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Hello!
I am the Zerg player Carnage from NA. Last night, I participated in Graham "Rifkin" Rogers' (BaseTradeTV) tournament "The Fight Before Christmas" (TFBC).
Here is the context to what I will be explaining in this post: http://imgur.com/bbTCJdj,IGOoePW
I'd also like to preface this with the fact that the account 'Deezer' was removed from the tournament before start time based on his reputation as a hacker.
What happened was that I was up against an account that is at the top of the current NA SCII ladder as Zerg. My opponent played as Protoss and would not reveal his identity to me as he used a barcode account (IIIIIIIIII).
I raised this issue to the admins who told me it wasn't required for players to disclose their information (which doesn't really make sense to begin with in a professional tournament) so I brought it up to Rifkin who said that this was not true.
I go back to my opponent and demand to know his alias and he/she proceeds to give me the answer 'Daniel' and then later 'CombatEX'. I ask the admin to follow up on this and the admin concluded that this was indeed CombatEX via real id (Wasif Khan).
This was not the case as it is improbable for this account to be played on by CombatEX. There had been no news from him about playing SCII, especially this entire time as a Zerg player who can easily take the rank 1 spot on ladder. Regardless, I went ahead and played the series (this was my error).
I lose the series 1-2 in a suspicious manner that I brought up the admins (possibly hacking involved/ 3rd party software) and they investigate during this barcode player's next series. Despite these allegations, the barcode player was allowed to proceed in the tournament against Gemini.
After his next series vs Gemini: http://challonge.com/tfbcna
Gemini also brought accusations of hacking to the table. After further investigation, the barcode account was disqualified due to a conflict of identity and Gemini was moved forward in the bracket even though my line of brackets was the only one remaining in the entire tournament. Therefore, myself and Mystery were unfairly passed over.
I believe that this is unjust as I had the potential as much as any other player in this tournament to qualify and deserve the chance to prove so.
While the tournament has been set in stone as of now, I want to echo the lesson to other tournament organizers as well as Rifkin to verify the participants of their tournaments much like more reputable offline tournaments do so that this incident does not happen to future players like myself who practice long hours to be wrongfully dismissed.
Thank you eSports community,
Fil 'Carnage' Donskoy
Also, here are replays if you want to see for yourself if my opponent was using blink hack (Game 1 & Game 3. selecting all stalkers and blinking one at a time without staggering cooldowns) or any other 3rd party software:
Game 1 (Overgrowth): http://drop.sc/390197
Game 2 (Foxtrot Labs): http://drop.sc/390196
Game 3 (Merry Go Round): http://drop.sc/390195
Unfortunately I don't have Gemini's replays, but I've viewed them and seen that his/my opponent went exactly to a proxy spot with his main army without having any scouting (no it wasn't along the way either just a b line to the pylon/sg).
TL;DR: Carnage (me) should have been able to have a chance to play forward in the bracket just as the participant above me had and that all tournament organizers should look closely at who it is that is signing up for their tournaments especially now in a time where hacking is more popular than ever.
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wow i knew it! i played that guy a bunch of times, I thought it was violet since his Zerg winrate is extremely high. Turns out another potential hacker......
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I watched the games on Carnage's stream. Another shocking thing about the games was how poorly the potential hacker played during all three games. Because he at the top of GM I expected his play to be very crisp and for carnage to have a tough time. But if you watch the replays you can see how many units he doesn't micro/how much he floats and how he has 100 energy on his nexus most of the time. The only impressive plays by him when I was watching the stream were his amazing blink micro and his "game sense"
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Blizzard needs to get rid of "barcode aka llllllllllllll" on ladder and everywhere imo. There's too many of these guys now that are blatant cheaters using the anonymity it provides to hide themselves easier.
Used to be pr0s would use barcodes...but it doesn't really seem that way anymore =/
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I think it would be hard for BaseTradeTV to veto everyone who signs up. They don't exactly have the manpower of ESL!
If the concensus was that he's a cheat I hope you've contacted blizzard with all the relevant information.
I can fully understand why you're unhappy with the situation though.
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I have had this happen to me before, and unfortunately I don't think the tournament organizers even did the wrong thing here, you shouldn't have kept playing, that was your biggest mistake there. Since you kept playing, the fact that they advanced Gemini and not you is irrelevant...if you wouldn't of kept playing maybe you would of either
A)Got advanced / barcode disqualified
B)Got kicked, which would of been better than losing 1-2 to a hacker (maybe?)
