Although this ranking was originally set for publishing on the 1st of November, I decided that with the WCS Global Ro16 taking place and the rest of the playoffs happening just a week later, it would become too obsolete too quickly. It has now been revised in order to be up-to-date with the results of the WCS Finals and thus covers all of October in addition to the final WCS tournament of the year.
This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition.
The Power Rank takes into account both results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
A player's placement on the Power Rank does not suggest that the player is better or worse than a higher ranked player in head-to-head. This ranking is an overall appraisal of a player, not an attempt to answer the question ”Who beats who?”
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Bomber
Bomber made it to Blizzcon as the #1 received and was rewarded by being allowed to face Jaedong in the first round. But even there, against an opponent he was supposed to beat handily, he was met with trouble. Edging out a relatively on-form JD and moving on to face MMA in the Ro8 made it seem like the more serious threat had been dealy with. His loss to MMA, in the light of his brutal stomping of Cure and repeated victories against Polt, was surprising. Bomber played well, but his play wasn't as crisp or as without fault as it has been during some periods this year. The one game he won was in typical Bomber fashion, but the ones he lost were more reminiscent of his 2012/2013 days of brutal inconsistency than the Bomber we've come to know as a constant championship threat in 2014. I would love to place Bomber higher on this ranking because the games he played versus MMA were so entertaining, but there are no other players I would bump down for entertainment factor alone. Perhaps losing to the eventual finalist - evidently in some of the best form in MMA's recent career - can be of some consolation.
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herO
proxy 2 gate. proxy two gate. sOs Proxy 2 gate. Proxy 2 gate. Proxy two gates. Proxy two gateways. Zest Proxy 2 gate. Proximity 2 gateways. 2 Proxy gateways. 2 Gateways in Proximity. 2 gate. Classic Proxy 2 gate. Too. Gates. Proxy to the Proxy Gate. forward 2 gates. 2 gates in forward proximity. proxy gate + proxy gate = proxy 2 gate. Proxy the 2 gate. Naniwa. 2 gate. Not Warpgate. 2 gates in proxy. Proxy 2 gate? PROXY 2 GATE!
Seriously, herO, scout your damn base. Katowice should have taught you that people will happily proxy you when $100.000 are on the line. With thanks to stuchiu for creative input
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Solar
While a large part of the world elite traveled to Burbank and Anaheim to duke it out for the title of World Champion, Solar and a small contingent of Korean players made their way to Taiwan for the MSI Beat IT tournament. There, Solar tore through a playoffs lineup of First, Rogue and Parting (staging a comeback from an 0-2 deficit in the finals) and made it look fairly easy. Although not all games were streamed, it's safe to assume that Solar at least properly scouted, both his opponent's bases and his own. With his championship in Taipei, Solar maintains his spot as one of the world's three best Zergs and the spot as the by far most underrated multiple champion.
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Classic
It should tell you quite a bit about Classic that some people were surprised when he - a fairly recent GSL champion - made it to the semifinals. His run was not as illustrious as Life's or Taeja's, but his breadth of strategy versus Polt and the complete calm under pressure versus herO (in other words, his opponent's polar opposite) are both important parts of being a championship contender. With that said, the loss he suffered against MMA hurt his credibility somewhat. I may be underestimating MMA, but the engagements Classic took against the Acer Terran were uncharacteristically poor - at least in part forced by MMA, granted - and that hurt him badly.
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MMA
After a tournament of Blizzcon's magnitude, I feel a little bad for not placing MMA any higher. With that said, I also cannot find grounds for putting him above any of the remaining five. He made a mostly impressive surprise run to the finals by beating Stardust 3-1, Bomber 3-1 and Classic 3-1 before falling to Life in unceremonious fashion. After the finals, I'm left asking how things could have happened different. Undoubtedly MMA's form was the best it had been in a long time, his TvP and TvT looking better than it has in a long while. So what if MMA had faced herO in the semifinals, would he have won that match? Or against Jaedong in the quarterfinals? Could he have made something happen against Taeja, with the beating he gave Bomber in mind?
For me, the answer to all of these questions is a tentative "No". MMA made it three rounds deeper than I expected him to before the Global Finals began, and perhaps I am giving him too little credit, but I still cannot shake the feeling that he dodged several bullets on his way to the finals. Whether he dodged those by virtue of his own skill and preparatin or because his opponents crumbled and the brackets turned out favorably, I cannot confidently say. But when you feel like a player didn't achieve what he did through his own strength alone, that's usually an indication that you also don't consider him one of the best in the world.
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soO
There isn't much I can say for soO's Ro16 elimination from the Global Finals other than that he lost in the most honorable way possible for someone like him: he did not choke, he did not make mistakes that he would not make on other, smaller stages, and he played to the best of his abilities. Against Taeja's his standard level of play, with all that it entails, that simply wasn't enough. I don't doubt that he could have given Innovation a run for his money in the quarterfinals or made Life fight tooth and nail in the semifinals, but those scenarios belong to the long list of "What if?" that follows soO around while other players rise and surpass his quiet consistency.
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Zest
Like soO, Zest will remember this Blizzcon as a tournament of unfulfilled expectations. The player most expected to make it deep into the tournament losing in the Ro16 was surprising, the way in which he lost even more so. Uncharacteristic mistakes - whether they were forced by a fear of Life's unusual style or lingering effects of jetlag - haunted Zest in all five games he played against Life, and his elimination meant that I would have no more games to judge him from. He played mostly well in October, but failing to build on his reputation as the best player in the world makes it hard for me to give him any more than a fourth place based on past merits. Next year, Zest, next year.
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INnoVation
While fellow GSL his fellow KeSPA stars soO and Zest were eliminated due to simply not being good enough on the given day and for their given match, Innovation's defeat at the hands of Taeja feels a little unclean, a little questionable. I don't doubt Taeja's mental composure or that the Liquid Terran's experience with hour-long delays and the unique features of international tournaments made him better fit to handle delays than Innovation, but I also admit to not being completely sure about whether or not Taeja could have beaten Innovation without those delays. As the night dragged on and yet new issues emerged to succeed past ones, Innovation seemed to slowly crumble. At some point, he looked on the verge of tears. You might argue that mental composure is a key part of being a progamer and I would agree, but that does not change the fact that Innovation won a fairly clean first game through classic high-level TvT and played like someone else entirely once the breaks were over and the games resumed.
He looked every bit as sharp against Hyun as he did when he beat soO to take home the final GSL of the year, so perhaps his focus had been on TvZ more so than TvT. Perhaps he expected a rematch against soO in the quarterfinals. It is impossible to say exactly how well Innovation could have done against Taeja if those delays had never happened and his keyboard had never broken. Taeja was in great shape at the time, but the questionable circumstances of the entire match makes it hard for me to judge Innovation completely fairly.
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Taeja
The fact that the lower half of the Blizzcon bracket was much more stacked than the upper part made it clear that the eventual champion would eventually emerge from those eight players. Of contenders like Zest, soO and Innovation, Taeja faced the opponent most likely to take him out – soO – and made him look like a joke in at least one game, remaining ahead and fighting better against a renowned for being almost perfect in these areas.
Beating soO was a statement, a challenge to the remaining champions in the tournament. Although the final quarterfinal would be haunted and tarnished by technical difficulties, disconnects and hardware issues, Taeja remained completely calm while his opponent Innovation imploded, destabilized and brought out of his element by factors he couldn't control. But after his first loss against Life, the aura of invincibility he had radiated against soO and Innovation dissipated, and as his mentality broke Life found a way to beat him. Unquestionably, Taeja was one of the best players at Blizzcon. But ultimately, losing to Life when it mattered the most was uncharacteristic and enough to stop him from taking the championship.
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Life
If one single thing has characterized Life's career, it has to be perseverence in the face of seemingly insurmountable opposition. Very few saw Life as a true contender for the WCS title when he was paired with triple champion Zest in the first round. His victory there – one long and awkwardly executed game on Nimbus aside – indicated that he had come to Blizzcon with his eyes set firmly on the trophy, but it remained hard to believe that he could make it happen. And yet, every step that took him closer was a step where he displayed all of the skills that once made him the best player in the world. Against both Zest and San he showed that preparation is something he, too, can learn to master, and that greed as a way to fight greed is something he is more than willing to utilize.
But although the matches against Zest and San spoke volumes about how good Life can be when he is truly on his game, he shoots to the first spot on this ranking for his match against Taeja. The Liquid Terran is a monster in tournaments where instincts, composure and mechanics play a larger role than preparation. He excels in turning chaos into his order, beating down aggression and outmaneuvering unorthodox players to ultimately win with play that looks standard. When you consider that he made soO, four-time GSL finalist and (previously) considered the best Zerg in the world, look outmatched in ZvT it makes Life's victory over Taeja so much more meaningful. After their series, no one can say that Life did not have the skill to take Taeja on in straight-up macro, or that he isn't one of few capable of tilting him. Game 2 was a display in how to bring the most mentally composed Terran in the world out of his comfort zone and pick him apart in the kind of game he normally does not ever lose.
After the matches against Zest and Taeja, sweeping MMA aside to take the championship was a formality. Although his run to the championship itself is worthy of much respect, the manner in which he made it there is what truly puts him above all others with Blizzcon now behind us. In reproducing exactly the kind of run he made in 2012, Life can now proudly call himself both World Champion and the best player in the world.
On November 13 2014 07:07 iHirO wrote: Honestly I feel that Rain should have got the 10th spot.
Rain was actually #10 in my original draft, but excluding Bomber in favor of a player that played no offline games in October and didn't attend Blizzcon felt absurd.
Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere.
Just like in tennis where the olympics are weighted the same as a grand slam in rankings! Oh wait...
Huh, Life 1st? I don't recall Effort taking 1st spot in Power Rank after beating Flash in OSL final. TaeJa and Zest 1/2 and Life 3rd. One run is not enough.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere.
