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On January 18 2015 23:06 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 20:24 BaneRiders wrote:On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote:
10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed. Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?  There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed. You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series. Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
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United States33495 Posts
good work stuchiu, keeping SC2 alive
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On January 18 2015 23:37 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 23:06 boxerfred wrote:On January 18 2015 20:24 BaneRiders wrote:On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote:
10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed. Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose? There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed. You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series. Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there. would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
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On January 18 2015 23:21 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 23:17 rehnen wrote:On January 18 2015 13:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On January 18 2015 13:49 mYiKane wrote:On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft. Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough Let's hope. Just one week until Nerchio gives him a lesson in Swarm Host and we'll see how he handles that. You do know that if you had said that about any other player you would have been banned or at the very least warned. Naniwa bring controversy and is one of very, very few interesting people to watch in Sc2. The scene has been stale for a long ass time and we need some colorful characters. The scene doesnt need a rager of his caliber. He is an absolutely terrible person, who blames pretty much everything else than himself for losses. There is a reason why so many people dislike him greatly.
And yet nerchio is some kind of hero for people. Idra was also the same. The scene had a way larger amount of viewers when the "ragers" were active. I would argue that the scene needs controversy. The community always drum the controversial people out of the scene and then they sit and wonder why the scene seems so boring all of the sudden.
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I am obviously as biased as everyone else here, but I think people are mostly overreacting.
But he can obviously say some harsh things sometimes. Does he deserve to get crucified for it tho? I don't think so.
Obviously I am also very happy to have him back. And by the looks of it, thehype and excitement is over 9000 already!
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8751 Posts
Nani's response was severe but if we care about the level of severity then we're basically rewarding Kane for knowing what intensity of trash talk he's able to get away with. I think mean-spirited is mean-spirited and there's no honest and good argument for drawing the line somewhere specific. You can cut really deep with a very basic insult if you know it hits a sore spot of your victim. For all we know, Nani was hurt 10x more by Kane's comment than Kane was by Nani's. Either you're allowed to try to hurt other people with your words or you're not. How good you are at it and how well you can keep your comments "socially acceptable" are irrelevant. I feel like we're all playing some game by reaching a consensus that a certain comment is off limits.
We may as well cut the bullshit and start brainstorming some exchanges between players that'll get the most viewers. We want to maximize drama without driving people away with offensiveness and immaturity, while also not emphasizing these external storylines so much that we alienate the viewers who just want to focus on the games. I'm not a great writer so anyone else want to throw some stuff out there so we can get a rough draft to Blizzard before season one gets rolling?
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On January 18 2015 23:41 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 23:37 tar wrote:On January 18 2015 23:06 boxerfred wrote:On January 18 2015 20:24 BaneRiders wrote:On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote:
10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed. Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose? There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed. You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series. Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there. would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean? If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm. The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player. If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that. He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
Thanks, I had been confused by your wording then. All clear now.
Imho, Nani has the talent and the focus to be relevant in Korea - given he'd be training in a korean teamhouse. Don't know if Nani would get along with their strict in-house regimes though...
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
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On January 18 2015 13:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 13:49 mYiKane wrote:On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft. Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough Let's hope. Just one week until Nerchio gives him a lesson in Swarm Host and we'll see how he handles that.
Fuck this bullshit long live King Nani
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I don't care what everyone says about NaNiwa, but you can't take away the fact that he brings more viewers, more drama, more hype and everything else that SC2 needs in my opinion to be more succesfull again.
I don't like him as a person, but I admire his talent and bravery to do whatever it takes to get the win and succeed.
Please never retire again, NaNiwa. And if you do, come back just like this. I will never forget your two amazing Code S runs. Make that three sometime soon!
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On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote:
Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
Sorry, you heard it from TL's master of simple, often incomplete sentences, stuchiu: Naniwa == Vortix. History rewritten.