Point is that it isn't the tournament organizers fault completely, the title is very misleading, majority of it is your fault for continuing the series, but regardless I agree that the map hacking is ridiculous, and they could have been a little more professional about handling this situation.
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On December 12 2014 13:09 GGzerG wrote:
I have had this happen to me before, and unfortunately I don't think the tournament organizers even did the wrong thing here, you shouldn't have kept playing, that was your biggest mistake there. Since you kept playing, the fact that they advanced Gemini and not you is irrelevant...if you wouldn't of kept playing maybe you would of either
A)Got advanced / barcode disqualified
B)Got kicked, which would of been better than losing 1-2 to a hacker (maybe?)
Point is that it isn't the tournament organizers fault completely, the title is very misleading, majority of it is your fault for continuing the series, but regardless I agree that the map hacking is ridiculous, and they could have been a little more professional about handling this situation.
I disagree, if carnage hadn't finished his/her series, and if gemini hadn't finished his/her series, then there's far less evidence and support to prove their accusations of hacking. Map hacking isn't always blatantly obvious and having played 1 or 2 games is hardly conclusive. In fact I'd even argue 2 series of bo3 as inconclusive.
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I don't think it was your error to continue playing... And even if you do so, why on Earth did they ignore your case and allowed the next player (Gemini) to advance? This decision would be understanable if you haven't brought this issue to the table on time, but you did, so it's really a shame you got left out.
Good luck next time 
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The title is sort of stupid. I honestly don't think BasetradeTV did anything really wrong. It's incredibly difficult to manage tons and tons of games going on, especially when they are earlier-round games (more games).
It obviously sucks, but you seem to be taking it out on the organizers way too much here...
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(Hi guys, Rifkin here) What I could do, what I want to do is assume the persona everyone has given me of being this massively negative condescending prick, and go on the attack about your entitlement issues. But I won't, instead I'm going to explain this situation as best I can. If you still have issues, you are welcome to never compete in anything we run again :-)
- 1 - The folks helping run the tournament were 100% volunteers (2 of our subscribers) who had absolutely zero experience regarding challonge, brackets in general, or handling issues in game. I'll go more into the "Y U NO HIRE PPL" below, but understand a lot of their decision making was poor communication from the fact that I was casting games at the same time and could not dedicate time to them to help handle the issues.
- 2 - The qualifier itself was plagued with ridiculous bad fortune. The first day I had no power, and our admin had no internet so we had to shift it to the following day, coupled with the fact that our primary bracket site (BinaryBeast) died for no reason in the morning, this caused a LOT of confusion for everyone involved. The same admin also became unavailable at the last moment.
- 3 - "Well fuck you, if you can have a 4k prize pool why can't you hire admins?" Well, fuck you, where do you think this prize pool comes from? Thin air? We're not exactly flush with cash after dumping everything into the prize pool, but just so you're aware we have been paying admins $25 per qualifier recently, and most of them are folks who work at Dreamhack, or have experience, such as Olimoley, handling players and brackets. I have a plethora of contacts who can do this job adequately however 3-5PM in North America = Sleep time in the rest of the world, and through bad luck zero people were available for this qualifier.
- 4 - It was late when this issue became a made aware to us. Casting the EU Qualifier started at 10 AM and it was around 9 PM at this point. We had several players (unnamed, but thanks to all) looking at the replays, and when it was deemed that it was for sure hacking we said "Fuck him, let's move on" because at this point (had we back tracked to include you both back into the tournament) it would have drawn the tournament out even longer, and if we're going to be honest the next two opponents were Astrea (one of the best NA protoss players) and Kane (Just won the NA group). You probably weren't going to beat either of these players and I deemed it literally not worth ours or the viewers time to give the extra 1-2 hours any additional consideration.
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum.
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On December 12 2014 13:55 BasetradeTV wrote:
(Hi guys, Rifkin here) What I could do, what I want to do is assume the persona everyone has given me of being this massively negative condescending prick, and go on the attack about your entitlement issues.
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You probably weren't going to beat either of these players and I deemed it literally not worth ours or the viewers time to give the extra 1-2 hours any additional consideration.
Why don't you just take this post as constructive criticism instead of proving how much of a condescending prick you can be.