Just like in tennis where the olympics are weighted the same as a grand slam in rankings! Oh wait...
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere.
Just like in tennis where the olympics are weighted the same as a grand slam in rankings! Oh wait...
You just picked one sport out of the entire olympics and think you won the argument TT
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere.
Just like in tennis where the olympics are weighted the same as a grand slam in rankings! Oh wait...
You just picked one sport out of the entire olympics and think you won the argument TT
not to mention the whole part where all the GSL finalists of the year lost before the semifinals...(except Classic who lost in the semifinals, forgot about him lol)
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere.
Just like in tennis where the olympics are weighted the same as a grand slam in rankings! Oh wait...
I noticed you left out the rest of the quote
Worth to note that results wise there's no indication that the number of WCS KR players is that important as WCS KR representatives were in no way dominating.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere.
Just like in tennis where the olympics are weighted the same as a grand slam in rankings! Oh wait...
Yeah and Jamaica Championship in athletism is totally more prestigious than Olympic Games.
These power ranks seem so inconsistent. Sometimes the month performance doesn't seem to matter much more than consistency and sometimes it is enough to instantly catapult a player to rank 1. In the end the WCS finals only were 4 matches. If these ranks were made like the one where Rain won, Bomber should be much higher. He won RBBG and WCS America after all.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere.
Just like in tennis where the olympics are weighted the same as a grand slam in rankings! Oh wait...
On November 13 2014 07:25 nimdil wrote: Huh, Life 1st? I don't recall Effort taking 1st spot in Power Rank after beating Flash in OSL final. TaeJa and Zest 1/2 and Life 3rd. One run is not enough.
I didn't write BW Power Ranks and Flash was a tad more dominant then than soO/Zest are now though
On November 13 2014 07:25 nimdil wrote: Huh, Life 1st? I don't recall Effort taking 1st spot in Power Rank after beating Flash in OSL final. TaeJa and Zest 1/2 and Life 3rd. One run is not enough.
Yea but in your example Flash at least made the finals. Who are you suggesting to be first? Zest or soO maybe? They lost in the first round and still got good spots.
On November 13 2014 07:25 nimdil wrote: Huh, Life 1st? I don't recall Effort taking 1st spot in Power Rank after beating Flash in OSL final. TaeJa and Zest 1/2 and Life 3rd. One run is not enough.
Yea but in your example Flash at least made the finals. Who are you suggesting to be first? Zest or soO maybe? They lost in the first round and still got spots.
Obviously TaeJa or MMA should be first.
I'm perfectly OK with Life though, he played very well against not-zergs recently.
Taeja should be #1. His series vs Soo was the best in sc2 history. Life too advantage of bad play conditions at blizzcon. Taeja had to sit up for like 5 extra hours to just play Inno so of course he played poor enough against life to lose the next day
On November 13 2014 07:44 Shellshock wrote: Taeja should be #1. His series vs Soo was the best in sc2 history. Life too advantage of bad play conditions at blizzcon. Taeja had to sit up for like 5 extra hours to just play Inno so of course he played poor enough against life to lose the next day
I'd ok with Taeja getting the #1, but Life is good too
Life has losses to Snute, Targa, Gumiho x2, herO, Byul etc. since the last power rank and fell to code B. Why call this a power rank and not just Blizzcon final standings?
This has nothing to do with blizzon final standings(then MMA would be higher placed.......). This has to do with the players that Life defeated on his way to winning blizzcon and the way he did it. He defeated Zest, 3-0 PvZ expert San and won over a Taeja that just took out soO and Innovation.
Stop whining about Taeja not playing in GSL and therefore he sucks when he kicked the shit out of both soO and Innovation. Doesn't matter where he plays if he is better than the GSL champion.
Life is nr 1 right now and most arguements against that are just silly. The kings of GSL got their asses handed to them by Taeja and Life, its not a bad dream its reality.
Life HAD to be #1... I think the only debate really is the scuffle around 2~4
Does TaeJa deserve to be #2 on basically two Bo5 wins? How much should we take INno and soO's past results into consideration? If other players are making huge moves on just a few series, is MMA being held to a horrible double standard at #6?
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
But Zealously, Rain is actually the best player in the world, Artosis said so, and it's just not fair that WCS KR points don't count for more than winning the most stacked tournament of the year by beating arguably 3 of the top 5 players on the planet.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
But Zealously, Rain is actually the best player in the world, Artosis said so, and it's just not fair that WCS KR points don't count for more than winning the most stacked tournament of the year by beating arguably 3 of the top 5 players on the planet.
Are you really calling Blizzcon the most stacked tournament of the year?
On November 13 2014 08:12 Shuffleblade wrote: This has nothing to do with blizzon final standings(then MMA would be higher placed.......). This has to do with the players that Life defeated on his way to winning blizzcon and the way he did it. He defeated Zest, 3-0 PvZ expert San and won over a Taeja that just took out soO and Innovation.
Stop whining about Taeja not playing in GSL and therefore he sucks when he kicked the shit out of both soO and Innovation. Doesn't matter where he plays if he is better than the GSL champion.
Life is nr 1 right now and most arguements against that are just silly. The kings of GSL got their asses handed to them by Taeja and Life, its not a bad dream its reality.
Of course it has to do with Blizzcon final standings. Look at MMAs games in October/November, do 3-1s over StarDust, Bomber and Classic really warrant 6th place?
MMA 1-4 Life MMA 3-1 Classic MMA 3-1 Bomber MMA 3-1 StarDust MMA 1-2 Happy MMA 1-2 First MMA 2-1 Kas MMA 0-2 poizon (I assume this is a walkover because I don't see how else this would have happened) MMA 4-2 YoDa MMA 3-1 San
On November 13 2014 07:57 vult wrote: LOL LIFE AT #1.
NJ ZEALOUSLY.
Definitely top 3 still. That run was insane. And that shows he has what it takes. But I'd expect him to go down the ranks if he doesn't keep up this level of play consistently.
This one is kinda biased (sooo much emphasis on blizzcon :D), on the other hand there wasn't really much going on between the last power rank and this one either, so yeah. But overall not that bad
I would swap MMA on the 9th spot for his honorable performance, put Rain on 10th, remove herO altogether, bump Bomber and the others accordingly, and finally, swap Life and Taeja
So much emphasis on Blizzcon, but I sure can't deny that the players prepared and prepared and prepared, and it showed in game.
On November 13 2014 07:25 nimdil wrote: Huh, Life 1st? I don't recall Effort taking 1st spot in Power Rank after beating Flash in OSL final. TaeJa and Zest 1/2 and Life 3rd. One run is not enough.
Yea but in your example Flash at least made the finals. Who are you suggesting to be first? Zest or soO maybe? They lost in the first round and still got good spots.
TaeJa or Zest. Both will work. Both lost to Life 2-3 so their performance was close to eventual winner.
On November 13 2014 07:25 nimdil wrote: Huh, Life 1st? I don't recall Effort taking 1st spot in Power Rank after beating Flash in OSL final. TaeJa and Zest 1/2 and Life 3rd. One run is not enough.
Yea but in your example Flash at least made the finals. Who are you suggesting to be first? Zest or soO maybe? They lost in the first round and still got good spots.
TaeJa or Zest. Both will work. Both lost to Life 2-3 so their performance was close to eventual winner.
Life threw game 3 against Zest, so that should have been a 3-0
The bias is strong in this article. Taeja was clearly better than Life this year overall as a player. Life wasn't talked about as much nor did he win nearly as much as Taeja did. The fact he slipped into Blizzcon was astonishing in my opinion.
On November 13 2014 09:00 geokilla wrote: The bias is strong in this article. Taeja was clearly better than Life this year overall as a player. Life wasn't talked about as much nor did he win nearly as much as Taeja did. The fact he slipped into Blizzcon was astonishing in my opinion.
I'm sure anyone would have been thrown off by having to stay up for an extra 5 hours to play 1 hr worth of gametime in tvt the night before. Can't really blame TaeJa for the venue's problems imo
On November 13 2014 09:00 geokilla wrote: The bias is strong in this article. Taeja was clearly better than Life this year overall as a player. Life wasn't talked about as much nor did he win nearly as much as Taeja did. The fact he slipped into Blizzcon was astonishing in my opinion.
I'm sure anyone would have been thrown off by having to stay up for an extra 5 hours to play 1 hr worth of gametime in tvt the night before. Can't really blame TaeJa for the venue's problems imo
On November 13 2014 09:00 geokilla wrote: The bias is strong in this article. Taeja was clearly better than Life this year overall as a player. Life wasn't talked about as much nor did he win nearly as much as Taeja did. The fact he slipped into Blizzcon was astonishing in my opinion.
I'm sure anyone would have been thrown off by having to stay up for an extra 5 hours to play 1 hr worth of gametime in tvt the night before. Can't really blame TaeJa for the venue's problems imo
During a time frame with a single overriding tournament, no less one that's single elimination bracket and doesn't even feature all the contenders for "best player", any ordered list of players by definition has some weaknesses.
For example, it's a little funny that Life takes the top spot entirely based on his placement in this single tournament, but finalist MMA is below two guys who lost in the ro16 and one guy who lost in the ro8. (disclaimer: I don't actually think MMA is overall better than Zest, soO, or Inno)
Also, Rain, Flash, or Cure are probably not all that much worse players than they were last month, but they're dropped entirely from the list (ok, maybe Cure was not so great).
Finally, as a big fan of Solar, it's supremely ironic that he actually went out and won his second $10k tournament (over some decent Korean opposition) but actually dropped places in the rankings.
I'm not knocking Zealously, I don't think I could have made a "perfect" list, or even a much better one. I just think a fairer list would be: "Best Overall Performances in the Last Month and a Half", or one that just groups players in tiers. "Power Rank" and "best ____ in the world"-statements are so much more hype, I know, I know.
