Zerg. As a Zerg myself, may I ask you if you played the mod? Granted, I played one of its first version, when it was still in alpha stages, but Zerg did feel really Zerg. A different kind of taste from SC2 Zerg, but a better taste.
When doing this, I knew I was doomed to get trolls looking for some irrelevant revenge because they're still mad at past discussions. Here we are. Anyway, haters gonna hate.
I had a “Player feedback” section planned but I skipped it; shouldn't have. So, in the future, for whoever wants to give feedback on the mod, please focus on the big picture: things such as…
- Do you find it fun to play
- How do the races feel
- How do the new/different units feel
- Do you like the flow/the dynamics of the games
- Does it feel strategic
- Etc.
Please do NOT:
- Come here to argue for the sake of arguing/start flame wars
- Discuss change X or Y in a vacuum, without the global context (or the other side in a given match-up)
- And above all, spare me the “BW 2.0” or “nostalgia” bull****.
If you don't like what's being done here or have some old grudges against me, please just turn back. Don't come here to bash or flame.
Thank you
I also collect replays of the mod, so if you want to share them, please do. Any race, any level, any format.
Thanks in advance!
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Do you use campaign or normal dependency as your basis?
(Answer might help on fixing those bugs. And good work on this, will be interesting to see how develops!)
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I want to play, where do I go?
On September 26 2015 01:01 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2015 05:48 UberNuB wrote:
With that said, it'd be nice to see some YouTube videos instead of just replays. It's hard to get a sense for how the game plays with so many changes, and I'd imagine lots of people browse TL when they don't have access to load up SC2+replays. That was my initial plan, but I can't do it myself and didn't find someone who could. If anyone knows someone who would be willing to host those few games on his Twitch or Youtube channel, I gladly take it!
gonna watch the replays and stream at the same time.
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Some initial feedback. Just played around with zerg a bit.
You've done a lot of work here and I am a tad ashamed that I have not tested more before ranting about stuff, but I have a really poor memory so I like to note things down whenever they are fresh on my mind.
You should probably find another model for the Viper if it's a ground unit, looks really odd with this model. Perhaps SB's defiler model or some model form the campaign.
The Frenzy ability on the Viper might be a good idea but it seems really bad for it's energy cost. It's 125 energy for making one unit slightly better for 15 seconds. Perhaps having this as an AoE or much less energy would be better.
I see you changed the carrier very little. You could link it to Ahli's BW carrier mod to give it its BW micro back.
I'll add more when I get time to test more. 
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On September 26 2015 03:53 Xiphias wrote:
Do you use campaign or normal dependency as your basis?
(Answer might help on fixing those bugs. And good work on this, will be interesting to see how develops!)
Both.  That's the problem.
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/613034Dpendances.jpg
I had pretty much never opened the editor before I started working on this, so at the beginning I was completely in the dark about how to do certain things. Rookie mistakes ensued. Eternal and despairing “too late,” when you learn en route something that you should have known at the beginning of the journey. 
On September 26 2015 03:56 404AlphaSquad wrote:
I want to play, where do I go?
Go to Custom games, then:
On September 16 2015 09:25 TheDwf wrote:
Pick the map of your choice, select “create with a mod,” search for “SCynergie” and apply.
On September 26 2015 03:56 404AlphaSquad wrote:
gonna watch the replays and stream at the same time.
Cool, could you please link to your channel once you're done? Thanks!
On September 26 2015 04:59 Xiphias wrote:
Some initial feedback. Just played around with zerg a bit.
You've done a lot of work here and I am a tad ashamed that I have not tested more before ranting about stuff, but I have a really poor memory so I like to note things down whenever they are fresh on my mind.
It's OK, there are a lot of changes anyway.
You should probably find another model for the Viper if it's a ground unit, looks really odd with this model. Perhaps SB's defiler model or some model form the campaign.
Initially it was my intention to use a Defiler's model, but I didn't know where to find it so I tried that ground version of the Viper. It does look odd at first but personally I like the hovering, snake-like movement. What looks weird is that Consume's green beam sometimes goes past the Viper's tail, presumably where the flying Viper's belly was.
The Frenzy ability on the Viper might be a good idea but it seems really bad for it's energy cost. It's 125 energy for making one unit slightly better for 15 seconds. Perhaps having this as an AoE or much less energy would be better.
Yup, it might lack some punch indeed but I first want to assess how strong the synergy is with Broodlords (or defensive positions with Lurkers/Spines; ultras are good candidates too). The idea was also that (a) Vipers couldn't immediately cast both spells in the same fight and (b) they can regenerate energy quite fast with Consume, so the high cost is less of a problem. Zergs can also hit a very high supply efficiency with some costly compositions, hence my caution.
I see you changed the carrier very little. You could link it to Ahli's BW carrier mod to give it its BW micro back.
I didn't particularly want it since it increases their practical range and thus power a lot. Even if the SC2 Carrier is unpleasant to micro when you're used to the SC1 technique, it also makes it more difficult for the Carrier player to permanently stay away from danger; so by accident it fits the general theme of a higher commitment from artillery (since the unit has to stay closer to the battlefield if the player wants the full damage output).
I'll add more when I get time to test more.
Thanks for your feedback! Much appreciated
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On September 27 2015 06:27 Cricketer12 wrote:
sounds like starbow
As a Starbow dev and a guy who tried this some. This is not even close to Starbow. Much closer to SC2 for sure. Starbow is basically 85% BW (made easier) and some other stuff added.
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On September 27 2015 06:42 Xiphias wrote:As a Starbow dev and a guy who tried this some. This is not even close to Starbow. Much closer to SC2 for sure. Starbow is basically 85% BW (made easier) and some other stuff added.
Yeah, and you can feel that they are not the same very quickly. I mean SCynergie keeps way more units from SC2 than SB, and SB uses an alternative pathing method while SCynergie keeps the SC2 pathing. It feels like SCynergie is really aimed at being what SC2 would have been in an alternative world, while SB is closer to StarCraft 1.5.
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Looks pretty nice. I do like some of the new units ravagers, adepts, and liberators. I think in the long run adding them would be nice.
The truth is that Blizzard hates the arcade and will never give it a ladder, so unfortunately its hard to reinstall the game just to try this.
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Zerg is no fun in this. I'm out.
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So, anybody online to play with?
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On September 29 2015 01:59 Big J wrote:So, anybody online to play with?
If you're still here I'm coming
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ill play some games, what channel?
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Chat: SCynergie
Europe server
kk?
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Still no custom lobbies with the recent changes :/
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EPT