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On December 12 2014 13:55 BasetradeTV wrote:
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum.
whats the point of an open bracket qualifier then, u might as well just weed out all the "unknown ppl" and make it an invite only
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On December 12 2014 13:55 BasetradeTV wrote:(Hi guys, Rifkin here) What I could do, what I want to do is assume the persona everyone has given me of being this massively negative condescending prick, and go on the attack about your entitlement issues. But I won't, instead I'm going to explain this situation as best I can. If you still have issues, you are welcome to never compete in anything we run again :-) - 1 - The folks helping run the tournament were 100% volunteers (2 of our subscribers) who had absolutely zero experience regarding challonge, brackets in general, or handling issues in game. I'll go more into the "Y U NO HIRE PPL" below, but understand a lot of their decision making was poor communication from the fact that I was casting games at the same time and could not dedicate time to them to help handle the issues.
- 2 - The qualifier itself was plagued with ridiculous bad fortune. The first day I had no power, and our admin had no internet so we had to shift it to the following day, coupled with the fact that our primary bracket site (BinaryBeast) died for no reason in the morning, this caused a LOT of confusion for everyone involved. The same admin also became unavailable at the last moment.
- 3 - "Well fuck you, if you can have a 4k prize pool why can't you hire admins?" Well, fuck you, where do you think this prize pool comes from? Thin air? We're not exactly flush with cash after dumping everything into the prize pool, but just so you're aware we have been paying admins $25 per qualifier recently, and most of them are folks who work at Dreamhack, or have experience, such as Olimoley, handling players and brackets. I have a plethora of contacts who can do this job adequately however 3-5PM in North America = Sleep time in the rest of the world, and through bad luck zero people were available for this qualifier.
- 4 - It was late when this issue became a made aware to us. Casting the EU Qualifier started at 10 AM and it was around 9 PM at this point. We had several players (unnamed, but thanks to all) looking at the replays, and when it was deemed that it was for sure hacking we said "Fuck him, let's move on" because at this point (had we back tracked to include you both back into the tournament) it would have drawn the tournament out even longer, and if we're going to be honest the next two opponents were Astrea (one of the best NA protoss players) and Kane (Just won the NA group). You probably weren't going to beat either of these players and I deemed it literally not worth ours or the viewers time to give the extra 1-2 hours any additional consideration.
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum.
What good is a 4k prize pool if your tournament fails to uphold the basic integrities required of a fair competition? You failed to administrate this matter, and it's embarrassing that you can't even own up to it. Spouting nonsense like "he wouldn't have a shot in the next round anyway" is ridiculous and undermines the entire point of competition. Why not just hand out medals to the top 10 ladder heroes instead? Or maybe the player with the biggest twitter following?
Saying that you run on volunteer labor/it was late/ the cat shit the rug/ etc, isn't relevant and does not excuse your behavior. Everyone knows that running an event is hard so it's up to you as the head admin to take the full responsibility for shortcomings and figure out how to make your product better in the future.
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On December 12 2014 14:12 Erik.TheRed wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 13:55 BasetradeTV wrote:(Hi guys, Rifkin here) What I could do, what I want to do is assume the persona everyone has given me of being this massively negative condescending prick, and go on the attack about your entitlement issues. But I won't, instead I'm going to explain this situation as best I can. If you still have issues, you are welcome to never compete in anything we run again :-) - 1 - The folks helping run the tournament were 100% volunteers (2 of our subscribers) who had absolutely zero experience regarding challonge, brackets in general, or handling issues in game. I'll go more into the "Y U NO HIRE PPL" below, but understand a lot of their decision making was poor communication from the fact that I was casting games at the same time and could not dedicate time to them to help handle the issues.
- 2 - The qualifier itself was plagued with ridiculous bad fortune. The first day I had no power, and our admin had no internet so we had to shift it to the following day, coupled with the fact that our primary bracket site (BinaryBeast) died for no reason in the morning, this caused a LOT of confusion for everyone involved. The same admin also became unavailable at the last moment.
- 3 - "Well fuck you, if you can have a 4k prize pool why can't you hire admins?" Well, fuck you, where do you think this prize pool comes from? Thin air? We're not exactly flush with cash after dumping everything into the prize pool, but just so you're aware we have been paying admins $25 per qualifier recently, and most of them are folks who work at Dreamhack, or have experience, such as Olimoley, handling players and brackets. I have a plethora of contacts who can do this job adequately however 3-5PM in North America = Sleep time in the rest of the world, and through bad luck zero people were available for this qualifier.
- 4 - It was late when this issue became a made aware to us. Casting the EU Qualifier started at 10 AM and it was around 9 PM at this point. We had several players (unnamed, but thanks to all) looking at the replays, and when it was deemed that it was for sure hacking we said "Fuck him, let's move on" because at this point (had we back tracked to include you both back into the tournament) it would have drawn the tournament out even longer, and if we're going to be honest the next two opponents were Astrea (one of the best NA protoss players) and Kane (Just won the NA group). You probably weren't going to beat either of these players and I deemed it literally not worth ours or the viewers time to give the extra 1-2 hours any additional consideration.