On November 13 2014 09:00 geokilla wrote: The bias is strong in this article. Taeja was clearly better than Life this year overall as a player. Life wasn't talked about as much nor did he win nearly as much as Taeja did. The fact he slipped into Blizzcon was astonishing in my opinion.
I'm sure anyone would have been thrown off by having to stay up for an extra 5 hours to play 1 hr worth of gametime in tvt the night before. Can't really blame TaeJa for the venue's problems imo
Which is exactly what Zealously knocked on Innovation for. Because he "broke" during the 5 hours of "TvTvVenue" the day before while Taeja didn't.
On November 13 2014 08:23 REyeM wrote: So when should we expect pre-SPL power rank where ST/yFW will be ranked #1?
I'm thinking STFW at #3 right now unless something changes, but I'll consider your input!
Ooooh, I'll be looking forward to reading this list too (fucking can't wait for Proleague)
If I had to guess, KT would be the top spot, SKT has definitely lost some key players. It'll be hard to sort out the top 4 or 5 with KT, SKT, STFW, Jin Air, and maybe CJ.
On November 13 2014 09:00 geokilla wrote: The bias is strong in this article. Taeja was clearly better than Life this year overall as a player. Life wasn't talked about as much nor did he win nearly as much as Taeja did. The fact he slipped into Blizzcon was astonishing in my opinion.
"This year" doesn't matter for a rank that is mostly monthly, though.
He must have his coach, his teammates all make fun of him when it happened at Katowice, yet here we are. If i were him I'd be the most paranoid guy in the whole world when i play a PvP in a tournament. I'm totally baffled.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
But Zealously, Rain is actually the best player in the world, Artosis said so, and it's just not fair that WCS KR points don't count for more than winning the most stacked tournament of the year by beating arguably 3 of the top 5 players on the planet.
Are you really calling Blizzcon the most stacked tournament of the year?
With all of the GSL finalists from this year there? With Taeja (11 premier titles) there? Bomber fresh off a title? MMA ditto? Absolutely.
Let's just rename this Flavor of the Month ranking. Because really in the end, it's all it is. Oh and I personally think Taeja deserves to be high ranked than Life regardless if it wasn't so FotM.
I feel like MMA's rank is a bi low, considering he not only got second at the biggest event of the year, but took out the current WCS AM Champion, The last WCS Europe Champion (Besides MMA himself, ofcourse) and the WCS KRR Season 2 Champion on the way. I dont mind Life being first, even though I dislike him, he earned it, but MMA should definitely be higher.
Man as expected people are getting all uppity about the Power Rank. Congrats to Life, he deserves the spot as world champion! Overall good rank Zealously.
On November 13 2014 11:26 yoshi245 wrote: Let's just rename this Flavor of the Month ranking. Because really in the end, it's all it is. Oh and I personally think Taeja deserves to be high ranked than Life regardless if it wasn't so FotM.
The biggest Tournament Taeja won was a Dreamhack Winter, while Life's won GSL, Hot6ix Cup, and now Blizzcon. Even if you compare their careers and not current form Life looks better.
i'm glad you guys pointed out, that while MMA played quite well, he went to the finals on the easier half of the bracket and got demolished by Life who survived the mind blowingly stacked harder half of the bracket.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
Good list! Life #1 I predicted: 3-0 zest 3-1 san 3-2 innovation 4-0 her0. I feel like it was a close prediction even tho none of the scores are right :D. I wished innovation would beat Taeja because I feared the other champion in the tournament could be too much for Life. Surprised her0 didn't make it to the finals :o. Very nice MMA but once life has the momentum only someone with the same or even better mindset can beat him (maybe taeja and s0s could).
Sadly theres no reason to have s0s in there . Life, s0s and TaeJa are the best players in the world imo. Maybe maru should be there too but I feel like he still needs prove it once more.
I enjoyed reading this Power Rank. However, like some others, I think Taeja is much too high. The fact is, he hasn't played in the most competitive leagues and tournaments for years. Except this one (and last Blizzcon, I suppose). And he came up short. He didn't embarrass himself. In fact, he played great. But one good performance shouldn't mean you take the number 2 spot (especially when you didn't even come in as #2).
If Taeja is #2, then Stephano was the #2 player for about a year.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
Even considering only Blizzcon, #6 sounds about right for MMA (maybe slightly too low). He made it to the finals, but he had a very favourable bracket, and looked completely lost in the finals against Life.
Honestly I don't know who is the best SC2 player in the world, but right now at least I can happily assume that it is Life. I hope he'll continue to be impressive, I really enjoy watching his zerg playstyle.
I'd be hesitant to place too much value on one tournament, even Blizzcon. Like Zest botched a cannon rush and dropped 3 spots, I think that is placing too much value on what I think were some flukey outcomes at Blizzcon. Not to mention so many great players didn't even get a chance to go to Blizzcon b/c of the silly and arbitrary way WCS was structured, Flash, Rain, sOs (the double world champion!), Parting, etc. I don't expect the results of Blizzcon to have a much wider effect in the Starcraft world and when Korea is reunified(!) next year I think we will see who is really on top, and it will be the usual suspects: Zest, sOs, Innovation, Flash, Maru, soO, Life (maybe Parting and Rain, we will see how they fare post-Proleague. I suspect Parting will thrive, but Rain seems too dyed in the wool Kespa to me.)
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
I don't think placing MMA at #6 for beating the players he did and getting absolutely crushed by Life is terribly biased. Would you rate him above soO or Zest after Blizzcon? For me, the answer was no - he impressed me, but not that much.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
I don't think placing MMA at #6 for beating the players he did and getting absolutely crushed by MMA is terribly visade. Would you rate him above soO or Zest after Blizzcon? For me, the answer was no - he impressed me, but not that much.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
I don't think placing MMA at #6 for beating the players he did and getting absolutely crushed by MMA is terribly visade. Would you rate him above soO or Zest after Blizzcon? For me, the answer was no - he impressed me, but not that much.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
But Zealously, Rain is actually the best player in the world, Artosis said so, and it's just not fair that WCS KR points don't count for more than winning the most stacked tournament of the year by beating arguably 3 of the top 5 players on the planet.
Are you really calling Blizzcon the most stacked tournament of the year?
With all of the GSL finalists from this year there? With Taeja (11 premier titles) there? Bomber fresh off a title? MMA ditto? Absolutely.
not quite. life only played 2 code S level players in Zest and Taeja. In order to win gsl , you will at least beat 4 of them. Winning gsl is still a lot harder than winning blizzcon
Very nice list and a great read. Poor herO,cant help it but feel bad about that guy if he had scouted the right direction he would had beaten Classic then he would probably had beaten MMA and we would have a fantastic finals vs life. Whyyyyy
Taeja is the most complete package you can get without getting past the ro4 in a WCS tournament. He's a pretty comfortable choice for #2. Otherwise, I'd move Bomber up to #7 and MMA up one or two spots. Zest, soO, or Inno can make some room since they didn't get past ro16 or ro8. Bomber and Classic are no pushovers; both won WCS this year, which seems to matter quite a bit in Classic's case. I feel like the question was asked, "Classic or herO?" and Classic won out because of a GSL trophy.
I don't know much about Solar, other than he's on some wild tear recently, but he wasn't at Blizzcon at all. He'd be the one I move down the most to #10 to make room for Bomber at #7.
Life #1 is kind of obligatory and definitely expected. Life playing his best was once considered best in world, and he appears near enough that level, plus he's holding the trophy. He's got more competition now and probably won't hold the rank long; we'll see.
On November 13 2014 17:22 DarkLordOlli wrote: Rain not being on this list is questionable at the very least. He's done nothing but win and qualify for everything since leaving SKT
Also if only KeSPA liked their players ;o
Yeah but last offline event rain participated in was KeSPA cup and he got severly bashed by... Bomber.
Power rank should have 25 players it would be less heated as a discussion
But I like heated pointless discussios that just confront personnal opinion with no rationnality whatsoever, so here I go :
- If power rank is based on the chance a player has to win a big worldwide tournament with all the best player participating, I don't think Life should be number one. We already knew he could perform incredibly, Blizzcon just confirmed it (I had votred for him in the "underdog pool") but is he stable? will he we win again? will he establish a new reign? not sure at all. It's not the 2012 Life yet, I hope he will come back at his top, but at this point he still has to improve.
He's clearly not the dominating #1 player in the world. He's top 5 that's all, and that's already very good compared to what he was like 2 monthes ago
- At the moment, Solar > soO, easily. soO is just on a terribly slipery slope since DH final (against Solar...) he's clearly not as good as he was 3 monthes ago, got 3 major defeats where he seemed just helpless (Solar, INno, Taeja). On the other hand solar is on a ascending curve, he gets better and better, beats all the opponents that are thrown at him. Solar is clearly going to be a serious contender for the unofficial best zerg of 2015.
As of today, soO is behind Life and Solar, and depending on his run at the hot6 cup, he might soon not even be worth being in the top ten. As of today, not a lot of people would bet much on soO chance to win a big tournament... Hope he can recover and rebuild his mental strength in 2015.
On November 13 2014 17:41 Ansinjunger wrote: Taeja is the most complete package you can get without getting past the ro4 in a WCS tournament. He's a pretty comfortable choice for #2. Otherwise, I'd move Bomber up to #7 and MMA up one or two spots. Zest, soO, or Inno can make some room since they didn't get past ro16 or ro8. Bomber and Classic are no pushovers; both won WCS this year, which seems to matter quite a bit in Classic's case. I feel like the question was asked, "Classic or herO?" and Classic won out because of a GSL trophy.
Classic is above herO because herO doesn't know what scouting is
On November 13 2014 17:41 Ansinjunger wrote: Taeja is the most complete package you can get without getting past the ro4 in a WCS tournament. He's a pretty comfortable choice for #2. Otherwise, I'd move Bomber up to #7 and MMA up one or two spots. Zest, soO, or Inno can make some room since they didn't get past ro16 or ro8. Bomber and Classic are no pushovers; both won WCS this year, which seems to matter quite a bit in Classic's case. I feel like the question was asked, "Classic or herO?" and Classic won out because of a GSL trophy.
