EPTGreatest Players of All Time: Part 3 - Page 7
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reviant
France7 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KA7Jn.jpg?1) | ||
Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
On April 26 2015 03:15 TheNewEra wrote: Who will be Nr 2? Life or MVP? Rank #1 is obviously taken by this beast. + Show Spoiler + Never 4get Zenex Cutter | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 26 2015 03:09 Gorlin wrote: While I agree that Polt and MMA are incredibly close, I don't entirely agree with your assessment/pairing of tournaments. Notably, this stood out to me: IPL 5 - 3rd - YoDa, Creator, loss to Leenock, Sniper, Bomber, loss to viOLet vs. GSL 2011 October - 1st - loss to Nestea, Happy, Mvp (Finals higher prestige) Iron Squid 1 - 1st - Jjakji, pre-Champion Life, loss to MaNa, aLive, Symbol You really think that 3rd at IPL 5 beats out a first in a GSL? Would like to hear more about this. Even the players MMA beat along the way are more impressive in my opinion, notably an Mvp in his prime at TvT. Honestly, I think WCS 2015 (which you said were unable to pair with anything, but doesn't add that much in terms of victories against top opponents) and IPL 5 is a reasonable matchup with GSL and Iron Squid. Furthermore, and I don't know if you addressed this anywhere, but your ranking seems to completely ignore team league results. Polt has essentially no results in this regard, while MMA was a team league monster at two seperate times (the driving force behind two GSTL wins and a big part of Acer's success in ATC. I think that easily pushes the comparison into MMA's favor. Ok Happy was a Top 5 TvT player, Mvp was Top 1 player. Jjakji was a top 10 T player by that point (he'd fallen off by that point), Life was maybe a top 20 Z (He didn't shoot up until months after this), aLive was a Top 5 T, Symbol was a Top 5 Z. Yoda was a Top 5 T, Creator was a Top 3 P, Sniper was Top 1 Player (This is when he won his GSL,), Bomber was Top 5 T (Playing at Top 3 T level). So MMA has: Top 5 TvT, Top 1, Top 10 T, Top 20 Z, Top 5 T, Top 5 Z. Polt had: Top 5 T, Top 3 P, Top 1, Top 5-3 T. Pretty close right? Then you include the relative increased skill over time (comparing GSL to IPL), include that this was at the prime of Bl/infestor era and then remember that Iron Squid was mostly played online and I felt it was even. | ||
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LA_Morello
Brazil143 Posts
I think I stopped following SC2 around 2013, maybe the standard changed? I remember Life was considered pretty good, why isn't he on this list? | ||
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Vari
United States532 Posts
On April 26 2015 01:22 sc2chronic wrote: ive read his criteria. (for anyone who hasnt and wants to, here it is: ( http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/482944-the-process-of-creating-the-top-15-greatest-list ) according to him, guys like herO, Hero, Bomber, and Parting should all be included in the list. id like to hear the explanation for that. there aren't infinite spots | ||
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
On April 26 2015 01:05 shiroiusagi wrote: When you told me that was seriously the first time I heard there was a word limit on a post, haha. Whaaaaaattt???? There is a word limit for these? | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
On April 26 2015 03:20 LA_Morello wrote: Well, I haven't followed the scene closely in a long time, but when I think of greatest SC2 players of all time I think of MC, NesTea, Mvp, MKP, DongRaeGu. I also remember Naniwa being the best foreigner. I think I stopped following SC2 around 2013, maybe the standard changed? I remember Life was considered pretty good, why isn't he on this list? He takes second on the list | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On April 26 2015 03:09 InExcelsis wrote: Yep the "HOLE" is you don't WIN a GSL you don't make top 5 that simple in my mind. Someone else already complained about it but putting Dreamhacks, and IEM's in the same boat as a GSL title is silly GSL needs to be its own tier and given more credit. So yeah following "his criteria" guess there isn't a hole and Taeja is properly placed but that still doesn't make it right at least imo. It is just silly cause if you ask any knowledgeable Starcraft player "Do you think Taeja is the 3rd best player ever?" I would venture to say 99% would say NO. He has 1 GSL top 4 finish in his