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum. What good is a 4k prize pool if your tournament fails to uphold the basic integrities required of a fair competition? You failed to administrate this matter, and it's embarrassing that you can't even own up to it. Spouting nonsense like "he wouldn't have a shot in the next round anyway" is ridiculous and undermines the entire point of competition. Why not just hand out medals to the top 10 ladder heroes instead? Or maybe the player with the biggest twitter following? Saying that you run on volunteer labor/it was late/ the cat shit the rug/ etc, isn't relevant and does not excuse your behavior. Everyone knows that running an event is hard so it's up to you as the head admin to take the full responsibility for shortcomings and figure out how to make your product better in the future.
Please, teach me more from your first hand experience in these matters
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I can understand his sentiments, but wow, what a massively negative condescending prick
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On December 12 2014 14:15 BasetradeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 14:12 Erik.TheRed wrote:On December 12 2014 13:55 BasetradeTV wrote:(Hi guys, Rifkin here) What I could do, what I want to do is assume the persona everyone has given me of being this massively negative condescending prick, and go on the attack about your entitlement issues. But I won't, instead I'm going to explain this situation as best I can. If you still have issues, you are welcome to never compete in anything we run again :-) - 1 - The folks helping run the tournament were 100% volunteers (2 of our subscribers) who had absolutely zero experience regarding challonge, brackets in general, or handling issues in game. I'll go more into the "Y U NO HIRE PPL" below, but understand a lot of their decision making was poor communication from the fact that I was casting games at the same time and could not dedicate time to them to help handle the issues.
- 2 - The qualifier itself was plagued with ridiculous bad fortune. The first day I had no power, and our admin had no internet so we had to shift it to the following day, coupled with the fact that our primary bracket site (BinaryBeast) died for no reason in the morning, this caused a LOT of confusion for everyone involved. The same admin also became unavailable at the last moment.
- 3 - "Well fuck you, if you can have a 4k prize pool why can't you hire admins?" Well, fuck you, where do you think this prize pool comes from? Thin air? We're not exactly flush with cash after dumping everything into the prize pool, but just so you're aware we have been paying admins $25 per qualifier recently, and most of them are folks who work at Dreamhack, or have experience, such as Olimoley, handling players and brackets. I have a plethora of contacts who can do this job adequately however 3-5PM in North America = Sleep time in the rest of the world, and through bad luck zero people were available for this qualifier.
- 4 - It was late when this issue became a made aware to us. Casting the EU Qualifier started at 10 AM and it was around 9 PM at this point. We had several players (unnamed, but thanks to all) looking at the replays, and when it was deemed that it was for sure hacking we said "Fuck him, let's move on" because at this point (had we back tracked to include you both back into the tournament) it would have drawn the tournament out even longer, and if we're going to be honest the next two opponents were Astrea (one of the best NA protoss players) and Kane (Just won the NA group). You probably weren't going to beat either of these players and I deemed it literally not worth ours or the viewers time to give the extra 1-2 hours any additional consideration.
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum. What good is a 4k prize pool if your tournament fails to uphold the basic integrities required of a fair competition? You failed to administrate this matter, and it's embarrassing that you can't even own up to it. Spouting nonsense like "he wouldn't have a shot in the next round anyway" is ridiculous and undermines the entire point of competition. Why not just hand out medals to the top 10 ladder heroes instead? Or maybe the player with the biggest twitter following? Saying that you run on volunteer labor/it was late/ the cat shit the rug/ etc, isn't relevant and does not excuse your behavior. Everyone knows that running an event is hard so it's up to you as the head admin to take the full responsibility for shortcomings and figure out how to make your product better in the future. Please, teach me more from your first hand experience in these matters
Yes very logical response, because I'm not a tournament admin I clearly must not be capable of criticism. I have a feeling that your long-term success and viewership will speak for itself though.
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Christ some of you need to take several chill pills.
Extenuating circumstance, which I'm betting were unprecidented for BaseTradeTV occured all at once.
This is the first time this has happened, and I hope the last. If you want to focus your anger somewhere, do it at the asswipe cheat causing this bullshit. Not the casters who do a SHIT load of great content for you FREE.
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[B]
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum.
In other words...take what i give you, and shut up. That's the impression i get with this reply. Whats so wrong with admitting fault now a days?