Classic is above herO because herO doesn't know what scouting is
I was at work watching this and started yelling at my monitor.
On November 13 2014 09:38 Quateras wrote: Freaking loved the CJ.herO part. Seriously :
how can this still happen?
He must have his coach, his teammates all make fun of him when it happened at Katowice, yet here we are. If i were him I'd be the most paranoid guy in the whole world when i play a PvP in a tournament. I'm totally baffled.
On November 13 2014 17:41 Ansinjunger wrote: Taeja is the most complete package you can get without getting past the ro4 in a WCS tournament. He's a pretty comfortable choice for #2. Otherwise, I'd move Bomber up to #7 and MMA up one or two spots. Zest, soO, or Inno can make some room since they didn't get past ro16 or ro8. Bomber and Classic are no pushovers; both won WCS this year, which seems to matter quite a bit in Classic's case. I feel like the question was asked, "Classic or herO?" and Classic won out because of a GSL trophy.
Classic is above herO because herO doesn't know what scouting is
Whilst I don't agree completely neither with this Power Rank nor with the Aligulac current top 10, both have Life as the first place so somehow this can't be completely wrong.
Edit: I am not sure if this is a correct English sentence, shame on me.
On November 13 2014 18:21 TrumpetWilli wrote: Whilst I don't agree completely neither with this Power Rank nor with the Aligulac current top 10, both have Life as the first place so somehow this can't be completely wrong.
Edit: I am not sure if this is a correct English sentence, shame on me.
Why don't you agree on Aligulac top 10? It's not a power rank, it's just maths (And just as for the PR, it doesn't predict who will win against whom, it just does probabilities).
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
But Zealously, Rain is actually the best player in the world, Artosis said so, and it's just not fair that WCS KR points don't count for more than winning the most stacked tournament of the year by beating arguably 3 of the top 5 players on the planet.
Are you really calling Blizzcon the most stacked tournament of the year?
With all of the GSL finalists from this year there? With Taeja (11 premier titles) there? Bomber fresh off a title? MMA ditto? Absolutely.
not quite. life only played 2 code S level players in Zest and Taeja. In order to win gsl , you will at least beat 4 of them. Winning gsl is still a lot harder than winning blizzcon
unless its a GSL with half of the top players being oversea, like this year. And Blizzcon was basically the tournament were those 2 divided regions that seldom played against each other really clashed, so Code S players could have proven that Code S actually meant they are the best. But it doesn't matter really, since there is a region lock next year. And GSL will be back in full.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
But Zealously, Rain is actually the best player in the world, Artosis said so, and it's just not fair that WCS KR points don't count for more than winning the most stacked tournament of the year by beating arguably 3 of the top 5 players on the planet.
Are you really calling Blizzcon the most stacked tournament of the year?
With all of the GSL finalists from this year there? With Taeja (11 premier titles) there? Bomber fresh off a title? MMA ditto? Absolutely.
not quite. life only played 2 code S level players in Zest and Taeja. In order to win gsl , you will at least beat 4 of them. Winning gsl is still a lot harder than winning blizzcon
unless its a GSL with half of the top players being oversea, like this year. And Blizzcon was basically the tournament were those 2 divided regions that seldom played against each other really clashed, so Code S players could have proven that Code S actually meant they are the best. But it doesn't matter really, since there is a region lock next year. And GSL will be back in full.
"half the top players" , ok i am curious, who are these players you are speaking of?
On November 13 2014 08:21 Dwayn wrote: MMA doesn't belong in any top 10.
Get lost sir.
I just cannot believe the lack of respect in general for MMA despite his accomplishments against the so called Korea region or Kespa players even. I don't say he is the best player or anything ridiculous of that sort but this run of his is a huge accomplishment for any relevant player. If the list is weighed heavily on blizzcon results then what the hell are zest and soo doing up there?
I feel we are heavily confusing between who we think are solid/beastly players overall while looking at their play and who should be good or bad depending on their result in a particular tournamentwhich is blizzcon in this case.
As an MMA fan I am proud of what he has achieved and how far he has come after being written off by everybody. No player in sc2 had fallen as hard as he did and has come back as strongly as has in a totally different era. Looking back there are almost no players of his time around except Bomber, DRG and probably Polt. And still he is there standing tall demolishing claims and proving his worth, while all we can do is scoff if he should be #6 or lower/higher.
Are we just a bunch of fanboys grumbling because their player didn't win or didn't get enough recognition for it? Or we can look at the greater picture and respect everybody who puts everything on the line in order to pursue their respective dreams. All players might not win titles despite being good enough to do so, but all players can win respect and the hearts of people watching them and make new fans for themselves and show their passion and dedication. I sometimes feel all of us have forgotten most of this.
the fact that so many things on this PR, especially Life and MMA, are being argued over means that it is generally controversial. the previous one with rain, flash and zest was okay-ish, and i guess you could say that it was generally 'correct'.
just like sos i predict life to fall off. the kinds of players that win a weekend tournament, for some reason, do not perform well over the long run in korea.
On November 13 2014 20:52 shadymmj wrote: the fact that so many things on this PR, especially Life and MMA, are being argued over means that it is generally controversial. the previous one with rain, flash and zest was okay-ish, and i guess you could say that it was generally 'correct'.
just like sos i predict life to fall off. the kinds of players that win a weekend tournament, for some reason, do not perform well over the long run in korea.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
But Zealously, Rain is actually the best player in the world, Artosis said so, and it's just not fair that WCS KR points don't count for more than winning the most stacked tournament of the year by beating arguably 3 of the top 5 players on the planet.
Are you really calling Blizzcon the most stacked tournament of the year?
With all of the GSL finalists from this year there? With Taeja (11 premier titles) there? Bomber fresh off a title? MMA ditto? Absolutely.
not quite. life only played 2 code S level players in Zest and Taeja. In order to win gsl , you will at least beat 4 of them. Winning gsl is still a lot harder than winning blizzcon
unless its a GSL with half of the top players being oversea, like this year. And Blizzcon was basically the tournament were those 2 divided regions that seldom played against each other really clashed, so Code S players could have proven that Code S actually meant they are the best. But it doesn't matter really, since there is a region lock next year. And GSL will be back in full.
"half the top players" , ok i am curious, who are these players you are speaking of?
Half is probably a bit to much, but I think his point is clear: For the last 2 years, GSL wasn't "complete" and shortly it will become complete again, which is something to get exited about.
On November 13 2014 20:52 shadymmj wrote: the fact that so many things on this PR, especially Life and MMA, are being argued over means that it is generally controversial. the previous one with rain, flash and zest was okay-ish, and i guess you could say that it was generally 'correct'.
just like sos i predict life to fall off. the kinds of players that win a weekend tournament, for some reason, do not perform well over the long run in korea.
On November 13 2014 07:14 Yonnua wrote: Why was Blizzcon weighted so heavily? There were only 6 WCS KR players at the tournament, so it's hardly representative of the highest levels of skill in the scene. Given that 4 of last months top 10 weren't even at the tournament, it just seems like a really contrived and unnecessary way to say Life is the best player in the world when he almost certainly isn't.
Same reason people count the Olympics as the most important event in so many sports even though you might find events with a higher level elsewhere. The tournament was so prestigious and so important to the players that they would pull no punches and spare no expenses to win their matches. Similar to The International for Dota2 and Worlds for LoL in that regard. Questioning the validity of the tournament's line-up after all three of this year's champions and the four-time finalist were all taken out by players either in Code B or not playing in the GSL seems more funky than anything.
But Zealously, Rain is actually the best player in the world, Artosis said so, and it's just not fair that WCS KR points don't count for more than winning the most stacked tournament of the year by beating arguably 3 of the top 5 players on the planet.
Are you really calling Blizzcon the most stacked tournament of the year?
With all of the GSL finalists from this year there? With Taeja (11 premier titles) there? Bomber fresh off a title? MMA ditto? Absolutely.
not quite. life only played 2 code S level players in Zest and Taeja. In order to win gsl , you will at least beat 4 of them. Winning gsl is still a lot harder than winning blizzcon
unless its a GSL with half of the top players being oversea, like this year. And Blizzcon was basically the tournament were those 2 divided regions that seldom played against each other really clashed, so Code S players could have proven that Code S actually meant they are the best. But it doesn't matter really, since there is a region lock next year. And GSL will be back in full.
"half the top players" , ok i am curious, who are these players you are speaking of?
Half is probably a bit to much, but I think his point is clear: For the last 2 years, GSL wasn't "complete" and shortly it will become complete again, which is something to get exited about.
Yeah there are certainly players who can compete in Code S, but not really anyone who would win it tbh (maybe taeja, but that is a big maybe considering he never won a gsl or even WCS event) So yeah, i am not sure if it will have that big of an impact tbh, at least for the playoff rounds.
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
On November 13 2014 20:44 marvellosity wrote: Putting Life at #1 does feel a little bit like putting Cilic at #1 for beating Federer at the US Open and going on to win it.
I can't quite bring myself to think that Life is a better player than Taeja/Zest overall, even if he was godly for Blizzcon.
I guess given the transitory nature of Power Ranks, I'll begrudgingly let Zealously have his moment. For now.
Terrible comparison. As there are 4 major Grand Slams.
Compare it to the World Series or Super Bowl or UEFA Champions League.
Are the Giants not the best team in Baseball for 2014? Are the Seahawks (from last year) not the best team in the NFL for 2013? Real Madrid is the best team from 2013-2014 UEFA.
I think this ranking is pretty well spot on. There are always going to be spots where you feel different in your personal view. I myself enjoy the power rankings and look forward to more.