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NaNiwa came from retirement to qualify to WCS in the first qualifier in which he participated. From retirement! Can't wait to see him play ForGG in the finals. He is the best foreigner of all time. And everyone just hates him because sometimes he calles it like it is. Big news everyone: the truth sometimes hurts! Really glad NaNiwa is back. Huge plus for the foreign scene! GoGo NaNiwa!
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Omg i love this, the drama around and everything, it is just as important than the game itself imo. I stopped watching and playing sc2, not only because of Naniwa but mostly, it has been so fucking boring scene after that, we need more persons like this. That being said i dont agree with everything he does, says or thinks, for an example, i was mad as hell when he forfeited at katowice, and then he said he had played lol in the hotelroom and not practicing anything at what he should have, that made me pissed and i said to hell with Naniwa, but well i guess it's forgotten now and we have to move on. Seing him coming back made up for it, more than enough.
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Oh nice. Nani got skillz man. Love the way he gets so many people salty also haha.
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On January 18 2015 23:55 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 23:41 boxerfred wrote:On January 18 2015 23:37 tar wrote:On January 18 2015 23:06 boxerfred wrote:On January 18 2015 20:24 BaneRiders wrote:On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote:
10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed. Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose? There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed. You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series. Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there. would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean? If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm. The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player. If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that. He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it. [...] Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean".
There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean.
Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
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We need a NaNicam during the entire season of WCS; always showing us what he's up to while other matches are going on. Preferably, Stuichu could be sitting in the ESL studio, researching the NaNiwebs for NaNi stuff live.
If Zlatan gets one on Swedish Tv, NaNiwa should have one on ESL.
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On January 19 2015 00:02 Naikonz wrote:
NaNiwa came from retirement to qualify to WCS in the first qualifier in which he participated. From retirement! Can't wait to see him play ForGG in the finals. He is the best foreigner of all time. And everyone just hates him because sometimes he calles it like it is. Big news everyone: the truth sometimes hurts! Really glad NaNiwa is back. Huge plus for the foreign scene! GoGo NaNiwa!
That's like the best "bait boxerfred into tempban" post I've ever seen. Congrats on that.
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On January 19 2015 00:07 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 00:02 Naikonz wrote:
NaNiwa came from retirement to qualify to WCS in the first qualifier in which he participated. From retirement! Can't wait to see him play ForGG in the finals. He is the best foreigner of all time. And everyone just hates him because sometimes he calles it like it is. Big news everyone: the truth sometimes hurts! Really glad NaNiwa is back. Huge plus for the foreign scene! GoGo NaNiwa! That's like the best "bait boxerfred into tempban" post I've ever seen. Congrats on that.
Meh, it didn't succeed.. 
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On January 19 2015 00:08 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 00:07 boxerfred wrote:On January 19 2015 00:02 Naikonz wrote:
NaNiwa came from retirement to qualify to WCS in the first qualifier in which he participated. From retirement! Can't wait to see him play ForGG in the finals. He is the best foreigner of all time. And everyone just hates him because sometimes he calles it like it is. Big news everyone: the truth sometimes hurts! Really glad NaNiwa is back. Huge plus for the foreign scene! GoGo NaNiwa! That's like the best "bait boxerfred into tempban" post I've ever seen. Congrats on that. Meh, it didn't succeed..
That guy's bait was good, but it wasn't NaNiwa-good.
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On January 19 2015 00:06 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 23:55 tar wrote:On January 18 2015 23:41 boxerfred wrote:On January 18 2015 23:37 tar wrote:On January 18 2015 23:06 boxerfred wrote:On January 18 2015 20:24 BaneRiders wrote:On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote:
10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed. Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose? There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed. You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series. Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there. would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean? If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm. The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player. If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that. He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it. [...] Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break. I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean". There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean. Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
eh? Before KeSPA players joined Sc2 there was not that huge a gap between the best Koreans and best foreigners. I remember Jinro getting to ro4 in GSL and other players making ro8. Surely getting that far into competitions means you can compete with them?
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EPT