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I mean fuck me guys, how many great matches have we all watched on Basetrade? Can you not think of this before ranting?
I can understand how Carnage isn't happy, I would not be either!
Focus your wrath on the cheats who screw this scene, not the casters who give you free content.
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Yeah let's cut out the passive aggressiveness ("you are welcome to never compete in anything we run again :-)"). I agree with Erik here.
Look, it's great what you do for the scene and believe me with all the viewers and followers you get it's well deserved, but just because it's your tournament doesn't mean you can throw the integrity of the competition out the window. You can't just say "he probably wouldn't have won." Yes true, but come on, for players that want to make it big in the scene, NA is scarce enough in events, which is where things like this come in extra important. You can't just dismiss people like that, if this happened during CJ Sora's WCG Korea run, most people wouldn't even know that he exists, even among the people well versed in the scene. I know for a fact that Carnage's MMR on Europe can hit top 16 gm players and he himself I think is in the top 50? or 100? Either way, his rank and skill should be irrelevant to the fact that he should have been given a fair shot at qualification.
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On December 12 2014 14:19 Erik.TheRed wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 14:15 BasetradeTV wrote:On December 12 2014 14:12 Erik.TheRed wrote:On December 12 2014 13:55 BasetradeTV wrote:(Hi guys, Rifkin here) What I could do, what I want to do is assume the persona everyone has given me of being this massively negative condescending prick, and go on the attack about your entitlement issues. But I won't, instead I'm going to explain this situation as best I can. If you still have issues, you are welcome to never compete in anything we run again :-) - 1 - The folks helping run the tournament were 100% volunteers (2 of our subscribers) who had absolutely zero experience regarding challonge, brackets in general, or handling issues in game. I'll go more into the "Y U NO HIRE PPL" below, but understand a lot of their decision making was poor communication from the fact that I was casting games at the same time and could not dedicate time to them to help handle the issues.
- 2 - The qualifier itself was plagued with ridiculous bad fortune. The first day I had no power, and our admin had no internet so we had to shift it to the following day, coupled with the fact that our primary bracket site (BinaryBeast) died for no reason in the morning, this caused a LOT of confusion for everyone involved. The same admin also became unavailable at the last moment.
- 3 - "Well fuck you, if you can have a 4k prize pool why can't you hire admins?" Well, fuck you, where do you think this prize pool comes from? Thin air? We're not exactly flush with cash after dumping everything into the prize pool, but just so you're aware we have been paying admins $25 per qualifier recently, and most of them are folks who work at Dreamhack, or have experience, such as Olimoley, handling players and brackets. I have a plethora of contacts who can do this job adequately however 3-5PM in North America = Sleep time in the rest of the world, and through bad luck zero people were available for this qualifier.
- 4 - It was late when this issue became a made aware to us. Casting the EU Qualifier started at 10 AM and it was around 9 PM at this point. We had several players (unnamed, but thanks to all) looking at the replays, and when it was deemed that it was for sure hacking we said "Fuck him, let's move on" because at this point (had we back tracked to include you both back into the tournament) it would have drawn the tournament out even longer, and if we're going to be honest the next two opponents were Astrea (one of the best NA protoss players) and Kane (Just won the NA group). You probably weren't going to beat either of these players and I deemed it literally not worth ours or the viewers time to give the extra 1-2 hours any additional consideration.
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum. What good is a 4k prize pool if your tournament fails to uphold the basic integrities required of a fair competition? You failed to administrate this matter, and it's embarrassing that you can't even own up to it. Spouting nonsense like "he wouldn't have a shot in the next round anyway" is ridiculous and undermines the entire point of competition. Why not just hand out medals to the top 10 ladder heroes instead? Or maybe the player with the biggest twitter following? Saying that you run on volunteer labor/it was late/ the cat shit the rug/ etc, isn't relevant and does not excuse your behavior. Everyone knows that running an event is hard so it's up to you as the head admin to take the full responsibility for shortcomings and figure out how to make your product better in the future. Please, teach me more from your first hand experience in these matters Yes very logical response, because I'm not a tournament admin I clearly must not be capable of criticism. I have a feeling that your long-term success and viewership will speak for itself though.
If I had a penny for every time I've had to say that phrase myself, I could hire so many admins!!!