I like how soO´s highest ever placement is rank 2 :D:D:D
BTW i strongly disagree with Life being number 1. The writer himself concluded that MMA probably is not that strong and neither is San. So Life went Rank 1 by beating Zest and cheesing the shit out of Taeja? If we judge power rank like this we could just take the placements at Blizzcon and translate them 1:1 to the power rank
On November 13 2014 20:20 ValM wrote: As an MMA fan I am proud of what he has achieved and how far he has come after being written off by everybody. No player in sc2 had fallen as hard as he did and has come back as strongly as has in a totally different era. Looking back there are almost no players of his time around except Bomber, DRG and probably Polt. And still he is there standing tall demolishing claims and proving his worth, while all we can do is scoff if he should be #6 or lower/higher.
MC? jjakji won GSL right after MMA. Also San - he was 2 times GSL semifinalists in 2011. Taeja was active even though he wasn't really present in top tier competition at the time. Obviously KeSPA players were playing Brood War at the time so it's a bit hard to say they were or weren't around at the time. Stardust and HyuN were KeSPA players and switched to SC2 only later on. Of the 16 players playing at BlizzCon only Life (and maybe TaeJa) really arrived after MMA. It's actually interesting that for 2014 in top 16 there are no really new players.
But true - MMA has fallen the most of all of them only to climb back. The problem is that in 2011 his style - between mech heavy Mvp and bio heavy MarineKing - was almost eclectic and deadly effective, he was able to almost literally tear opponent apart. MMA of today, even in championship contender form, is unable to reproduce such form.
On November 13 2014 21:55 catabowl wrote: Are the Giants not the best team in Baseball for 2014? Are the Seahawks (from last year) not the best team in the NFL for 2013? Real Madrid is the best team from 2013-2014 UEFA.
Real Madrid maybe won Champions League, but I wouldn't call them best in Europe
it's crazy how ppl still argue about some rankings, but one thing is sure though: Life is #1 and he truly deserves it who cares about the other rankings anyways, right?
Well the reason I think Life is #1 because even though Taeja, Bomber and whatnot won more tournaments this year, Life made more money winning Blizzcon, so his ability to win on the biggest stage under the brightest lights vaults him to the top of the Power Rankings and to #4 in SC2 earners.
Places MMA after #2 of WCS and #1 of WCS EU and winning vs GSL champion on "WCS Powerrank" #6. Especially lower than overrated Innovation and a Zest who was a total utter complete failure in WCS. Good job, Zealously!
Taeja at 2 feels sort of wrong to me. His stomping of soO was impressive but it just doesn't feel right...nobody besides Life and MMA (6? Really?) played well enough at Blizzcon to be placed over him though.
On November 14 2014 00:11 Caladan wrote: Places MMA after #2 of WCS and #1 of WCS EU and winning vs GSL champion on "WCS Powerrank" #6. Especially lower than overrated Innovation and a Zest who was a total utter complete failure in WCS. Good job, Zealously!
On November 14 2014 00:11 Caladan wrote: Places MMA after #2 of WCS and #1 of WCS EU and winning vs GSL champion on "WCS Powerrank" #6. Especially lower than overrated Innovation and a Zest who was a total utter complete failure in WCS. Good job, Zealously!
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Innovation had a week to prepare. About the same as the GSL ro8 and on wards. Soo had more than a month (give or take can't remember the exact length from the bracket being locked in and the ro16 being played) He didn't win the tournament but he beat both GSL finalists after both had an extended period of time to prepare.
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Innovation had a week to prepare. About the same as the GSL ro8 and on wards. Soo had more than a month (give or take can't remember the exact length from the bracket being locked in and the ro16 being played) He didn't win the tournament but he beat both GSL finalists after both had an extended period of time to prepare.
So? I don't see how that changes my point. I never said he will lose vs any good player as soon as you can prepare. But if you wanna win GSL you have to go through a lot of different opponents who prepare for you. He couldn't do that yet. Also the games vs Innovation, well... it doesn't really matter, next year we will have more answers
One thing is certain, this rank doesn't take consistency into consideration. Life comes from Code B, wins 4 games at Blizzcon and gets #1...easy-peasy.
The cool thing when you are a TL writer is that you can just insta-put your favorite player at the top of some "Ultimate Latest Edition Power-Rank: Only The Strong Will Survive!" as soon as he wins something. Thank goodness, Life is awesome, so I can't really disagree much, but where the fuck were the TL writers and the awesome Power Rank right after IGN ProLeague Season 4, which, you know, aLive won? :D
On November 14 2014 01:48 ZenithM wrote: The cool thing when you are a TL writer is that you can just insta-put your favorite player at the top of some "Ultimate Latest Edition Power-Rank: Only The Strong Will Survive!" as soon as he wins something. Thank goodness, Life is awesome, so I can't really disagree much, but where the fuck was the TL writers and the awesome Power Rank right after IGN ProLeague Season 4, which, you know, aLive won? :D
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Innovation had a week to prepare. About the same as the GSL ro8 and on wards. Soo had more than a month (give or take can't remember the exact length from the bracket being locked in and the ro16 being played) He didn't win the tournament but he beat both GSL finalists after both had an extended period of time to prepare.
So? I don't see how that changes my point. I never said he will lose vs any good player as soon as you can prepare. But if you wanna win GSL you have to go through a lot of different opponents who prepare for you. He couldn't do that yet. Also the games vs Innovation, well... it doesn't really matter, next year we will have more answers
Except Taeja hasn't been in GSL to actually try since HoTS came out and when he was he was consistently performing despite being having to battle against arguable the most imbalanced time in SC2. You can certainly argue that his lack of success in WCS AM is the same thing except almost all of his failures in WCS AM have been during the ro8 onwards where it is more like a weekend tournament again instead of a GSL style where you can prepare. Why does this whole he lacks a GSL title thing always come up with Taeja? GSLs are incredibly hard to win and there aren't exactly a lot of them making using them as a great indicator of a players strength less than ideal because one bad series and suddenly 1/3rd of the year is lost in terms of GSLs. Rain hasn't won a GSL. Innovation was the consensus best player in the world last year despite never winning. Soo hasn't won one either. Are those players suddenly of lesser quality because of this? Of course not. Is Sniper or roro suddenly a better player than them because they have won a GSL? Of course not. Consistent results are way better than just looking at one tournament and saying oh well you haven't won it so you consistently doing extremely well in it doesn't matter and consistently doing extremely well everywhere else doesn't matter.
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Taeja vs SoO and Taeja vs Inno were both preparation formats.
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Taeja vs SoO and Taeja vs Inno were both preparation formats.
I mean, technically he isn't wrong - Taeja didn't win the tournament. I agree that discrediting him because he didn't win it (it would imply that soO is also shit because he never wins preparation tourneys either) is stupid.
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Innovation had a week to prepare. About the same as the GSL ro8 and on wards. Soo had more than a month (give or take can't remember the exact length from the bracket being locked in and the ro16 being played) He didn't win the tournament but he beat both GSL finalists after both had an extended period of time to prepare.
So? I don't see how that changes my point. I never said he will lose vs any good player as soon as you can prepare. But if you wanna win GSL you have to go through a lot of different opponents who prepare for you. He couldn't do that yet. Also the games vs Innovation, well... it doesn't really matter, next year we will have more answers
Except Taeja hasn't been in GSL to actually try since HoTS came out and when he was he was consistently performing despite being having to battle against arguable the most imbalanced time in SC2. You can certainly argue that his lack of success in WCS AM is the same thing except almost all of his failures in WCS AM have been during the ro8 onwards where it is more like a weekend tournament again instead of a GSL style where you can prepare. Why does this whole he lacks a GSL title thing always come up with Taeja? GSLs are incredibly hard to win and there aren't exactly a lot of them making using them as a great indicator of a players strength less than ideal because one bad series and suddenly 1/3rd of the year is lost in terms of GSLs. Rain hasn't won a GSL. Innovation was the consensus best player in the world last year despite never winning. Soo hasn't won one either. Are those players suddenly of lesser quality because of this? Of course not. Is Sniper or roro suddenly a better player than them because they have won a GSL? Of course not. Consistent results are way better than just looking at one tournament and saying oh well you haven't won it so you consistently doing extremely well in it doesn't matter and consistently doing extremely well everywhere else doesn't matter.
I don't say it doesn't matter. I also don't say that one gsl win is worth more than what taeja does. But the fact that taeja never won a wcs tournament despite his countless other tournament might imply that he isn't suited for these tournaments. Basically i am just saying that i don't feel comfortable calling him the best terran in the world when he "only" wins weekend tournaments where a lot of hard opponents are missing or can't really prepare for him. That doesn't mean that his achievements aren't worth anything, my statement isn't that black and white I certainly think he is a top 3 terran for sure, at least most of the time^^
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Taeja vs SoO and Taeja vs Inno were both preparation formats.
I mean, technically he isn't wrong - Taeja didn't win the tournament. I agree that discrediting him because he didn't win it (it would imply that soO is also shit because he never wins preparation tourneys either) is stupid.
I don't discredit him, at least i don't want to. I just don't agree with people calling him the best terran in the world when all his achievements so far are pretty much in one style of tournament. Missing a lot of great players. People always mention he won like 11 tournaments or something like that, but a lot of these tournaments weren't THAT stacked tbh (even when he won vs one or two s class players in them, that isn't really enough in code s for example)
But then, for fairness, we must also turn the argument around. How well has Innovation done in the tournaments Taeja has dominated this year? How about Classic? If we want to put weight on being able to handle both, the GSL experts need to suit up and perform at weekend tournaments as well.
On November 14 2014 02:26 Zealously wrote: But then, for fairness, we must also turn the argument around. How well has Innovation done in the tournaments Taeja has dominated this year? How about Classic? If we want to put weight on being able to handle both, the GSL experts need to suit up and perform at weekend tournaments as well.