life I'm sorry but I don't care how many IEM's,Dreamhacks, Homestory Cups, Asus ROG's you win if you don't win the hardest tournament you can't be top 5 all time. Stuchiu specifically compared tournaments to ones he believed were comparable. In the case of the GSLs, he took foreign tournaments Taeja won while beating relatively better players than MC beat on the path to winning his GSLs, and he rated those as equal. So yeah, he did rate GSLs more, and yet Taeja still came out ahead. If you think GSLs are better than everything else, no matter what, no matter the caliber of players you face, then you run into problems. Jjakji won a GSL. Seed won a GSL. Are they better than Taeja? Are they better than Polt? (whose GSL Super Tournament victory often isn't counted on the level of the others.) Is Mvp indisputably better than Life because he won more GSLs? Is Roro better than SoO? To add to this, Taeja has the best record in weekend tournaments of any pro player except perhaps Life, yet has won no GSLs. In comparing Taeja against ANY GSL champion, you will find that his record in weekend tournaments is head and shoulders above but his record in GSL is worse. At what point does the GSL start to push the other player over Taeja? Stuchiu thought about this, and decided that the caliber of players beaten on the path to a weekend tournament win needs to be significantly better to compare to a GSL, but can still compare. I assume (he didn't write it out) that he drew some line between quality of tournament runs to decide when they compared and when they did not. You have to make that decision at some point, and anyone claiming Taeja needs to be lower than 5th or even 10th needs to think about this. At what point do GSL victories cease to put another player ahead of Taeja? | ||
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 26 2015 03:23 Cricketer12 wrote: Whaaaaaattt???? There is a word limit for these? I wanted to do an aggregate post for the last part so people could peruse the entire list at once, but that broke the word limit. Then I tried just 1-5 and that also broke the word limit. | ||
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EmoryToss17
United States10 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17750 Posts
On April 26 2015 01:01 stuchiu wrote: Part 4 will come out in a week. I wanted to put all 5 this week, but I literally broke the word limit. Wait no way this is the word limit on OPs, my 2014 thread OP was 1.6 megabytes long, this OP is only 64 kilobytes. I guess these fancy news posts might have a lower limit for some reason. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On April 26 2015 01:17 Seeker wrote: THE WAITING IS KILLING ME!!! WHO IS #1 AND #2?!?!?! + Show Spoiler + j/k I already know  Avilo and Incontrol right? | ||
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HaloLegend98
United States54 Posts
Also they're #2 and #3 for winnings. . . So yeah | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 26 2015 02:32 Trizz wrote: Taeja over MC? 0 GSL wins vs 2 The Liquid Advantage. Taeja at 3 is a joke. Yeah imo Taeja is definitely overrated in ranking but he's such a fan favorite it doesn't matter. | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
7 premier wins for Polt and 11 for Taeja, $350k in earnings for Polt and $275k for Taeja, and you have Polt's Super Tournament win while Taeja doesn't have a Korean tournament win Taeja vs Polt is a complete toss-up for better career imo, even closer when you consider that Polt has 11 premier finals appearances to Taeja's 13, and 3 major tournament finals to Taeja's 0. (2 Lone Star Clashes and a Red Bull event) And MC is top 3 to me since he was the only Protoss to have any real success before the immortal range buff in October 2011. (also the change in map design that nerfed 1/1/1) Similarly Mvp is #1 for more or less inventing macro Terran when everyone else was doing gimmicky all-ins. | ||
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YuiHirasawa
Japan220 Posts
Polt #05 when all he did for 2 years was beating no name NA players and foreigners in international tourneys. Taeja above innovation, innovation #09, when he was so dominant for a set period of time that he was almost considered a bonjwa.. No inclusion of Stephano anywhere when he broke the game at least twice, in both wol and hots. Yeah, this ranking is biased at best. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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