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On December 12 2014 14:15 BasetradeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 14:12 Erik.TheRed wrote:On December 12 2014 13:55 BasetradeTV wrote:(Hi guys, Rifkin here) What I could do, what I want to do is assume the persona everyone has given me of being this massively negative condescending prick, and go on the attack about your entitlement issues. But I won't, instead I'm going to explain this situation as best I can. If you still have issues, you are welcome to never compete in anything we run again :-) - 1 - The folks helping run the tournament were 100% volunteers (2 of our subscribers) who had absolutely zero experience regarding challonge, brackets in general, or handling issues in game. I'll go more into the "Y U NO HIRE PPL" below, but understand a lot of their decision making was poor communication from the fact that I was casting games at the same time and could not dedicate time to them to help handle the issues.
- 2 - The qualifier itself was plagued with ridiculous bad fortune. The first day I had no power, and our admin had no internet so we had to shift it to the following day, coupled with the fact that our primary bracket site (BinaryBeast) died for no reason in the morning, this caused a LOT of confusion for everyone involved. The same admin also became unavailable at the last moment.
- 3 - "Well fuck you, if you can have a 4k prize pool why can't you hire admins?" Well, fuck you, where do you think this prize pool comes from? Thin air? We're not exactly flush with cash after dumping everything into the prize pool, but just so you're aware we have been paying admins $25 per qualifier recently, and most of them are folks who work at Dreamhack, or have experience, such as Olimoley, handling players and brackets. I have a plethora of contacts who can do this job adequately however 3-5PM in North America = Sleep time in the rest of the world, and through bad luck zero people were available for this qualifier.
- 4 - It was late when this issue became a made aware to us. Casting the EU Qualifier started at 10 AM and it was around 9 PM at this point. We had several players (unnamed, but thanks to all) looking at the replays, and when it was deemed that it was for sure hacking we said "Fuck him, let's move on" because at this point (had we back tracked to include you both back into the tournament) it would have drawn the tournament out even longer, and if we're going to be honest the next two opponents were Astrea (one of the best NA protoss players) and Kane (Just won the NA group). You probably weren't going to beat either of these players and I deemed it literally not worth ours or the viewers time to give the extra 1-2 hours any additional consideration.
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum. What good is a 4k prize pool if your tournament fails to uphold the basic integrities required of a fair competition? You failed to administrate this matter, and it's embarrassing that you can't even own up to it. Spouting nonsense like "he wouldn't have a shot in the next round anyway" is ridiculous and undermines the entire point of competition. Why not just hand out medals to the top 10 ladder heroes instead? Or maybe the player with the biggest twitter following? Saying that you run on volunteer labor/it was late/ the cat shit the rug/ etc, isn't relevant and does not excuse your behavior. Everyone knows that running an event is hard so it's up to you as the head admin to take the full responsibility for shortcomings and figure out how to make your product better in the future. Please, teach me more from your first hand experience in these matters
People do appreciate what you are doing, I don't believe the OP created the post because he/she wanted to discredit your tournament or damage your reputation. You did that yourself with your strawman post attacking view points that weren't even put forward. Honestly all you had to do was say "sorry it took so long to identify the hacker, this is the issues we had and we will try harder next time." and you would have come across as a great tournament organizer. Yet you shot yourself in the foot.
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Shit happens, deal with it. You have any idea how many of us have been fucked over by barcodes and alias hackers in weekly cups, tournament qualifiers, and everything else? Instead of running to team liquid accusing people of whatever why don't you be constructive instead of a snarky prick? Do you expect them to do a video call with every player in every qualifier to "make sure" everyone is who they say they are? Welcome to the world of competition where people are going to fucking cheat. This time you got fucked, sack up and get over it. Play in another qualifier, win something, don't whine, and get ready for it to happen to you again, a lot.
Also shitstorm to follow this post
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Tournament organizer: "You probably weren't going to beat either of these players."
Why organize a tournament then? That is laughable. Also anyone who needs to put a disclaimer at the beginning of their post saying they want to respond to the OP like an asshole but won't is... wait for it... about to respond like an asshole.
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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At this point it's been advised that I stop posting, but I've been having a really great time, so I'll make this the last one. To summarize a a reply:
+ Show Spoiler +
User was warned for this post
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After the tournament concluded, I think just PM'ing Rifkin directly or through a third party might have had a more positive effect. It would have avoided all these pitchforks that wait for personalities in the community to slip up, and even if he did blow you off then you could still bring it here. However, I would bet that talking to him in private would have helped you understand where he was coming from and possibly helped him better handle these situations in the future.
BasetradeTV has done a ton of shit for SC2 these past couple years, enough to forgive much more than this.