Edit: wrong player name
Yeah sure. These types of tournaments are just completely different, the best player should do well in both. It is just that people usually focus more on the korean tournaments cause of the competition.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
I don't think placing MMA at #6 for beating the players he did and getting absolutely crushed by Life is terribly biased. Would you rate him above soO or Zest after Blizzcon? For me, the answer was no - he impressed me, but not that much.
My reasoning is this: Up until the finals, MMA beat each of his opponents by a comfortable margin (3-1 each time), and his opponents weren't exactly walkovers - Bomber was pegged as a big contender, and Classic is no slouch either.
Secondly, MMA didn't exactly come out of nowhere for Blizzcon. He won 2 Premier tournaments (Dreamhack and WCS EU) in the months right before Blizzcon - overall he's had a very good fall.
I don't think that Life at #1 is wrong, but the reasoning is inconsistent - if Life can be #1 from one good tournament, why does MMA need 3 good showings and only gets #6?
Ultimately, ability is one thing, but accomplishments when it matters is also very important. soO and Zest FAILED at Blizzcon. When it came down to the wire, they came up short.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
I don't think placing MMA at #6 for beating the players he did and getting absolutely crushed by Life is terribly biased. Would you rate him above soO or Zest after Blizzcon? For me, the answer was no - he impressed me, but not that much.
My reasoning is this: Up until the finals, MMA beat each of his opponents by a comfortable margin (3-1 each time), and his opponents weren't exactly walkovers - Bomber was pegged as a big contender, and Classic is no slouch either.
Secondly, MMA didn't exactly come out of nowhere for Blizzcon. He won 2 Premier tournaments (Dreamhack and WCS EU) in the months right before Blizzcon - overall he's had a very good fall.
I don't think that Life at #1 is wrong, but the reasoning is inconsistent - if Life can be #1 from one good tournament, why does MMA need 3 good showings and only gets #6?
Ultimately, ability is one thing, but accomplishments when it matters is also very important. soO and Zest FAILED at Blizzcon. When it came down to the wire, they came up short.
It's fairly simple: because I think Life performed much better than MMA did. I covered this in MMA's section, but I have this nagging feeling that there were a lot of players that Blizzcon that could or should have taken him out. I definitely respect his run and it's one of his best recently, but the way he unceremoniously dropped to an on-form player (Life) makes me question whether or not he got to the finals simply by virtue of being better than his opponents, or if he was aided by his opponents collapsing or having a bad day.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
I don't think placing MMA at #6 for beating the players he did and getting absolutely crushed by Life is terribly biased. Would you rate him above soO or Zest after Blizzcon? For me, the answer was no - he impressed me, but not that much.
My reasoning is this: Up until the finals, MMA beat each of his opponents by a comfortable margin (3-1 each time), and his opponents weren't exactly walkovers - Bomber was pegged as a big contender, and Classic is no slouch either.
Secondly, MMA didn't exactly come out of nowhere for Blizzcon. He won 2 Premier tournaments (Dreamhack and WCS EU) in the months right before Blizzcon - overall he's had a very good fall.
I don't think that Life at #1 is wrong, but the reasoning is inconsistent - if Life can be #1 from one good tournament, why does MMA need 3 good showings and only gets #6?
Ultimately, ability is one thing, but accomplishments when it matters is also very important. soO and Zest FAILED at Blizzcon. When it came down to the wire, they came up short.
MMA had tough competition but who should be be above out of Taeja Innovation Soo Zest and Life? Those 5 only were beat by each other have more success outside of blizzcon. MMA is ahead of everyone he beat and while he did win 2 tournaments what big opponents did he beat there to put him ahead of one of those 5? The only one of those that doesn't have great success leading up to blizzcon is Life who beat MMA handily and won it all. The rest have better results than MMA still
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
I don't think placing MMA at #6 for beating the players he did and getting absolutely crushed by Life is terribly biased. Would you rate him above soO or Zest after Blizzcon? For me, the answer was no - he impressed me, but not that much.
My reasoning is this: Up until the finals, MMA beat each of his opponents by a comfortable margin (3-1 each time), and his opponents weren't exactly walkovers - Bomber was pegged as a big contender, and Classic is no slouch either.
Secondly, MMA didn't exactly come out of nowhere for Blizzcon. He won 2 Premier tournaments (Dreamhack and WCS EU) in the months right before Blizzcon - overall he's had a very good fall.
I don't think that Life at #1 is wrong, but the reasoning is inconsistent - if Life can be #1 from one good tournament, why does MMA need 3 good showings and only gets #6?
Ultimately, ability is one thing, but accomplishments when it matters is also very important. soO and Zest FAILED at Blizzcon. When it came down to the wire, they came up short.
It's fairly simple: because I think Life performed much better than MMA did. I covered this in MMA's section, but I have this nagging feeling that there were a lot of players that Blizzcon that could or should have taken him out. I definitely respect his run and it's one of his best recently, but the way he unceremoniously dropped to an on-form player (Life) makes me question whether or not he got to the finals simply by virtue of being better than his opponents, or if he was aided by his opponents collapsing or having a bad day.
Fair enough, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree haha
On November 13 2014 07:32 Greenei wrote: These power ranks seem so inconsistent. Sometimes the month performance doesn't seem to matter much more than consistency and sometimes it is enough to instantly catapult a player to rank 1. In the end the WCS finals only were 4 matches. If these ranks were made like the one where Rain won, Bomber should be much higher. He won RBBG and WCS America after all.
There's one consistency. Taeja is always higher ranked than he should be.
Taeja hasn't won anything since July but makes a Semi final here and gets ranked 2nd.
MMA hasn't done jack all for months either but comes 2nd at Blizzcon and gets ranked 6th
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Innovation had a week to prepare. About the same as the GSL ro8 and on wards. Soo had more than a month (give or take can't remember the exact length from the bracket being locked in and the ro16 being played) He didn't win the tournament but he beat both GSL finalists after both had an extended period of time to prepare.
So? I don't see how that changes my point. I never said he will lose vs any good player as soon as you can prepare. But if you wanna win GSL you have to go through a lot of different opponents who prepare for you. He couldn't do that yet. Also the games vs Innovation, well... it doesn't really matter, next year we will have more answers
Except Taeja hasn't been in GSL to actually try since HoTS came out and when he was he was consistently performing despite being having to battle against arguable the most imbalanced time in SC2. You can certainly argue that his lack of success in WCS AM is the same thing except almost all of his failures in WCS AM have been during the ro8 onwards where it is more like a weekend tournament again instead of a GSL style where you can prepare. Why does this whole he lacks a GSL title thing always come up with Taeja? GSLs are incredibly hard to win and there aren't exactly a lot of them making using them as a great indicator of a players strength less than ideal because one bad series and suddenly 1/3rd of the year is lost in terms of GSLs. Rain hasn't won a GSL. Innovation was the consensus best player in the world last year despite never winning. Soo hasn't won one either. Are those players suddenly of lesser quality because of this? Of course not. Is Sniper or roro suddenly a better player than them because they have won a GSL? Of course not. Consistent results are way better than just looking at one tournament and saying oh well you haven't won it so you consistently doing extremely well in it doesn't matter and consistently doing extremely well everywhere else doesn't matter.
I don't say it doesn't matter. I also don't say that one gsl win is worth more than what taeja does. But the fact that taeja never won a wcs tournament despite his countless other tournament might imply that he isn't suited for these tournaments. Basically i am just saying that i don't feel comfortable calling him the best terran in the world when he "only" wins weekend tournaments where a lot of hard opponents are missing or can't really prepare for him. That doesn't mean that his achievements aren't worth anything, my statement isn't that black and white I certainly think he is a top 3 terran for sure, at least most of the time^^
On November 13 2014 21:12 Zealously wrote: I wonder why we still dismiss Taeja when he beat last season's finalists in the same format as the GSL playoffs.
Cause he never won a tournament where you can prepare for your opponent? Taeja is a great player, one of the best the game has seen for sure, but he still lacks a GSL title (or even wcs one). Next year he will have the chance to win one (with the new spotv league even more than ever)
Taeja vs SoO and Taeja vs Inno were both preparation formats.
I mean, technically he isn't wrong - Taeja didn't win the tournament. I agree that discrediting him because he didn't win it (it would imply that soO is also shit because he never wins preparation tourneys either) is stupid.
I don't discredit him, at least i don't want to. I just don't agree with people calling him the best terran in the world when all his achievements so far are pretty much in one style of tournament. Missing a lot of great players. People always mention he won like 11 tournaments or something like that, but a lot of these tournaments weren't THAT stacked tbh (even when he won vs one or two s class players in them, that isn't really enough in code s for example)
Lets completely ignore tournament wins then and purely look at who he has beaten. Soo is overall probably the best zerg right now (regardless of life being #1 right now) Taeja 3-1ed him. Innovation just won the GSL. Taeja 3-1ed (before you say the delays are the only reason game 1 and 2 were played almost completely without delays and the series was 1-1 with taeja kind of throwing game 1, plus historically taeja has had innovations number hard. The head to head right now is like 11-5 in favor of Taeja. Then Zest the consensus best Toss taeja has beaten 3-0 and 2-1 in recent tournaments. So he has a winning record with convincing wins against basically the best of all 3 races from korea. If Taeja played in korea even with just ro8 and ro4 performances (just like he would get when he use to be in the GSL) he would be viewed as easily the best terran but because he is from WCS NA he is put to a higher standard.
On November 13 2014 07:25 Dodgin wrote: lol taeja gets 8 slots higher than bomber even though he lost in WCS AM as usual
joke
IT IS A POWER RANK!
The title of the goddamn list is the post-Blizzcon POWER RANK! He says in the beginning of the damn list that he weighted Blizzcon very heavily, why in the hell does the WCS AM tournament matter? It doesn't.
Geez, I feel like I'm the only nerd on this site that ever reads conventional sporting Power Ranks. The rest of you don't seem to have a clue of what they are.
He didn't weigh Blizzcon heavily - he only weighed it heavily when it suited him (Life #1, but MMA #6).
That's why this Power Ranking is clearly biased - there's no consistent methodology here.
I don't think placing MMA at #6 for beating the players he did and getting absolutely crushed by Life is terribly biased. Would you rate him above soO or Zest after Blizzcon? For me, the answer was no - he impressed me, but not that much.
My reasoning is this: Up until the finals, MMA beat each of his opponents by a comfortable margin (3-1 each time), and his opponents weren't exactly walkovers - Bomber was pegged as a big contender, and Classic is no slouch either.
Secondly, MMA didn't exactly come out of nowhere for Blizzcon. He won 2 Premier tournaments (Dreamhack and WCS EU) in the months right before Blizzcon - overall he's had a very good fall.
I don't think that Life at #1 is wrong, but the reasoning is inconsistent - if Life can be #1 from one good tournament, why does MMA need 3 good showings and only gets #6?
Ultimately, ability is one thing, but accomplishments when it matters is also very important. soO and Zest FAILED at Blizzcon. When it came down to the wire, they came up short.
It's fairly simple: because I think Life performed much better than MMA did. I covered this in MMA's section, but I have this nagging feeling that there were a lot of players that Blizzcon that could or should have taken him out. I definitely respect his run and it's one of his best recently, but the way he unceremoniously dropped to an on-form player (Life) makes me question whether or not he got to the finals simply by virtue of being better than his opponents, or if he was aided by his opponents collapsing or having a bad day.
On November 13 2014 08:21 Dwayn wrote: MMA doesn't belong in any top 10.
Get lost sir.
I just cannot believe the lack of respect in general for MMA despite his accomplishments against the so called Korea region or Kespa players even. I don't say he is the best player or anything ridiculous of that sort but this run of his is a huge accomplishment for any relevant player. If the list is weighed heavily on blizzcon results then what the hell are zest and soo doing up there?
I feel we are heavily confusing between who we think are solid/beastly players overall while looking at their play and who should be good or bad depending on their result in a particular tournamentwhich is blizzcon in this case.
As an MMA fan I am proud of what he has achieved and how far he has come after being written off by everybody. No player in sc2 had fallen as hard as he did and has come back as strongly as has in a totally different era. Looking back there are almost no players of his time around except Bomber, DRG and probably Polt. And still he is there standing tall demolishing claims and proving his worth, while all we can do is scoff if he should be #6 or lower/higher.
Are we just a bunch of fanboys grumbling because their player didn't win or didn't get enough recognition for it? Or we can look at the greater picture and respect everybody who puts everything on the line in order to pursue their respective dreams. All players might not win titles despite being good enough to do so, but all players can win respect and the hearts of people watching them and make new fans for themselves and show their passion and dedication. I sometimes feel all of us have forgotten most of this.
On November 13 2014 07:32 Greenei wrote: These power ranks seem so inconsistent. Sometimes the month performance doesn't seem to matter much more than consistency and sometimes it is enough to instantly catapult a player to rank 1. In the end the WCS finals only were 4 matches. If these ranks were made like the one where Rain won, Bomber should be much higher. He won RBBG and WCS America after all.
There's one consistency. Taeja is always higher ranked than he should be.
Taeja hasn't won anything since July but makes a Semi final here and gets ranked 2nd.
MMA hasn't done jack all for months either but comes 2nd at Blizzcon and gets ranked 6th
Team Liquid Power Rank logic in action.
Taeja also beat both finalists of the last GSL 3-1. There is more to a power ranking than just looking at how much you have won recently.
This is overall a good power ranking, MMA did absolutely not look super strong going into the finals, I don't know if people really watched the games (because the results tell a different story and frankly that story is kind of misleading).
That said ofcourse he did not look weak, a number 6 placement is still crazy high and he deserves it. And who knows what's in store for next year!
Just my opinion after watching Blizzcon :-)
I'm also very terran biased, because I love terran and always root for terran to win. Even through this It's still pretty obvious he is not better than the top 5.
On November 14 2014 04:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On November 13 2014 07:32 Greenei wrote: These power ranks seem so inconsistent. Sometimes the month performance doesn't seem to matter much more than consistency and sometimes it is enough to instantly catapult a player to rank 1. In the end the WCS finals only were 4 matches. If these ranks were made like the one where Rain won, Bomber should be much higher. He won RBBG and WCS America after all.
There's one consistency. Taeja is always higher ranked than he should be.
Taeja hasn't won anything since July but makes a Semi final here and gets ranked 2nd.
MMA hasn't done jack all for months either but comes 2nd at Blizzcon and gets ranked 6th
Team Liquid Power Rank logic in action.
Taeja also beat both finalists of the last GSL 3-1. There is more to a power ranking than just looking at how much you have won recently.
I don't disagree that he should be on it he just quite blatantly shouldn't second.
I am a bit sad for MMA getting only 6th place, although I am glad he is in the power rank. Life at #1 is fair. I am just sad that people still attribude MMAs astounding achievements to luck; especially his victory over Bomber was incredibly impressive, and he has won two big tournaments recently. It is not the low ranking on this list that hurts me, but rather the failure to recognize that you create your own luck. Otherwise I think this was a nice writeup, though you could have written something on herO at least... MMA will still rule the world I am sure !
On November 13 2014 07:32 Greenei wrote: These power ranks seem so inconsistent. Sometimes the month performance doesn't seem to matter much more than consistency and sometimes it is enough to instantly catapult a player to rank 1. In the end the WCS finals only were 4 matches. If these ranks were made like the one where Rain won, Bomber should be much higher. He won RBBG and WCS America after all.
On November 14 2014 04:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On November 13 2014 07:32 Greenei wrote: These power ranks seem so inconsistent. Sometimes the month performance doesn't seem to matter much more than consistency and sometimes it is enough to instantly catapult a player to rank 1. In the end the WCS finals only were 4 matches. If these ranks were made like the one where Rain won, Bomber should be much higher. He won RBBG and WCS America after all.
There's one consistency. Taeja is always higher ranked than he should be.
Taeja hasn't won anything since July but makes a Semi final here and gets ranked 2nd.
MMA hasn't done jack all for months either but comes 2nd at Blizzcon and gets ranked 6th
Team Liquid Power Rank logic in action.
Taeja also beat both finalists of the last GSL 3-1. There is more to a power ranking than just looking at how much you have won recently.
I don't disagree that he should be on it he just quite blatantly shouldn't second.
So who should be ahead of him? Soo? Oh wait he beat soo. Innovation? Oh wait he beat Innovation. Zest he beat Zest and Zest lost to life. MMA? He had a way easier road to the finals.
On November 13 2014 07:32 Greenei wrote: These power ranks seem so inconsistent. Sometimes the month performance doesn't seem to matter much more than consistency and sometimes it is enough to instantly catapult a player to rank 1. In the end the WCS finals only were 4 matches. If these ranks were made like the one where Rain won, Bomber should be much higher. He won RBBG and WCS America after all.
I agree so, so much!
I think I explained the reasoning behind this fairly thoroughly (both in the OP and in this thread). There is no more important tournament in th scene than the Global Finals, and players have the best conditions in terms of preparation and rest time to make sure they play the best they possibly could. I think it's reasonable (especially when I said so clearly in the article) to put the most weight on the tournament the players themselves do most to succeed in.
On November 13 2014 07:14 gneGne wrote: Cmon.. MMAs run was every bit as astounding as was Life's. You don't just end up in the finals on sheer luck.
MMA's run was about a 10th as impressive as Life's.
Bomber had these guys on his side of the bracket: Bomber, Jaedong, Stardust, MC, herO, Polt, Classic. Bomber and Classic are genuine stars, arguably Polt as well. MMA had to beat Bomber and Classic, which absolutely impressive.
Life had these monsters on his side of the bracket: San, jjakji, Zest, Taeja, soO, INnoVation, HyuN. Zest, Taeja, soO and INnoVation aren't starts - they're super-stars. The three best players from GSL plus Taeja, the most successful weekend warrior in SC2. Life beat Zest, which seemed impossible. Then he beat San who whilst not up to the callibre of those four I mentioned earlier, is at least close to the level of Bomber, Classic and Polt. Then he beat Taeja (who was white-hot and took out soO and Bogus). Then he stomped MMA without ever looking even slightly troubled.
On November 14 2014 05:49 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On November 14 2014 05:08 bourne117 wrote:
On November 14 2014 04:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On November 13 2014 07:32 Greenei wrote: These power ranks seem so inconsistent. Sometimes the month performance doesn't seem to matter much more than consistency and sometimes it is enough to instantly catapult a player to rank 1. In the end the WCS finals only were 4 matches. If these ranks were made like the one where Rain won, Bomber should be much higher. He won RBBG and WCS America after all.
There's one consistency. Taeja is always higher ranked than he should be.
Taeja hasn't won anything since July but makes a Semi final here and gets ranked 2nd.
MMA hasn't done jack all for months either but comes 2nd at Blizzcon and gets ranked 6th
Team Liquid Power Rank logic in action.
Taeja also beat both finalists of the last GSL 3-1. There is more to a power ranking than just looking at how much you have won recently.
I don't disagree that he should be on it he just quite blatantly shouldn't second.
So who should be ahead of him? Soo? Oh wait he beat soo. Innovation? Oh wait he beat Innovation. Zest he beat Zest and Zest lost to life. MMA? He had a way easier road to the finals.
this head to head logic would have been nice last year when dear deserved to be ranked above taeja.
I love Power ranks, makes for lenghty discussions about why they're wrong.
IMO this is a decent ranking, I love MMA but I wouldn't put him higher without confirmation that he's really back at that "really good" level of play (though he definitely seems on the way to it).
Tajea #2 doesn't shock me as well, the guy is insanely good, and losing to Life the way he did doesn't suddenly make him a joke or unworthy of a top 4.