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On December 12 2014 14:42 MadVillian wrote:
I think just PM'ing Rifkin directly or through a third party might have had a more positive effect. It would have avoided all these pitchforks that wait for personalities in the community to slip up, and even if he did blow you off then you could still bring it here. I would bet that talking to him in private would have helped you understand where he was coming from and possibly helped him better handle these situations in the future.
BasetradeTV has done a ton of shit for SC2 these past couple years, enough to forgive much more than this.
No kidding. Completely inappropriate venue (especially with that title, lol) to bring this up before pm'ing Rifkin or reaching out in some other way.
It's too bad it happened, but with all the good work Basetrade does its probably more a miracle that this hasn't happened earlier.
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lol. It's really unfortunate you have to make a decision based around this sort of thing but there's no reason to be a cunt about it. A player was denied a fair shot of competition in your tournament, and that's entirely on you, even if you had a fair reason for it.
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The heck? Well, I'm someone who has hosted and co-hosted plenty of tournaments(not in SC2 however) and fairness of competition has always been the top priority by far. Those are some of the most unprofessional responses I've ever seen. I'm definitely boycotting everything organized by BasetradeTV. I'm not sure what you're after but quality competition doesn't seem to be it. If you are looking to make money, getting a real job would be far more profitable and reliable so I'd suggest that avenue.
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On December 12 2014 14:45 habibe wrote:
What a truly bizarre response. I'm not sure I can ever remember a TO explicitly admitting that the integrity of their tournament is secondary in importance to the time of its admins and viewers. Moreover, calling a player entitled for requesting that you meet that basic standard beggars belief. I had no horse in this and had no idea of any reputation but you certainly did do your best to meet it with that accounting. A simple apology made in good faith, taken in the light of the difficulties you had that day, would surely have satisfied, and it would have wasted much less of that valuable time of yours than this misplaced rant to boot.
Exactly.
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He can't respond anymore guiz
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Whoa. Rifkins response is not what I expected. He seems so cool in his casts...
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On December 12 2014 13:55 BasetradeTV wrote:(Hi guys, Rifkin here) What I could do, what I want to do is assume the persona everyone has given me of being this massively negative condescending prick, and go on the attack about your entitlement issues. But I won't, instead I'm going to explain this situation as best I can. If you still have issues, you are welcome to never compete in anything we run again :-) - 1 - The folks helping run the tournament were 100% volunteers (2 of our subscribers) who had absolutely zero experience regarding challonge, brackets in general, or handling issues in game. I'll go more into the "Y U NO HIRE PPL" below, but understand a lot of their decision making was poor communication from the fact that I was casting games at the same time and could not dedicate time to them to help handle the issues.
- 2 - The qualifier itself was plagued with ridiculous bad fortune. The first day I had no power, and our admin had no internet so we had to shift it to the following day, coupled with the fact that our primary bracket site (BinaryBeast) died for no reason in the morning, this caused a LOT of confusion for everyone involved. The same admin also became unavailable at the last moment.
- 3 - "Well fuck you, if you can have a 4k prize pool why can't you hire admins?" Well, fuck you, where do you think this prize pool comes from? Thin air? We're not exactly flush with cash after dumping everything into the prize pool, but just so you're aware we have been paying admins $25 per qualifier recently, and most of them are folks who work at Dreamhack, or have experience, such as Olimoley, handling players and brackets. I have a plethora of contacts who can do this job adequately however 3-5PM in North America = Sleep time in the rest of the world, and through bad luck zero people were available for this qualifier.
- 4 - It was late when this issue became a made aware to us. Casting the EU Qualifier started at 10 AM and it was around 9 PM at this point. We had several players (unnamed, but thanks to all) looking at the replays, and when it was deemed that it was for sure hacking we said "Fuck him, let's move on" because at this point (had we back tracked to include you both back into the tournament) it would have drawn the tournament out even longer, and if we're going to be honest the next two opponents were Astrea (one of the best NA protoss players) and Kane (Just won the NA group). You probably weren't going to beat either of these players and I deemed it literally not worth ours or the viewers time to give the extra 1-2 hours any additional consideration.
Truthfully speaking, there's no need for justification, it's our tournament (OUR HOUSE OUR RULES). Hopefully all the other tournament organizers (LOL) out there who are constantly holding North American qualifiers (LOL) will look at this post and learn something from it, because for me, all this does it put another point in the "Don't waste time with NA players" coloum.
Truthfully speaking, YOU ARE A RUDE PRICK. You're finished. Players can easily boycott you, the community doesn't need you, you need the community.