Life #1, well, I think it's debatable, but this month, he's obvioulsy top 3, just for beating Taeja (who itself beat soO, which gives tons of credit to Life) and Zest when it mattered.
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote: I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day.
This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote: I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
Considering we have comments saying MMA shouldn't be on the list (like this one), and comments saying he should be as high as #2 or #1, I think #6 is a fair compromise
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote: I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day.
This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition. The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote: I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day.
This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition. The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high.
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote: I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day.
This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition. The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high.
Why do people think Zest and Soo played badly? They played Taeja and Life who were simply just playing even better. If they were on the other side of the bracket I GUARANTEE one of them would be in the finals and would have only lost to each other. The bracket was just unfairly stacked on one side.
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote: I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day.
This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition. The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high.
Why do people think Zest and Soo played badly? They played Taeja and Life who were simply just playing even better. If they were on the other side of the bracket I GUARANTEE one of them would be in the finals and would have only lost to each other. The bracket was just unfairly stacked on one side.
If you wouldve seen soO playing in GSL before Finals, he was almost unstoppable, he couldve beaten Taeja easily in that form, Taeja was playing great and one of the best Terrans but he would ve not won so easily 3-1 vs soO in form. Zest played great, and Life aswell, but that was definetely not Zest, who beat Kespa Cup. I am not saying they played bad directly, I am saying they played not so good as they used to be, mostly soO. But its my opinion.
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote: I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day.
This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition. The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high.
Why do people think Zest and Soo played badly? They played Taeja and Life who were simply just playing even better. If they were on the other side of the bracket I GUARANTEE one of them would be in the finals and would have only lost to each other. The bracket was just unfairly stacked on one side.
If you wouldve seen soO playing in GSL before Finals, he was almost unstoppable, he couldve beaten Taeja easily in that form, Taeja was playing great and one of the best Terrans but he would ve not won so easily 3-1 vs soO in form. Zest played great, and Life aswell, but that was definetely not Zest, who beat Kespa Cup. I am not saying they played bad directly, I am saying they played not so good as they used to be, mostly soO. But its my opinion.
What? SoO played just as well against Taeja than against Flash, he played almost flawlessly except that he kept attacking off creep and Taeja didn't let SoO fight him on creep.
MMA only beat Bomber because he was clearly off that day, MMA wouldn't stand a chance against most Kespa players.
Having attended Blizzcon (ok, just the $30 WCS seats ), I can say two things:
1. Innovation got royally screwed by the delays. He actually looked physically sick in his booth. I actually left halfway through the series because I was so fed up with the delays (throughout the entire day). Innovation was broken at the start of the series. The power rank said it perfectly.
2. Watching Life vs Taeja was incredible. I've never felt more energy at an SC tournament than when Life won game 5; truly awesome! Once Life made it passed Taeja, we all knew MMA wouldn't stand a chance. A very well deserved victory indeed.
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote: I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day.
This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition. The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high.
Why do people think Zest and Soo played badly? They played Taeja and Life who were simply just playing even better. If they were on the other side of the bracket I GUARANTEE one of them would be in the finals and would have only lost to each other. The bracket was just unfairly stacked on one side.
If you wouldve seen soO playing in GSL before Finals, he was almost unstoppable, he couldve beaten Taeja easily in that form, Taeja was playing great and one of the best Terrans but he would ve not won so easily 3-1 vs soO in form. Zest played great, and Life aswell, but that was definetely not Zest, who beat Kespa Cup. I am not saying they played bad directly, I am saying they played not so good as they used to be, mostly soO. But its my opinion.
What? SoO played just as well against Taeja than against Flash, he played almost flawlessly except that he kept attacking off creep and Taeja didn't let SoO fight him on creep.
MMA only beat Bomber because he was clearly off that day, MMA wouldn't stand a chance against most Kespa players.
eh this "Kespa player" thing is misleading because it implies all the kespa teams are even right now. The top players right now are mostly from SKT and KT and a few are "foreign" Koreans like Taeja and Bomber. The other Kespa teams have successful players from time to time like Cure, sOs, Life, but SKT and KT are above the other Kespa teams right now.
so yeah, MMA would probably beat most Prime players, or maybe Samsung if you want to get really technical and only look at old Kespa.
The discrepancy between MMA's, Life's, and Taeja's rank (which has been explained and makes perfect sense) highlights an issue I see with this power ranking.
What's its goal? Is it merely to assess the latest statistics, serve as an aggregate across several months of tournaments and tie the resulting numbers up with a personalized bow? Or is it to have predictive power, to analyze the content of games and say "this player might have won the entire tournament, but he used cheesy units to do it which are getting nerfed in the next patch, and he's going to disappear and everyone will forget about him the moment that happens"? How much should the rank favor long-term trends outside of its own 1-2 month window?
It's hard to imagine that any player not named Zest would have even made the top 10, never mind gotten #4, with his results from October and November (to wit: wins against Classic and PiG, an even 1-1 versus Trap, and losses against Life, Solar, Rain, and Sora... an extraordinarily mediocre month and a half). So from this we conclude that past results do matter. But that does nothing to explain the conspicuous absence of Maru from September's power rank, when the fact that he was the only Korean Terran who mattered for nearly a year should have awarded him months and months of leeway. MMA getting sixth, and the long explanation that accompanies this "low" spot on the rank, suggests that recent results are weighed very, very heavily -- no predictive analyst would look at Blizzcon and conclude that MMA is a top 6 player going into 2015 s1 Code A, much less Code S. But Taeja and INnoVation getting higher spots than MMA suggests the opposite, that in fact context matters and the unambiguous non-flukeyeness of their success is reason to expect great things in the future.
That and the OP's "The Power Rank takes into account both results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat" suggests this power ranking wants to be everything at the same time. Reward some long-term trends, make sure the recent champions are all represented regardless of how they played, have some predictive power but don't focus on that exclusively... it's a hodgepodge. I'm not saying this because I have a better solution, I'm just offering it up as an explanation of why some people come away dissatisfied. There is no single consistent goal, and the top 10 reflects that.
My power rank probably wouldn't be any better (even by my own measure). It might not even be that different. This is just food for thought. I enjoy reading these, and agree in spirit with keeping Zest on, placing MMA as low as is reasonably possible, and taking INnoVation's ro8 defeat in stride because that day was just absurd.
On November 15 2014 23:59 meenamjah wrote: Blizzcon is a bit of a joke of a tournament. Not even close to the top competition. That's sad, really.
It's so low-tier that all of this year's GSL champions lost before the finals. If only they cared about the $100.000 pay check they might have played seriously!
On November 15 2014 23:59 meenamjah wrote: Blizzcon is a bit of a joke of a tournament. Not even close to the top competition. That's sad, really.
It's so low-tier that all of this year's GSL champions lost before the finals. If only they cared about the $100.000 pay check they might have played seriously!
Because this tournament doesn't have a loser's bracket, there's going to be a good deal more variance in the results. So I think too much weight was placed on Blizzcon results in these rankings.
Also, did you do the ranking? Do you really think that Life is the best player overall at the moment? I realize he won blizzcon and that should count for a lot, but Life is here instead of someone like Soulkey because he gets sent to foreign tournaments, not because he's the best Zerg in Korea.
Also putting someone like MMA in this ranking is a bit absurd. If he were playing solely in Korea what odds would you give him of making it to Blizzcon -- 1 in 20, 1 in 50?
Taeja is very good but again, he benefits so much from participating in foreign tournaments that it's hard to say exactly how good he is. Power rank should be split into two rankings -- one for Korean-Koreans and one for everyone else.
On November 15 2014 23:59 meenamjah wrote: Blizzcon is a bit of a joke of a tournament. Not even close to the top competition. That's sad, really.
It's so low-tier that all of this year's GSL champions lost before the finals. If only they cared about the $100.000 pay check they might have played seriously!
Because this tournament doesn't have a loser's bracket, there's going to be a good deal more variance in the results. So I think too much weight was placed on Blizzcon results in these rankings.
Also, did you do the ranking? Do you really think that Life is the best player overall at the moment? I realize he won blizzcon and that should count for a lot, but Life is here instead of someone like Soulkey because he gets sent to foreign tournaments, not because he's the best Zerg in Korea.
Also putting someone like MMA in this ranking is a bit absurd. If he were playing solely in Korea what odds would you give him of making it to Blizzcon -- 1 in 20, 1 in 50?
Taeja is very good but again, he benefits so much from participating in foreign tournaments that it's hard to say exactly how good he is. Power rank should be split into two rankings -- one for Korean-Koreans and one for everyone else.
Actually it's fairly simple - TaeJa is extremely/godly good. But GSL format does not serve him well, he definitely is stronger in weekend tournaments. So I'd say it's easier for him to play to his advantage rather than to his opponents weakness.
At BlizzCon MMA did beat Classic, reigning WCS AM champion and previous WCS EU champion. While it's hard also for me to believe it, MMA is back to being very strong player - just not the one we knew at the end of 2011.
I agree with Life assessment - I just don't know what Soulkey is doing there :O
I'd like more consistency in the ranking. A three month rolling average would be nice. The write-ups come across as "try-hard" instead of letting the players work speak for itself.
Lines like this "The Liquid Terran is a monster in tournaments where instincts, composure and mechanics play a larger role than preparation. He excels in turning chaos into his order" make E-sports seem childish and not serious. "Chaos into order?"
Can you imagine this being said about Tiger woods, Michael Jordan or Peyton Manning? No. They're not gods or mythical legends, they're human beings who play sports exceptionally well. These guys work their asses off to be the best, yes they have crazy amounts of talent but their attitudes is what makes them the best.
More talk of Life re-dedicating himself to the game and now seeing that commitment pay-off would be both more realistic and helpful to aspiring gamers and fans than comic book, over the top language.