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On December 12 2014 14:47 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 14:42 MadVillian wrote:
I think just PM'ing Rifkin directly or through a third party might have had a more positive effect. It would have avoided all these pitchforks that wait for personalities in the community to slip up, and even if he did blow you off then you could still bring it here. I would bet that talking to him in private would have helped you understand where he was coming from and possibly helped him better handle these situations in the future.
BasetradeTV has done a ton of shit for SC2 these past couple years, enough to forgive much more than this. No kidding. Completely inappropriate venue (especially with that title, lol) to bring this up before pm'ing Rifkin or reaching out in some other way. It's too bad it happened, but with all the good work Basetrade does its probably more a miracle that this hasn't happened earlier.
Don't want to start a fight with you guys but note that Rifkin's response is way more inappropiate than OP's post... and kinda makes the title valid!
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On December 12 2014 14:42 MadVillian wrote:
After the tournament concluded, I think just PM'ing Rifkin directly or through a third party might have had a more positive effect. It would have avoided all these pitchforks that wait for personalities in the community to slip up, and even if he did blow you off then you could still bring it here. However, I would bet that talking to him in private would have helped you understand where he was coming from and possibly helped him better handle these situations in the future.
BasetradeTV has done a ton of shit for SC2 these past couple years, enough to forgive much more than this.
Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis so much thiiiiiiiiiiiiis
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On December 12 2014 14:47 ROOTiaguz wrote:
lol. It's really unfortunate you have to make a decision based around this sort of thing but there's no reason to be a cunt about it. A player was denied a fair shot of competition in your tournament, and that's entirely on you, even if you had a fair reason for it.
Rude, self-centered, man-children who think they deserve to be treated special because they got the short end of the stick in a situation that some asshole who we don't even know need to be talked to like a cunt, because someone obviously forgot to when they were younger.
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Canada11363 Posts
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On December 12 2014 15:01 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 14:42 MadVillian wrote:
After the tournament concluded, I think just PM'ing Rifkin directly or through a third party might have had a more positive effect. It would have avoided all these pitchforks that wait for personalities in the community to slip up, and even if he did blow you off then you could still bring it here. However, I would bet that talking to him in private would have helped you understand where he was coming from and possibly helped him better handle these situations in the future.
BasetradeTV has done a ton of shit for SC2 these past couple years, enough to forgive much more than this. Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis so much thiiiiiiiiiiiiis
I actually did PM Rifkin while he was casting Astrea vs Kane.
He didn't even acknowledge what I wrote to him and logged off of bnet.
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Stop posting while tired and grumpy rifkin. Everyone else Lynchforks away plz this guy works his ass off clearly just having a horrible day.
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On December 12 2014 15:08 PiGStarcraft wrote:
Stop posting while tired and grumpy rifkin. Everyone else Lynchforks away plz this guy works his ass off clearly just having a horrible day.
PiG wisdom is best wisdom
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Rifkin,
You clearly have no business experience.
You could have just said "We apologize for any inconvenience in our tournament and take your complaints very seriously. Thank you for your detailed review of this incident."
It's basically a socially acceptable "fuck you" in business speak. Please keep that in mind next time. No more tantrums.
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I don't know anything about the tournament situation, but I'll say I know who ladders that account and it is legitimately rank 1 GM with zerg.
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On December 12 2014 15:08 PiGStarcraft wrote:
Stop posting while tired and grumpy rifkin. Everyone else Lynchforks away plz this guy works his ass off clearly just having a horrible day.
Very sensible, thanks! Couldn't echo this more – while it may not have been the BEST way to handle what went down, there's really no point in getting up in arms about it either, especially considering how much hard work this BasetradeTV guy puts into the scene...
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On December 12 2014 15:11 Lazare1969 wrote:
Rifkin,
You clearly have no business experience.
You could have just said "We apologize for any inconvenience in our tournament and take your complaints very seriously. Thank you for your detailed review of this incident."
It's basically a socially acceptable "fuck you" in business speak. Please keep that in mind next time. No more tantrums.
Because he wouldn't get the same amount or probably more criticism for that response
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Kind of fun that Rifkin's response in the thread looks much worse than what he was being attacked for in the first place
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
While I agree that this is an unfortunate turn of events and both parties could have handled it better, I don't think airing out dirty laundry on TL is healthy for anyone. If they want to settle this matter they can take it to PMs, but pot shots from forum posters isn't going to help.
I'm locking this thread so it's still readable, but I'm stopping the "discussion" here.
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United States33432 Posts
hahahahahaha
TL censorship wins again 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/liH94sr.png)
